Dont dis the big Mo

ch750536

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1214666/Christian-hotel-owners-hauled-court-defending-beliefs-discussion-Muslim-guest.html

'A Christian couple have been charged with a criminal offence after taking part in what they regarded as a reasonable discussion about religion with guests at their hotel.
Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang were arrested after a Muslim woman complained to police that she had been offended by their comments.
They have been charged under public order laws with using ‘threatening, abusive or insulting words’ that were ‘religiously aggravated’.

Coming to a politically correct country near you.

mikom

The politically correct crowd can suck my Richard.

captainspeckle

jesus christ, what is the world coming to?



oh.. did i say too much?

Stercus Accidit

I thought it happened in the middle east somewhere when I read the title but Britain?


Freedom of speech ffs, mohamed was a batty boy and polished all the other boys knobs, and don't get me started on that fairy jesus.

major bill

:mad: worlds gone mad, serioulsy britain is destroyed by this, stuff like this justifys the BNP and EDL!!!

Long Onion

Battle of the bigots would be a better headline.

If you can't keep your "committed christian" beliefs to yourself and not argue with your customers, then you have fcuk all right to run a hotel. So you two can take your "Christian Institute" defence team and go p1ss up a rope.

Conversely, if you really believe that no-one is entitled to comment on your chauvinistic fundamentalist religion and that if they do it represents an attack on your culture, then you can take your Enid Blighton type PC assholes and fcuk off to somewhere no-body can hear you.

Fcukin religion, I ask ya - it's probably all sh1te so why can't we just enjoy ourselves instead?

ch750536

Was at a birthday party last night, about 8 people there.

If it were policed like this there would have been at least 12 of us arrested.

Kintarō Hattori

Long Onion wrote: »

Fcukin religion, I ask ya - it's probably all sh1te so why can't we just enjoy ourselves instead?

Fantastic. It really is responsible for so much crap.

major bill

ch750536 wrote: »

Was at a birthday party last night, about 8 people there.

If it were policed like this there would have been at least 12 of us arrested.

iranian joke?

ch750536

Long Onion wrote: »

Battle of the bigots would be a better headline.

If you can't keep your "committed christian" beliefs to yourself and not argue with your customers, then you have fcuk all right to run a hotel. So you two can take your "Christian Institute" defence team and go p1ss up a rope.

Conversely, if you really believe that no-one is entitled to comment on your chauvinistic fundamentalist religion and that if they do it represents an attack on your culture, then you can take your Enid Blighton type PC assholes and fcuk off to somewhere no-body can hear you.

Fcukin religion, I ask ya - it's probably all sh1te so why can't we just enjoy ourselves instead?

Competely disagree with this. You have a right to voice your opinion. You have a right to say 'wasn't Mo that warlord who sold kids to slavery'

You also have a right to respond if you wish.

You have the right to move to another hotel.

You should not have the right to cause an investigation and arrest, then court hearing based on someone elses opinion where you are personally not discussed.

This works both ways. If someone says 'Jesus didn't exist stop being a fool' I should not beable to have them arrested.

Poor Uncle Tom

Long Onion wrote: »

Battle of the bigots would be a better headline.

If you can't keep your "committed christian" beliefs to yourself and not argue with your customers, then you have fcuk all right to run a hotel. So you two can take your "Christian Institute" defence team and go p1ss up a rope.

Conversely, if you really believe that no-one is entitled to comment on your chauvinistic fundamentalist religion and that if they do it represents an attack on your culture, then you can take your Enid Blighton type PC assholes and fcuk off to somewhere no-body can hear you.

Fcukin religion, I ask ya - it's probably all sh1te so why can't we just enjoy ourselves instead?

Don't hold back, tell us what you really mean.....

asdasd

If you can't keep your "committed christian" beliefs to yourself and not argue with your customers, then you have fcuk all right to run a hotel. So you two can take your "Christian Institute" defence team and go p1ss up a rope.

I wonder if they had committed atheistic views which upset the muslims would you be so inclined to dismiss their right to free speech.

Wazdakka

What gets me is how the police were called.. And acted.. because somebody said they're religious beliefs were insulted in a discussion..

Can you ring the police and expect them to charge someone for saying that they think the football team you support is crap???

SV

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGHGGGGGGGGGGGGH

this is so bloody frustrating.
between christians and muslims..fúcking..fúcks.

stovelid

major bill wrote: »

serioulsy britain is destroyed by this, stuff like this justifys the BNP and EDL!!!

No it doesn't.

A barney between fanatical Christians and Muslims. It's like a cup final between two teams you despise.

Fratton Fred

hang on a sec, i'm confused.

on Friday the Mail wrote something about a dead gay singer and the newspaper was the scum of the earth.

Now it is having a pop at Muslims it is OK?

asdasd

This mis-understanding of free speech runs through the discourse. The vile Yasmin Alibhai-Brown was arguing that we dont like free speech because of the way people reacted to Jan Moir, but that is whats called debate not an abridgement of free speech.

pablomakaveli

Long Onion wrote: »

Battle of the bigots would be a better headline.

