450 Retired Teachers on Department of Education Payroll

maynooth_rules

Articles about it in todays Sindo and Daily Mail. Any wonder newly qualified teachers cant get any work. Here we have teachers who have done years of service, are getting a nice teachers pension and government pension, some who have received golden handshakes, and they are then given substitution over a newly qualified teacher. Batt O'Keefe cam out with the usual jargon. He urged schools to give substitute hours to recently qualified teachers in preference to retirees. Cant he do a little more than simply urge schools to change

TheDriver

Something I have said before, I see in certain schools that last minute subbing comes up and principles in rural areas need someone ready to do work, which is usually a retired teacher as new grads aren't always as available. Think the context needs to be looked at, I don't think I have seen any retired person take lots of hours, usually just a day for primary schools were need arises.

implausible

Well, if the Sindo says it.....

Did this not come up on a thread a few weeks ago? Batt O'Keeffe wrote to principals asking them to give NQTs preference for subbing. And, most of the time they do.

However, as the Driver pointed out, it's not always possible to get a sub at short notice. A primary school principal I know in a rural area has often either been unable to take days due to the lack of a sub or had to call in a retiree. He would loves to give NQTs the chance, but they're not always available. The figures published by that rag masquerading as a broadsheet mostly refer to primary schools.

Coolio

As the other posters said, it's not as simple as giving NQT's the hours. If you're a principal in a school and you find out a 8.30am you've a teacher out, you want someone who you know will take the class without any drama. You know who they are, they're available and that they can do the job. One less problem to deal with that day! That's the harsh reality...

pjtb

Retired teachers aren't getting subbing solely because of 'short notice'. I've mentioned it in this forum before, but a primary teacher in my local school who retired a very short time ago got nearly a full year of maternity leave just last year. The parents weren't very happy, and have said if the same thing happens again there will be words.

bbbbbaaaaa

How are Primary Teachers supposed to complete their probation of almost one complete years teaching under the supervision of inspectors if the only work available is one or two days teaching per month. This probationary work is supposed to be completed within five years of qualifying as a primary teacher. I have heard of people with BA degrees and Montessori qualifications (not to mention the retired teachers etc.) getting substitute work when there are thousands of B.Ed.s crying out for experience. With jobs for primary teachers like gold-dust at the moment, surely Principals and those in charge of recruiting primary teachers should give priority to teachers who are properly qualified. Most jobs advertised are attracting hundreds and sometimes over a thousand applicants and most of these jobs are already allocated to a teacher before they are advertised. Unfortunately, most jobs advertised at the moment are for permanent positions, which may sound attractive, but unless primary teachers have completed their probationary period with Inspector's reports, they cannot apply for these positions - it's a catch 22.
There is no point in sticking it out and waiting for the majority of teachers to emigrate as come next June there will be thousands more qualified teachers joining the queue of job-seekers. The Minister of Education needs to be aware of what is happening on the ground with primary teaching. By reducing class sizes and cutbacks, he is driving our young educators who could be taxpayers and consumers and home buyers out of the country and also he is denying our young an educational experience that they deserve.

pjtb

The numbers in teacher training courses need to be reduced.
Drastically.
Either that or decrease the pupil teacher ratio.
Drastically.

I think that that the first option is most likely at the moment. It wouldn't solve the problem but it would help.

E.T.

Our school hasn't had one single NQT ring/call in/drop in a CV to say they're available for subbing in the last 2 years. We have had unqualified people calling in to say they're available for subbing. I know we've had days where classes have had to be split because we couldn't get a sub for the day, even with the principal ringing around other local schools looking for sub names. If you aren't getting any subbing, put your name into ALL the schools in a 20 mile radius. That isn't hugely far to travel any morning. I'm not aiming this post at people who have put their names into as many local schools as possible, but there have to be people who haven't ventured outside their own town looking for work. If none of the schools in my locality (within fifteen minutes from 2 major towns, 5 big villages, 30 mins from city) have any sub names available, then there's obviously a huge amount of subbing days that are given to local retired teachers instead. I know 2 of our regular retired subs well, and they've both indicated that they'll only sub if they are our last resort.

