This is Crazy

JONJO THE MISER

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1012/breaking45.htm :mad: its crimes like this is why i support the death penalty.

orourkeda

Just another example of how the criminal justice system does not work.

admiralofthefleet

shocking. attacks on the elderly make my blood boil:mad:

Jesus Wept

Crazy alright.
Shall we debate the death penalty or all express our outrage?

orourkeda

The-Rigger wrote: »

Crazy alright.
Shall we debate the death penalty or all express our outrage?

The death penalty has never worked.

Even Albert Pierrepoint admits this

walshb

No No No. Haven't any of yee heard of rehabilitation and caring and education?
With the right dose of all, these guys can come thru the tunnel and into
the light. Well, in some peoples worlds. In mine, bullet in the ****ing head!

Prof.Badass

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1012/breaking45.htm :mad: its crimes like this is why i support the death penalty.

It's posts like this that make me lose faith in humanity.

Think rationally, not emotionally.

General Zod

walshb wrote: »

No No No. Haven't any of yee heard of rehabilitation and caring and education?
With the right dose of all, these guys can come thru the tunnel and into
the light. Well, in some peoples worlds. In mine, bullet in the ****ing head!

Aye, and we can rehabilitate innocent people back from the dead too!

walshb

vinylmesh wrote: »

It's posts like this that make me lose faith in humanity.

Think rationally, not emotionally.

When a mad dog attacks, we think rationally, and put the beast down!

walshb

General Zod wrote: »

Aye, and we can rehabilitate innocent people back from the dead too!

Well, if guilty, then how are they innocent:p

cosmic

F*cking scum :mad:

biko

Waterford assault investigated

An elderly woman is recovering in hospital today after she was dragged from her home, tied to a post and brutally assaulted by three burglars in Co Waterford at the weekend.
Gardaí in Dungarvan described the incident as one of the “most brutal” attacks they had investigated in recent years.

Three men broke into the 68-year-old woman’s house near Ardmore at about 4.30am on Saturday.
The men are understood to have entered the woman’s bedroom and tied her to the bed. She was then “severely beaten” until she told the intruders where her savings were located, according to gardaí.
The men then dragged the victim into her garden and tied her to a fence before making off with her savings.
The woman, who sustained serious injuries in the attack, managed to free herself and alert the gardaí. She was taken to Waterford Regional Hospital where she is said to be in a stable condition.
Gardaí have appealed to anybody with information to contact them at Dungarvan Garda station at 058-48600.

Speaking on RTÉ's News at One , Garda Inspector Paul Heffernan condemned the attack. "It just beggars belief as to why this lady was subjected to this ordeal," he said.
Gda Insp Heffernan said the area was rural and isolated, and that anything unusual would have been noticed by people, particularly on the main road from Dungarvan to Youghal.
He said the victim was able to give some preliminary descriptions of her attackers, who he described as three males, possibly in their 20s, with one perhaps of larger build than the others.
He said there was no recent history of similar break-ins in the area.

orourkeda

When are they going to bring in the death penalty for parking tickets or not having a tv licence.

KilOit

Read it in heraldAM very shocking stuff i hope the garda find these criminal and they get whats coming to them.... few months in prison then out again

walshb

This pro and anti death penalty debate gets tiresome.

Simple: If this happened to your mother and the scum stood in front
of you and said, "We did it," and you had a loaded gun, then it would take serious
serious restraint to stop you pulling the trigger. Now, you may well be anti death penalty, but the chances are that you would pull that trigger and this would be both rational and emotional. It's innate in all decent people, in all people, for that matter.

JP Liz

makes you ashamed to be Irish when this happens :mad:

culprits should be shot

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

walshb

KilOit wrote: »

Read it in heraldAM very shocking stuff i hope the garda find these criminal and they get whats coming to them.... few months in prison then out again

Oh, and don't forget, if they haven't had an education, they'll get that, and a gym and a trade possibly if it takes their fancy!:mad:

orourkeda

walshb wrote: »

This pro and anti death penalty debate gets tiresome.