If you can't keep your "committed christian" beliefs to yourself and not argue with your customers, then you have fcuk all right to run a hotel. So you two can take your "Christian Institute" defence team and go p1ss up a rope.

Conversely, if you really believe that no-one is entitled to comment on your chauvinistic fundamentalist religion and that if they do it represents an attack on your culture, then you can take your Enid Blighton type PC assholes and fcuk off to somewhere no-body can hear you.

Fcukin religion, I ask ya - it's probably all sh1te so why can't we just enjoy ourselves instead?

You're not much different to those you claim to hate. Atheism is just another religion with it's devout followers and hatred of other religions.

SV

Fratton Fred wrote: »

hang on a sec, i'm confused.

on Friday the Mail wrote something about a dead gay singer and the newspaper was the scum of the earth.

Now it is having a pop at Muslims it is OK?

I don't think anyone said the paper was ok.

Slow Motion

Why is anyone here surprised? This kind of religious bull**** has been going on for long enough now! Just another day in pinko liberal PC fairy land. Ohhh I said fairy, there going to stone me know.


Jehova! Jehova! Jehova! Jehova!Jihad..........

wes

major bill wrote: »

:mad: worlds gone mad, serioulsy britain is destroyed by this, stuff like this justifys the BNP and EDL!!!

The irony of what your saying is that ilk you defend here, would virtually elminate free speech, for anyone but themselves.

asdasd

Atheism is just another religion with it's devout followers and hatred of other religions.

Quite. Commited atheistic couple run Hotel and annoy fundamental Christians who call police. A totally different reaction from our atheistic friends, n'est pas?

EDIT: Not that I am a believer.

I think we should deplore people who push their views on others, but not arrest them.

Long Onion

ch750536 wrote: »

Competely disagree with this. You have a right to voice your opinion. You have a right to say 'wasn't Mo that warlord who sold kids to slavery'

You also have a right to respond if you wish.

You have the right to move to another hotel.

You should not have the right to cause an investigation and arrest, then court hearing based on someone elses opinion where you are personally not discussed.

This works both ways. If someone says 'Jesus didn't exist stop being a fool' I should not beable to have them arrested.

You should indeed have the right to say this - that is why the pc muslim can fcuk off too, just don't expect paying guests at your hotel to listen to it - if you can't keep personal opinions to yourself, don't run a public hostelry.

asdasd wrote: »

I wonder if they had committed atheistic views which upset the muslims would you be so inclined to dismiss their right to free speech.

Yes, I would actually - like I said, don't run a hotel.

Stercus Accidit

pablomakaveli wrote: »

You're not much different to those you claim to hate. Atheism is just another religion with it's devout followers and hatred of other religions.

Thats a stupid opinion.

Atheism is neither organised nor intrusive, I'm an atheist, I hate the influence and damage religion has caused(not the beliefs themselves), but I'm not a follower of some ideals layed out in stone by someone else.

Pure rhetoric this putting atheism into the superstitious nonsense camp.

K-Ren

'' It is understood that they suggested that Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was a warlord and that traditional Muslim dress for women was a form of bondage.''

What I find scary is that people are so quick to forget the attitude of Catholic Church towards women's rights a only 50 years ago- arguments on the subject of religious extremism are always so pithy, every religion is extremist.

Long Onion

pablomakaveli wrote: »

You're not much different to those you claim to hate. Atheism is just another religion with it's devout followers and hatred of other religions.

Did I say I was athiest?

pablomakaveli

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Thats a stupid opinion.

Atheism is neither organised nor intrusive, I'm an atheist, I hate the influence and damage religion has caused(not the beliefs themselves), but I'm not a follower of some ideals layed out in stone by someone else.

Pure rhetoric this putting atheism into the superstitious nonsense camp.

Atheism is becoming more organized though. Largely due to the likes of Dawkins. I've often heard atheists say religion should be gotten rid of which would effectively mean making people believe what they believe. That not being too different to the extremist muslim or christian who wants everyone to believe what they believe.


What annoys me the most is how atheists assume they are better than others because of what they believe. Atheism is potentially as dangerous as any other religion. How long beofre we have a commited atheist deciding to burn a church or attack a religious person. It may seem prepostorous to many but i believe it will happen at some stage.

Now for the record i'm not religious and don't hate people based on what they believe in (God or no-God). But when i hear people saying i believe/don't believe in X and anyone who disagrees is stupid it pisses me off.

pablomakaveli

Long Onion wrote: »

Did I say I was athiest?

I reckon so. The "****ing religion"statement seems to say so.

TheZohanS

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Atheism is becoming more organized though. Largely due to the likes of Dawkins. I've often heard atheists say religion should be gotten rid of which would effectively mean making people believe what they believe. That not being too different to the extremist muslim or christian who wants everyone to believe what they believe.


What annoys me the most is how atheists assume they are better than others because of what they believe. Atheism is potentially as dangerous as any other religion. How long beofre we have a commited atheist deciding to burn a church or attack a religious person. It may seem prepostorous to many but i believe it will happen at some stage.

