If our partner gets pregnant are we wrong to ask for a DNA test?

Bottle_of_Smoke

A few months back a friend of mine found out his girlfriend was pregnant. They were on and off at the time and he's fairly young but came around to the idea and was all prepared to be a father. Mother gives birth to a black child despite being white herself.

So guy I know is well aware he's not the father. Thing is though, she convinced him (and probably herself) he was the father even though she was fully aware it could have been someone else. Had the real father been a white man my friend would have been none the wiser and would now be raising another man's child.

I guess this girl thought my friend would have made a better father than the real father. Its in her genetic interest to have the best carer around, so even if your girlfriend/wife seems completely trustworthy, she could have one moment of weakness and cheat. Then the gravity of the situation makes her decide its in the best interests of her child to trick her husband is she knows he'd be a good father.

I can understand a woman being offended by her boyfriend asking for the test, but overall, from reading statistics and evolutionary science - I think we're well within our rights to be granted a DNA test.

star-pants

Not sure if I'm allowed in here.... <_< >_>

But... my view? If you've been on /off or have doubts then yeah I can see why guys would ask for a test and that's fair enough. I can also see how the girl might be a bit insulted if she's not been with anyone else in the breaks but she should be able to see from his POV too.
IF they've been together, no breakups, just guy and girl together exclusively, then I think it's a bit odd to request a paternity test no?

Cookie Jar

Personally if I was with someone constantly and got pregnant and he asked for one, I would be offended of course. I would also question the relationship. As I would always be thinking then "does he trust me" and so on.

If we were on and off I would be offended also but would understand.

Personally I would not be able to raise my child knowing her father might not be her biological father. If there was a chance between two fathers I would demand a DNA check. It is not fair on either parties.

994

star-pants wrote: »

Not sure if I'm allowed in here.... <_< >_>

But... my view? If you've been on /off or have doubts then yeah I can see why guys would ask for a test and that's fair enough. I can also see how the girl might be a bit insulted if she's not been with anyone else in the breaks but she should be able to see from his POV too.
IF they've been together, no breakups, just guy and girl together exclusively, then I think it's a bit odd to request a paternity test no?

Not really, because people cheat all the time. Yes it's expressing mistrust, but it's not always best to trust someone 100%.

KaiserMc

http://w.bloggingbaby.com/2007/04/30/close-to-4-percent-of-men-unknowingly-raising-another-mans-chil/

Woah!! my sympathies to your friend , I hope he has got over the shock. At least he can leave this situation knowing that the child was not biologically his .You mentioned that this couple did not have a stable relationship prior to her becoming pregnant ,the chances of this relationship lasting after the birth of a child would of being fairly slim ,so now if your friend wants to move on with his life he can do so with a clean conscience .

star-pants

994 wrote: »

Not really, because people cheat all the time. Yes it's expressing mistrust, but it's not always best to trust someone 100%.

Well I personally would be highly offended if my longterm partner (without reason) asked for a paternity test, it would make me question the relationship as cookie said.

CathyMoran

Another woman here - I would be upset as my husband and I even work in the same place but otherwise I would understand, if be a bit upset...

Otis Driftwood

star-pants wrote: »

Not sure if I'm allowed in here.... <_< >_>

Why wouldnt you be?



On topic,if the thought of asking my wife/partner to agree to a DNA test ever entered my head,then I would ask myself,WTF am I doing in a relationship with them in the first place.

Seriously,this is one of the most insulting things Ive ever heard.

shellyboo

In an on/off situation where my partner knew I'd slept with someone else, then I'd agree to a DNA test.

In an on/off situation where I hadn't slept with someone else and my partner just didn't believe me... I think I'd leave. I'd never lie about something that huge, and if my partner thought I was capable of that then they don't trust me, or know me at all.

Will

As others said if you are in a steady exclusive relationship I think it'd be highly offensive to ask for a paternity test, however if you are suspicious of your girlfriend then maybe. BUT if you are suspicious why stay with her?

People raise other people's kids all the time, adoption. There was some odd study out too saying nurses mix up kids all the time too in hospital nurseries. Scary or what.

