Q: What do you want from your Controller?

Fib

im a 6th year doing a project for a class of mine called DCG where by i have to design a new game hand held game controller.

the question that ive been given is

---

there have been many changes to handheld electronic game controllers over the last thirty years. these developments consist of changes to shape and form as well the addition of new features. such features include cordless technology, integral speakers, inbuilt screen and console, etc.


[A] Carry out a design investigation of the physical form and features of handled game controllers to include their development since the ladt 1970's

and

show graphically the modifications which you would make to an existing handheld game controller to improve its overall design


or

develop and graphically communicate a new concept design for a handheld game controller

---

So basicaly ive got a few ideas of my own but im not really a console gamer anymore sence ive gone Pc.

im only looking at the design of the thing so it doesnt matter if it has this chip set in it over something else.

any kind of ideas or just critism of other controllers just to get an idea of what people would want

please reply with comments

thanks

# Fib

r3nu4l

Moved from Call of Duty forum...mods, feel free to move further if this forum isn't right for it either:)

witnessmenow

Its already in the console modding forum too, I'd say this is probably the right place for it, if there is a right place

tman

In a nutshell, the 360 controller is exactly what I want my controller to be.

Has pretty much everything you want from a controller imo... Decent force feedback, wireless, fits comfortably in your hands, weight is just right (PS3 controllers are too light imo), analogue stick placement is perfect.

The only complaint I had about it was the wonky dpad, but apparently they have sorted that out now... (Tempted to buy a fourth controller just for that...)

r3nu4l

Yeah, from my point of view the PS3 controller is perfect (I like the fact that it's light!)

It's comfortable to hold, the buttons aren't too close to one another or crowded and the fact that it's wireless is great.

The wii controller on the other hand I dislike, it's a rectangular remote (Wiimote) and that's just boring imo.

Vegeta

Well obviously a controller has to allow the user adequate control over the games they play. There is no point tacking on features if the games do not require it, ya dig me.

So are you designing a controller so new games can be made to take advantage of these new features OR are you trying to improve the controller for use with current generation games?

You are facing a bit of a problem here. The PS3 and Xbox 360 both have very similar games, infact the majority of titles for both are identical. The Wii on the other hand is very different. These are the schools of thought I mention above.

You are also screwed by patents. My favourite stick is on the gamecube controller which is patented I think and my favourite d-pad is on the Megadrive/Saturn which I also think is patented

The 360 controller is a good controller but I would make some mods:
The trigger, as an analogue input are not sensitive enough. They can feel like on/off switches. This could be due to the lack of travel possible by the index finger owing to the thickness of the pad or the mechanical travel in the triggers themselve as opposed to any lack of resolution in an ADC or some such in the controller. I say this because when playing something like Forza 2 the triggers are mapped to the pedals on the Microsoft Steering wheel and they are much more sensitive and usable.

That's one example. I am off to lunch now though and may return with more thoughts

User45701

what do i want from a game pad? i can tell you what i dont want

no fecking analog sticks - you could get head shots easyier with that tiny scroll ball in the centre of some laptops

Kiith

I love the 360 controller as well. I've pretty big hands, and i always found the Playstation joypad to be too small.

Retr0gamer

L31mr0d

Retr0gamer wrote: »

...

I got one of those delivered to my work. I now understand the purpose of the flip up lid on the box with the window to look at the controller. It's to protect it from all the people who start drooling on impulse as soon as they catch sight of it

For me though, generic controllers sit on a fence that has to make them usuable with nearly every genre of console game, whether it be FPS, Racing, platformer, sport, TPS, RTS, RPG... etc

That fightstick works amazingly with fighters, but have you tried using it for Super Stardust HD? Case in point.

Moving forward with controllers, I'd use the 360 controller as my baseline as, for me, ergonomically and in function has ticked the most boxes.

Pros:
1. Great sensitivity and resistance on the analogue sticks
2. Letters embedded in face buttons so no chance of them ever wearing off
3. Solid weight
4. Compact design and sturdy
5. concave triggers
6. Click rather than depress shoulders
7. Moulded to fit the natural orientation of hands resting on your lap
8. Removable battery pack to allow for upgrading of batteries
9. Wireles
10. Peripheral connections on controller itself

Cons:
1. DPad
2. DPad
3. DPad

For the DPad, just scrap the current one and just copy the one used on the original Saturn controller

What I'd love to see in the next iteration is optional buttons for ALL fingers. The inception of shoulders and then triggers meant that now 6 of your fingers could be used on the controller. This still leaves the gamer with no option to use all 10 fingers on the controller itself. There should be buttons on the underside for your ring and little fingers (like this mod)

Star Bingo

my Dualshock that came w/ the Slim, barely used the L2 is making a grating sound

i just want it to stop doin that

eoin91

by any chance fibb.
are you in 6th year ttecnical graphics?
as there project for the leaving cert is to design a new games controller

corcaigh07

the 360 pad is the best around right now, great weight, very comfortable. the d-pad is poor though and i find the analogs wear and loosen very quickly.

