Shooters!!

o1s1n

Something I noticed about this forum is shooters don't get enough love. Which is a shame as the majority of them require more skill than your average game.

So in a bid to kick off some shooter discussion, I'm going to pose a question to you which I have a lot of difficulty answering myself - Vertical or Horizontal? (Lets just forget isometric even exists for the moment!)

Although some of my favourite shooters are horizontal - Blazing Star, Pulsar, Thunderforce IV, R-Type, Super Fantasy Zone, Gradius, Gleylancer to name but a few, I'm going to have to go with vertical on this one. Especially with a vertical monitor (Drool). Raiden 2 on a vertical monitor cabinet is just the ultimate.

Very close call though. Maybe even almost impossible to choose.

Tallon

I can't decide.. It depends on my mood. I do love my rotatable monitor though

o1s1n

Tallon wrote: »

I do love my rotatable monitor though

Ahh! you jammy git I really want to buy a Raiden PCB but would have to turn my TV sideways. Cab monitor is fixed horizontal.

Retr0gamer

I can't really decide either. If it's a good game I'll play it. I hate bullet hell games and they are usually vertical but love how a horizontal view gives games a more cinematic feeling like in R-type, Eingander and G-Darius. Most of my favourite shooters are vertical but then again I can't forget how amazing Radiant Silvergun, Soukyugurentai and Ikaruga are.

Tallon

o1s1n wrote: »

Cab monitor is fixed horizontal.

That is the draw back, I can imagine you getting locked one night and lying it down on the kitchen table just to play it

Dark Savior

I went for horizontal but it's a tough choice.What swung it for me was my love of the R-Type series.Every so often I boot it up via mame just to kill the level three boss .A game like Salamander has a bit of both type's to keep everyone hsppy.

animaX

I think i prefer vertical. I've been playing Espgaluda on ps2 lately and it is amazing. And of course, Radiant Silvergun and ikaruga as retr0 mentioned.

Although I have also been playing gradius 5 on his recommendation and it too is great!

Also, for those of you who have not experienced it, there is an FBA emulator on psp which runs vertical shooters amazingly well (Esprade, Dodonpachi, Guwange). You turn the psp sideways and it looks great. Worth checking it out if you like shooters

o1s1n

animaX wrote: »

Also, for those of you who have not experienced it, there is an FBA emulator on psp which runs vertical shooters amazingly well (Esprade, Dodonpachi, Guwange). You turn the psp sideways and it looks great. Worth checking it out if you like shooters

I think I love you. :pac:

animaX

o1s1n wrote: »

I think I love you. :pac:

Prepare to love your psp a lot more

Tallon

animaX wrote: »

Prepare to love your psp a lot more

I think im IN love with you

animaX

Tallon wrote: »

I think im IN love with you

oh...eh.....hmmmm...I do like you as a friend but....:pac:

LoGiE

Thats enough love thanks very much!
Hmm... R-type, Mars Matrix, Thunderforce.... I couldn't possibly say. :pac:

CCCP^

I played some 1945 II on the PS2 in honour of this thread.

animaX

LoGiE wrote: »

Mars Matrix

Forgot to mention, this is also fully playable on the psp! With the neo geo emulator. Amazing

o1s1n

Mars Matrix is a CPS2 game!

I've been playing it a lot on a PSP CPS2 emulator. Works great alright.

Can't get Final Burn Alpha to work though the games appear but none of them load. Donpachi creates a 0kb sized cache file. Tried several different versions of the emulator but no joy with any. gr! Was really looking forward to that!

animaX

o1s1n wrote: »

Mars Matrix is a CPS2 game!

I've been playing it a lot on a PSP CPS2 emulator. Works great alright.

Can't get Final Burn Alpha to work though the games appear but none of them load. Donpachi creates a 0kb sized cache file. Tried several different versions of the emulator but no joy with any. gr! Was really looking forward to that!

Yeah sorry, I meant CPS2. As for FBA, you should try an older (more stable) version of the emu. I found that the newer ones didn't work either but there is an earlier version that works great. Also, you might need to have a psp slim since it has extra ram

o1s1n

Yeah I read that some of the newer games won't run on the phat. Donpatchi should though. Just want the novelty of turning the PSP sideways really. One game working will do!

