Officeman to Ironman

Carb

Hello all. I'm back.

For those that may not have seen my previous short log, here is a brief description of me. I'm 29 years old, just over 5' 5" short, approximately 11 stone. I've done no physical activity for the best part of 10 years until a couple of months ago when I started doing some running and a little cycling. When I disappeared from here a couple of weeks ago, I could cycle slowly for about 1.5/2 hrs, average speed roughly 25km/h, and I could comfortably run distances of about 7/8 miles at about 8mins/mile. My swimming is crap/non existent. So thats where I'm starting from.:(

So after a couple of weeks of crimes against health, I think I'm reasonably orgainsed to give this a go again. The gym membership is paid, the programme has been done up, the swimmning lessons are booked (start next week), the bike is sitting on the turbo and the daily alarm has been set for 4.30am:eek:

My main goal for next year is the Kenmare HIM, so I've a lot of work to do. 2011 will be a full IM. I'll also do 1 or two olympic distance events during the summer along with some sprint events depending on how they fit in with training. This will become more clear as the events calender unflolds. I also want to do the Connemara marathon in April to keep the interest going.

I see from now to December very much as a prep. period. The gym work invloves pretty much a full body workout split over two workouts. Lower back, shoulders etc are very week after ten years of sitting behind the desk and the individual leg exercises have uncoverd a lot of variation in the strength of my legs. My weekdays will be roughly:

Day AM PM
Mon Gym Run
Tue Swim Turbo
Wed Gym Run
Thur Swim Turbo
Fri Gym Run


Saturdays and Sundays will be a longer run/bike. I envisage every fourth week been a quieter week as I don't get a massive amount of sleep so this will give me a chance to recover. I'll adjust volume/intensity based on what my body is telling me, and over time, the gym will be reduced to be replaced by swimming. Obviously with work, 2 young kids etc, everything may not go to plan all of the time but so be it.

Sorry about the long winded post. So starting with yesterdays gym session, here goes.

Monday 12th October 09 Set 1 Set 2 Set 3
Exercise Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg
Squats (Smith machine) 13 50 13 50 13 50
Hamstring Curl (Individual legs) 13 22.5 13 22.5
Leg Extension (Individual legs) 13 20 13 20
Single Leg Calf Raise (Dumbell) 13 9 13 9
Back Extension 20 N/A 15 N/A 15 N/A
Plank 30secs N/A 30secs N/A 30secs N/A


Evening: 2.5 miles in about 20 mins. Just easing myself back in.

Tueday 13/10/09 Morning. 45 mins in the pool. This just consits of splashing half a length of the pool and back again. This is only my third time doing this but already it feels like my body is higher in the water and my arms and legs are not as tired. If only I could breath. The start of lessons next week should help.

Thanks for reading, and I'll try to keep this updated as much as possible.

Izoard

Good man..bets of luck with it!

Great to see a few more IM logs...

kennyb3

Carb wrote: »

and the daily alarm has been set for 4.30am:eek:

I have to ask what time you go to bed at?

2 sessions a day, fair play!

best of luck btw

jb-ski

Best of luck with your plans.

if i could just ask, why is the a Ironman priority now?
why not some focus on very good sprint/olympic distance tri's?
don't misunderstand, i not knocking your ambition, i am genuinely curious.

To complete tri's or runs is relatively easy, but to compete is much harder,IMO

i'm looking forward to your log. theres lots of support here to help keep one
motivated, i find.

christeb

Good luck, I love the title! It'll be interesting to see how you progress, as it's something I very much want to achieve in the future also.

Carb

kennyb3 wrote: »

I have to ask what time you go to bed at?

2 sessions a day, fair play!

best of luck btw

11pm is about the average. On bad nights I could sit watching TV to about 11.30. Long term, I'm hoping to be asleep by 10.30 but it doesn't always go to plan. I've been functioning for a number of years on 5.5/6hrs sleep per night with one sleepin at the weekend. There has been no adverse effects yet. I had been getting up before 5am up until now anyway.

I know from you posts you like your 8/9 hours but I feel worse if I sleep that long. 7 seems about my max.

Carb

jb-ski wrote: »

Best of luck with your plans.

if i could just ask, why is the a Ironman priority now?
why not some focus on very good sprint/olympic distance tri's?
don't misunderstand, i not knocking your ambition, i am genuinely curious.

To complete tri's or runs is relatively easy, but to compete is much harder,IMO

i'm looking forward to your log. theres lots of support here to help keep one
motivated, i find.

Don't worry, I understand what you're saying and it gets mentioned a lot on the main forum.

IM is planned for 2011 so it is far from an immediate priority. I also have no interest in "completing" a triathlon, whether I could compete, I don't really know. It's a very long way off. Although I intend finishing the season with a HIM, I really want to do a couple of very good Olympic distance events during the summer, and push as hard as posible on a couple of sprint events. To give a little insight into the way I think, I'd have no interest in doing a HIM if I don't think I could target a time of about 5 hours. The same would apply to any event I wanted to do.

The other reason is the endurance aspect, pushing your body to its limits, doing something that relatively few have done. Probably the same sort of reason that attracts people to marathons rather 5k/10k races. Again, going back to my mentality on these things, I could have done DCM this year, but again I've no interest in just completing it. Unless I can target 3.30/3.45 I won't do it.

Not sure if it really addresses your question. I know Tunney has mentioned in a previous posting that a good Olympic time is much better than completing a HIM and I'd agree. I guess I want a good time in both, but the different distances will throw up a good variation in what I need to do in training. A happy mixture of speed and endurance.

kennyb3

Carb wrote: »

11pm is about the average. On bad nights I could sit watching TV to about 11.30. Long term, I'm hoping to be asleep by 10.30 but it doesn't always go to plan. I've been functioning for a number of years on 5.5/6hrs sleep per night with one sleepin at the weekend. There has been no adverse effects yet. I had been getting up before 5am up until now anyway.

I know from you posts you like your 8/9 hours but I feel worse if I sleep that long. 7 seems about my max.

fair play. i just couldnt function on that sleep, kind of wish i could.

jb-ski

Hi again Carb,

A very reasoned and well-thought out reply. Thanks

As a relative newbie to this tri/running lark, my early events were just to
complete (generally mid pack). Now I’m a bit more focussed and realise how hard it is to shave off those minutes , and I’ve increased admiration now for those closer to the front of the pack.