icescreamqueen

I have absolutely nothing against retired teachers working in schools. There was one morning a couple of weeks ago that the principal in my school had to ring 30 numbers before he got a substitute teacher, who just happened to be a retired teacher. I think a big part of the problem is that over the last 4-5 years, the Department qualified far too many teachers. Even without the budget cuts, there would have been a huge surplus of qualified teachers. What I see happening a lot now is that a lot of qualified teachers work in other jobs or go on the dole because subbing is unpredictable and obviously people have bills to pay.

evolving_doors

pjtb wrote: »

The numbers in teacher training courses need to be reduced.
Drastically.
Either that or decrease the pupil teacher ratio.
Drastically.

I think that that the first option is most likely at the moment. It wouldn't solve the problem but it would help

I dont see the colleges giving up all that lolly,,,,

This baby boom tsunami should take care of point 1 above..(eventually!!!!)

I reckon they increased the ratio last time so that they will look good decreasing it next time....(even though with the extra student population it probably wont make a difference...)

C'mon retirees give us a go..:(

pjtb

Armelodie wrote: »

I dont see the colleges giving up all that lolly,,,,

The colleges won't want to give up any lolly, but doesn't the DES set the numbers for the B.Ed an Postgrad in colleges like Mary I and Pats? If big time emigration started again the baby boom would leave the country fairly quick :eek:.

bbbbbaaaaa

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
There should be no need for a Principal to ring thirty numbers to get a substitute teacher. All a Principal has to do is ring their local Education Centre run by the INTO and demand only a properly qualified primary teacher. The Education Centres have a long list of candidates looking for substitute work. It's up to the Principals and the parents to demand only qualified teachers to teach in their schools. I can assure you that there are far more qualified teachers available for subbing than there are positions available. Most teachers are more than willing to travel at least twenty miles to get work. I am willing to travel anywhere in Ireland if I could get my probation done as time is running out for me quickly.

cookiejar

bbbbbaaaaa wrote: »

How are Primary Teachers supposed to complete their probation of almost one complete years teaching under the supervision of inspectors if the only work available is one or two days teaching per month. This probationary work is supposed to be completed within five years of qualifying as a primary teacher. I have heard of people with BA degrees and Montessori qualifications (not to mention the retired teachers etc.) getting substitute work when there are thousands of B.Ed.s crying out for experience. With jobs for primary teachers like gold-dust at the moment, surely Principals and those in charge of recruiting primary teachers should give priority to teachers who are properly qualified. Most jobs advertised are attracting hundreds and sometimes over a thousand applicants and most of these jobs are already allocated to a teacher before they are advertised. Unfortunately, most jobs advertised at the moment are for permanent positions, which may sound attractive, but unless primary teachers have completed their probationary period with Inspector's reports, they cannot apply for these positions - it's a catch 22.
There is no point in sticking it out and waiting for the majority of teachers to emigrate as come next June there will be thousands more qualified teachers joining the queue of job-seekers. The Minister of Education needs to be aware of what is happening on the ground with primary teaching. By reducing class sizes and cutbacks, he is driving our young educators who could be taxpayers and consumers and home buyers out of the country and also he is denying our young an educational experience that they deserve.

I totally agree with everything you've said. I know there are teachers that are not fully qualified or retired etc, that are in employment while fully qualified teachers are on the dole! It is a very sad situation and I would love to know how a young, qualified dynamic teacher I personally know is unemployed?! This situation is a disgrace as how can a young person have a chance to do her probation in this climate. I think it is time to make new regulations regarding the probationary process! I also think it is far easier for a young man to gain employment in teaching! Who is going to help these young, energetic teachers find employment? How are they going to be probated???

bbbbbaaaaa

:cool::cool::cool:

It's much easier for a male to get work as a primary teacher as schools try to have a gender balance. As anyone who has gone through Mary I or St. Pats will know, the ratio of females to males is quite obvious. Yet, the ratio of male principals to females does not mirror this. It's much easier for males to get promotion in primary teaching. If most Principals are males and the head of the Board of Management is a male, obviously gender is going to be on the agenda in the recruitment process. In some remote schools its still who who know that will get you the job and not your qualities as a teacher. No wonder there are so many unsuitable teachers. I think the parents should have more of a say in the recruitment process.