Now for the record i'm not religious and don't hate people based on what they believe in (God or no-God). But when i hear people saying i believe/don't believe in X and anyone who disagrees is stupid it pisses me off.

You are confusing athiesm with anti-theism.

Atheism is the absence of belief, anti-theism is being against other beliefs.

asdasd

What I find scary is that people are so quick to forget the attitude of Catholic Church towards women's rights a only 50 years ago- arguments on the subject of religious extremism are always so pithy, every religion is extremist.

Thats a argument of Tu QuoQue, is irrelevent to the discussion at hand, and is out of date, and wrong ( I doubt that anybody has "forgotten" anything about the Catholic Church which is, actually, more of a whipping boy than Islam in the UK as it can get it in the neck from The Guardian or The Times), and even if it were true it wouldnt be scary.

So possibly one of the worst arguments ever.

AnonoBoy

I know how that couple feel.

One time I was in the supermarket with the ex-wife and she was going on about dinner and I said "Well let's not have pasta. I flippin' well hate spaghetti."

Next thing I knew these bastards tried to sue me: http://www.venganza.org/

:mad:

Long Onion

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I reckon so. The "****ing religion"statement seems to say so.

So, anyone who doesn't like religion is an athiest?

LD 50

The hotel owners should have known better than to start talking about religion in their own hotel with customers.

Serves them right the stuck up over-zeaolous *****

Cianos

TheZohan wrote: »

You are confusing athiesm with anti-theism.

Atheism is the absence of belief, anti-theism is being against other beliefs.

And I'd say a lot of atheists could also be called anti-theist whether they are aware of the difference in definitions or not.

pablomakaveli

TheZohan wrote: »

You are confusing athiesm with anti-theism.

Atheism is the absence of belief, anti-theism is being against other beliefs.

Can a person not be atheist and anti-theist at the same time? For example you could have a person who is athiest but feels that religion is having a negative impact in the world and feels it should be gotten rid of.

pablomakaveli

Long Onion wrote: »

So, anyone who doesn't like religion is an athiest?

No it would seem you're anti-theist as The Zohan pointed out above.

Long Onion

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Can a person not be atheist and anti-theist at the same time? For example you could have a person who is athiest but feels that religion is having a negative impact in the world and feels it should be gotten rid of.

Surely, feeling that all religion must be done away with is a belief in itself?

speedboatchase

I'm an Atheist but I thinkt most anti-religious people and people on the Boards Atheist boards are smug, annoying attention-seekers. I don't join any kind of organised community because I have no interest whatsoever in religion, unless its harming my rights or state-supported.

This article sounds like absolute nonsense but it will be interesting to hear what the exact words used were that caused offence. I always worry a bit about these cases because it's so easy for one judge to set a dangerous precedent

TheZohanS

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Can a person not be atheist and anti-theist at the same time? For example you could have a person who is athiest but feels that religion is having a negative impact in the world and feels it should be gotten rid of.

They can of course, but not all athiests are anti-theists so to say that athiests are against religion would be incorrect.

It's like assuming that all Christians are Catholic.

K-Ren

asdasd wrote: »

Thats a argument of Tu QuoQue, is irrelevent to the discussion at hand, and is out of date, and wrong ( I doubt that anybody has "forgotten" anything about the Catholic Church which is, actually, more of a whipping boy than Islam in the UK as it can get it in the neck from The Guardian or The Times), and even if it were true it wouldnt be scary.

So possibly one of the worst arguments ever.

Hey man, I'll have you sent to jail for offending me and persecuting my beliefs!

pablomakaveli

Long Onion wrote: »

Surely, feeling that all religion must be done away with is a belief in itself?

It's not a religious belief in itself though. Atheism is the lack of religious beliefs. Wanting to do away with religions themselves is not really a religious belief.

pablomakaveli

speedboatchase wrote: »

I'm an Atheist but I thinkt most anti-religious people and people on the Boards Atheist boards are smug, annoying attention-seekers. I don't join any kind of organised community because I have no interest whatsoever in religion, unless its harming my rights or state-supported.

Well put. I've no problem with people who are atheist but rather people who act smug and superior because they are atheists.

milod

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Atheism is becoming more organized though. Largely due to the likes of Dawkins. I've often heard atheists say religion should be gotten rid of which would effectively mean making people believe what they believe. That not being too different to the extremist muslim or christian who wants everyone to believe what they believe.

Someone wise once said that organising atheists is like trying to herd cats. You don't seriously believe that Dawkins et al are going to issue fatwahs, or start murdering doctors that perform abortions do you?

You can't equate rationalism (or an absence of belief) with belonging to a sect that worships supernatural entities. Nor can you equate the actions of those two groups in defence of their beliefs. Atheists don't believe in the supernatural, but we do sometimes believe that we need to curtail the damaging and irrational acts performed in the pursuance of supernatural worship. But that's just a desire to promote a responsible stewardship of the world we all share - no matter who claims they created it.