Swine Flu Vaccine.

Turtwig

I'd thought I'd put this one out here, to see how rational the folk here really are.:p

The question is simple, if you are offered the swine flu vaccine will you take it?
If so, why?
If not, why not?

(I'm more curious about the 'why not' reasons - They better be rational )

My reasoning is simple.
As far as I am aware I have no underlying health conditions that would put me at a higher risk than normal. Given that the flu affects younger folk more than anyone else (in the US 79% of all cases were of people under 30) and that the vaccine will only really be effective when somewhere between 30%-75% of the herd are innoculated. It seems a gimme to me : Take it to have a higher chance of survival and to increase the chances of survival for others especially those more vulnerable than you - Vaccines depend on group cooperation.:)


Edit : Dammit, how do I make the poll names known, so we can count just the A&A folk.

ShooterSF

Unless you have an unnatural fear of needles why would you refuse?

bnt

I'm voting an informed no, but not because of any anti-vaccine opinions. I understand the rationale behind mass vaccination as a means of eradicating a disease, which has worked in the past (smallpox, polio). However, I have medical instructions to avoid any flu vaccinations and consult my doctor before getting anything else.

I would have some minor concerns about this new Swine Flu vaccine, which has been produced extremely quickly (faster than expected), and is being released to market without what I would consider adequate testing.

Turtwig

bnt wrote: »

I'm voting an informed no, but not because of any anti-vaccine opinions. I understand the rationale behind mass vaccination as a means of eradicating a disease, which has worked in the past (smallpox, polio). However, I have medical instructions to avoid any flu vaccinations and consult my doctor before getting anything else.

I would have some minor concerns about this new Swine Flu vaccine, which has been produced extremely quickly (faster than expected), and is being released to market without what I would consider adequate testing.

Excellent stuff, if you can't take the vaccine then that's more than an adequate reason bnt:)
I share those concerns too, but I have to say that because the vaccine is so similar to previous vaccines and that the people first to get it are it's approvers, I'd have to say my concern is very very very minor.

You're the only 'NO' so far and your rationale is good..so c'mon lads/laddies keep it up:)

No - supplies are limited at the moment and I am not in the at risk profile.

Anyways a few days off work watching TV wouldn't be too bad. You can't get sick at the weekend, can you?

joshor123

people would say no because they find no need for it (alond with myself). why would you its njo big deal...how many people in ireland killed...3 maybe...4?...in that amount of time how m,any people killed from normal flu?the vaccine was rished...not a chance of getting it

Dades

I wonder if it's kosher...

Coriolanus

I put down I don't know for lack of a "I Don't care enough either way to get my ass to the doctor" option.

bnt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCzbw4or19g

stevejazzx

I believe that it's not that bad as a virus (obviously some caveats apply). I've also heard the company who made it are facing some lawsuits over other activities. We had a couple of oncologists over for dinner recently and they told us that a considerable portion of their friends, many of whom are in the medical profession would not take it. I can't say that that doesn't influence me. I hate anecdotal evidence but there you go.... My overall opinion however is that, for the moment, people should listen to their GP's - far too much conspiratorial tripe out there about it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8274374.stm

aidan24326

I see no reason why I should take the vaccine at this time. I'm not at great risk of contracting swine flu, and even if I did, I'm not at all likely to die from it. To me it's just another round of scaremongering (remeber how bird flu was going to kill us all, and SARS, and foot and mouth and whatever else you're having) with the Pharma companies licking their lips at the thought of all those millions of lucrative vaccine doses they'll be producing. The death rate for swine flu in the USA is apparently 3 times lower than for regular flu strains, so I'm not sure why we're even talking about it really.

