Who will you vote for?

BennyLava

Just curious to see how people see themselves voting in the future?

With honest reflection, taking into account all that has happened in the last few years, what political party, if any, you see your self voting for in the future?

probably could do with a poll, but can't add one for some reason.

Liam Byrne

At this stage, I honestly don't know.

FF : Not a hope (but then that was the case even at the last GE)

Greens : Not a hope after their initial u-turn on bed-buddies, and then last weekend

FG : Would have considered them, but they were weak on TD salary & pension reductions, alternatives to NAMA, and many of them actually clapped J O'D last week

Labour : Gilmore did well last week, and is a strong leader, but is still too close to union mentality; while we do need support for workers against the profit-is-king extreme capitalists of this world, it should be a general worker-driven legislation rather than unions and benchmarking and closed shops

SF : Not a hope

So it'll probably be an Independent, but that depends on the candidates on offer at the time, and what they stand for. Unfortunately, a few independents won't be able to stop the rot.

turgon

My choice of party isnt based on who I like, its simply based on the least worst. It operates on a system of elimination.

I wont be voting for Fianna Fail or the Greens. I think that FF have screwed this country over too much. Their policies during the boom years were at times awful, and their demise now is partly them backtracking on the lavish expenditure they built up to woo the electorate. I have lost fate in the Greens since the weekend. I think NAMA, with the all important "LTEV" scam, is in-justifiable no matter how many concessions you're getting on the side.

The other choices are Labour, Sinn Fein and Fine Gael.

Consider now that the biggest problem this country is facing is its huge budget deficit. When picking a party it is essential to choose one that will try and remedy this colossal debt. Given that we spend 41 billion, or nearly 70%, of our budget on Public Sector wages and Social Welfare its essential to choose a party that will tackle these areas.

And thats where we eliminate Labour and Sinn Fein. These two parties are completely unwilling to rationalize Social Welfare and wages. Its just not going to happen, and even Eamon Gilmore has admitted this. So their being in power will only prolong what is inevitable: fiscal responsibility and playing hard with those whose greed drives them to demand higher wages in a recession.

So by act of elimination we are left with Fine Gael. Love him or (mostly) hate him, Enda Kenny is the leader of the only party in Ireland with any chance of getting this country on its feet. I know its not nice to hear but its the truth.

Pride Fighter

Free market capitalism has failed. Right wing parties such as Fine Gael and Fianna Fail are representative of that ideology. I think a strong left is what is needed to get us out of this hole. As a result the Labour party will get my vote. FG are atrocious on economics matters, their bad bank idea is useless, they advocated relaxing of stamp duty in their last election manifesto. Had that happened more people would have bought houses in 2007 and more people would be in negative equity. As bad as FF are FG are worse.

As for people saying Labour wont cut, they will, and they have to. Its just they will cut the wages of the better off and not the poorest in society.

turgon

Pride Fighter wrote: »

As for people saying Labour wont cut, they will, and they have to. Its just they will cut the wages of the better off and not the poorest in society.

Erm, the only problem being that the Exchequer doesn't actually pay the wages of these "better off," and so cutting said wages wont don anything to help plug the budget deficit.

Of course your solution is to tax our way out of it. Its a classic knee jerk reaction that conveniently ignores many points. Firstly we get about €20 billion in income tax as it stands. So to get anywhere near fixing the debt we would want to double the rates. So a 40% lower rate and 82% higher rate. Not that your tax revenue would actually double, it more likely to fall as skilled labourers flee the country to somewhere where they will be rewarded for their efforts.

Increasing VAT wont get us anywhere, accept Northern Ireland.

And how about increasing corporation tax? Well, that speaks for itself.

"You cant tax your way out of a recession."

rugbyman

Liam Byrne wrote: »

At this stage, I honestly don't know.

FF : Not a hope (but then that was the case even at the last GE)

Greens : Not a hope after their initial u-turn on bed-buddies, and then last weekend

FG : Would have considered them, but they were weak on TD salary & pension reductions, alternatives to NAMA, and many of them actually clapped J O'D last week

Labour : Gilmore did well last week, and is a strong leader, but is still too close to union mentality; while we do need support for workers against the profit-is-king extreme capitalists of this world, it should be a general worker-driven legislation rather than unions and benchmarking and closed shops

SF : Not a hope

So it'll probably be an Independent, but that depends on the candidates on offer at the time, and what they stand for. Unfortunately, a few independents won't be able to stop the rot.