WolfForager

The PS3 pad with 360 triggers would be my preference.

BTW, did DCG last year, and i thought out LC project was BS Good luck mate

Coriolanus

As a couple of people have said, I'd love a 8-button shoulder so that all ten fingers could be used with a bit of practise.
Remember when the shoulder buttons first came out with the PS1 era (first time I had a controller with them at least). It was a little wierd to begin with but pretty soon it became natural.

Retr0gamer

Nevore wrote: »

As a couple of people have said, I'd love a 8-button shoulder so that all ten fingers could be used with a bit of practise.
Remember when the shoulder buttons first came out with the PS1 era (first time I had a controller with them at least). It was a little wierd to begin with but pretty soon it became natural.

Noob. The SNES was the first with shoulder buttons. The PS1 pad was considered a bit crap at the time. Awful d-pad and only 4 face buttons. People have just gotten used to it now.

Coriolanus

:P Never had the SNES, good to know though.

thewheel2.0

Design something that fills the hand like the Xbox 360 controller except make sure all the face buttons are either flat or curve inwards (concave) because after hours of gameplay with the convex 360 face buttons it starts to hurt.

If your designing this for a project, I presume its all on paper and you don't have to make any type of prototype? If so dont waste time putting too much thought into the whole D-pad debate.

CutzEr

Just for shits and giggles - Draw a mouse and a keyboard :P

dazco

I love this project. I now have the excuse of doing 'research' by playing my ps3 when I should be studying

Liamario

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Noob. The SNES was the first with shoulder buttons. The PS1 pad was considered a bit crap at the time. Awful d-pad and only 4 face buttons. People have just gotten used to it now.

I thought the original PS1 pad was lovely. It fit perfectly into the hands. The 360 controller for me is nearly perfect. They need to make it smaller, lighter and fix the D-pad. The weight is perfect for shooters, but it's too heavy for something like ninja gaiden. The sticks are a bit stiff. This also applies to PES. The analogue sticks on the dual shock are better suited to it

Gunmonkey

CutzEr wrote: »

Just for shits and giggles - Draw a mouse and a keyboard :P

Take it one step further:

draw nothing and just write "Natal" in the corner.


Realistically, the 360 pad is very nice, nice weight, analouges are in a nice setup, but again the d-pad is **** and you have to push the 2 triggers almost half way in before you see any results.

thebman

PS3 is better, slight improvement over PS2 but the R2/L2 buttons are irregularly shaped and fell odd to touch but press nicely.

Needs to charge from PC better as I don't want to leave console on to charge it.

360 controller, L/R trigger is annoying and can end up squeaking, require too much press for results, top bumper buttons are ok but a little too far out IMO. other letter buttons need to be analog like PS IMO as it is useful for games where I don't want to use triggers which neither seem to be able to get absolutely right.

D pad on PS3 is far superior but analog sticks are better on 360 although lag resistence to press in as button press sometimes leading to unwanted zoom ins in the heat of battle when adrenaline takes over.

Wii is ok but can be unresponsive at times (not used Wii motion plus). D pad is good but other buttons are very irregularly positioned and I never seem to be able to memorise their positioning but could be due to lack of play time.

brian plank

the ps3 pad with the 360's triggers.

ShiverinEskimo

I prefer the 360 pad over the PS3 pad for two reasons:

Analogue stick and D-Pad are located in accordance with which you use the most - simple but so so so much more comfortable.

Analogue triggers.

If you were to add one or two buttons on the underside/inside of the 'prongs' for your middle/ring fingers you'd be laughing.

thebman

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I prefer the 360 pad over the PS3 pad for two reasons:

Analogue stick and D-Pad are located in accordance with which you use the most - simple but so so so much more comfortable.

Analogue triggers.

If you were to add one or two buttons on the underside/inside of the 'prongs' for your middle/ring fingers you'd be laughing.

PS3 pad has analogue triggers :-/

TomCo

Something like this, maybe in black.

