Thumping cars/taxis

coolbeans

OK a bit of a mea culpa here. In the past I have kicked or thumped vehicles, mostly taxis but not always, that cut me up or overtake me without giving me sufficient room as they go by. I've also done this if someone makes a right turn which forces me to take drastic evasive manoeuvres. I know many of you will think me a thug and castigate me accordingly but the amount of times drivers' carelessness has nearly resulted in a nasty injury is ridiculous. Shouting does nothing as they can't hear me in their cocoon so a kick to the bodywork or a less than gentle "tap" on the window is, I think appropriate if the person in question hasn't bothered to account for the fact that they almost crippled me or worse. Opinions? Am I overreacting and giving cyclists a bad name or am I justified in my actions as these, the worst offenders need to realise the consequences of ignoring vulnerable cyclists.

CheGuedara

Should've saved the post for the 16th.:D

Really now, this is just a means of checking if TA is going out tonight or stalking the boards waiting to strike right?

DJ WIPEOUT

Unless they actaully hit you - you'll just be playing into their hands by doing damage to their property.

I know all about the cocoon effect of a car and also how verbals can esily get lost in the noise of all the hustle and bustle that is peak hour traffic.

The best thing I ever did for cycling to work daily was to buy a high pitched battery operated bicycle horn (can be bought from deal extreme or eBay for very little).

I sound it to make drivers aware of my presence on cycle lanes etc. if I feel they are getting too close or not paying attention.

blorg

I certainly have knocked on someone's car if they are basically driving into me, (overtake and immediate turn left sort of thing) it's to warn them I am there rather than an angry thing, flat palm on the side of the car, make maximum noise but least likely to do any damage.

coolbeans

Just to clarify I have no intention of damaging property and it is a bit of a slippery slope but sometimes you just see red when someone seemingly doesn't give a toss about your wellbeing. I just get an awful urge to "learn 'em".

dreamers75

tbh

squod

Got into a couple of p?nchups over that same thing many, many moons ago. F?ck it, those clowns totally deserved a th?mp. If people can't operate a car then tough luck, stop trying to run people over.

coolbeans

HAHA!!!

Beasty

I would not do it for the following reasons:

1. I may do more damage to myself than the vehicle
2. If the driver has been reckless enough to do this to me in the first place, he/she may be inclined to use their vehicle to inflict damage on me and/or my bike
3. I have never had a criminal record, and would not want to risk getting one

I favour the "tap" approach if I want to get my point across

ED E

Gonna fit a hammer under my saddle one of these days. Cut me off, you loose a window.

doozerie

coolbeans wrote: »

Just to clarify I have no intention of damaging property and it is a bit of a slippery slope but sometimes you just see red when someone seemingly doesn't give a toss about your wellbeing. I just get an awful urge to "learn 'em".

Purely from a self-preservation point of view, it is a bad idea. Some people are just pent-up balls of anger and frustration and a perceived assault on their car is more than enough excuse for such people to physically assault you - some car owners would find you pissing in their soup less offensive than a slap on the bodywork. If it does deteriorate into a fight, and the gardai become involved, either or both of you might well be done for assault. And even if things don't escalate, you can be done for criminal damage if you leave any mark on the car. The gardai may or may not see your side of it, but unless you have witnesses to argue that your actions were justified, then you will very likely be successfully prosecuted. And random members of the public, your potential witnesses, are not likely to hang around if they think things are getting potentially violent or, worse, any sympathies they may have for your predicament might disappear if they perceive you as being as aggressive as the driver.

I sympathise, by the way, as I have had a few close shaves myself with drivers who seemed keen to escalate things when I pointed out how they'd nearly mashed me. When things get to that level of tension the whole scenario goes from bad to worse. Aggression just feeds aggression, basically, and the risk of it getting violent soars. I do believe though that it is important to point it out to drivers (and other road users) if they have done something that posed a danger to you, but to be in any way effective (effective = maybe they'll be more careful/considerate next time round) it needs to be done in a non-threatening way. Easier said than done of course, while your adrenalin is pumping following a near miss, but it is worth the effort if the outcome is a driver/road user that'll take more care in future. For those particularly obnoxious people that refuse to acknowledge what they have done, cycle away smug in the knowledge that they lead immature and miserable lives...

tomasrojo

I see the logic of rapping on a car to give a warning, but I don't touch cars at all anymore. I might if it were an emergency where I could see no alternative.