Also, I can totally relate to the mixture of speed and endurance, I’m enjoying the endurance part of training at the moment. (DCM in 13 days!)

Thanks again for reply, look forward to updates on training here.

BTW 4.30 starts! Fair play to you!

tunney

Looks good. I look forward to following the blog.

Carb

Thanks for all the support. No doubt, much more of it will be needed in the months to come, especially with my swimming.

I should make two points in relation the 4.30 starts. Firstly, I spend 4 hrs a day commuting, so the early rise is more to do with trying to get to the gym by 7 in the morning rather that doing a monster workout before the rest of you have breakfast.

Also, a number of months a go I found myself in a bit of rut. I'd felt a growing malaise in relation to my job, got sick of the commute, smoking 20 cigs a day, eating crap and just in general fed up. I think this was largely due to been stuck in the following routine. 5.00am up out of bed, work by 8.15am, leave work at 4.30pm, home by 6.30pm, put kids to bed, watch TV, go to bed, and repeat. I'd no hobbies or interests bar any reading I done on the train.

This was when I took an interest in running and gradually develped an interest in triathlon, primarily through here. I wouldn't say it has made work much easier (this probably more to do with the current enviroment), but I think having an interest and something to look forward to has been a huge benefit. The downside, is that to put a good effort into this, I've no other choice but start early and finish late. It's a price I'm willing to pay.

I just thought I'd get that out in the open as may people think I'm mad with the early rises (they think 5 mile runs are mad too) etc. By putting it out there at the start, hopefully its a question I won't have to answer again.:)

kennyb3

Do you work in accountancy carb? industry or practice? 4 hour commute seems very long, i assume its just a case of there being nothing available close to home? sorry hope you dont mind the personal question.

interested to see how your swimming goes, im kind of considering starting training - i have a made up stroke i.e i can swim a few lenghts etc but im not much of a swimmer - with a view to doing a tri next year at some stage. i cycle and run so a duathlon might be the place to start

Carb

kennyb3 wrote: »

Do you work in accountancy carb? industry or practice? 4 hour commute seems very long, i assume its just a case of there being nothing available close to home? sorry hope you dont mind the personal question.

interested to see how your swimming goes, im kind of considering starting training - i have a made up stroke i.e i can swim a few lenghts etc but im not much of a swimmer - with a view to doing a tri next year at some stage. i cycle and run so a duathlon might be the place to start

Well you can probably swim more than me already. Run 8 miles, no problem, swim 25 metres, just about. The reality is that up until now you could count the number of times I go to the pool each year on your hands, and even then that is just with the kids, so no swimming really. My current ability reflects this, but after only three visits, I can already feel an improvement. It does seem to be all about technique and practice, practice, practice.

Regarding work, I'm in financial services. I worked in industry at home until about 2 years ago (originally started in practice). I sort of landed in my current job. CV Thursday, interview Friday, started the following Monday. It was contract initially and then I accepted a permanet role. Then the sh*t hit the fan and I got stuck. TBH, I don't really mind the commute although its not ideal. Opportunities were always scarce at home and employers attitudes, salary, training, career opportunities reflect this. The bank won't reduce my mortgage because I want to work closer to home and as long as I'm willing to commute, there will always be more opportunities. My current employers are ok to work for, and are fairly flexible with the hours wihich means I'm home at about the same time as I would be if I worked at home. Mornings are where I take the hit.

kennyb3

thanks for the detailed reply. just as a matter of interest, what turbo are you using? and did you buy any accessories? ie special tyre and mat.

considering going down this road myself, as i cant run at the moment and cycled quite a bit over the summer but havent lately due to the dark evening. have read a few threads on them but my head was spinning a bit.

rigal

Best of luck Carb.

Looking forward to following your log. Like Kennyb3 I'd be interested to hear what you do on the turbo. I'm getting one in a few weeks.

Abhainn

Best of luck Carb. Looking forward to an interesting read.
I like you viewpoint compete rather than complete .

Carb

Did half an hour on the turbo last night for the first time. I haven't really done much cycling previously so this was a shock to the system. Firstly I was surprised at how slow my cadence was, and it felt like you had to work very hard to get up speed. HR was all over the place, but I don't know my resting or maximum rates so I can't read much into it. I won't even mention the sweating. In a nutshell, you really feel like you have had a workout getting off it. Probaby would have spent longer on it only I left it to late to start. Needed to iron a shirt for this morning.:( . Wonder is that what they mean by ironman.

For those that were asking, I bought a Tacx Flow of a fellow boardsie. Seems to have a lot of funcitonality and not overly noisey. Bike24 recently had them for sale at €255, and I think Slanecycles had them for sale at £290. When I was looking into it, the model below seemed to get a good mention also, "Satori" I think. I think the main difference is on the computer.

As for what I'm going to do on it, I think the first while is going to have to be working on cadence, pedal stroke and just time on the bike in general. I'll have to mix it up every now and again to avoid boredom but it's something I need to look into more. Tacx have progarammes on their website that I need to investigate. ITs fair to say that you're not going to be overly excited when using one.

This morning's workout:

Wednesday 14th October 09 Set 1 Set 2 Set 3
Exercise Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg
Lat Pulldown 13 22.5 13 25 13 25
Dumbell Bench Press 13 12 13 12 13 12
T-Bar Row 13 20 13 20 13 20
Braced Shoulder Press 13 8 13 8 13 8
Bicep Curl 10 12 10 12


I'm suppose to do biceps and triceps on the cable machine, but there were two other guys who decided they were the only ones allowed to use it this morning (over half an hour when I was leaving), so I had to improvise. A DB bicep curl was an obvious choice, but then the fire alarm went off and we had to evacuate briefly. So didn't have time to look for an alternative tricep exercise. To tell the truth, I wouldn't be to worried if I didn't do either. I feel the arms get a fair bit of use over all the other exercises anyway, but I'll try an stick with the program for now.

Carb

Abhainn wrote: »

Best of luck Carb. Looking forward to an interesting read.
I like you viewpoint compete rather than complete .

Thanks Abhainn. I'd love to be able to compete, but I'm a long way off the sort of times you've be throwing out lately. One step at a time.

Best of luck with DCM by the way. 2hr 50 should be in sight:). Whats the rule of thumb, twice your half marathon time plus 10mins.

Carb

Last night did a 5 mile run in a little under 45 mins. No major stress involved but it was a little more difficult/slower than when I was running 3 or 4 weeks ago. I haven't gone too far backwards.