icescreamqueen

bbbbbaaaaa wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
There should be no need for a Principal to ring thirty numbers to get a substitute teacher. All a Principal has to do is ring their local Education Centre run by the INTO and demand only a properly qualified primary teacher. The Education Centres have a long list of candidates looking for substitute work. It's up to the Principals and the parents to demand only qualified teachers to teach in their schools. I can assure you that there are far more qualified teachers available for subbing than there are positions available. Most teachers are more than willing to travel at least twenty miles to get work. I am willing to travel anywhere in Ireland if I could get my probation done as time is running out for me quickly.

I don't understand why you're rolling your eyes. The principal in the school is a very fair man and he wanted to give a chance to the qualified teachers who sent their CV into the school (hence why he called 30 numbers). However, between one thing and another, he had to call in a retired teacher, who is still regarded as a qualified teacher!

bbbbbaaaaa

I'm sure your Principal is a very fair man but I can imagine how he had to ring thirty numbers before he found someone available. Most people who send in CVs to schools are applying for Permanent positions and have already completed their probation. Therefore, they probably have already found work or are not interested in short-term or temporary work It's the people who are running out of time to complete their probation (five years from qualifying) and who are looking for one year's unbroken work experience (Temporary work), with Inspectors reports, who are desperately seeking Temporary work as they cannot apply for Permanent positions until they are fully probated. I know several people who are now in year five with no hope of getting their probation done and I'm sure there are many who have given up altogether. Another problem seems to be that some teachers on maternity leave do not give a definitive date of return and the substitute teacher cannot apply to get his or her probation done. When there was a backlog for the Driving Test at least something was done to aleviate the problem.

bbbbbaaaaa

icescreamqueen wrote: »

I don't understand why you're rolling your eyes. The principal in the school is a very fair man and he wanted to give a chance to the qualified teachers who sent their CV into the school (hence why he called 30 numbers). However, between one thing and another, he had to call in a retired teacher, who is still regarded as a qualified teacher!

Most CVs are sent in by people who have completed their probation and are looking for Permanent positions. Most Permanent jobs advertised look for fully probated teachers. Most probated teachers are looking for Permanent jobs.
Teachers who need to do their probation are looking for Temporary positions so that they can complete their probation and they can then apply for Permanent positions. Unfortunately they need a position for one full school year, with Inspectors' visits, in order to complete their probation. Doesn't look like many of them will be able to do this at the moment.

evolving_doors

Sheila Noonan, (the incoming general secretary of INTO) spoke on morning Ireland today( the interview should be up soon)... I was a bit taken aback on her stance as she was saying that the reason these RETIRED teachers were being used was that they were the most qualified.....like hello...thanks for standing up for your newest members on the difficulty of getting qualification status...

A bit annoying that FG brian Hayes has called for..
"the establishment of a graduate teacher recruitment scheme, dedicated to employing young teachers as teaching assistants at a special, reduced rate of pay." (From rte website)

Why a reduced rate of pay (a little bit more than the dole he suggests) ...just give them a bloody job man with the same rate as everyone else.. not crumbs from the table with some wishy washy title..

Hello people ...wake up ..our kids need more teachers..this is the solution to everything..stop flaffing about..

Dionysus

bbbbbaaaaa wrote: »

Most people who send in CVs to schools are applying for Permanent positions and have already completed their probation. Therefore, they probably have already found work or are not interested in short-term or temporary work It's the people who are running out of time to complete their probation (five years from qualifying) and who are looking for one year's unbroken work experience (Temporary work), with Inspectors reports, who are desperately seeking Temporary work as they cannot apply for Permanent positions until they are fully probated. I know several people who are now in year five with no hope of getting their probation done and I'm sure there are many who have given up altogether.