Nice logic Liam, but if there is not a viable independent in your constituency, then I suggest your vote choice should have factored into it , an element of Government change. perhaps even if there is a viable independent.

regards, Rugbyman

Biggins

As the current lot are useless, I will be choosing an independent.

P.S. Hell will freeze over before I even think of voting Green ever.

maynooth_rules

I am completly disillusioned with politics in this country at the moment and there is no party presently in the Dail i would vote for. It would have been Fine Gael up until their patty response to John O'Donoghue and the fact they applauded his self serving speech. I voted Greens the last time, and I am disgusted that i did. The two public representatives from my county are Mj Nolan of FF and Mary White of the Greens, and its a battle over which is worse. Its a sorry state of affairs in this country at the moment

Lockstep

Labour for me.

FF/Greens; not a chance
FG; I dislike their policies, they're graduate tax scheme was an utter joke and their bad bank proposals are a bit stupid. Still, they'll get a high preference off me as they have some merit.
SF; Depends on the candidate. I'm not against them per se but they have some strange politicians.

Socialists/SWP/PBP; not a hope in hell. No way am I voting for Trots.

Rb

FG and then Lab/FF depending on who's put forward.

I like FG, not mad about Lab and certainly not a fan of FF. I will never, ever, ever vote for the Greens again and certainly will never give SF even the slightest nod, I'd rather another 50 years of FF than one term of SF in this country.

Dr. Baltar

The Pirate Party (if enough members are gathered and it becomes a proper party) will be getting my first vote, with Labour second.

dvpower

Biggins wrote: »

As the current lot are useless, I will be choosing an independent.

P.S. Hell will freeze over before I even think of voting Green ever.

The problem with Independents is that they are mostly either single issue or are just focussed on their local issues (and will sell their vote for a new road or a few local jobs).

They do not make for a stable administration and given the state we're in, we need a stable government with a strong mandate.

therewillbe

I was always FF&SF.I would never vote fg.I have lost all respect for ff and dont know who I will vote for.I always voted in the past and am at a lose as to who if anyone I will vote for in the future.I respect the vote but am a lost soul at present.They are all the same in my opinion at the moment.

Liam Byrne

rugbyman wrote: »

Nice logic Liam, but if there is not a viable independent in your constituency, then I suggest your vote choice should have factored into it , an element of Government change. perhaps even if there is a viable independent.

Oh, no question there, rugbyman; that's implicit in the difference in phrasing between "not a hope" and "don't know".....

And the problem with an independent candidate is that they could pull a Healy-Rae; that will be one of my first questions, but even then - like the Green that got my vote last time - there's no guarantees.

It's a real pain that something as fundamental as the vote comes down to a choice between "not a hope", "don't know" and "as long as he/she won't shaft me".....

ShooterSF

If there's a Pirate Party rep in meath I'll give them my vote. Turgon makes a great point about the current parties and I would give FG mine if the PP doesn't run.
Shame the liberals.ie is lining up as a pressure group as I would have voted for them if they went into politics.

dlofnep

Sinn Féin for me - A party that despite all the stick, stands up for the working class and works hard in the community. I would never give Fine Gael a vote. Enda Kenny is a joke. He's not competent enough to be Taoiseach, not to mention a racist.

My family is a Fianna Fáil family, but they will never get my second vote after their last run. Borderline worthless.

I was impressed by Gilmore, and I'd give him a vote for Taoiseach as a realistic alternative to what's currently there. I disagree on a few issues with Labour as a party, but in comparison to FF and FG, they are a better alternative.

Biggins

dvpower wrote: »

The problem with Independents is that they are mostly either single issue or are just focussed on their local issues (and will sell their vote for a new road or a few local jobs).

They do not make for a stable administration and given the state we're in, we need a stable government with a strong mandate.

