Need help and advice

mrs.doubt.fire

Hello, I'm new to the group. I have 2 sons aged 15 and 17. They are quiet country lads. On the rare occasion they go to our local park in town with their friends, they get attacked, kicked, beaten and robbed for no good reason by other teenagers, we do not know who their attackers are. Last Saturday 10th October around 5 in the afternoon, they were in the park again with their friends when they were attacked again, but this time my eldest son and one of his friends needed medical attention and they were brought to causality by ambulance to our local hospital, my son was let sit and wait for 4 hours by his doctor in casualty because his doc had the opinion that my son started the fight, his friend was so badly beaten he had to have his head x-rayed. Both boys are now ok but still suffering from their injuries, my son has a black eye, swollen lip, his right hand is sore and he can not do much with it and pain in his leg from being kicked by his attacker. My son is 17 years old and is 6 foot 4 inches tall but he's a big softy and wouldn't know how to fight back to defend him self. Three months ago he was in the park and was attacked then too, he was with his girlfriend at the time when a teenager came up to him, said something to him, my son wasn't paying attention and replied ''what'' and he was instantly punched in the face, he got a bleeding nose and his nose was swollen for a few days, it was so bad I actually thought he had a broken nose!! On Saturday the boys and their friends phoned the guards and they came to the park but I don't think the guards are going to do anything about it. People living near the park see kids being attacked in this park every other day and they are constantly phoning the guards but obviously nothing is being done and there is no CCTV in the park. I told my boys to stay out of the park, but like typical teenagers they don't listen, but now they are afraid to go back and said they wont go back.
My question is this....what self defense courses should I send by boys to to learn self defense ? It's gone beyond a joke now and if it happens again I want the boys to be able to stand up for them self's if there is a next time.
Hope someone here can advise me what classes my boys can take, we are in Co Laois.
Regards
mrs.doubt.fire

paddyc

personally and i know i might open a can of worms here but id stay clear of self defense classes.

Id go with boxing or judo classes as most townes counties would have them

If your lucky enough to have a BJJ, thai boxing or good kick boxing club, I would look into them as well but i dont know if there any in Laois


failing that get a top link of a massey 135 and slap a few of them round the back of the head


paddy

pearsquasher

Have a thorough read of http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/ .. and then read it again.

Self-defence starts a long time before a physical altercation. This website is required reading at my dojo and doesn't contain any physical advice except to try and escape. But it has tons of useful perspectives.

Dyr

stay away from that park for a start, plus this...

http://www.amazon.com/Little-Black-Book-Violence-Fighting/dp/1594391297/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255424963&sr=8-1

yomchi

Why do you think a self defence art is going to solve your problem?
Clearly the solution to your problem is else where, having your boys take up some form of self defence is only going to prolong the problem and worse, exacerbate it.

The solution lies in avoiding the park. If the park is a bigger problem, then the local residents need to petition the local TD's and Councillors to have it either closed, or have it patrolled more frequently by the Gardai.

The eye for an eye attitude will only make the situation much worse, who knows, to a point where knives and worse are being brought in to settle scores.

This probably belongs in another more relevant forum. I'll let it run for now anyway.

mushin

Self defence / martial arts are ok, but it won't turn yr kids into master fighters over night. And remember that your son giving those kids a beating could escalate the situation. My advice is to bring this to the attention to yr local td's, try to get the other residents to contact the td's also, to increase police presence in the area. If a td puts pressure on the police force, there will be a drastic change

mushin

i see my reply mirrors what was said in the post prior to mine. My apologies, i'm using my phone and don't get instant updates