Do you have to do this 'probation year' if you have just qualified with the PGDE for secondary school teaching, or does it just apply to primary school teaching?
What happens if they don't complete it within five years?

boardswalker

I am amazed that no-one has picked up on the obvious age discrimination issue here.
I don't think its legal for schools to employ teachers simply because they are younger.
Check out the Equality Authority website, NERAs website, citizensinformation.ie.
The legislation is not new.
I can understand a politician not knowing it - but well educated young people with degrees?

evolving_doors

boardswalker wrote: »

I am amazed that no-one has picked up on the obvious age discrimination issue here.
I don't think its legal for schools to employ teachers simply because they are younger.

I think the principals are saying (listening to interviews of principals on today's radio programms) that it's experience and qualifications that get the retired teachers the jobs...(the fact that they are older is inconsequential)..
If a principal can get someone younger who is just as experienced and qualified then they would (fat chance of that!!)...

Hmmm... Could it be that the retired teachers are probably the very ones who helped those principals get their jobs in the first place...so the underlying issue is more about backscratching than qualifications..This is Ireland you know!!

boardswalker

The minister has stated that he has written to all schools asking them to prioritise newly qualified teachers. That has been reported in all the media.

Now newly qualified teachers, in most cases, are younger.
So the minister is asking schools to breach employment equality legislation.
And Fine Gael seem to be taking a similar stance.

Its the advise to favour younger teachers that I am picking up on and I am surprised that no-one else is picking up on it.

J.R.

bbbbbaaaaa wrote: »

It's the people who are running out of time to complete their probation (five years from qualifying) and who are looking for one year's unbroken work experience (Temporary work), with Inspectors reports, who are desperately seeking Temporary work as they cannot apply for Permanent positions until they are fully probated.

A teacher does not need to be probated to apply for permanent mainstream positions..........that stipulation only applies to learning support.

A NQT straight out of college can apply for a permanent position.

maynooth_rules

boardswalker wrote: »

I am amazed that no-one has picked up on the obvious age discrimination issue here.
I don't think its legal for schools to employ teachers simply because they are younger.
Check out the Equality Authority website, NERAs website, citizensinformation.ie.
The legislation is not new.
I can understand a politician not knowing it - but well educated young people with degrees?

I don't think its an issue of age. There are hundreds of newly qualified teacher on the dole, they deserve substitute work a lot more than a a retired teacher on a healthy teachers pension and government pension. I can guarantee that many of these retired teachers are getting a hell of a lot of money each week without the need to do substitute work

bbbbbaaaaa

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I don't think its an issue of age. There are hundreds of newly qualified teacher on the dole, they deserve substitute work a lot more than a a retired teacher on a healthy teachers pension and government pension. I can guarantee that many of these retired teachers are getting a hell of a lot of money each week without the need to do substitute work

It's high time, the power to hire who they like was taken away from the schools. At a time like this of course there is going to be favours done and sometimes candidates are wasting their time and money applying for jobs as they are already promised before they are advertised. Why spend 300 euro a day on a retired teacher to do substitute work when a recently qualified teacher (within the last 10 years) can be hired for much less - its a complete waste of money. There should be a central panel set up by the INTO where jobs are allocated on a fair basis. This could give much needed employment to people who have completed post-graduate studies in education. Us young teachers will never enjoy the pensions that the recently retired teachers have - so good luck to them.
By the way, thanks J.R. for your info. on the probation. I don't understand though why so many permanent positions ask for only fully probated teachers with inspectors reports. It prevented me from applying for several positions I was interested in.

E.T.

bbbbbaaaaa - I think the lack of jobs for NQTs is a really crap situation, but taking away each school's power to hire who they like is crazy. We've had some really terrible subs over the years - the deputy principal went in to one class last year and said the kids were literally running around the room - obviously that sub teacher hasn't been called back again, and wouldn't be called for interview. I've also worked with a completely inept teacher who bullied all of the rest of the staff, and made our lives hell for 2 years. If it was up to an outside panel then someone like this could easily have been considered for a permanent position in our school! It makes much more sense for a school to be able to hire the candidate of their choice, whether it's for 1 day of subbing, or for a permanent job. In an ideal world there wouldn't be any "pull" or "who you know" involved in the appointment, and I do think this is totally unfair.