Turtwig

stevejazzx wrote: »

I believe that it's not that bad as a virus (obviously some caveats apply). I've also heard the company who made it are facing some lawsuits over other activities. We had a couple of oncologists over for dinner recently and they told us that a considerable portion of their friends, many of whom are in the medical profession would not take it. I can't say that that doesn't influence me. I hate anecdotal evidence but there you go.... My overall opinion however is that, for the moment, people should listen to their GP's - far too much conspiratorial tripe out there about it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8274374.stm

Sadly, it seems to be that scientists in the medical profession are no better than scientists in other disciplines - we suck at the getting the message out.
Most medical workers are actually misinformed over this, for instance, anecodatal though it may be, one my house mates who's a doctor was totally against the vaccine and said the flu was overrated after a brief hospital seminar on the virus...opinion has shifted to the exact opposite.
It's obviously not as nasty as H5N1 (Bird flu) that has the potential to demolish millions but it is still nasty especially if the person is obese or pregnant. (Supposedly 7 times more likely to die for the former and 9 times for the latter)

aidan24326 wrote: »

I see no reason why I should take the vaccine at this time. I'm not at great risk of contracting swine flu, and even if I did, I'm not at all likely to die from it. To me it's just another round of scaremongering (remeber how bird flu was going to kill us all, and SARS, and foot and mouth and whatever else you're having) with the Pharma companies licking their lips at the thought of all those millions of lucrative vaccine doses they'll be producing. The death rate for swine flu in the USA is apparently 3 times lower than for regular flu strains, so I'm not sure why we're even talking about it really.

Depending on your age, your risk is reasonably high compared to normal flu.
Bird flu is a very nasty sucker, not overrated in the slightest! Statistics mean nothing unless you take them into context:
Flu strikes in winter; it is not winter yet.
Flu mainly kills off elderly people who, not meaning to be offensive, were just waiting to go.
Swine flu infections numbers over 70% of those under 30 years of age!
The reason why it doesn't seem to infect the older population is because they seem to have some inherent form of immunity from past H1N1 flu vaccines. So getting a vaccine now, may help prime your immune system for future H1N1 strain outbreaks.
It isn't really the death rate you should be looking at though. Almost (or over?)40% of all infectees are in need of ventilation. Imagine how bad the ICU's in Ireland will get if that trend follows over here.... think about the amount of cancelled operations etc etc...

Yes I'm biased towards the vaccines, and I can't really understand how people would be against them. So I'm urging you guys/gals to read up on the actual virus and the vaccine from reliable source..don't follow the mainstream media as they quite frankly have been shtye.
Leave the science to the science media - get reading folks.

The whole reason I created this thread is to raise consciousness as I consider most atheists to be by far the more open minded group (yes I know some are just closed minded 'deniers').Please read up on this stuff and make an informed decision.

doctoremma

I don't consider myself at extreme risk of dying from "swine" flu so wouldn't take it before those who were at risk got their chance. However, the environment I work in means I might be it might be enforced at some point.

pH

Here's Bill Maher (recent recipient of the Richard Dawkins award given by the AAI) on this topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB5DLf1Qt78

Beruthiel

I see no need to take it and normally don't take drugs unless I think I need them.
I do not come under the people most at risk and as I have a the constitution of an ox I see no need for it.
I'll most likely live forever.

Yours, self medicatingly...
B

aidan24326

Malty_T wrote: »

Leave the science to the science media - get reading folks.

I presume you mean in peer-reviewed journals and the like, because the so-called 'science writers' in the newspapers are often as ill-informed as anyone. You simply can't trust hardly anything in the papers these days that pertains to scientific matters and particularly healthcare, yet this is where most people get their info from.

Turtwig

Beruthiel wrote: »

I see no need to take it and normally don't take drugs unless I think I need them.
I do not come under the people most at risk and as I have a the constitution of an ox I see no need for it.
I'll most likely live forever.

Yours, self medicatingly...
B

Your missed the point though vaccines aren't meant for an individual they're meant to be taken by a group to build up so called 'herd immunity'. Some people in the high risk group will not actually be allowed to take the vaccine.
Vaccine rely on those at low risk to inoculate themselves to save those at high risk..