The Brianoh

Its not unusual for a PC gamepad to have two buttons on the underside for your ring fingers. That means you have your thumb and 3 of your fingers with something to do. My biggest problem with the 360 controller is that the bumper buttons aren't that easy to press. On the PS3 its easy to hold a finger over each bumper and trigger but on the 360 pad I end up using my index finger for both.

ShiverinEskimo

thebman wrote: »

PS3 pad has analogue triggers :-/

I meant that the analogue triggers on the 360 were better in that they seem more analogue/sensitive to movement.

Kinetic^

Xbox 360 controller but with a 100 times better d-pad. That's the only thing I can fault it on.

k8bcly

i have never been more confused in my life!!!
im doing this project too and sorry for sounding like a retard but wat is a d-pad??
i very rarely play games and when i do im realy bad at them!!!
im screwed in this project!!!:(

Vegeta

k8bcly wrote: »

i have never been more confused in my life!!!
im doing this project too and sorry for sounding like a retard but wat is a d-pad??
i very rarely play games and when i do im realy bad at them!!!
im screwed in this project!!!:(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-pad

It's the cross shaped bit on a games controller. Usually operated by the left thumb and controls the movement of on screen characters.

thebman

k8bcly wrote: »

i have never been more confused in my life!!!
im doing this project too and sorry for sounding like a retard but wat is a d-pad??
i very rarely play games and when i do im realy bad at them!!!
im screwed in this project!!!:(

lol the Dpad is the circle part of a 360 controller on the left side below the analog stick.

It can be pressed in 4 directions and diagonally.

Here's a pic with an arrow pointing at it:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/360%20d%20pad/AgentBBJ/microsoft-xbox-360-wireless-control.jpg

thewheel2.0

D-pad is short for directional pad.

http://www.everyjoe.com/files/608/2008/05/dpad.jpg

Important link

k8bcly

tanxx
at least that makes sense :D

thebman

k8bcly wrote: »

tanxx
at least that makes sense :D

lol yeah most things do in gaming to be fair. They rarely name thing the obfusucation device :P

Just ask if you have any other questions. I'm subbed to this thread (like all threads I post on) so I'll get email updates and others will be sure to answer too in the unlikely event that I don't know something or it looks like I encrypted my post :pac:

Oh and does this include handheld console controls? Reread the original post and can't see if it is just home console controllers or whether the DS and PSP are included.

smooch71

Vegeta

Smooch that's a horrible thing, the analog sticks on the PS controllers have always been an after thought and are in a very awkward position for my hands.

I also find them too free moving and sloppy, if ya get me.

Would love 2 Game Cube sticks in the 360 controller position

smooch71

Vegeta wrote: »

Smooch that's a horrible thing, the analog sticks on the PS controllers have always been an after thought and are in a very awkward position for my hands.

I also find them too free moving and sloppy, if ya get me.

Would love 2 Game Cube sticks in the 360 controller position

Hey, I thought it was pretty cool!

I hear ya on the Gamecube sticks though.

Shryke

The 360 controller is great and a big improvement on the first Xbox controller. I would say the best controllers outside this generation were the Gamecube and The Dreamcast. Both of them fit like a glove. The GC even to this day, if I hold it it's just damn comfortable.

seraphimvc

totally GC,or n64's controller the first time i have this in mind:

'this pad is built for me hands!!!'

pure awesomeness Nintendo.

p/s:btw,DS's pad s*cks :(buttons too small!!

Vegeta

smooch71 wrote: »

Hey, I thought it was pretty cool!

I hear ya on the Gamecube sticks though.

Don't get me wrong I prefer the face buttons on the PS controllers and the d-pad. I just don't like the orientation of the sticks and how they feel.

Shryke wrote: »

The 360 controller is great and a big improvement on the first Xbox controller. I would say the best controllers outside this generation were the Gamecube and The Dreamcast. Both of them fit like a glove. The GC even to this day, if I hold it it's just damn comfortable.

Yeah the Gamecube controller has my favourite stick and is my favourite to hold. Dreamcast was good too (the 360 controller looks like a direct descendant) but the d-pad blistered the bejaysus out of my thumb. The left hand edge is quite raised from the curved surface of the controller and in something frantic like a fighting game it can be rough.

I am with seraphimvc 100% on the DS. Very innovative but have you tried playing one of them without the luxury of being able to leave the DS itself down on something. As I am right handed I use the stylus in my right hand and hold the DS in my left.
There's actually not that much room to grip it because the touchpad screen takes up a lot of the space. I generally get a tiredness/pain/cramp in my left hand if I cant leave the DS on my lap or the table.
Maybe its better for small handed Japanese folk and kids but I would work on making it more ergonomic for this project