Very true but at least some are still campaigning about single issues that effect us all (unlike the ones in an organisation more so that say they are but soon forget about you!).
Also, its a false impression that ALL independent are JUST campaigning on single issues.
There is few out there (like myself) that just don't like the current parties and have to start somewhere!

Euro_Kraut

Biggins wrote: »

As the current lot are useless, I will be choosing an independent.

Eh aren't you running as an independent? You will be voting for yourself wont you?

irish_bob

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Free market capitalism has failed. Right wing parties such as Fine Gael and Fianna Fail are representative of that ideology. I think a strong left is what is needed to get us out of this hole. As a result the Labour party will get my vote. FG are atrocious on economics matters, their bad bank idea is useless, they advocated relaxing of stamp duty in their last election manifesto. Had that happened more people would have bought houses in 2007 and more people would be in negative equity. As bad as FF are FG are worse.

As for people saying Labour wont cut, they will, and they have to. Its just they will cut the wages of the better off and not the poorest in society.

gilmore has said he will not cut public sector wages any further , how do you reconcile this statement with your claim that labour will cut the wages of the better off

thebman

irish_bob wrote: »

gilmore has said he will not cut public sector wages any further , how do you reconcile this statement with your claim that labour will cut the wages of the better off

Same way the greens entered government with FF :pac:

Biggins

Originally Posted by Biggins
As the current lot are useless, I will be choosing an independent.

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Eh aren't you running as an independent? You will be voting for yourself wont you?

My error, I should have added "the current lot OF PARTIES"

dresden8

turgon wrote: »

Erm, the only problem being that the Exchequer doesn't actually pay the wages of these "better off,"

Can you pm this to jimmmy and irish_bob please?

Liam Byrne

turgon wrote: »

Erm, the only problem being that the Exchequer doesn't actually pay the wages of these "better off," and so cutting said wages wont don anything to help plug the budget deficit.

Fair point, but if those "at the top" didn't pay themselves so much, then a number of things could happen:

1) One guy on €500,000 a year could pay himself €400,000, and not lay off 3 staff
2) If all the head bankers took the cut, they could avoid the suggested raising of their rates beyond the ECB
3) The Exchequer does pay the OTT wages and expenses of policitians, heads of the HSE, etc
4) Cutting the wages of those people would require companies to make less "profit", thereby enabling lower prices, thereby improving the economy
5) The undercurrent of unrest re unjustified bonuses and payments would ease somewhat, improving the overall view and acceptance of people who are currently being hit left, right and centre with extra taxes and costs

None of the above are major, that's true, but in the current climate "every little helps".

dvpower

ShooterSF wrote: »

If there's a Pirate Party rep in meath I'll give them my vote. Turgon makes a great point about the current parties and I would give FG mine if the PP doesn't run.

Either way thats a FG vote (after the PP get eliminated after the first round and your vote gets transferred).

ShooterSF

dvpower wrote: »

Either way thats a FG vote (after the PP get eliminated after the first round and your vote gets transferred).

And so on down while the usual FF heads get in in Meath.

Euro_Kraut

Biggins wrote: »

My error, I should have added "the current lot OF PARTIES"

I think it in the interests of transparency etc it would be no harm if you stated that you yourself intend to run as an independent candidate. You are not just some man on the street but some with a vested interest in getting elected. No harm in that but you should be upfront about it.

After all that one of the reasons you are getting into politics now - to bring a new level of honesty into Irish political discourse.

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

gilmore has said he will not cut public sector wages any further , how do you reconcile this statement with your claim that labour will cut the wages of the better off

Where exactly did Eamon Gilmore say this?? He hasnt. Labour are well aware of the need to reduce the PS wage bill. It will start at the top though. This will be coupled with serious reform in the sector.

irish_bob

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Where exactly did Eamon Gilmore say this?? He hasnt. Labour are well aware of the need to reduce the PS wage bill. It will start at the top though. This will be coupled with serious reform in the sector.

he has said in the past ten days that thier should be no further cuts in public sector pay , he also described the newspaper articles on the public sector as scurrilous

dvpower

dlofnep wrote: »

Enda Kenny is a joke. He's not competent enough to be Taoiseach, not to mention a racist.