This morning was time for the pool again. I'm beginning to feel big improvements here (for me anyway). I'm starting to routinely get my breathing right so I'm not constantly out of breath. My stroke and kick are starting to feel much stronger too. I managed to get about 250m under my belt (stop/start of course) before I started losing all shape in the water. My shoulders were still a little fatigued from the gym yesterday morning which meant a shorter session than planned.

Carb

Half an hour last night on the turbo. Much better session. I losened the resistance unit which made peadling feel more natural. I obviously had it too tight. Tried as much as possible to maintain a cadence of 80 for the 30 mins and dropped it a couple of gears for the last five minutes. Scarily, I sort of enjoyed the workout. I think I might be going mad.

Good workout this morning. I moved some of the weights up and some will be moved up on the next session.

Friday 16th October 09 Set 1 Set 2 Set 3
Exercise Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg
Squats (Smith machine) 13 50 13 55 13 55
Hamstring Curl (Individual legs) 13 22.5 13 22.5
Leg Extension (Individual legs) 13 20 13 20
Single Leg Calf Raise (Dumbell) 13 10 13 10
Back Extension 15 N/A 15 N/A 15 N/A
Plank 30secs N/A 30secs N/A 30secs N/A


Thankfully I'm feeling no ill effects from the early rises and the two sessions per day. I'll see what happens when the duration goes up.

Carb

One week done, one injury gained. Went for a five mile run on Friday night and had a little pain on my right foot for about about 5 minutes. It went away shortly afterwards. This seemed to be a follow on from the turbo on Thursday night when I had a brief pain in the same area. My foot seems to want to turn out more and obviously with the cleats, this wasn't going to happen.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I got up Saturday morning with a lot pain on the outside of foot around the area where my little toe/ball of foot/bone on outside of foot connect. It's only really sore when I walk in my bare feet, and it is much better today compared to yesterday.

This means I could do nothing all weekend.

Back to the gym this morning.

Monday 19th October 09 Set 1 Set 2 Set 3
Exercise Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg
Lat Pulldown 13 25 13 25 13 25
Dumbell Bench Press 13 12 13 12 13 12
T-Bar Row 13 20 13 25 13 27.5
Braced Shoulder Press 13 9 13 9 13 9
Bicep Curl (Cable M'hine) 13 32 13 36
Triceps (Cable M'hine) 13 36 13 41


First swim lesson tomorrow which will replace my usual morning session. Not sure if I can do anything this evening. I'll have to see how my foot is.

Carb

Well my foot has kept me out of action for the past two evenings, but I think I might be able to chance it out this evening. Skipped the calf raises and plank this morning in case I'd aggravate it as I can still feel it slightly.

Anyway, had my first swimming lesson yesterday. Was happy with how it went. Surprisingly, it seems I have a very good kick, the main issue at the moment is at the other end. I'm not getting the desired body/shoulder role that he'd like to see, to facilitate easy breathing. I was sort of expecting this anyway. There were only 5 in the class which meant you got just enough attention, and everyone gets instruction at the end of the class on what weaknesses to work on. I'm very optimistic that this set of lessons will work.

This morning, back to the gym. As I mentioned, I had to skip a couple of exercises, but other than that, I'm happy with the work out. Managed to use a little extra weight on some of the exercises today. I'm at work now with a serious case of jelly legs. This morning's workout:

Wednesday 21st October 09 Set 1 Set 2 Set 3
Exercise Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg
Squats (Smith machine) 13 55 13 55 13 55
Hamstring Curl (Individual legs) 13 27.5 13 27.5
Leg Extension (Individual legs) 13 25 13 25
Single Leg Calf Raise (Dumbell) 0 0 0
Back Extension 20 N/A 20 N/A 20 N/A
Plank 0 0 0

Carb

Went out for a five mile run last night. This is two laps of a 2.5 mile loop I have near the house. I can easily say that the first lap was the wettest, coldest, darkest, most miserable 21m 33s of my life. At least for the second lap the rain stopped and the wind eased. Overall time 42 mins 15secs. On the upside, if I was able to face last nights elements, I should be able to able to face most of what the winter throws at me.

Back to the pool this morning. Still a case of trying to practice my breathing, so I'm only doing half lengths. Got about 300m done this morning. I think I'll have to drop one of the weight sessions for a swim session sooner rather than later. I'll give it another week or two to see how the lessons progress. I don't think I could face another morning in the pool if I wasn't doing full lengths.

pgibbo

Hi Carb,
Best of luck on your venture. Interesting read so far. Are you going to get some swim lessons or join a Master class to improve your swimming? I was in the same position as you this time 2 years ago and some lessons really sorted me out. I still have a long way to go but swimming with a Masters group is helping too.

For the turbo sessions have a look at the CTS or Spinerval DVDs. They are quite good and there's a huge selection of them available - on most P2P sites also. I find it takes the monotony out of these sessions. The tacx site has plenty of turbo sessions up there too. I guess you just have to watch the clock and be more dilligent when doing them that way. I always opt for the easiest option - DVD!

BTW, Kenmare is a great event and well worth the training effort. Best of luck.

Carb

pgibbo wrote: »

Hi Carb,
Best of luck on your venture. Interesting read so far. Are you going to get some swim lessons or join a Master class to improve your swimming? I was in the same position as you this time 2 years ago and some lessons really sorted me out. I still have a long way to go but swimming with a Masters group is helping too.

For the turbo sessions have a look at the CTS or Spinerval DVDs. They are quite good and there's a huge selection of them available - on most P2P sites also. I find it takes the monotony out of these sessions. The tacx site has plenty of turbo sessions up there too. I guess you just have to watch the clock and be more dilligent when doing them that way. I always opt for the easiest option - DVD!

BTW, Kenmare is a great event and well worth the training effort. Best of luck.

Thanks for the support and advice.

I had my first swimming lesson yesterday, and I've no doubt it will help. The guy seems very good. My problem is that I had sort of allocated 2 days for the pool per week up until the end of December, but the lesson is going to use one of these up for the next 8 weeks. It sort of makes it feel like I'm only swimming once a week. I might tip over to the guys in the fitness forum to see if I could make better use of the weights time and cut it down to two days.