I was waiting behind a car at a red light a few years back, just me and him waiting. The light turned green and after five seconds he still hadn't pulled off. I tapped on the trunk of his car to let him know the lights had changed. He jumped out, fists balled, ready to deck me for "hitting" his car. Incoherently angry.

I suspect he was a bit coked up or something. There was a lot of that a few years ago, by all accounts.

Dr_Colossus

blorg wrote: »

flat palm on the side of the car, make maximum noise but least likely to do any damage.

+1
I often do the above also when someone cuts me off, drives dangerously or drives/parks in a permanent cycle lane. Sometimes the drivers start beeping, rolling down windows shouting abuse etc but in such circumstance I either just grin and cycle on or tell them to learn the rules of the road.
I don't advocate kicking the body work as that's likely to leave damage and have only done so once when a motorist broke a red light at a junction and was driving right at me as if he didn't see me, I had to swerve hard to the right to avoid him and ended up parallel with his front wing which I proceeded to kick.

Lumen

If you have the time and control to thump you have time and control to brake.

tomasrojo

Best to look for exit strategies and forget about the driver if possible. If he's having a bad day, he'll regret his behaviour. If he's typically like this, let someone else deal with him and do any jailtime that goes with it.

DirkVoodoo

I've never done it, but I have had many instances where I have wanted to.

When I drive, if someone cuts you off or does something stupid it's easy to let it slide. On a bike, it seems to be a much more personal affair. Perhaps because of your increased vulnerability you see a chance to lash out physically as the only way to defend yourself.

I can't really hold it against anyone as I can empathise completely, however in the end it is wrong and the brief satisfaction of physical retribution against someone who has wronged you only creates greater animosity between both cyclists and motorists.

keano007

Interesting post and comments but as a cyclist and a Garda mountain bike cyclist, I would say that if u feel in danger for example if u feel a motorist is gonna force you against a kerb or another vehicle which woul result in u getting injured I would say go for it, use an open palm and hit the car to warn the driver! This formed part of the course I done to cycle Garda mountain bikes and was accepted as the proper thing to do

Blowfish

dreamers75 wrote: »

tbh

hmm, expanding on this, we could take the approach of the ancient Persians and fit chariot scythes on the wheels of the bike. Guaranteed to stop motorists who are overprotective of their bodywork from coming too close.

CheGuedara

Blowfish wrote: »

hmm, expanding on this, we could take the approach of the ancient Persians and fit chariot scythes on the wheels of the bike. Guaranteed to stop motorists who are overprotective of their bodywork from coming too close.

Bicycle scythes?



... yea, I wouldn't cut me off if I was me cycling with one of those either!

TimAllen

keano007 wrote: »

Interesting post and comments but as a cyclist and a Garda mountain bike cyclist, I would say that if u feel in danger for example if u feel a motorist is gonna force you against a kerb or another vehicle which woul result in u getting injured I would say go for it, use an open palm and hit the car to warn the driver! This formed part of the course I done to cycle Garda mountain bikes and was accepted as the proper thing to do

I think any cyclist feeling "in danger" would be better concentrating on getting out of danger's way rather than waiting in a dagerous position and hitting a car in some sort of an attempt to avert danger - pretty bad advice:eek:
In any event many posters inferred situations where he/she would hit a car after the event - which would be clearly provocative and possibly a breach of the peace and encouraging a reaction.

NeilMcEoigheann

TimAllen wrote: »

I think any cyclist feeling "in danger" would be better concentrating on getting out of danger's way rather than waiting in a dagerous position and hitting a car in some sort of an attempt to avert danger - pretty bad advice:eek:
In any event many posters inferred situations where he/she would hit a car after the event - which would be clearly provocative and possibly a breach of the peace and encouraging a reaction.

its a don't do that again you idiotic motorist type gesture.
yano the part when a motorist puts your life in danger so they can save 3 seconds on their way home it makes you want to tell them that it was a silly idea. and a trip to the windscreen fitters reminds you more of that....

Planet X

Surely this would keep cyclist back off the cars?