bbbbbaaaaa

E.T. wrote: »

bbbbbaaaaa - I think the lack of jobs for NQTs is a really crap situation, but taking away each school's power to hire who they like is crazy. We've had some really terrible subs over the years - the deputy principal went in to one class last year and said the kids were literally running around the room - obviously that sub teacher hasn't been called back again, and wouldn't be called for interview. I've also worked with a completely inept teacher who bullied all of the rest of the staff, and made our lives hell for 2 years. If it was up to an outside panel then someone like this could easily have been considered for a permanent position in our school! It makes much more sense for a school to be able to hire the candidate of their choice, whether it's for 1 day of subbing, or for a permanent job. In an ideal world there wouldn't be any "pull" or "who you know" involved in the appointment, and I do think this is totally unfair.

E.T., I see your point but I really wonder how those substitute teachers were recruited. Were they qualified teachers? Had they come through Mary I or St. Pat's? Somehow I doubt it very much. I know that the Education Centres do send unqualified teachers to do subbing (even though qualified teachers are on their panel) - again it's the 'who you know' thing and the schools should demand only qualified teachers. When I did some subbing last week, I was asked by the school Principal whether I had been available the previous week and I was amazed to hear that an unqualified person was sent to that school while I was available. It would be ideal if the school had an input as well as a central panel but not complete control.

E.T.

Both were fully qualified teachers with B.Ed degrees, one from Mary I, not sure where the other teacher qualified though. My point doesn't have anything to do with qualified/unqualified though, it's more that I think it's vital that schools are left to choose a teacher themselves. Just because someone is on a list from an Education Centre doesn't mean that they're going to do a better job than someone who isn't. Also, if you are looking for subbing, I hope people are still ringing schools or calling in, even if they've put their names on the Education Centre lists - any school outside a city is going to ring around locally or to people who've dropped in CVs first to get someone asap.

Dionysus

J.R. wrote: »

A teacher does not need to be probated to apply for permanent mainstream positions..........that stipulation only applies to learning support.

A NQT straight out of college can apply for a permanent position.

Thank you, J.R. That claim that we needed to do a year probation after we are awarded the PGDE really threw me (I'm doing the PGDE this year).

J.R.

bbbbbaaaaa wrote: »

By the way, thanks J.R. for your info. on the probation. I don't understand though why so many permanent positions ask for only fully probated teachers with inspectors reports. It prevented me from applying for several positions I was interested in.

I'm only guessing here as (thankfully) I haven't been checking the jobs advertised for quite a while so I haven't seen these ads asking for probated teachers only.

I do know that when one is advertising a post on-line the last part of the ad has a drop down menu which one can tick what's required....C.V......letter of application....references.....inspectors reports.....principals application form...copies of degrees, diploma's ..etc. These can be clicked if required in the ad.

When advertising for a mainstream post all qualified teachers are entitled to apply.....PGDE, Hibernia, Mary I, Froebel, Marino, St. Pat's, etc. One cannot state that only probated teachers need apply. Many NQT's in the past few years have secured a permanent position as their first job.

I think that the confusion is arising from the inspectors reports stipulation placed in the ad. If one does not have the dip. done (probation period) then include reports from college lectures, T.P. results, references from college, principals of schools you've subbed in ...etc. instead. The drop down menu in the ad. placement does not give the advertiser the option of asking for these...they're not in the drop down menu.

One can only state that fully probated teachers only need apply when placing an ad. for learning support or principalship. Home-School-Community-Liaison teachers must also be fully probated but as these are filled from within the staff they are not advertised publically.

You are correct when you state that one has five years from qualifying to complete their probation. With the current situation with jobs shortage, embargo on recruiting inspectors and the possibility of the situation worsening if the pupil teacher ratio is increased in future budgets I'm sure this stipulation will have to be reviewed.

J.R.

Dionysus wrote: »

Thank you, J.R. That claim that we needed to do a year probation after we are awarded the PGDE really threw me (I'm doing the PGDE this year).

You will have to do a year's probation after qualifying if teaching in primary. But you do not need to have the probation period completed prior to applying for jobs.