Coriolanus

Ok, that's something I hadn't heard before. Thanks Malty, good informative vid.

Dave!

*bump*

Didn't see this thread first time around

I'm not sure if I'll be offered the vaccine, but I'll certainly have no trouble taking it if I am.

My aunt works in a GP's surgery in Spain, and she was telling me that she wouldn't take it -- and is in fact advising people in the surgery not to take it, especially pregnant women

I've argued with her over it, but her concerns seem to be (a) it's been rushed through and not been properly tested, and (b) the thalidomide scandal in the 50's

The former is one thing (I don't see it as a problem myself, since the vaccine is so similar to all the other flu vaccines), but the latter is so irrational and silly that it hurts

mardybumbum

As a health science student I was actually offered the vaccine through the college doctor.
There are two reasons why I didn't accept the offer.

1. I am quite sure I contracted the virus.
2. I slept in that morning.

achtungbarry

I've had the vaccine and the only side effects were a slightly sore arm and the fact that I haven't got swine flu or given it to anyone around me. No brainer to me.

Joey the lips

Dades wrote: »

I wonder if it's kosher...

I head if you have an intollerence to breaking of bread to avoid it....;)


ps, for the record i have now had both doses. I always reason with vaccination that while the risks of mgetting something might be mon and the risk of a reaction might be min how would I have felt if I got the virus it caused damage and I did nothing to prevent it.

After all life insurence in on the premis. We are dead so why do we care. Simple we care for the people around us... Get the vaccination. Loads of people in africa believe "Spirits" protect them from HIV. What does an athiest believe.... That they are infallable to that mumbo jumbo.

Galvasean

No, but for different reasons.

doctoremma

Galvasean wrote: »

No, but for different reasons.

Golly, I have never come across this before. I wonder if many vegetarians know about this?

Antbert

If there wasn't a shortage of them or anything and it wasn't expensive, then yes. Immunity against an unpleasant ailment? Why not.

I wouldn't go out of my way to get it though.

EDIT: Just read the shark thing. Now probably not.

LittleTimmae

*Jumpin up and down* [Is there any other kind?]

I have Asthma. I go to the clinic in D15 and had the Celvapan jab. While I am there and in between me asking the Nurse who tore the only vein i had left...lol... When will I have to get the second j-Stab? She, Mrs Mc Nurse said... There is no second jab, as i look around [No comment] The Super Nurse! said, The W.H.O. said only one jab is necessary.Please ignore the literature [A NURSE STANDING] I timidly [Is that a word?] said, are you sure? she said if the W.H.O. say so then it is true... *Jesus wept*

So, Like a fat pelican i wander off into the sunset and laugh to myself how i beat the hairy white skinned disease like a wet fart slipping out through the togs of a G.A.A footballer as he fell on the 21 yard line...

Then, Low and behold they send me 2 Txt messages saying i should book my second J-Stab. So, being the super-conformist-Pelican that i have become, I ring the HSE and ask them what should i do? #Should i get the second J-Stab or should i listen to the Nurse? They answered; I Don't know, Did you speak to your doctor? I said, I didn't speak to my doctor before i got the first J-Stab. She said, Sorry I'm not a medical person I can't answer your question. I said, who can I speak to? Who can tell me do i actually need to take the second J-Stab? She repeated, do you have an underlying condition?... I said yes, I am an Asthmatic. She replied, did you speak to your GP... I wept...

*Do i need to take the second J-Stab? If i don't what will the consequences be? Did i need to take the first one? What would have happened if i didn't take the first one? What would happen if i didn't take the second one? What do i do?*

**Don't say, go to your GP [Unless you are a GP [Please supply name in PM]] Don't say, take it just in case, unless you are taking it... [I will take it with you... yes live... lol]** Does anyone REALLY know what we are taking or why/what are we doing?