Wonder what your mate did Bottle of smoke. It would be a very difficult situation to be in. Your girlfriend/ex saying the kid is yours and it being clearly someone else's. Dunno if I could deal with that tbh

Gillo

There's really no one correct answer it's got to depend on the situation, that said if a "father" is concerned he does have a right to a test and in fairness it's not to hard to get a swab discretly. Would that be seen as going behind the mothers back?

minidazzler

I would ask depending on what I thought of the girl really at the time.

I already had one girl tell me she was Preggers to freak me out, I demanded one then and started looking into it until she had her period right when I said she would (She maintained she was late).

I'm not bitter at all!!!:P

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Any key?

I guess it all depends on your relationship
I'd be shocked if I was asked for one and really offended and would probably end up raising alot of trust issues.

Bottle_of_Smoke

KaiserMc wrote: »

http://w.bloggingbaby.com/2007/04/30/close-to-4-percent-of-men-unknowingly-raising-another-mans-chil/

Woah!! my sympathies to your friend , I hope he has got over the shock. At least he can leave this situation knowing that the child was not biologically his .You mentioned that this couple did not have a stable relationship prior to her becoming pregnant ,the chances of this relationship lasting after the birth of a child would of being fairly slim ,so now if your friend wants to move on with his life he can do so with a clean conscience .

Well, lets say they did split up but he had no reason to suspect he wasn't the father - that would mean he'd be paying child support for the next 18 years.

From your link -

After reviewing dozens of studies that examined men who are unknowingly raising the children of another man as his own, the University of Oklahoma and a group of British researchers have both determined that the rate of such men among the population is much higher than I think anyone would expect. The Oklahoma team determined that the rate is about 3.85 percent. The British researchers determined it to be 3.7 percent. Either way, there are well over a million fathers in the United States who think their children are biologically related to them, when in fact the are the product of infidelity. So this isn't just about the gap-toothed freaks that are the staples of daytime television talk shows: this is a problem that reaches into all economic strata.

So obviously its offensive and all that, but when you look at these statistics you'd have to wonder if that overides any potential to offend.

nedtheshed wrote:

On topic,if the thought of asking my wife/partner to agree to a DNA test ever entered my head,then I would ask myself,WTF am I doing in a relationship with them in the first place.

That's all very well in an idealist kind of logic, but when you're in the situation yourself and you look at the above studies you have to be very careful.

As I was saying, its in a female's natural instinct to provide the best care for her child, even at someone elses genetic expense. I think many women who would normally never cheat could make a mistake and that combined with a natural instinct to provide a stable father and the cultural instinct not to humiliate herself and her partner - there's a lot of strong logical reasons for her to keep quiet.

star-pants

I see what you mean BOS - about natural instinct etc. And as having never been pregnant, I don't know how that would affect me. But as I am now, I could never lie to my OH about something like that (apart from the fact I'd never cheat) but I would never trick someone into thinking I was pregnant with their child if I wasn't 100% sure, because that's not fair on anyone.

CDfm

I think paternity tests should be mandatory in all custody and maintenance cases.

Paddycrumlinman

It depends on trust. Do you trust your other half?

Jesus, if my kids came out black or Asian or anything else that my white pale Irish skin I would run a mile dragging the dirty whore by the hair behind me!!! :eek:

In the normal run of things should not be a question, but if a lady has given her man a reason to not trust well I feel its in everyone best interest that the truth be known with regards who is the parent of this kid.

Dr Galen

Paddycrumlinman

Tone down the language a little. This is a Gentleman's Club after all.

Thank You Sir

MM

kumate_champ07

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

If our partner gets pregnant are we wrong to ask for a DNA test?

?

CDfm

Paddycrumlinman wrote: »

I

Jesus, if my kids came out black or Asian or anything else that my white pale Irish skin I would run a mile dragging the dirty whore by the hair behind me!!!

There was a daytime TV show in the US called Maury and there was an afro american who gave birth to red haired white kids from an afro american Dad.

And he was the father;)

Bottle_of_Smoke

CDfm wrote: »

There was a daytime TV show in the US called Maury and there was an afro american who gave birth to red haired white kids from an afro american Dad.

And he was the father;)

?? thought blacks/asians didn't carry the ginger gene?