mrs.doubt.fire

Fist of all I'd like to say thanks to all of you for your quick replies, advice and comments they are much appreciated.
Second, I'm sorry if I posted this in the wrong place, but I'm new to this and I honestly didn't know whear to post for help and advice. My husband and my self were away in America last week and we only got home Monday morning this week, and the boys didn't tell us anything until we got home as they didn't want to worry us while we were away, if I had known about it yes as a mother I would have come home early. To be honest and truthful, I don't expect my boys to be masters of anything after 2 or 3 classes in any type of self defense classes and then go out all guns blazing thinking they can beat up just about anyone, in fact I expect them to be more aware of their surroundings and IF some one comes up behind them again than maybe, just maybe, next time they will get away safely with out being injured as much as they have been injured already. I have told them a million times to stay out the town park as it's just too dangerous to be in there, this was their first time back in the park in 3 months, I visited the garda station this morning and was talking to one of the gardai who responded to their call last Saturday, he said there was 15 youths who attacked my sons and their friends and the gardai are well aware of what's going on at the park and they are currently viewing CCTV from the town camera's to see if they can find anyone fitting the description of some of the attackers. I will bring this to the attention of our local TD's today and see what they say or can do about it, no doubt they will use the recession as an excuse that their hands are tied. Basically at the end of the day, the last thing we need is kids attacked and coming out of the park in body bags.
Thanks all for your help and advice, today I've enrolled the boys and my self in kick boxing classes.

Regards
mrs.doubt.fire

Bygolly

Did Kenpo for the last year in Dublin and enjoy it a lot. Did Thai boxing, boxing, taekwondo, lau gar before that. Also have bit of experience of judo and jiujitsu. Find kenpo to be very useful and practical. Also good for confidence. Most people who practice martial arts never get in to fights in first place as another person already commented. Most of the time it is about your awareness, and pre-fight behaviour. If you exude confidence, people tend to leave you alone. Kenpo in Portlaoise website is www.portlaoisekenpo.com. Don't know what they're like though so best to go to a few classes and see. Found jiujitsu to be very useful too. Might be worth googling to see if any clubs in Laois. Boxing and other competitive sports like MMA will definitely teach your kids how to defend yourself but won't deal with a lot of other aspects that martial arts teach. These are mainly geared towards competition, not street self-defence. Best to keep away from trouble but you can't let these people prevent you from going for a walk in the park either. Martial arts will help build up a confidence which will hopefully act as a subconcious deterrent against thugs. If the deterrent doesn't work, then they'll get what's coming to them. Make sure it's not excessive force either. There are certain laws around self-defence that they should ask their martial arts instructor.
Kickboxing sounds good, but make sure there is a self-defence aspect to it also. Like I said earlier, if it is geared solely towards competition, there are a lot of other aspects that are not taken into account.

Soulcrew09

mrs.doubt.fire wrote: »

today I've enrolled the boys and my self in kick boxing classes.[/font]

Fair play to ye, starting with someting like boxing/K-Boxing is a good start. Agree with those who say to avoid the park and fighting in general but someday your gonna need to be able to give and take a few slaps. Dont let you or them advertise what they are training in for now though. Let them gradually build up their confidence.

Be wary of overconfidence and bruised egos due to good and bad session.

Bygolly

Would recommend purchasing Geoff Thompson's book "Dead or Alive" too. One of the best books written on self-defence/self-protection. Think everyone should read it. Deals with how to avoid as well as fight or flight responses.

judomick

mrs.doubt.fire wrote: »

today I've enrolled the boys and my self in kick boxing classes.

maybe it would be more beneficial to them if they went to these classes themselves, alone......