*Comment* Ba mhaith liom...

Turtwig

I'm pretty sure giving out medical advice is strictly forbidden. No ways about it, visit your GP and talk to him/her about it. Sorry.

LittleTimmae

Malty T,

I suppose, I wasn't expecting an answer, but thanks for your response.

It is difficult to answer my Rant, and a Rant "I suppose" It is???

Not knocking any doctor etc...[In fact, I think my doc was/is the greatest in my home county:)] *I've been gone years...*

But, yes there is a but! Can anyone answer any of my previous questions?

Probably not in a forum? But literature that is not open to Interpretation would help...

Thanks...

Turtwig

LittleTimmae wrote: »

Malty T,

I suppose, I wasn't expecting an answer, but thanks for your response.

It is difficult to answer my Rant, and a Rant "I suppose" It is???

Not knocking any doctor etc...[In fact, I think my doc was/is the greatest in my home county:)] *I've been gone years...*

But, yes there is a but! Can anyone answer any of my previous questions?

Probably not in a forum? But literature that is not open to Interpretation would help...

Thanks...

Which 'question' exactly do you want answered? Medical advice is a definite no no. We can help you with anything that doesn't constitute medical advice though.:)

robindch

LittleTimmae wrote: »

*Do i need to take the second J-Stab? [...] What do i do?

As Malty points out, boards.ie has a strict policy of not permitting anybody to hand out medical advice and I would STRONGLY advise you not to request it here, anywhere.

If you have a medical query, either ring something like the VHI Healthline (I think on 1850 226622), or go see your GP.

Sam Vimes

The answer to your question is: go to your gp. No one on this website is qualified to answer your question, even the ones who say they are. If you have some reason for not wanting to go to your gp, get a new gp

Turtwig

Very blunt and to the point Sam.:)

stevejazzx

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8448080.stm

A bit off topic:
VACCINE UPTAKE
Around a third of those in initial priority groups - including those with underlying health problems - have had the swine flu vaccine
Roughly one in five pregnant women have been immunised
Among healthcare workers, 37% have had the vaccine
So far 86,000 under fives have been vaccinated


This is in the UK - these figures are nowhere near enough to create the called 'herd immunity' are they?

Dave!

That's quite low indeed

Wonder what the figures are in other countries

I'd imagine they're even lower in the US, since they have those sh*tepipes from 'Generation Rescue' spreading lies through the media

robindch

Dave! wrote: »

those sh*tepipes from 'Generation Rescue' spreading lies through the media

Ugh, what a revolting outfit -- I see they appoint "rescue angels" to spread the good news :eek:

Ghost Buster

Well. I wasnt going to get the jab as my health is fine but I ended up getting it.
My kid has very mild asthma and is prone to a dodgy chest and so we were advised to get him vaccinated. When I brought him along to the clinic they asked me if I wanted it so I said "yeah, what the heck".
My wife works in the medical profession and so she was getting it as part of her job. We had no issues with it and are fully informed.

changes

I think it is 2 doses of calvapan but if you get the pandemrix its only one dose..... don't quote me in it though

The Mad Hatter

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Well. I wasnt going to get the jab as my health is fine but I ended up getting it.
My kid has very mild asthma and is prone to a dodgy chest and so we were advised to get him vaccinated. When I brought him along to the clinic they asked me if I wanted it so I said "yeah, what the heck".
My wife works in the medical profession and so she was getting it as part of her job. We had no issues with it and are fully informed.

I got mine the same way. (Sister, though, not child.)

I couldn't lift my left arm above shoulder height for a couple of days afterwards. Still glad to have been inoculated, though.

Ghost Buster

changes wrote: »

I think it is 2 doses of calvapan but if you get the pandemrix its only one dose..... don't quote me in it though

My wife had the Pandemrix through the hospital she works in. My boy (4) and i had the two dose calvapan. No pain, no side effects. Absolutely effortless!:):D