In relation to the turbo, I hope to get back on it this evening. I haven't found it too boring yet, but at the moment I'm really working on cadence and pedal stroke. It was late in the summer when I got my bike so I''m coming into the winter with a very low cycling base. I've no doubt when intensity/duration goes up, I'll be falling back on your suggestions.

tunney

Glad you mentioned your gym sessions. Unless you have an imbalance that you are trying to address or are particularly vain and want non-functional muscle in key places then three sessions is overkill. Two is more than enough.

Ditch one and swim once extra.
Where are you doing you're swimming lessons and does the instructor understand that you want to learn to swim for openwater as you are aiming for more Aussie freestyle than American freestyle for open water.

No disrespect to pgibbo but for turbo sessions under 1:30 you should have very structured predefined sessions, no videos, no VR, no nothing, you have a stated goal and a plan to achieve it for that session. At this time of year you should be looking at strength work on the turbo.

Carb

tunney wrote: »

Glad you mentioned your gym sessions. Unless you have an imbalance that you are trying to address or are particularly vain and want non-functional muscle in key places then three sessions is overkill. Two is more than enough.

I've shaved my head for convenience which I hope is a good measue of my vanity.:)

I do think I have weaknesses that needed to be addressed, such as differences in strength on my legs, weak lower back, very weak shoulders, so the three times a week have been put too good use. Its only with swimming lessons now, I'm beginning to feel the time would be more beneficial in the water. I do intend only one weights session come January and dropping it completely come April.

tunney wrote: »

Where are you doing you're swimming lessons and does the instructor understand that you want to learn to swim for openwater as you are aiming for more Aussie freestyle than American freestyle for open water.

Doing my lessons in TCD. How do these differ. Is it the angle of stroke?

tunney wrote: »

No disrespect to pgibbo but for turbo sessions under 1:30 you should have very structured predefined sessions, no videos, no VR, no nothing, you have a stated goal and a plan to achieve it for that session. At this time of year you should be looking at strength work on the turbo.

I'd lover to be able to keep going for 1:30. but I'm not there yet. At the moment I'm taking it roughly 10min at a time. 8 mins maintaing a cadence of 80, drop a couple of gears and trying to maintain it for the last two mins, one min recovery and off again. Its not very technical or structured, but for me it takes a hell of an effort.

tunney

Carb wrote: »

Doing my lessons in TCD. How do these differ. Is it the angle of stroke?

From my limited knowledge of swimming - the recovery. Aussie is almost straight arm recovery (good for restriction in wetsuits around the shoulders), American is a tight recovery and not really great for wetsuits.

Carb wrote: »

I'd lover to be able to keep going for 1:30. but I'm not there yet. At the moment I'm taking it roughly 10min at a time. 8 mins maintaing a cadence of 80, drop a couple of gears and trying to maintain it for the last two mins, one min recovery and off again. Its not very technical or structured, but for me it takes a hell of an effort.

I'm not a subscriber to "its all about the bike leg", a view that is very common in Ireland. However in training for HIM and IM - it is all about the bike. You need to be strong and you need to have oodles of endurance on the bike. Have you a plan to improve you biking? Whats your long term strategy to getting bike fit?

Carb

tunney wrote: »

I'm not a subscriber to "its all about the bike leg", a view that is very common in Ireland. However in training for HIM and IM - it is all about the bike. You need to be strong and you need to have oodles of endurance on the bike. Have you a plan to improve you biking? Whats your long term strategy to getting bike fit?

I suppose I have given an idication of what I'm doing and intend doing up until the end of December. Working on cadence, stroke, the gear I'm in, TT position which is completely new to me, hopefully making things continually more difficult. I need to make further enquiries into HR training. At the moment the plan is about two 1hr sessions during the week and a longer one at the weekend. Occasionally I may do a third turbo session during the week at the expense of a run.

The period Jan to end of March is more questionable. I need to do more reading, and I'll also have the distraction of marathon training (hopefully). I suspect there will be a real strength focus.

From the start of April onwards, I have things a little bit better lined up in my head. Annual rail ticket will be up, so I intend incorporating the bike into my commute. Probably about 30-50km round trip on 4 days. The last weight session will be dropped for a longer cycle ie. 90/100 km round trip. Long cycle on Sunday mornings with some trips to the mountains. At this point due to the marathon work, I hope to drop the volume of running to three sessions for maintaining endurance and increasing speed.

Obviously, it has none of the structures, targets that you probably have lined up, but it's so new for me, any time on the saddle will bring beneifts. I will of course have personal goals along the way of hitting certain average speeds, cycling for certain durations, but at the moment I haven't found my base and I'm not in a position to say I can be x,y or z by a particular date.

pgibbo

tunney wrote: »

No disrespect to pgibbo but for turbo sessions under 1:30 you should have very structured predefined sessions, no videos, no VR, no nothing, you have a stated goal and a plan to achieve it for that session. At this time of year you should be looking at strength work on the turbo.

I though these DVDs might be useful for someone starting out as Carb is new to cycling. Point taken though and thanks. As I finally got back on the turbo myself this week and will be on it at least once a week for the next couple of months can you give a sample of what you class as strength work please tunney? Cheers.

Carb

Got another half an hour on the turbo last night. At the moment I'm stuggling to go past this. Not out of boredom, but from fatigue. On the upside I did push myself to my limits. Continuous cadence of 80-85 (about 24km/hr) for 20 mins, 1 min rest, increased by a gear and maintained the same cadence for a further 10 mins (approx 25.5km/hr). From my limited experience of the road, the trainer seems to give more resistance than a flat road ie, I'd be reasonably confident that the same cadence on the road could be maintained in a higher gear. Anyway, my quads were absolutely on fire at the end, and I nearly toppled over when I got off, so any workout that has that effect is good by me.

Back to the gym this morning. Found it quite tough due to fatigue in general and heavier weights.

Friday 23rd October 09 Set 1 Set 2 Set 3
Exercise Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg
Lat Pulldown 13 25 13 25 13 25
Dumbell Bench Press 13 12 13 14 10 14
T-Bar Row 13 27.5 13 27.5 13 27.5
Braced Shoulder Press 13 10 13 10 13 10
Bicep Curl (Cable M'hine) 13 36 10 36
Triceps (Cable M'hine) 13 41 13 45.5


Based on the discussion yesterday on the thread, I'm going to reduce my days in the gym to two, and increase swimming by one. I'll leave it on a split programme so my leg workout only impacts me on one day. It's difficult to do a good run in the evening when my legs are so tired. I'll also have a review of the programme in general over the next week or two. Don't think I need to be doing bicep and triceps separately.