He's not competent enough to be a racist? Now that's damning.:D

ednwireland

i was always labour, but we needa change in sw donegal and the only party that has a chance are SF, so i would be SF first and FG 2nd (and i dont like saying that but i cant see any option otherwise the status quo will survive)

and why havent we had a by election why isnt there a limit on the time some crook can hold european and dail seats

Funglegunk

dlofnep wrote: »

Sinn Féin for me - A party that despite all the stick, stands up for the working class and works hard in the community.

Sinn Féin do deserve credit for this alright. When someone says they're voting Sinn Féin for something other than ideological reasons its usually because they built a cycle path/resurfaced a road etc. etc. at their constituents request, and quickly.

That said, I'd never vote for them. Am pretty disillusioned with the current crop altogether tbh. Sort of leaning towards Labour, not because they have done anything to garner my vote but merely because they are the best of a truly awful bunch (Cowen?! Kenny?!), but am not much of a lefty so...meh

Taxipete29

irish_bob wrote: »

he has said in the past ten days that thier should be no further cuts in public sector pay , he also described the newspaper articles on the public sector as scurrilous

What he said was he was opposed to across the board pay cuts. Thats quite different. This is the speech he gave to SIPTU on the 6th of October.

http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/1254821599380338.html

The PS wage bill will have to be cut no matter who gets into power

Euro_Kraut

Taxipete29 wrote: »

The PS wage bill will have to be cut no matter who gets into power

True. And the Unions will find it a lot harder to have a fight with a Labour Minister for Finance.

blinding

Sinn Féin though I would like a leadership change. Its time for Gerry and the rest of the old guard to move on.
I would like a leadership contest for his replacement so that the next leader can set out Sinn Féins vision for the future.

After that Labour are the best of a bad lot.

Biggins

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I think it in the interests of transparency etc it would be no harm if you stated that you yourself intend to run as an independent candidate. You are not just some man on the street but some with a vested interest in getting elected. No harm in that but you should be upfront about it.

After all that one of the reasons you are getting into politics now - to bring a new level of honesty into Irish political discourse.

Your quite right.

If the opportunity arises (its about timing with me) I intend to try and start making a difference.
I also wish to state for the (public) record that to be a TD position should be by the holder, treated as a vocational one and not a career one. Its a service to the country and its people.
With that in mind, I feel the money that TDs are paid is far too much.
If by some miracle, I was some day (I don't expect my first try to be successful to be honest) to represent the Irish people, if the earnings and perks were still at around the same numbers, a good deal 20/30% of it will be donated to a certain national crises centre in Dublin and Crumlins Children's hospital.

ninty9er

Was talking to a guy lastnight who is closely related to an independent senator and reckons that Fianna Fáil will be re-elected if there are big cuts this year and the economy is back in growth by the next election.

As happy and all as I was to hear that someone would vote for us, I don't think it would be good for the party to be re-elected at the next election. However, it shows there are still people out there who would have no qualms voting for FF again.

MeatProduct

How many of us actually feel accurately represented by those we voted for? I certainly don't when I voted for the Greens.

So I think our system of goverment has failed us. Not only are we not getting an average of what the individuals of this country want we are being treated with total disregard and disrespect.

This leads me to believe that our system of deomcracy works fine when no humans are involved with the system, but once people are involved (as they have to be of course) then it doesn't work very well.

Massive reform won't cut it anymore. There needs to be fundamental change in governance.

Nick

Dob74

Will be voting for Labour. The only major party to have an alternative vision to our neo-liberal government.
Hopefully FF and Fg will merge, so we can have a proper left/right politics.

Overheal

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Free market capitalism has failed.

I'd love to read the detailed logic behind this supposition.

dvpower

ninty9er wrote: »

Was talking to a guy lastnight who is closely related to an independent senator and reckons that Fianna Fáil will be re-elected if there are big cuts this year and the economy is back in growth by the next election.

Was he drunk?

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Was talking to a guy lastnight who is closely related to an independent senator and reckons that Fianna Fáil will be re-elected if there are big cuts this year and the economy is back in growth by the next election.