NeilMcEoigheann

Blowfish wrote: »

hmm, expanding on this, we could take the approach of the ancient Persians and fit chariot scythes on the wheels of the bike. Guaranteed to stop motorists who are overprotective of their bodywork from coming too close.

i carry a Ulock in my back pocket its kinda like a sword for the modern commuter.
also this... http://www.instructables.com/community/Contest-Bike-Weapons/

DePurpereWolf

Lightweight and build for the job, therefore more euro.

DirkVoodoo

Does it come in white?

coolbeans

If I did nothing I'm sure the offending motorist would carry on regardless and do the same again to a perhaps less fortunate cyclist. The point of said admittedly provocative reaction is to make sure that they know "going forward " that there are consequences for lack of appropriate attentiveness. It might be legally and ethically questionable but I'm sure it will force people to think twice. And just to make sure I'm understood this kind of reaction is reserved for the worst offenders.

Lumen

coolbeans wrote: »

The point of said admittedly provocative reaction is to make sure that they know "going forward " that there are consequences for lack of appropriate attentiveness. It might be legally and ethically questionable but I'm sure it will force people to think twice. And just to make sure I'm understood this kind of reaction is reserved for the worst offenders.

What makes you think that your lesson is understood?

morninwood

keano007 wrote: »

Interesting post and comments but as a cyclist and a Garda mountain bike cyclist, I would say that if u feel in danger for example if u feel a motorist is gonna force you against a kerb or another vehicle which woul result in u getting injured I would say go for it, use an open palm and hit the car to warn the driver! This formed part of the course I done to cycle Garda mountain bikes and was accepted as the proper thing to do

Good to hear that. My approach exactly.
I only tap cars if they get seriously close and are endangering my life. The other day when I was riding through a roundabout a pick up truck entered the roundabout cutting me off coming ever closer to my left side as if he didn't see me. Gave him the flat palm on the back to alert him about my presence. Lucky it worked and seemingly gave the driver a good fright as the car literally jumped left giving me room to breath.

On most occasions of cars being driven recklessly I cut them some slack (if I don't face immanent death). In all fairness, I jump lanes, red lights and cut off cars every now and then so I think it would be hypocritical to give out about them doing the same thing.

Gavin

morninwood wrote: »

On most occasions of cars being driven recklessly I cut them some slack (if I don't face immanent death). In all fairness, I jump lanes, red lights and cut off cars every now and then so I think it would be hypocritical to give out about them doing the same thing.

Nice.

Karma

I have a lot of personal experience of close calls over the years and everyones experience will be different. It is ok to say what you want but until you are in the NEAR DEATH or serious injury situation, you cant tell me how your going to react. I have tried bells, airhorns(still a bit of fun ) to point out that i am on the road with the other users. I ascess the situation and deal accordingly. when i was younger, the other particpant would be on the end of a bad day starting. Now a bit more chilled.

I react becasue i know the boys will take forever to turn out and/if then i get interagated about what happened, never mind the breaking of the rules of the road by the other party. sure i have broken some so i am understanding but none of mine have hit or left someone injured.

one example: gave out to a van driver for using the bike lane to UNDERTAKE opposite the dept of FA on the green, has a garda outside it. the van driver heard me, slowed down, i went back into the lane and he accelerated to know me down. he caught my back wheel at a angle and went faster as i do not fall(some crazy steering...) but i knew i was out of time and dived off the front of the van(08D******)ford transit, into the dividing plastic pilers in the middle of the road. other road users slowed down but no one cares(fact, get used to it). I look over to the garda watching all of this, makes eye contact and he turns around and walks back to protect his building. I get back on my bike and went after the van driver then. think its a Ford Transit passenger mirror is what he is missing after i caught him. he actions were not a accident, neither were mine as a result.
other people, get a fright because they dont see you, so give them a chance, if they react accordingly, likewise if they turn out to be a dick, get it off your chest and see what happens....

no moral highground in this mather unless you got witnesses.

tomasrojo

I don't think that careless motorists necessarily muse over why a cyclist hit their vehicle or try to see it from the cyclist's point of view.

People on the receiving end of aggression (however justified) entrench rather than change.

DirkVoodoo

tomasrojo wrote: »

I don't think that careless motorists necessarily muse over why a cyclist hit their vehicle or try to see it from the cyclist's point of view.

People on the receiving end of aggression (however justified) entrench rather than change.