Was thinking about rotating the 32inch tv sideways for the craic and connecting it up to a modded xbox. I think mame on that supports rotation.

Retr0gamer

o1s1n wrote: »

Yeah I read that some of the newer games won't run on the phat. Donpatchi should though. Just want the novelty of turning the PSP sideways really. One game working will do!

Was thinking about rotating the 32inch tv sideways for the craic and connecting it up to a modded xbox. I think mame on that supports rotation.

Don't. I ruined a perfectly good monitor doing that. It's the quickest way to ruin a TV. You'll get a nasty purple hue creeping up from one side of the screen after a while.

One method of doing it is to just get an LCD monitor, the dell one I have can be rotated on the stand into a vertical postion.

sham69

I have a soft spot for halleys comet and truxton...

o1s1n

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Don't. I ruined a perfectly good monitor doing that. It's the quickest way to ruin a TV. You'll get a nasty purple hue creeping up from one side of the screen after a while.

One method of doing it is to just get an LCD monitor, the dell one I have can be rotated on the stand into a vertical postion.

Oh wait, do you mean you ruined a CRT tv doing that? I forgot to mention it's a 32 inch LCD tv. I would imagine it would be okay to rotate similarly to rotating ad LCD monitor? Must look into that before trying it.

komodosp

Are we just talking about flying shooters here? Have to say horizontal with the likes of Thunderforce 4, Carrier Airwing, R-Type Leo...
But also Gunstar Heroes and Turrican 2 (which I suppose as much vertical scrolling as horizontal!)

But Outzone leading the charge on Vertical I suppose...

o1s1n

Yep, probably should have been more specific instead and said shmup. If we were to include run and gun type shooters I'd have to change my choice back to horizontal.

Although..Shock Troopers and Mercs. I do love Mercs.

Retr0gamer

Used to be able to 1 credit mercs. I love that game.

Think you should be fine with an LCD, just don't blame me if it ****s up.

CiDeRmAn

Just downloaded the FBA emu and going to give it whirl.
I would really like a decent Mame emu that works well, any I try seem to cause all sorts of trouble, not to mention the Romset I own is terribly out of date!

Retr0gamer

Just use mame 0.67 or a version around that period. It's one of the better versions before the purist nazi's took over the project and started slowing things down by trying to make things stupidly arcade perfect and creating a really inefficient behemoth. It's also very compatible with most romsets. Really hate trying to find a new rom of a game that was perfectly playable on an older version of mame. There's no point in getting the latest versions unless you want to play slideshow versions of sega model 1 and 2 games that are much better on a standalone emulator.

o1s1n

Finally got FBA working on the PSP. Downloaded one of the very first versions (Thanks animaX!)

There's no sound & the joystick doesn't work (Feckin hate the PSP D pad) but Donpatchi runs nice and smooth and looks fantastic on the PSP screen.

Also recently discovered that the Raiden 2 PCB is so heavily protected with encryption that it still can't be emulated. I always thought there was just some issue with my romset.

Would explain why the PCB always goes for a decent amount of money on ebay. Also makes my copy of The Raiden Project for the ps1 seem that bit more important!
When I bought it, Smyths had a load of copies they were letting go for 7 euro. Had a feeling I should have bought several.

animaX

o1s1n wrote: »

Finally got FBA working on the PSP. Downloaded one of the very first versions (Thanks animaX!)

There's no sound & the joystick doesn't work (Feckin hate the PSP D pad) but Donpatchi runs nice and smooth and looks fantastic on the PSP screen.

Good stuff! Strange thats there's no sound or joystick, you must have an old phat psp is that it? Alternatively, you could get the ps1 version of the game and install it on the psp. Then it will have sound and joystick for sure

Retr0gamer

Donpachi and Dodonpachi are two of the very few shooters that were on the PS1 and Saturn were the PS1 version is vastly superior.

o1s1n

It's because the version of Final Burn Alpha that I installed is so old it doesn't have sound or joystick support! Thought I'd try the oldest one I could find first to test the original being best theory. (Which worked)

Now to try the next one up...

As a matter of interest, what do you think of Donpachi and Dodonpachi Retro? I know you don't like bullet hell games.