Carb

Well, another disasterous weekend. Started off quite well. Got a 5 mile run in on Friday night, again in about 42 mins. Then it was all sharply downhill. I had initially hoped to get in a LSR of about 8 -10 miles on Saturday, but due to time constraints I had to revise this down to 7. That was the plan going out the door, but actually turned out to be a 4.5 mile painfest (42 mins). I can easily say this was the most horrible run I've encountered since I started getting into this a couple of months ago, if not not the most horrible "training session" I've ever had for any sport. A truly soul destroying experience.

And that sums up my weekend. I just didn't feel well for the rest of the weekend. I took the dog for a one mile walk on Sunday and yesterday and I felt quite drained. I was painting all day yesterday which probably played a part. I know I'm dropping weight at the moment. I'm 3 -5lb lighter than two weeks ago, but I really would have expected this to stabilise or actually increase over the weekend due to the lack of activity, and the amount of crap I ate. I need to to keep an eye on things here, as I'm not going to make much progress if I don't have the energy and I really need to start making the weekends count.

Anyway, I have my swimming lesson today, and I plan to be on the turbo this evening for what ever length the film "fifty dead men walking" lasts. I had intended the turbo session for the weekend, but it wasn't to be.

tunney

You need to drop the focus on time and distance. Just pick a time that you are going to run for and run for that duration. Once the base is there then start worrying about pace and distance.

Carb

tunney wrote: »

You need to drop the focus on time and distance. Just pick a time that you are going to run for and run for that duration. Once the base is there then start worrying about pace and distance.

I know my posts come across as a focus on time but that hasn't really been the case, not since I started back at this a couple of weeks ago. I run a 2.5 mile loop during the week, and the only time I actually look at my watch is when I'm starting lap 2. I'm pretty much going by feel at the moment. I suppose I only post the time/distance for info as there's not much interest in reading that somebody ran for 45 mins last night. I know what you're saying though.

I'm not that worried about time and distance until after December. Hoping Santa will bring me a garmin of some sort.:)

Saturday was a different kettle of fish. I had done 7/8 mile slow runs before and was rather comfortable. I left the house with a spring in my step, but on the second 1.5 miles of my planned route which has a couple of nasty hills, I hit a relentless gale force head wind that I nearly couldn't breath in, at times I'd imagine I was leaning at a 75 degree angle, and every step involved a massive push forward. Nevermind the rain hurting my face. I suppose I never found my legs after this, and ended up cutting the run short.

I realise days like this are what make you stronger, but at the moment I'm just a little disappointed at how it impacted on my great intentions for the rest of the weekend. I'll get over it. Onwards and upwards.

Carb

Feeling a little more positive today:)

Had my swimming lesson yesterday and I can feel progress been made already. At this stage the instructor seems very good and gives everbody just enough attention. With only five in the class the drills are relentless and I was completey worn out at the end. One drill involved kcking on your side holding on to a float with one outstretched arm, the other down your side. My back didn't know what hit it.

I spent 1hr 15mins on the turbo trainer last night. Nothing much to report other than the film was crap. Nice to get past the hour stage though.

Back to the gym this morning. Legs weren't all that fresh after last nights session, so it wasn't exactly enjoyable. Managed to keep the weights the same or up slightly in some cases. Didn't get to do my back extensions as some guy was wasting his time on the smith machine (I need to use this to hook my feet under). Anyway this morning's workout.

Wednesday 28th October 09 Set 1 Set 2 Set 3
Exercise Reps Kg Reps Kg Reps Kg
Squats (Smith machine) 10 60 13 60 13 60
Hamstring Curl (Individual legs) 13 27.5 13 27.5
Leg Extension (Individual legs) 13 25 13 25
Single Leg Calf Raise (Dumbell) 13 12 13 12
Back Extension 0 0
Plank 30secs 30secs 30secs

Carb

If good intentions translated into training sessions, I'd probably hold many world records.:). Going home yesterday evening I felt fairly fresh, and I thought to myself, what a nice mild evening and at last, no wind. Maybe I'll get a good run in tonight. However, such is the randomness of family life, I ended up confined to baby sitting duties. I'll skip the report on that.

Back to the pool this moring. Got about 350m done, but it was a little frustrating. In the last lesson, we were working on correcting our stroke, getting rid of the whole overstretching thing. I concentrated on that this morning but as a result, my breathing has gone again. It's a bit like been back to square one where I'm having to concentrate on everything. One step back for two steps forward hopefully. I'm going to skip the gym in the morning and hit the pool again. I think I'll also drop the gym to one morning a week, and go to the pool four mornings. Not a lot of point having strong shoulders and not been able to swim.

Finally, as a follow on to my good intentions comment at the start of this post. My last log was full of "I'd like to do X race" or "I intend doing Y race" and I never actually did. So this morning I bit the bullet. I'm now registered for the 2010 Connemara marathon, all 26 miles of it.:eek:

MCOS

Carb wrote: »

If good intentions translated into training sessions, I'd probably hold many world records.:). Going home yesterday evening I felt fairly fresh, and I thought to myself, what a nice mild evening and at last, no wind. Maybe I'll get a good run in tonight. However, such is the randomness of family life, I ended up confined to baby sitting duties. I'll skip the report on that.

Back to the pool this moring. Got about 350m done, but it was a little frustrating. In the last lesson, we were working on correcting our stroke, getting rid of the whole overstretching thing. I concentrated on that this morning but as a result, my breathing has gone again. It's a bit like been back to square one where I'm having to concentrate on everything. One step back for two steps forward hopefully. I'm going to skip the gym in the morning and hit the pool again. I think I'll also drop the gym to one morning a week, and go to the pool four mornings. Not a lot of point having strong shoulders and not been able to swim.

Finally, as a follow on to my good intentions comment at the start of this post. My last log was full of "I'd like to do X race" or "I intend doing Y race" and I never actually did. So this morning I bit the bullet. I'm now registered for the 2010 Connemara marathon, all 26 miles of it.:eek:

Hi Carb,

Just catching up on your log. Good job so far and fair play on setting the targets for yourself. Conn Marathon is a beautiful Marathon. I can understand the swimming frustration but believe me it will come with consistency. Good decision to drop a weights sess for a swim, the swim will still work your shoulders you know! The key to achieving your objectives is to work backwards from them. That means having a vision of yourself on the day of your Marathon and knowing how fit and strong you feel. The gap between now and then is all the time you have to feel like that and everthing you do will edge you closer. The more specific a purpose your training has the quicker you close that gap. Quality will be even more important with the commuting, family and work/life balancing act. Keep everything easy for the winter and allow you body to adapt to the stresses gradually. Remember your fitness and strength is building as you recover between sessions!