Simple: If this happened to your mother and the scum stood in front
of you and said, "We did it," and you had a loaded gun, then it would take serious
serious restraint to stop you pulling the trigger. Now, you may well be anti death penalty, but the chances are that you would pull that trigger and this would be both rational and emotional. It's innate in all decent people, in all people for that matter.

I guarantee you that the vast majority of people wouldnt have the bottle to pull the trigger.

Besides two wrongs dont make a right and murder to satiate your desire for revenge is utter barbarism and makes you worse than the original perpetrators

Oh The Humanity

vinylmesh wrote: »

It's posts like this that make me lose faith in humanity.

Think rationally, not emotionally.

No thank you. I'll think how I see fit. Always supsicious of those who tell others how to think.

'...ohhh....but the death penalty is not justice its just revenge..'

Yes thank you. Nothing wrong with a nice bit of revenge. They should be shot in the b0ll0x and left to bleed out.

Filth is all they are.

General Zod

walshb wrote: »

This pro and anti death penalty debate gets tiresome.

Simple: If this happened to your mother and the scum stood in front
of you and said, "We did it," and you had a loaded gun, then it would take serious
serious restraint to stop you pulling the trigger. Now, you may well be anti death penalty, but the chances are that you would pull that trigger and this would be both rational and emotional. It's innate in all decent people, in all people, for that matter.

Actually, no. Stop projecting your bloodlust onto others.

WindSock

68 is Elderly now? :eek:

WindSock

orourkeda wrote: »

I guarantee you that the vast majority of people wouldnt have the bottle to pull the trigger.

Besides two wrongs dont make a right and murder to satiate your desire for revenge is utter barbarism and makes you worse than the original perpetrators

I'd shoot them in the knackers. But I wouldn't kill them.

General Zod

JP Liz wrote: »

makes you ashamed to be Irish when this happens :mad:

What has this crime, which the likes of happens in every country and civilisation on earth, that makes you ashamed of your nationality?

NothingMan

"Yes they deserve to die, and I hope they burn in hell". Samual .L. Jackson. You can't argue with him really.

orourkeda

WindSock wrote: »

I'd shoot them in the knackers. But I wouldn't kill them.

I bet you wouldnt when push came to shove

WIZE

Catch them and lock them up in Solitary Confinement for a few years

End of

jd007

Pure fookin SCUM!!! They should be tortured!

walshb

orourkeda wrote: »

I guarantee you that the vast majority of people wouldnt have the bottle to pull the trigger.

Besides two wrongs dont make a right and murder to satiate your desire for revenge is utter barbarism and makes you worse than the original perpetrators

So, how exactly would shooting dead say a child killer/rapist who rapes and kills your child make you worse? Enlighten me please? Or, even use the example in the thread title.

And, do take into consideration that the act of doing this is innate in all decent people.

orourkeda

Civilisation as a word and concept should not exist.

Humans have never been, are not and never will be truly civilised

NedTermo

JP Liz wrote: »

makes you ashamed to be Irish when this happens :mad:

culprits should be shot

Culprits aren't necessarily Irish, similar vicious attacks have recently been commited by foreign nationals.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/crowbar-attack-gang-smashed-girls-teeth-1670320.html

Not saying they are, not saying they aren't. just saying its a possibility.

orourkeda

walshb wrote: »

So, how exactly would shooting dead say a child killer/rapist who rapes and kills your child make you worse? Enlighten me please?

And, do take into consideration that the act of doing this is innate in all decent people.

Firstly, we're not talking about child rapists.

Secondly, I would not want the blood of a dead child molester on my hands or their death on my conscience for the rest of my life or for it to act as a souvenir or reminder for the rape of a child.

Revenge is not an excuse or justification for anything. No matter what anyone says or does.

TheZohanS

WindSock wrote: »

I'd shoot them in the knackers. But I wouldn't kill them.

You'd be better off killing them.

They'd sue you if you just injured them.

orourkeda

TheZohan wrote: »

You'd be better off killing them.