You must secure a post first and if the position is long enough you can apply to do the probation period.....dip.....whereby an inspectors drops in 2-3 times during the year to monitor your teaching, notes, planning, class management etc. and advises you on such. Towards the end of the period the inspector will visit the class for a full day and if satisified will award the diploma.

boardswalker

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I don't think its an issue of age.

The media reported that the minister was sending a letter to schools asking them to appoint the younger teachers.
The Employment Equality legislation law does not allow an employer to discriminate on the grounds of age.
Todays irish independent reports that "Sources said the minister could not force schools to refuse to give work to retired teachers as it would be in breach of equality legislation".
QED

Dionysus

J.R. wrote: »

You will have to do a year's probation after qualifying if teaching in primary. But you do not need to have the probation period completed prior to applying for jobs.

You must secure a post first and if the position is long enough you can apply to do the probation period.....dip.....whereby an inspectors drops in 2-3 times during the year to monitor your teaching, notes, planning, class management etc. and advises you on such. Towards the end of the period the inspector will visit the class for a full day and if satisified will award the diploma.

OK! So there is no form of probation for secondary school teachers who have just left college with the PGDE? This PGDE year is our 'probation' year.

gaeilgegrinds

Written on our contracts the first year...just fished mine out!

maynooth_rules

boardswalker wrote: »

The media reported that the minister was sending a letter to schools asking them to appoint the younger teachers.
The Employment Equality legislation law does not allow an employer to discriminate on the grounds of age.
Todays irish independent reports that "Sources said the minister could not force schools to refuse to give work to retired teachers as it would be in breach of equality legislation".
QED

Here is a letter from yesterdays Independent

The practice of retired school teachers getting paid fat pensions and being allowed to work part time or residually within the education system amounts to legitimised social welfare fraud.

The receipt of a double pay cheque is an outrageous abuse of the welfare system and gives no hope whatsoever to newly qualified teachers who are totally frozen out.

Education is not the only area in which so-called residual or significant salaries are being paid to those who are supposed to be retired and who draw a state pension.

We also seem to have a huge population of people in this country who draw heavily from the public purse and continue working. Second line Defence Forces cost us a fortune for doing absolutely nothing, again they are paid a full pension on top of any other work they might get.

There also seems to be a growing number of people in the private sector who are made redundant and paid high levels of severance pay, only to be taken back within months.

Any country such as ours that plays this type of monopoly hasn't a hope in hell of ever moving forward.

It is not about refusing to give work to retired teachers, it is about schools realising that retired teachers are getting a healthy pension every week, newly qualified teachers are crying out all over the country for hours. Someone on a full pension from an organisation should not be invited back to work for nearly €300 a day. Unfortunatly this stems from the top, where sitting TDs are allowed get their pension on top of their TD salary. A joke IMO

boardswalker

maynooth_rules wrote: »

It is not about refusing to give work to retired teachers, it is about schools realising that retired teachers are getting a healthy pension every week, newly qualified teachers are crying out all over the country for hours. Someone on a full pension from an organisation should not be invited back to work for nearly €300 a day. Unfortunatly this stems from the top, where sitting TDs are allowed get their pension on top of their TD salary. A joke IMO

Yes, but the merits of your argument are irrelevant.
The law does not allow an employer to discriminate on the basis of age.
That's a fact.

So the idea of a Minister, who should know the law, advising Schools to hire young teachers is farcical and symptomatic of the state we are in. For me, that's the biggest joke of all.

bbbbbaaaaa

boardswalker wrote: »

Yes, but the merits of your argument are irrelevant.
The law does not allow an employer to discriminate on the basis of age.
That's a fact.

So the idea of a Minister, who should know the law, advising Schools to hire young teachers is farcical and symptomatic of the state we are in. For me, that's the biggest joke of all.

The law is the law and has nothing to do with justice.
Have these retired teachers any conscious?

boardswalker

bbbbbaaaaa wrote: »

The law is the law and has nothing to do with justice.
Have these retired teachers any conscious?

Come on George! I know it's you!
You just want to put food on your family!

Za Za

boardswalker wrote: »

Come on George! I know it's you!
You just want to put food on your family!