2 quick suggestions to keep the training interesting especially over teh winter.
1. Prioritise 2-3 workouts in your weekly schedule. So if you have 9 sessions, choose which 3 are most important.
2. Have some fun in sessions. For example on the turbo if you have the TV on watching the footie, get out of the saddle when your team counter attack or do 1 min of single leg repeats for every corner.... might seem like mad stuff but it just makes the time fly

Delighted to see another IM log up here and I wish you the very best of luck with your journey. I'm sure many of us will learn plenty from your log but not in the same ballpark as what you will learn about yourself by executing you plan and achieving your IM goal

Carb

Thanks for the support MCOS.

Am I right in saying that you only learned to swim in recent years or did I pick that up worng. If you did, what was your timeline like, ie how long before you felt comfortable breathing, when could you string a couple of lengths together etc. Sometimes it's hard to guage if I'm progressing as I should be although I think increasing the number of swims should yield improvements.

jb-ski

hi, carb

well done on booking Conn Marathon, it's a lovely event.
(i did 1/2 this year, registered for full next year).

Enjoying your log so far, will keep looking in
to keep me motivated ( and borrow some of the advice you're getting
from the experts Mcos, tunney etc:))

Also full credit to your time management skills!

Carb

jb-ski wrote: »

hi, carb

well done on booking Conn Marathon, it's a lovely event.
(i did 1/2 this year, registered for full next year).

Enjoying your log so far, will keep looking in
to keep me motivated ( and borrow some of the advice you're getting
from the experts Mcos, tunney etc:))

Also full credit to your time management skills!

Thanks jb-ski. Any targets set for the marathon yet and have you any training plan in mind.

One of the great things about this forum is that it's full of of people who have been there, bought the t-shirt. You can't beat advice from people with real life experiences of these events. I have to admit though, I'm always a little aprehensive opening the thread when I see Tunney's been in. Keep expecting I'll get given out to.:D

Anyway, back to training. Had a 2.5 mile run in 23 mins last night. Had intended doing more but my legs were having absolutely none of it. Felt like the sort of night you could pick up an injury very easily as I kept getting random twinges. So I cut it short, went home and spent about 15 mins stretching and then ate far too much potatoes and beef stew. The one positive was that I thought I was running much slower, so I was surprised to see 23 mins when I got to the end of the lap.

Legs felt much better this morning. I headed back to the pool. I've no idea on how much I swam as I was concentrating on trying to get my breathing right. I definitely made progress, although I still occasionally create a wave with my arm and when I turn to breathe, I get a nice mouthful of water. I need to get a decent pair of goggles too.

MCOS

Carb wrote: »

Thanks for the support MCOS.

Am I right in saying that you only learned to swim in recent years or did I pick that up worng. If you did, what was your timeline like, ie how long before you felt comfortable breathing, when could you string a couple of lengths together etc. Sometimes it's hard to guage if I'm progressing as I should be although I think increasing the number of swims should yield improvements.

Hi Carb I started swimming about 15 months ago. Initially it was just a few lengths of a 20m leisure center pool to break up the monotony of running I was doing in 2008. Then someone suggested I do a Tri. I found out what the swim was and so worked my way up to 1.5k in the 20m pool, just adding lengths nearly every time I visited. I never had lessons and breathing every 4 just seemed to get me through it. The one thing I focused mostly on was trying to cover the 20m in fewer strokes. At first it took me 22 strokes so I set my sights on 20, then 18 etc... So, having reached the mark I decided in Aug 2008 to time myself doing a 1500 in the UL 50m (my first time in that pool). I didn't take account of how much I had been 'resting' in the smaller pool. I'd literally stop at the wall at go again. The 50m took it out of me and I struggled big time, breathing every 2 for most of it. I needed a couple of rests but completed the 1500 in about 45minutes, cramping up badly on the final length. I then broke my 20m pool sessions (usually done at lunch time) into 6*200m. I was reading up on technique and just trying to apply one thing at a time. After a month of this I had my 1500 down to 34mins. I joined a Tri club in Oct 2008 and started swimming with a group doing specific sets, this accelarated my progress. This had me down to 29 mins by xmas and I was doing 2k total in session. I had set my sights on doing a sub 30 min swim at Joey and wanted to be able to swim for an hour straight. I basically focussed on the swimming over the winter and exceeded my target at Joey albeit it nearly gave me a heart attack. To be honest I put it down to just sticking at it consistently. I then discovered a wetsuit helps your legs float and swimming became an enjoyable part of Triathlon

In retrospect I probably should have had lessons and worked on technique a lot more, however my only concern was being able to cover the distance I wasn't bothered how ugly my stroke was. After Joey I taught myself to breath bilaterally again literally by practice and asking swimmers for tips. I also added a few hundreds to each session easy until I could do 3k non stop (I had the Lost Sheep in mind). By the end of the season swimming had become one of my stronger legs of the 3 disciplines and 1500 was down to 27 ... next season target 25 yikes :eek:


On the off season now I'm doing one pure technical drills session once a week and a swim with structured sets. I really noticed that my swim fitness went from zero to doing the 1.9k comfortably in sept this year through hard work. After a good few weeks of a layoff from the pool though (nearly 2 months) my swim fitness has dropped dramatically and I struggled to keep up with the group this morning. The drills are helping me think more about technique now and while I'm probably swimming slower it will ultimately have me swimming more efficiently and thus faster next year once I have my fitness back up (fingers crossed).

So to sum all that waffle up, practice one thing at a time until you have a grasp of it. Believe me I swallowed so much water learning to breathe bilaterally I often thought, whats the point. Just when I have that down though, I am shown superman kicking drills and MCOS is gulping pool water once again.....

Carb

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm lucky enough that the one thing that was pushed on us in the non swimmer/beginners lessons in summer, was breathing on the third stroke, so although I still can't get my breath right, I've a habit of wanting to turn for it on the third stroke. Previously, I always had an inclination to turn to my left. It's nice to know that swallowing half the pool isn't unique to me.