Retr0gamer

I actually think both games are excellent. They are bullet hell shooters before they got stupidly hard. I absolutely hate the 3rd donpachi game because it just got stupidly hard.

CiDeRmAn

I played FBA a good bit, Mars Matrix, Metal Slug 4 and 5 and a few others won't work, or lock it up
I must have a fiddle with it.
On a brighter note, got a CPS1 and CPS2 emu with a large working romset included, must have a crack at that!
Time to invest in an 8gb Mem stick I think!

CCCP^

I've been playing Sol-Feace lately and I think it's a good game. I'm not someone who plays alot of shoot 'em ups normally, but I like this one. The soundtrack is the best feature I think but it plays well and its challenging. It's not a classic by any means but its growing on me.

o1s1n

Sol-Feace is a really good game. Soundtrack does stand out alright. Just got a bit of grief because it didn't exactly push the Mega CD to new heights.

Actually it was ported over to the Megadrive a little while after under the title Sol-Deace.

By the way, whatdayamean you dont play shooters?! There's no excuse for not playing shooters!...play more shooters!!

CCCP^

It's not a genre of games I play alot shamefully but I will try and clear Sol-Feace, it's good. Sol-Deace came after this one? I got it mixed up and thought Sol-Deace came out first. D'oh.

Ronan|Raven

Ikaruga. That is all. Infact im tempted to get the dreamcast out for it now.

Retr0gamer

I don't know how you's can rate sol-feace. It's painfully average. There's much better on the Megadrve/ Mega CD like Koei flying squadron, musha aleste and eliminate down.

o1s1n

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

Ikaruga. That is all. Infact im tempted to get the dreamcast out for it now.

I had to literally slap myself in the face not to buy a copy of that on ebay yesterday. I don't even have a bloody Dreamcast!

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I don't know how you's can rate sol-feace. It's painfully average. There's much better on the Megadrve/ Mega CD like Koei flying squadron, musha aleste and eliminate down.

Ah it's no Musha, but it's still a fun game. Especially for the price you can pick it up for. Plus it's well worth playing for the music alone. Something which obviously can't compare in the Megardrive version.

Speaking of Megadrive shooters, have you guys played Gleylancer much? It's one of the only Megadrive games I've considered shelling out a load of money for. Shame it was only given a Japanese release

Love that opening level where you think you're just flying through some asteroids, but then a planet appears in the background and you realize you're flying through what looks like the rings of Saturn (Well that's how I interperet it anyway!)

Retr0gamer

Gley Lancer is a gorgeous looking game but it's a bit vapid. Some people love it, some people think it's dull. It's on the virtual console I think.

You should really try eliminate down. It's far too expensive to buy but it's probably the best shmup on the megadrive.

CiDeRmAn

I love Gley Lancer, its running in some sort of HD mode and looks super sweet.
Something about the shooters on the Megadrive, transcends the arcade roots of the genre.
I mean, after Thunderforce III and IV, few arcade shooters ever appealed, it was like "I've already played the best".
FBA seems to be a but picky about roms alright, but I'll figure it out!
My Mame romset is v0.80 but, to my disgust, the cds it's supplied on, and there's five of them, are damaged, not by anything in particular, just degradation over the years in storage! Crappy CD-Rs!
So, a lot of the games won't work, just get cyclical redundancy check fails.
Arse!

I'm sure there's *somewhere* that I can get a PSP Mame with a romset attached, will do a bit of googling later on.

Retr0gamer

I really like Thunderforce 3 and 4 but they are far from the best in the genre for me. There's something off about them. I'd much rather play hudsons games on the TG-16.

o1s1n

Something 'off' about 4?

You're mad so you are

Retr0gamer

Well I know what was wrong with 3, the bosses were a push over. But yeah, there's just something off about Thunderforce 4. It doesn't feel right. It's a well made game, and I should love it but I merely think it's a good game. I'd rather play something like Axelay or technosofts own Hyperduel.

komodosp

I love Thunderforce 4, but one thing I didn't like about it was that often it's quite hard to see what's going on, like on "Strite", the clouds flying in the background makes htings hard to see. Same with the little pink bullets that the boss at the end of the desert level.

But I can't think of a flying shooter that's better than it!