They'd sue you if you just injured them.

The law is an ass

This appeared in Oliver Twist originally and still applies today.

Therein lies the problem.

4zn76tysfajdxp

walshb wrote: »

This pro and anti death penalty debate gets tiresome.

Simple: If this happened to your mother and the scum stood in front
of you and said, "We did it," and you had a loaded gun, then it would take serious
serious restraint to stop you pulling the trigger. Now, you may well be anti death penalty, but the chances are that you would pull that trigger and this would be both rational and emotional. It's innate in all decent people, in all people, for that matter.

That's precisely why you shouldn't give the gun to her son/daughter. "Rational and emotional?" That's ridiculous, you're not some ice-cold hitman, you're only a guy with a gun taking revenge for a crime commited against your mother.

Posts like this make me so angry. Threads like this infuriate me. This is exactly how it'll go:

Side A will talk about plasma screens, TVs and other such luxurious perks because that's what Side B mean when they're talking about not fucking killing people.

Side B will initially try to be rational about the merits of placing criminals in prison instead of having the state murder them. But, par for the course, the sheer stupidity of Side A with their constant and braying accusations of "bleeding heart liberals" will eventually make them lose their tempers.

Then it descends into a free-for-all snipefest. You see this smiley: :rolleyes: ? Expect to see it a lot in the course of this thread.

The following things will be evoked in this thread, regardless of the original subject: Extended torture scenarios, Godwin's Law, Baby P, punishments for paedophiles and whether or not the death penalty works in the States.

To hell with this, I'm gonna PM Dudess just to ensure that the thread follows convention exactly.

NothingMan

orourkeda wrote: »

Revenge is not an excuse or justification for anything. No matter what anyone says or does.

I think revenge and justice are quite closely related. Eye for an eye and what not. I'm not religious but if I was i'd go old testemant on someone who did anything like this to my family.

Like a previous post said, it's seen as rational to put a rabid dog down, but not justified to put a rabid human down. Pure crazy.

Some people need killing. Not to mention it's cheaper than locking em up for years and trying to rehabilitate them while they get addicted to more drugs and hang around like minded ruthless killers and criminals.

Yes some may come out the better man for it, but sorry you ruthlessly took or ruined a life, yours is now forfeit. At least it should be.

Edit: But like Frada says, the gun should not be put in the hands of the family. I still believe in a fair trial, but if you're found wanting ... Take out the boomstick.

Long Onion

It boils down to whether or not you wish to live in a world where an eye for an eye is the order of the day. Someone does something which enrages you so you shoot them.

Personally, I wouldn't like to live there. Where do we draw the line do we only shoot people who beat the elderly and rape kids or do we extend it to a subjective level - If a loved one dies due to a hospital cock-up do we shoot the nurse, the consultant, Mary Harney?

The wild west mentality is not the way to go, if you think it is you should move to Haiti. The crux of the debate is whether or not you see the role of prison as being rehabilitative or penal, if the former then you need to give people a chance of being rehabilitated. If the latter then you lock the offender and throw away the key.

Walshb, if you were confronted with an offender who beat your granny and you pulled the trigger in rage, later to find out that the offender suffered serious mental issues and had the IQ of a young boy, would you deem this a good outcome?

orourkeda

Zahir Zealous Oyster wrote: »

That's precisely why you shouldn't give the gun to her son/daughter. "Rational and emotional?" That's ridiculous, you're not some ice-cold hitman, you're only a guy with a gun taking revenge for a crime commited against your mother.

Posts like this make me so angry. Threads like this infuriate me. This is exactly how it'll go:

Side A will talk about plasma screens, TVs and other such luxurious perks because that's what Side B mean when they're talking about not fucking killing people.

Side B will initially try to be rational about the merits of placing criminals in prison instead of having the state murder them. But, par for the course, the sheer stupidity of Side A with their constant and braying accusations of "bleeding heart liberals" will eventually make them lose their tempers.