Maybe we might have been "back in growth" by the next election if we hadn't been forced to pour money into the Anglo cesspit and borrow accordingly.

And while I don't have a crystal ball and a large number of Irish people (and not just FF supporters, BTW) seem to vote based on ridiculous and blinkered criteria - Ahern, Lowry, Cooper-Flynn, Healy-Rae & possibly O'Donoghue - I don't think the above is the case.

Maybe if they get lucky with NAMA, and if they finally weed out the waste and corruption, and finally offer fair and competent government people will view it as having turned the required corner, but many people will be intelligent enough to see that - no matter what "growth" will hopefully exist by then, we would be in a far better position at that stage if the economy hadn't been mismanaged and the waste and corruption had been supervised and stopped the moment it raised its ugly head.

Red Alert

I will vote FG next time. I learned my lesson by voting for Eamonn Ryan and will not be caught out like that again. FG are the only party who will not enter government with FF, I'm still not sure about Labour since Spring went in with Reynolds.

thebman

Dob74 wrote: »

Will be voting for Labour. The only major party to have an alternative vision to our neo-liberal government.
Hopefully FF and Fg will merge, so we can have a proper left/right politics.

I don't think our government is neo-liberal, just full of close relationships of a not good kind.

All our regulators seem to be cosy regulators in that they know the people they are regulating too well and have a sure paddy I know you didn't mean it, I'll let it slide this time attitude.

meditraitor

FG are just FF with a different color shirt,

The only real alternative is to have a labour led government,

Dont fall into the trap of voting for FG just to get rid of FF, they are doplegangers.

I will be voting for Labour, but being honest I can only see a FG led coalition in our future. Unless people get clever which is never going to happen, we are Irish and stupid(funny,drunk,ugly ) in the majority

Shane-1

Sinn Fein, a real alternative to the stale politics of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael. A vote for a fairer and a better Ireland for everyone.

Kev_ps3

Id vote for Sinn Fein if they went a left wing, pro-immigration working class party!

Sand

Will be voting for Labour. The only major party to have an alternative vision to our neo-liberal government.

Lets summarise Fianna Fails policy, particularly since 2004 when McCreevy was deposed and the strings of the public purse were torn loose.

- Higher social welfare spending
- Higher public sector wages
- Higher spending in general
- Appeasement of Public Partners
- Cutting taxes

Now lets review Labours "alternative" vision

- Higher social welfare spending
- Higher public sector wages
- Higher spending in general
- Appeasement of Public Partners
- Cutting taxes

Yeah, they're a real breath of fresh air in Irish politics...

irish_bob

Sand wrote: »

Lets summarise Fianna Fails policy, particularly since 2004 when McCreevy was deposed and the strings of the public purse were torn loose.

- Higher social welfare spending
- Higher public sector wages
- Higher spending in general
- Appeasement of Public Partners
- Cutting taxes

Now lets review Labours "alternative" vision

- Higher social welfare spending
- Higher public sector wages
- Higher spending in general
- Appeasement of Public Partners
- Cutting taxes

Yeah, they're a real breath of fresh air in Irish politics...

as dev once said , fianna fail are the labour party in ireland

Taxipete29

Sand wrote: »

Lets summarise Fianna Fails policy, particularly since 2004 when McCreevy was deposed and the strings of the public purse were torn loose.

- Higher social welfare spending
- Higher public sector wages
- Higher spending in general
- Appeasement of Public Partners
- Cutting taxes

Now lets review Labours "alternative" vision

- Higher social welfare spending
- Higher public sector wages
- Higher spending in general
- Appeasement of Public Partners
- Cutting taxes

Yeah, they're a real breath of fresh air in Irish politics...

Where do Labour say higher ps wages? Where do they say cut taxs?
Your source please??

Taxipete29

Red Alert wrote: »

I will vote FG next time. I learned my lesson by voting for Eamonn Ryan and will not be caught out like that again. FG are the only party who will not enter government with FF, I'm still not sure about Labour since Spring went in with Reynolds.

Gilmore has stated clearly they wont go into government with FF.

ninty9er

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Gilmore has stated clearly they wont go into government with FF.

So did Trevor Sargent;)