I agree. Furthermore, some people are not the most aware at the best of times and smacking their car might not alert them to the cyclist they have nearly run over and startle them into a dangerous reaction. Morninwood said it himself, the van "jumped to the left". How is causing motorists to make dangerous and instinctive movements to an unexpected thump not MORE likely to result in an accident.

I'm all for making people aware, but if you can catch up with them at the lights and try to reason first. Then if they are going to get thick about it, like in Karma's example, do what you must.

Jawgap

keano007 wrote: »

Interesting post and comments but as a cyclist and a Garda mountain bike cyclist, I would say that if u feel in danger for example if u feel a motorist is gonna force you against a kerb or another vehicle which woul result in u getting injured I would say go for it, use an open palm and hit the car to warn the driver! This formed part of the course I done to cycle Garda mountain bikes and was accepted as the proper thing to do

I smack to warn not to extract vengeance!!! I think if you do it when there's no danger (to get back at the driver) you leave yourself wide open to all kinds of problems. Of course not getting into such situations is the best approach, but despite my best efforts I still find on occasion that drivers when they are rushing or not concentrating do silly things - a quick slap on the side of the head vehicle usually brings them back to reality.

Blowfish wrote: »

hmm, expanding on this, we could take the approach of the ancient Persians and fit chariot scythes on the wheels of the bike. Guaranteed to stop motorists who are overprotective of their bodywork from coming too close.

or we could get these - there are days when I'd be tempted, I'd have to admit:)

Hermy

I actually got into a row with a cyclist recently who I mistakenly thought had hit my taxi with his bike. When he explained that he had just thumped the side of the taxi to warn me of his presence all was well as I'd have done the same myself in his position.

Vitamin C

I'm all for letting drivers know cyclists are on the road when they nearly cream/completely cream you. Soccer moms and taxi drivers are lethal.

I got minced by a soccer mom who half overtook me and then turned right straight into me to get little Johnnie **** head to school on time, I was wearing high vis and it was broad daylight so she had no excuse. She just plain wasn't looking at what was going on. Luckily I saw it in time so got away with only a few bruises, the bike was okay too.

I find a good slap on the roof does the job...no damage to the car, loud enough so they get a small fright but quiet enough that they don't crash.

If cyclists keep bending over and taking it up the hoop from motorists then things'll not change. Once a driver gets a small fright with regard to cyclists, they'll look out for them in the future. This is especially important with so many new inexperienced cyclists on the road.

mcgratheoin

I have definitely given quite a few "taps" in my time - for a while there I was dishing them out very regularly at Leeson Bridge - coming along the canal there would invariably be a car stuck in the middle of the road when the lights changed, blocking if not the entire road then at least the cycle path, forcing all the cyclists to move out into general traffic to get around them. A thump on the boot let them know that they had been an idiot.

(In fairness, there'd be no chance of an altercation as I'd be gone along the canal and they couldn't follow )

Poncherello

I think its fair enough to do this in certain situations but please be very careful doing it while you are still moving, no matter how slow.
You can lose your balance very easily. I almost killed myself one morning when I did and fell into oncoming traffic. I learnt a valuable lesson and will never lose my temper again no matter how bad the offence. Its just not worth it.

mockler007

dont go kicking drivers cars, he could be drugged up to the eyes and be carrien a big blade, yes what he did was stupid, very stupid, but your alive,
i would take his reg and ring the garda traffic corp, they do go to drivers houses with complaints, if you havent got a foto memory buy a rocket launcher for your bike, www,afganbay,com

tomasrojo

I tend to agree with mockler007. The way things currently are in Dublin, even raising your voice to a motorist can result in them driving at you.

It's a method I've seen in books (definitely in Richard's Bicycle Book), but the advice in Cyclecraft as far as I remember is the same as Lumen's: your skills and attention are better directed to avoiding trouble in the first place and braking and steering in the second place.

TinyExplosions

Hitting taxis hurts, and I don't recommend it (well, being hit by a taxi hurts -happened to me on Wed, and I still ain't walking right!)

ridertothesea

Open the rear passenger door and keep moving - has been suggested to me although I havnt done it myself. The driver has to get out of his/her car and walk around.

This assumes that the car driver has done something nasty, that its stopped in traffic, and that it doesn't in itself cause likelihood of an incidet.

concussion

You could alway pop up their wipers too.