mrs.doubt.fire

Last night we went to our first kick boxing class, it was fun and we learned a few things. Now don't get me wrong, after one class we are not professionals or anything like it, in fact we are all very sore today from last nights exercises lol Speaking to the boys when they got home from school yesterday and before we went for our first class, I did advise them to keep this quiet about the kick boxing class and not tell anyone, not even to their friends. I do agree with what some of you have said about me doing the classes with out the boys and yes we will be doing classes separately. Some of you have recommended books and web links and yes I'll get those book and the books for teenage boys to read, and I'll check out those web links, thanks for that. As for the local town park, the boys and their friends are staying away from it and they will pay more attention to their surroundings when they are around town. My husband spoke to a local TD today who is a friend of ours and he said the council have had a lot of complaints about that park but the council have no funds available to install CCTV and he said the best thing to do is to say the heck out of there, so yes we will be staying clear of the park. Basically it's a case of ''told ya so'' because I told the boys many times until I was blue in the face not to be going there anyway, but like typical teenagers, sometimes showing is better than telling. :cool: Unfortunately 2 of them ended up in hospital after the last time they were in there, but after last Saturday I think it's safe to say...they have learned their lesson about going to the park.
As for me doing the kick boxing classes, I have thought about doing something for a long time anyway because I often travel to parts of Europe (driving) on my own with just me and my dogs as they are show dogs but they are not attack or guard dogs, they are XL in size but not the fighting type, they are a rescue breed. I have also advised my sons, no matter how many lessons they get and how much they think they know, they should not use it unless they really have too but only enough to break free and run away from the situation and there is no shame in running away, think safety first!!

Many thanks to you all for your advice and help, lets hope we never have to use it, but it's a good way of keeping fit

mrs.doubt.fire

paddyc

why did you not purchase the top link of a massey 135 just in case


anyways getting a few slaps growing up aint no harm at all, I got loads of them and i turned out to be a fully rounded individual


sits back and waits for abuse from khannie the c*ck



paddy

Khannie

paddyc wrote: »

i turned out to be a fully rounded individual

You sure did fatso.

Boston

paddyc wrote: »

anyways getting a few slaps growing up aint no harm at all, I got loads of them and i turned out to be a fully rounded individual

paddy

It instills a level of aggression along with frustration and self esteem issues in young men which can only be tempers (In my opinion) by perpetrating similar acts of violence/aggression. Now that's not too bad when people have a positive channel to focus those energies, but in a lot of cases the kid will move towards negative channels and turn all that rage either against society in the form of any social behaviour or against themselves in the form of self hatred, self harm and isolation. You're a teacher, In your experience you'll probably have noticed that the kids most withdrawn or the angriest were the ones who so saw a lot of violence in their home life. Going to your local park and getting put into hospital isn't character building, its likely to do damage long after the bruises heal.

My view on what your doing Mrs.doubt.fire is that if you're committed to this path, be fully committed. A handful of lessons which give a false impression of ones own abilities is worse then no lessons at all. If they're going to stand and fight next time, give them the best possible change.

Kenpokicks

Hi Ms Doubt Fire

I am a Kenpo Karate Instructor with a Black Belt in kickboxing. I am of course biased toward the art of Kenpo as I love it and train and teach it everyday however I started out in kickboxing, competed at full contact and semi contact and gained a Black Belt in it so I can speak for the pros and cons of it all. Kickboxing is a great sport that will get you fit and give you a great grounding in the basics of fighting. However it is a sport and that is where it falls down. Like every sport kickboxing has rules but when it comes to self defence there are none.
Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not talking about going out there with the intention of seroiusly hurting someone but if it is a real situation you are involved in where you are fighting for your life or at least protecting yourself from serious injury or hospitalisation then it's not a sport you need to be learning. You need a proper self defence system that can offer you more of the answers to the real treat of voilence we are unfortunately faced with more and more these days. Again I am not trying to scare monger here and if you think you are getting all you and your boys need from the kickboxing classes then all the best however I would at least check out some other Martial Arts before fully commiting to it.
Another poster mentioned the Kenpo Club in Portlaoise and gave their web address so I won't repeat it but I would advise you to check them out (I see by their site they do kickboxing too). I know the group and the Instructors there are excellent. A good Kenpo Instructor and indeed any Martial Arts Instructor should be able to do more then just teach you how to fight or defend yourself. They should inspire and instill confidence in you and through this you will be able to avoid conflict although of course, sometimes this is not possible.

Regards
Kenpo Kicks

Khannie

Ok....you're new here, so I'm gonna be gentle about this. We've done the "traditional martial arts versus ring sports" debate to DEATH. Nobody wins. The OP has picked kickboxing. It's a good, pressure tested sport. Let's just leave it at that.