Bottle_of_Smoke

star-pants wrote: »

I see what you mean BOS - about natural instinct etc. And as having never been pregnant, I don't know how that would affect me. But as I am now, I could never lie to my OH about something like that (apart from the fact I'd never cheat) but I would never trick someone into thinking I was pregnant with their child if I wasn't 100% sure, because that's not fair on anyone.

paddycrumlinman wrote:

In the normal run of things should not be a question, but if a lady has given her man a reason to not trust well I feel its in everyone best interest that the truth be known with regards who is the parent of this kid.

Well fair play to you starpants but as I was saying the statistics suggest even those who have given no reason to mistrust have also been the ones cuckholding their partners.

yawnstretch

Yeah as usual men have no rights these days. If you are there for the birth and sign the certs what not and then find out later that youre not the dad it doesnt make a diff - you still have to pay for it for the rest of your life.

Having a test done before the child is born is very unlikely too as its an invasive surgery as far as I know.

Another example of men being raped by society when it comes to children.

helimachoptor

Honestly even if i was married I'd get a DNA test, maybe a bit nuts but there you go.

CDfm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

?? thought blacks/asians didn't carry the ginger gene?

Lots of Irish that went to the US in the 19/early20th century married blacks. I have a few cousins in New Orleans and the genes can throw up in further generations.

Dont forget the Irish were often uneducated foreign farmers and the local freed slaves were often qualified trades people.

biko

I'm not surprised at the female "question the relationship" responses but - if I had a child that didn't look anything like me and my partner refused a DNA test, then I would "question the relationship" too.

Either way, I'd rather having to own up to my partner after the test than raising another man's child as my own from a woman that cheated on me without protection.

Bottle_of_Smoke

CDfm wrote: »

Lots of Irish that went to the US in the 19/early20th century married blacks. I have a few cousins in New Orleans and the genes can throw up in further generations.

Dont forget the Irish were often uneducated foreign farmers and the local freed slaves were often qualified trades people.

I know but I meant physiologically, I just didn't think asians(and assumed blacks also) carried the recessive gene that causes ginger hair/light skin

Bottle_of_Smoke

Actually a quick look on wikipedia says nothing about this. Must stop taking south park as literal truth.

CDfm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Actually a quick look on wikipedia says nothing about this. Must stop taking south park as literal truth.

believe in Maury - its science and educational

Novella

If I was in a stable relationship and got pregnant and my partner asked for a paternity test, tbh, I would be pretty offended. However, if I got pregnant as the result of a ONS or a casual FB relationship, I wouldn't mind as obviously there are no boundaries on sleeping with other people here so I could have slept with someone else and it is perfectly acceptable for a man to want to be 100% sure that he is the father.

Boston

No one seems to have pointed out that the mother has no standing, in my opinion, to stop you as a legal guardian from getting a DNA test. You could do it without her ever knowing, all it takes is a mouth swab from you and the baby, send it off in the mail, wait a couple weeks and then get the results.

edited as on reflection it appeared as if I was giving legal advice.

Dr Galen

would both parents not have to agree?

I've no idea really, maybe you know a bit more about the legal stuffs Boston

Boston

I'm not a legal professional, but its not an invasive procedure and typically for medical procedure you only need one guardians permission to carry them out. Since you're not looking for DNA from the mother, you don't need her cooperation. You can#t DNA other peoples Children or Chidlren you're not a guardian of, since you could then be charged with assault.

Dr Galen

i see.

it's an interesting thought alright. broaching the results with the mother may prove more difficult than actually obtaining the sample

ShooterSF

If I did get someone unfortunately pregnant even in a long-term relationship I would hope they would be happy to have a test done so that I can be certain. It's not just about trust. Stats have shown that about 4% of fathers are raising other people's kids and I would hope my partner would be happy to help me be 100% certain the child is mine.
I wonder if there was a test to see if a guy had cheated would women be so quick to go down the trust path or would they say "why would you be upset if you have nothing to hide."

Boston

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

i see.

it's an interesting thought alright. broaching the results with the mother may prove more difficult than actually obtaining the sample

Well if the child does turn out not to be yours, they do you care how she takes it? On the flip side if you trust your partner so little you're seriously considering DNA testing, changes are you're in the type of relationship where keeping the test a secret should it prove positive, wouldn't be a problem.