Then it descends into a free-for-all snipefest. You see this smiley: :rolleyes: ? Expect to see it a lot in the course of this thread.

The following things will be evoked in this thread, regardless of the original subject: Extended torture scenarios, Godwin's Law, Baby P, punishments for paedophiles and whether or not the death penalty works in the States.

To hell with this, I'm gonna PM Dudess just to ensure that the thread follows convention exactly.

It will follow this exact course.

But doesnt it always. Reforming the law as it stands should be a good starting point

orourkeda

Long Onion wrote: »

It boils down to whether or not you wish to live in a world where an eye for an eye is the order of the day. Someone does something which enrages you so you shoot them.

Personally, I wouldn't like to live there. Where do we draw the line do we only shoot people who beat the elderly and rape kids or do we extend it to a subjective level - If a loved one dies due to a hospital cock-up do we shoot the nurse, the consultant, Mary Harney?

The wild west mentality is not the way to go, if you think it is you should move to Haiti. The crux of the debate is whether or not you see the role of prison as being rehabilitative or penal, if the former then you need to give people a chance of being rehabilitated. If the latter then you lock the offender and throw away the key.

Walshb, if you were confronted with an offender who beat your granny and you pulled the trigger in rage, later to find out that the offender suffered serious mental issues and had the IQ of a young boy, would you deem this a good outcome?

Each case is different and needs to be treated as such. This is why revenge has no part to play in anything

walshb

orourkeda wrote: »

Firstly, we're not talking about child rapists.

Secondly, I would not want the blood of a dead child molester on my hands or their death on my conscience for the rest of my life or for it to act as a souvenir or reminder for the rape of a child.

Revenge is not an excuse or justification for anything. No matter what anyone says or does.

In my post I also said you could use the excuse from the thread title.

Also, you haven't said why a person who kills another because that person
inflicted a serious beating on a relative for no reason whatsoever is worse?

The real world scenario should be used and anyone who can say that they wouldn't
pull the trigger is lying. You have to be put in the scenario and feel the pain and hurt and anguish before you could say for sure.

WindSock

orourkeda wrote: »

I bet you wouldnt when push came to shove

If they threatened me with death, then yes I would kill them. But I would rather see them suffer if they made my mam suffer. Anyway, hypothetical situashion. Who cares.

Edit: Oh I see you said wouldn't, thought you said would (as in kill them). Well, who knows? I ain't even got a gun, but I have shot a possum and they sort of look like furry humans.

NothingMan

Long Onion wrote: »

if you were confronted with an offender who beat your granny and you pulled the trigger in rage, later to find out that the offender suffered serious mental issues and had the IQ of a young boy, would you deem this a good outcome?

If they are violent and dangerous and killed someone then yes. Why should tax payers foot the bill for a dangerous criminal to be locked up?

TheInquisitor

orourkeda wrote: »

Firstly, we're not talking about child rapists.

Secondly, I would not want the blood of a dead child molester on my hands or their death on my conscience for the rest of my life or for it to act as a souvenir or reminder for the rape of a child.

Revenge is not an excuse or justification for anything. No matter what anyone says or does.

We're not talking about the rape of a child we're talking about the rape of YOUR child. If your child was kidnapped , raped , tortured and murdered are you honestly telling me you'd be happy with that guy living ? I 'd have no problem with thats guys blood on my hands. I'd personally torture him to death given half the chance.

orourkeda

NothingMan wrote: »

I think revenge and justice are quite closely related. Eye for an eye and what not. I'm not religious but if I was i'd go old testemant on someone who did anything like this to my family.

Like a previous post said, it's seen as rational to put a rabid dog down, but not justified to put a rabid human down. Pure crazy.

Some people need killing. Not to mention it's cheaper than locking em up for years and trying to rehabilitate them while they get addicted to more drugs and hang around like minded ruthless killers and criminals.

Yes some may come out the better man for it, but sorry you ruthlessly took or ruined a life, yours is now forfeit. At least it should be.