I suppose I'm not a million miles of your starting point. I haven't really ventured into the deep end due to my breathing as I don't want to inhale a mouthful of water when I can't get my feet down, but if I could get this mastered, I think I proably have a couple of continuous lengths in me. If 4 days a week in the pool doesn't sort the problem, I may put the TT bike up for sale.:)

catweazle

You are probably ok Carb as you are getting swimming lessons but I self taught myself from about a year ago, I got the Total Immerision Freestyle CD downloaded off Pirate Bay, I would very much recommend it.

I was worried I had a dodgy knee a while back so I did nothing but swimming for a month, swimming has come on in leaps and bounds now these days.

I also got a pull bouy and flippers a month or two ago and these are great as well as I can work longer on my arm technique without my legs getting tired.

I was around 15 minutes swim for the sprints earlier in the year but I have noticed in the pool over the last few weeks I am comfortably holding 1.55 second 5 * 100 metre drills from 2.00 during the summer. I credit this to concentrating on my pull through underwater over the last month or so.

Good luck with your log, I am humming and hawing about what I will do next year, one friend wants to do HM in Barcelona in May and the other friend wants to do full IM in september next year.

I want in between a HM at the end of next season will keep me happy so we will see how it turns out, I will start a log myself when I book the flight to whatever I am doing

DustyBin

Hi Carb
Best of luck with your log and your goals - you're not taking the easy way out anyway
I'll be keeping an eye on your log as I hope to be able to improve my swimming over the winter. I really want to be able to burst out a few Olympic Tri's next year. I did two Duathlon's (sprint distance) and a tri this year, but swimming is bad, really bad.
I've signed up for the Connemarathon too - will be my first marathon - see you there at the top of Hell of the West

jb-ski

Carb wrote: »

Any targets set for the marathon yet and have you any training plan in mind.

One of the great things about this forum is that it's full of of people who have been there, bought the t-shirt. .

Hi, Carb

did DCM on Monday in 3 50, so something similar would
be plan for Conn for now. (will review in February!).
Sticking with Hal Higdon, with lots of help from John O’ Regan.
http://johnoregan.blogspot.com/

I’ve been doing tri’s (all open Water) and various 10K’s, ½ Mara’s since June 2008,
and have been content to be a mid table finisher. I just really enjoy the events.
However I (and Mrs jb-ski) joined a running group in August, and the advice and encouragement we’ve received is incredible. So if there’s a club near you,
join up.

Again I have to say, the dedication and progress of MCOS (and others here) is inspirational.

Roll on the winter training :eek: .

Carb

Another very inconsistent weekend. It was the kid's birthday on Friday, so I couldn't get out to do anything. On Saturday, I would probably be doing myself an injustice to say I did nothing. A 50ft inflatable obstacle course arrived at 10 in the morning, and the best part of the day was spent on this, with the odd break to eat something I really shouldn't. There is nothing like a four year old hyped up on sweets and fizzy drinks to use up your energy.

Sunday, I finally got out to to do something. I tried to follow Tunney's advice in relation to picking a length of time to run for, and disregard the pace/distance. So I decided I'd aim for 1hr 10mins, by running for 35 mins one way, and then come back the same route. So ran for 34 mins (happened to be a junction), and ended up to doing the return in 30 mins. Neither length caused any grief and I should certainly have no hassle upping the duration. Checked mapmyrun this morning and it's about 3.3 mile each way. I actually quite like this route as it is one of the very few realtively flat options I have, so I've no doubt I'll be back on it.

It was downhill after that. after my run I did the exact same thing to my foot as the last time, only this time I was stepping over the hoover rather than going up the stairs. My foot was very sore at times yesterday, but is much improved today. I might be able to chance the bike this evening. Both times now it has happened after taking my runners off immediately after my run (ie wet), so I know to exercise a lot more caution in future.

Third swimming lesson today.

DaveyByrne

Hi all,

I've been doing triathlons for about 4 years. I did the Kenmare H-IM in Sept - what an amazing experience that was!

Since you're trying to get on top of your swimming, I thought I'd share some of my swimming techniques that I have used to bring my friends from absolute beginners to decent swimmers over a matter of a few weeks. I'm not a swim coach, but I've worked out a few things that are beneficial for beginners in my opinion...

1. Breathing: When you run/cycle you are accustomed to fully inflating and deflating your lungs. This is a bad idea while swimming. First, as you start swimming make sure your lungs are at full capacity of air. I mean full to bursting. This will give you excellent buoyancy. Then start swimming, and breathing to one side only. When you look to the left, only breathe out about 1/3 of your lung capacity. Then breathe in very rapidly to re-inflate your lungs. It should take about a quarter of a second to take a quick breath out, and a quick one in.

You see, when you deflate your lungs too much you sink by a few inches, and it makes it harder to get back up for the next breath. By leaving 2/3 of the air in your lungs you avoid this and you stay on the top of the water. Feel free to breathe every second stroke (say, on your left side) while you are getting this technique working. You need to train your cardiovascular system to not rely on gasping huge lungfuls of air. Keep your lungs full of air for as long as you can - shallow and more frequent breaths do the job. If you're feeling out of breath using this technique, relax and lengthen your stroke until you feel comfortable and keep practicing. Eventually it will become second nature.

2. Extend To Air: this little nugget is the key to swimming fast. It goes hand in hand with the breathing - basically avoiding the temptation to pull with your stroke while you take a breath. This wastes the stroke because it's inefficient. When you are sinking because of bad breathing (above), this causes you to pull with your leading arm as you try to get up for the breath, so master the breathing first, and then move onto this and you will be amazed how much you speed up. Here's a Youtube vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LqqNO3WYZ0

3. Swimming drills: This vid will show you about the mechanics of what you should be trying to do in the water:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYt8x_7uL48

4. Kicking: If you are getting out of breath, ease off on the kicking. I've read that about 90% of the propulsion in swimming comes from your upper body so don't worry about kicking much. For the time being use your feet to give you stability. I find that most people who are getting out of breath while swimming are kicking way too much. I keep kicking to a minimum. When I pull with my right arm, I give a kick with my left food for stability, so my kicks are in opposite sequence with my arms... it's like this:

Kicking: LEFT-right-left-RIGHT-left-right

So every third kick is a strong one in sequence with your opposite arm stroke.