LegacyUser

I'm sure many of those 4% cuckolde men trusted their wives/girlfriends 100%. It doesn't mean the baby isn't yours.

scanlas

If I lived in Liverpool flats I'd certainly get a paternity test done, I don't care how much I trusted her, a study in some liverpool flats showed that 30% of fathers there were were raising other men's children due to female infidelity.

CDfm

scanlas wrote: »

If I lived in Liverpool flats I'd certainly get a paternity test done, I don't care how much I trusted her, a study in some liverpool flats showed that 30% of fathers there were were raising other men's children due to female infidelity.

do you have details of the study to back this up?

scanlas

The liverpool study results are at the link below along with many others.

Numerous studies show results of around 30% non paternity or more for various regions but thats usually only in low status regions.

The higher the status the region is the lower the non paternity rates seems to be the trend.

http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk/analysis_and_opinion/choices_and_behaviours/misattributed_paternity.htm


Here's an interesting quote from that site:


Philipp: We blood-tested some patients in a town in south-east England, and found that 30% of the husbands could not have been the fathers of their children....
Killbrandon: Mr Philipp, surely the figure of 30% must be a minimum? What you established was that 30% could not be the children of their mother's husband, not that 70% of them were?
Philipp: Yes, it is a minimum. We were screening some female patients by testing their husbands for their blood groups, because we were interested in antibody formation in correlation with the ABO groups as well as the rhesus groups. From our results we suddenly realised that 30% of the children could not have been fathered by the men whose blood group we analysed.
Stallworthy: What was the extent of that group?
Philipp: Not large - between 200 and 300 women - but large enough to give a great shock.

Gran Hermano

A woman will always be 100% sure the child she gave birth to is hers, why can a man not have the same right to ensure the child he is rearing is his or is 'equality' only selective?

metrovelvet

It's only wrong if it turns out you were wrong to ask for one. And then say you were wrong and then say sorry.

And if you were right, and your name is already on the birthcert and paternity has already been legally established, sue for paternity fraud.

CDfm

metrovelvet wrote: »

And if you were right, and your name is already on the birthcert and paternity has already been legally established, sue for paternity fraud.

What does paternity fraud actually mean - is it a legal term ?

ShooterSF

metrovelvet wrote: »

It's only wrong if it turns out you were wrong to ask for one. And then say you were wrong and then say sorry.

But asking is not an accusation. If anything it could help a father bond with their child because they would know for certain it was theirs.

metrovelvet

CDfm wrote: »

What does paternity fraud actually mean - is it a legal term ?

Yes it is. Its when a mother deliberately lies about the paternity of the child.

CDfm

metrovelvet wrote: »

Yes it is. Its when a mother deliberately lies about the paternity of the child.

is it a criminal charge?

I have never heard of any woman having to repay maintenance wrongly obtained?

metrovelvet

ShooterSF wrote: »

But asking is not an accusation. If anything it could help a father bond with their child because they would know for certain it was theirs.

I dont know. I only know of those cases where it is used as a procrastination device. Either way, without the apology, the mother of your child will probably not look at you the same way again. It's not a great way to start things off. And if you do do it, make sure the proticols are done right, that it is in private, that you are both present and each of you has a witness, that the mother knows what lab you are sending the child's sample to, and that she gets a copy of the results to. And dont send her the bill.

metrovelvet

CDfm wrote: »

is it a criminal charge?

I have never heard of any woman having to repay maintenance wrongly obtained?

It certainly is in the US, and yes she does have to pay the maintenance back and could face prison. It's fraud, like bank or insurance or any other kind.

CDfm

metrovelvet wrote: »

It certainly is in the US, and yes she does have to pay the maintenance back and could face prison. It's fraud, like bank or insurance or any other kind.

is it in ireland? Ive never heard of any prosecutions here.

metrovelvet

CDfm wrote: »

is it in ireland? Ive never heard of any prosecutions here.

I dont know. But it wouldnt be hard to try. If you have been paying maintenance after being lied to about a child being yours, I have no doubt you could sue to get your money back since it was fraudulantly obtained.