There is so much money in the country, why not employ retired teachers at the top rate to try and use up some of it. We can also afford to educate our young people and send them off to the UK and Australia.
We can also afford to give these young people Social Welfare benefits.
We can also afford to build thousands of houses and leave them vacant.
What a great country - for the chosen few.
The future of this country lies in it's educated young people.
Our primary school students deserve young, happy and energetic teachers.

StargazerLily

I don't think the focus should be on retired teachers versus young teachers - that is being ageist or discriminatory. Retired teachers have the experience and are in many cases (not all, obviously) an asset to many schools in that they can be called at short notice, know the school and many of the students and usually won't have classroom management problems that a young inexperienced sub might have - a generalisation I know, but the students in our school usually only 'act up' on new young teachers and are less likely to take on the teachers they know (often former year heads/ deans etc). While jobs were plentiful and subs hard to get I think it was fine to employ so many retired teachers, for the above reasons but I think given the cutbacks and the fact that so many qualified teachers are seeking work it is no longer justifiable. I think all principals should be urged (not forced, due to equality legislation) to put unemployed qualified teachers first (if they happen to be young, fine) and only use retired teachers when they've exhausted the list of other available teachers first.

lellybelle

I am an unemployed NQT. I haven't been able to get any hours of teaching at all even though I've contacted close to 200 schools at this stage. This week I decided to volunteer at an afterschool club in my local primary school in the hope this might lead to some work or at least enhance my CV. Afterwards I was speaking to the school secretary who started talking about how lots of teachers from the school had retired over the last couple of years. She then went on to say (quite chirpily!) that you'd never know they were retired though, because they're back in every week covering for us when we need substitute teachers! How do we have a hope of getting any sort of work, when this is still going on in schools?? The government seem to be saying this and that should happen, but nothing is ever enforced. Honestly, I'm completely disillussioned at this stage

Brookie123

lellybelle wrote: »

I am an unemployed NQT. I haven't been able to get any hours of teaching at all even though I've contacted close to 200 schools at this stage. This week I decided to volunteer at an afterschool club in my local primary school in the hope this might lead to some work or at least enhance my CV. Afterwards I was speaking to the school secretary who started talking about how lots of teachers from the school had retired over the last couple of years. She then went on to say (quite chirpily!) that you'd never know they were retired though, because they're back in every week covering for us when we need substitute teachers! How do we have a hope of getting any sort of work, when this is still going on in schools?? The government seem to be saying this and that should happen, but nothing is ever enforced. Honestly, I'm completely disillussioned at this stage

It's going on still in alot of schools. It's a joke esp with all the unemployed qualified teachers around.

rainbowtrout

bbbbbaaaaa wrote: »

Most people who send in CVs to schools are applying for Permanent positions and have already completed their probation. Therefore, they probably have already found work or are not interested in short-term or temporary work

If they have already found work why are they still sending out CVs? And if they haven't found work, then surely they are not really in a position to be turning their noses up at subbing work, probation completed or not?

bbbbbaaaaa wrote: »

Another problem seems to be that some teachers on maternity leave do not give a definitive date of return and the substitute teacher cannot apply to get his or her probation done.

I don't see the problem here. Maternity leave is 26 weeks. I don't know any teachers who go back to work earlier than this. Some take unpaid leave after the maternity leave has finished. Really it's not of concern to the teacher on leave whether the sub in their place is completing probation or not. They can't arrange their life around the sub. I know if I was on maternity leave I would be doing what is best for me and the baby and not thinking about the sub.

It's no different than the posts by LC students who whinge that their teacher had the cheek to get pregnant and go on maternity leave during their LC year. How inconsiderate of her.

vintac34

Totally disagree with retired teachers doing sub work while on a very substancial publically funded state pension..get the NQT in ,give them and the children a brighter outlook..
At the quoted eu300 per day,plus the 3 good reasons for being a teacher i.e June-July-August i really believe we need the IMF in here ASAP.

Public service salaries and pensions have gone off the chart,except for some recently employed,its simply greed that brings those retired people back to work.
As a retired person i say give the young less well off a chance..End of rant......