Also, the "Blade" seems to be a downgrade of a weapon! It's only good against slow-moving baddies... Otherwise the twin shot seems to be better...

But the music is fantastic in it though, the whole game is just brilliant...

Retr0gamer

A really annoying bug in the game is that the main blade shots don't work on the first boss. First time I played it that boss took me ages because I wasn't doing any damage except with the angled blade shots but I never realised it. Switching the the rear firing gun is much quicker.

o1s1n

Had a good day of shooters today! Spent the whole day playing.

The only rule was 1 credit only/no continues.

Started off with the Neogeo. Alpha Mission 2, then followed by Blazing Star. Got half way through both but was then mowed down by bosses.

Megadrive was next up with Target Earth first and then Sub Terrania. Really can't get to grips with Target Earth at all. I can see a great game under there...just find the controls very clunky. Sub Terrania was the complete opposite control wise. Great little game.

Thought I would deviate from space shooters for a bit and play Megadrive Probotector (Contra Hard Corps for all you NTSC heads). It was at that point I realized the Megadrive scart connection was dodgy. So a bit of tweaking later, and I was back playing it again. Fun fun game. Loving the difficulty level. Really makes you feel proud when you actually get anywhere.

That then put me in the mood for some Metal Slug. Realised I rarely play 5 due to the cart being a little too big for the MVS converter. Risked it anyway (Horrible bloody creak from the thing). I quite like the game. Doesn't deserve the negativity it gets. Bit on the easy side though.

To finish the day off, went back to the Megadrive for MUSHA. I always forget how long the levels are in this. Tis fairly punishing after playing shooters all day. Was plowing right through without dying at all...until a lapse of concentration on the 4th stage. Bah, my eyes were bleeding at that stage anyway!

Retr0gamer

I will salute you if you can beat Contra Hard Corp. I did it when it came out and while it was immensely satisfying it was also a huge challenge.

Also play some eliminate down and tell me what you think!

Target Earth I heard is a bit naff, way too tough for it's own good. It's a prequel to cybernator/assault suit valken.

o1s1n

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I will salute you if you can beat Contra Hard Corp. I did it when it came out and while it was immensely satisfying it was also a huge challenge.

Nowhere near that yet! Maybe if I sit down and seriously dedicate time to it. I'm at that point where I finally get passed a bit, am excited as a result, which ends up in a lapse of concentration/imminent doom.

As a matter of interest, how long did it take you before you could finally get through it?

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Also play some eliminate down and tell me what you think!

I did and it's ****ing fantastic. Don't know why I've been overlooking it so long. When I started descending through all those rockets at the start of the game I knew it was going to be good... (Also had a 'oh, there's another one of those cinematic experiences in a horizontal shooter that retrogamer was on about' moment)

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Target Earth I heard is a bit naff, way too tough for it's own good. It's a prequel to cybernator/assault suit valken.

Yep, Assault suit Valken is so good that I just had to give Target Earth a go. The visuals haven't dated well, but the whole management system is meant to be brilliant. Although the difficulty level might be just too high to bother sticking around to see. And it's not Contra hard corps fun difficult. It's 'OMFG WHY WON'T MY MECHA SHOOT THE WAY I WANT IT?!' difficult.

komodosp

Retr0gamer wrote: »

A really annoying bug in the game is that the main blade shots don't work on the first boss. First time I played it that boss took me ages because I wasn't doing any damage except with the angled blade shots but I never realised it. Switching the the rear firing gun is much quicker.

That's the bit that got me thinking about it! One of the conventions of the game is that if you are doing damage, you get an orange explosion from the bullet impact, but if you're not, you get a blue explosion... But the blade round gives you an orange explosion no matter what you hit

So I think the blade bullet is too big to fit into the vulnerable parts of that boss... But you think you're doing damage because the explosion is orange!

Retr0gamer

o1s1n wrote: »

As a matter of interest, how long did it take you before you could finally get through it?

I was still in school when I did it, 1994 I think it was when it came out. So I hadn't many games due to lack of money and loads of free time. Took me aabout 3 months to get through it but I really had to concentrate on it. There's a few points in the game you will get stuck on for a while. The stage 3 and 5 bosses are horrible until you learn them and the path that leads you to the missle boss is really tough.