Edit: But like Frada says, the gun should not be put in the hands of the family. I still believe in a fair trial, but if you're found wanting ... Take out the boomstick.

(1) You can quote the bible to justify just about anything. As people do quite frequently

(2) Humans are not mangy dogs.

(3) The cost of housing a prisoner is the same no matter what your crime. If the expense of running the prison system is your beef then whats the alternative that doesnt include murdering people.

(4) Desire for revenge can ruin someones life too.

walshb

Long Onion wrote: »

Walshb, if you were confronted with an offender who beat your granny and you pulled the trigger in rage, later to find out that the offender suffered serious mental issues and had the IQ of a young boy, would you deem this a good outcome?

Well, one can add in all different variables to this, I am simply saying that at that specific moment in time, it is a mixture of everything running thru your head. Emotion, anger, rage and revenge and pity and all that. It's a loved one of yours who has been viciously brutalised and you are faced with the beasts who did it. I don't think any person can say that they wouldn't really really think hard about killing them. I know I would have to show major restraint to not

NedTermo

BVB wrote: »

Catch them and lock them up in Solitary Confinement for a few years

End of

Yea sounds great, when they come out they should be all happy with society and join voluntary organisations shouldn't they?

These roses smell lovely, how are yours?

orourkeda

TheInquisitor wrote: »

We're not talking about the rape of a child we're talking about the rape of YOUR child. If your child was kidnapped , raped , tortured and murdered are you honestly telling me you'd be happy with that guy living ? I 'd have no problem with thats guys blood on my hands. I'd personally torture him to death given half the chance.

I dont have children so this argument doesnt apply to me.

Why have you gone from a robbery to kidnapping, raping, torturing and murdering children. Stick to the issue.

I maintain that torturing a torturer, raping a rapist, kidnapping a kidnapper and murdering a murderer will never solve anything. It never has and never will.

Revenge begets revenge

orourkeda

NedTermo wrote: »

Yea sounds great, when they come out they should be all happy with society and join voluntary organisations shouldn't they?

These roses smell lovely, how are yours?

Smells almost as sweet as the gun powder that some people want used

NothingMan

orourkeda wrote: »

(1) You can quote the bible to justify just about anything. As people do quite frequently.

As I said i'm not religious, just that phrase makes sense in some situations.

orourkeda wrote: »

(2) Humans are not mangy dogs.

Well some act like it, and worse. And should be treated as such.

orourkeda wrote: »

(3) The cost of housing a prisoner is the same no matter what your crime. If the expense of running the prison system is your beef then whats the alternative that doesnt include murdering people.

I didn't say I wanted an alternative that didn't include murdering people. But criminals in for most crimes. ie. theft etc.. that aren't violent killers should be in prison getting as much care and attention needed that they leave in a solid state of mind. My argument is only for the violent scum type.

orourkeda wrote: »

(4) Desire for revenge can ruin someones life too.

Hence why I agreed on the part that the shooting shouldn't be left to the family, but to be decided after a fair trial.

TheInquisitor

orourkeda wrote: »

I dont have children so this argument doesnt apply to me.

Why have you gone from a robbery to kidnapping, raping, torturing and murdering children. Stick to the issue.

I maintain that torturing a torturer, raping a rapist, kidnapping a kidnapper and murdering a murderer will never solve anything. It never has and never will.

It means that the offender cannot offend again. Thats enough for me. My main problem with your argument is the INNOCENT person didn't bring on anything upon themselves. This lady didn't abuse or attack them in some way. They just robbed and beat her up for her money. These people won't be rehabilitated or changed. People rarely change in this circumstance. They need to be taken out of society and preferably not a the huge cost which is the justice system. Why should we be paying to keep someone in jail for something he did wrong? It makes absolutely no sense.

DonJose

A little more description of the attackers might solve this case, because of politically correct bullsh!t there is no mention of the attackers accents, be they local, from Dublin, travellers or foreigners. This is the second such attack in the Waterford in the past couple of weeks and could easily have been carried out by the same scumbag gang.