5. Closed-Fist Drill: When you've mastered the above, try some closed-fist drills... basically swimming a few lengths with your fists clenched. This will train you to use the rest of your body to propel yourself and is great for building speed. Swimming is not just about your hands and feet - it's about using your entire body to slide through the water (think: Dolphin). Even how you flex and arch your back can provide some propulsion and streamline your way through the water. Closed-fist drills are difficult, but when you go back to normal swimming with your hands open you will feel the extra speed.


Good luck!

dario28

Carb wrote: »

we were working on correcting our stroke, getting rid of the whole overstretching thing. I concentrated on that this morning but as a result, my breathing has gone again

Im in the learning stages as well eyeing up an 70.3 or full for Sept next yr. Ill start lessons next yr but that this book is invaluable

http://www.play.com/Books/Books/4-/449987/Total-Immersion/Product.html?&engine=froogle_books&keyword=Total+Immersion+-+Terry+Laughlin&_$ja=tsid:11518|cc:|prd:449987|cat:Books+%3E+Sports+%26+Games

Also - in it it suggests to reach each stroke as if you are reaching for the wall on your last stroke - not sure why over stretching would be bad - more glide = less strokes ???????

Carb

DaveyByrne wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been doing triathlons for about 4 years. I did the Kenmare H-IM in Sept - what an amazing experience that was!

Since you're trying to get on top of your swimming, I thought I'd share some of my swimming techniques that I have used to bring my friends from absolute beginners to decent swimmers over a matter of a few weeks. I'm not a swim coach, but I've worked out a few things that are beneficial for beginners in my opinion...

1. Breathing: When you run/cycle you are accustomed to fully inflating and deflating your lungs. This is a bad idea while swimming. First, as you start swimming make sure your lungs are at full capacity of air. I mean full to bursting. This will give you excellent buoyancy. Then start swimming, and breathing to one side only. When you look to the left, only breathe out about 1/3 of your lung capacity. Then breathe in very rapidly to re-inflate your lungs. It should take about a quarter of a second to take a quick breath out, and a quick one in.

You see, when you deflate your lungs too much you sink by a few inches, and it makes it harder to get back up for the next breath. By leaving 2/3 of the air in your lungs you avoid this and you stay on the top of the water. Feel free to breathe every second stroke (say, on your left side) while you are getting this technique working. You need to train your cardiovascular system to not rely on gasping huge lungfuls of air. Keep your lungs full of air for as long as you can - shallow and more frequent breaths do the job. If you're feeling out of breath using this technique, relax and lengthen your stroke until you feel comfortable and keep practicing. Eventually it will become second nature.

2. Extend To Air: this little nugget is the key to swimming fast. It goes hand in hand with the breathing - basically avoiding the temptation to pull with your stroke while you take a breath. This wastes the stroke because it's inefficient. When you are sinking because of bad breathing (above), this causes you to pull with your leading arm as you try to get up for the breath, so master the breathing first, and then move onto this and you will be amazed how much you speed up. Here's a Youtube vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LqqNO3WYZ0

3. Swimming drills: This vid will show you about the mechanics of what you should be trying to do in the water:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYt8x_7uL48

4. Kicking: If you are getting out of breath, ease off on the kicking. I've read that about 90% of the propulsion in swimming comes from your upper body so don't worry about kicking much. For the time being use your feet to give you stability. I find that most people who are getting out of breath while swimming are kicking way too much. I keep kicking to a minimum. When I pull with my right arm, I give a kick with my left food for stability, so my kicks are in opposite sequence with my arms... it's like this:

Kicking: LEFT-right-left-RIGHT-left-right

So every third kick is a strong one in sequence with your opposite arm stroke.

5. Closed-Fist Drill: When you've mastered the above, try some closed-fist drills... basically swimming a few lengths with your fists clenched. This will train you to use the rest of your body to propel yourself and is great for building speed. Swimming is not just about your hands and feet - it's about using your entire body to slide through the water (think: Dolphin). Even how you flex and arch your back can provide some propulsion and streamline your way through the water. Closed-fist drills are difficult, but when you go back to normal swimming with your hands open you will feel the extra speed.


Good luck!

Thanks for the tips and support. I'll make sure to give them a go. It does seem to be so much about the breathing.

Dario28 wrote:

Im in the learning stages as well eyeing up an 70.3 or full for Sept next yr. Ill start lessons next yr but that this book is invaluable

http://www.play.com/Books/Books/4-/449987/Total-Immersion/Product.html?&engine=froogle_books&keyword=Total+Immersion+-+Terry+Laughlin&_$ja=tsid:11518|cc:|prd:449987|cat:Books+%3E+Sports+%26+Games

Also - in it it suggests to reach each stroke as if you are reaching for the wall on your last stroke - not sure why over stretching would be bad - more glide = less strokes ???????

I've seen total immersion mentioned a couple of times in book and DVD format. I might look into it.

In relation to the overstretching. I'm referring to my habit of my hand entering the water when my arm is at full stretch. What the lessons are trying to get us to do is lead with the elbow when bringing the hand out of the water at the end of the stroke, keep the elbow high, and point the hand into the waterjust past your head. You then extend your reach just under the surface of the water. Sounds easy when I say it like that.

tunney

Snatch breathing is a terrible idea and if your body position is so poor that this has any effect they you have much much bigger problems. Buoyancy comes from "pushing the buoy", a reasonable kick and a symmetrical stroke. Breathing is tricky, the breathing should be timed to fit seemlessly in with the natural roll of the body from pushing at the back of the stroke. You can overkick however a 4-1 or 6-1 kick is desired, not a 1-1, and a symmetrical kick.

The fisting drill is an excellent drill but some basic understanding of what it is meant to do and how it is meant to work is required.
It has everything to do with teaching you to pull with your forearm and to use you forarm to catch the water, you do need a reasonable kick and body position to do this.
http://www.trinewbies.com/tno_swim/tno_swimarticle_15.asp An excellent tool for fist like swimming are PT paddles, hard to get at the moment but they work.

DaveyByrne

I only recommend the snatch breathing for beginners, until they get the speed to maintain their position in the water... it seems to me that most beginners end up having to stretch each time to get a breath.

Hi elbow forearm catch and rolling in the water are really advanced techniques... but they do work very well. No point in discussing these with beginners until they are swimming well on their own technique.

+1 for Total Immersion - they're great

When you say a 4-1 or a 6-1 kick, does this mean kicks per arm-stroke? I think I do a 3-1 kick... which seems wierd now that I think about it. It works though. Hmmm... are you a swim coach?