Impossible speeding ticket

dragonsgates

I have just been sent a fixed penalty for doing over 70km in a 50 zone in Clonard.

The penalty has a little picture of my reg from the rear with the time and date. I have never exceeded the speed in this area. What are the flaws on their equipment.

Has anyone here legally challenged this as it appears that I have no option but to go to court, risk bigger fine and more points, which is a waste of my time.

Tipsy Mac

Was it your car and were you driving it at the time?

dragonsgates

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Was it your car and were you driving it at the time?

Yes to both questions.

I was not speeding.

r3nu4l

Has your speedometer been checked? Is it working properly?

dragonsgates

r3nu4l wrote: »

Has your speedometer been checked? Is it working properly?

Yea digital km speedo. Ticket has me doing almost 80kmh

Shield

In my experience, those who challenge these usually end up with double the fine and double the points. I suppose you could...

1) Pay a solicitor to allege the camera was faulty on your behalf
2) Pay court costs for an order to compel the council to allow you to inspect the camera
3) Pay for an independent engineer to examine the camera
4) The camera is fine = You are massively out of pocket all of the above

OR

4) The camera malfunctioned = You don't pay the fine

I would imagine your costs would be recoverable... but are you really that sure you weren't speeding?

Tipsy Mac

Do you remember if there was traffic near you overtaking or approaching from the opposite direction at the time?

dragonsgates

psni wrote: »

In my experience, those who challenge these usually end up with double the fine and double the points. I suppose you could...

1) Pay a solicitor to allege the camera was faulty on your behalf
2) Pay court costs for an order to compel the council to allow you to inspect the camera
3) Pay for an independent engineer to examine the camera
4) The camera is fine = You are massively out of pocket all of the above

OR

4) The camera malfunctioned = You don't pay the fine

I would imagine your costs would be recoverable... but are you really that sure you weren't speeding?

Completely positive.

Am I entitled to find out the camera location just by asking. Anyone who travels through Clonard must know this road.

dragonsgates

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Do you remember if there was traffic near you overtaking or approaching from the opposite direction at the time?

There is always Traffic, usually tractors and large artics, and every other type of bus, tipper's, etc.

It is completely unsafe to overtake but people do.

If anyone knows the road, I have been overtaken by a retard in a blue jeep heading west past the school, on the bad bend before the filling station.

Shield

I thought it was a static camera. If it was a gatso van, then you're better waiting on someone from AGS to answer you.

Berty

Have you put larger alloys on your car with the incorrect sized tyres?

This can trick your speedo, digital or analogue.

dragonsgates

Berty wrote: »

Have you put larger alloys on your car with the incorrect sized tyres?

This can trick your speedo, digital or analogue.

No bog standard C3

declan134

Must have been a GATSO. No static camera in Clonard AFAIK

dragonsgates

declan134 wrote: »

Must have been a GATSO. No static camera in Clonard AFAIK

Picture is of the back of my car. So they were parked near moastery inn or outside graveyard facing other way

Wishbone Ash

psni wrote: »

In my experience, those who challenge these usually end up with double the fine and double the points

One cannot be penalised for going to court as it is a legal right. If they lose, they get the standard fine/penalty.

Those who opt to pay early and not challenge it get a 'discount'.

Shield

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

One cannot be penalised for going to court as it is a legal right. If they lose, they get the standard fine/penalty.

Those who opt to pay early and not challenge it get a 'discount'.

This says:

Q. How many penalty points will I get if I am caught speeding?
A. The number of penalty points applicable to speeding is 4, if you are found guilty in a court of a speeding offence. The maximum fine for a first offence is €800. If on the other hand, you opt to pay the fixed charge of €80 within 28 days of the issue of the Fixed Charge notice from the Gardaí, you are effectively pleading no contest and 2 points will be endorsed on your licence record. If you pay within the second 28-day period, the fixed charge increases to €120, and the number of points endorsed remains at 2.

While I see your point, would you not agree that in a way you are being penalised by running the risk of being lashed with a fine of up to €800 just for challenging the FPN? Having said that, unless I had rock solid irrefutable evidence, I'd personally just take the fine and points - which is exactly what the courts want!

Matt Simis

Berty wrote: »

Have you put larger alloys on your car with the incorrect sized tyres?

This can trick your speedo, digital or analogue.

He would have to have gone like 3 sizes over stock to make 77kph appear as 50kph!

MojoMaker

dragonsgates wrote: »

Yes to both questions.

I didn't realise I was speeding can I get off?

Case closed.

Hooch

O/P if your detected by the ROBOT van (new name for GATSO), then firsty it was your car, secondly the date and time are right, thirdly the location is right and lastly the spped detected is most certainly correct. The camera simply will not work if its out of calibration. You, or someone who was driving your car must have been driving over the limit.

Sorry but there is no way out.

Anan1

MojoMaker wrote: »

dragonsgates wrote: »

Yes to both questions.

I didn't realise I was speeding can I get off?

Case closed.

Please don't invent quotes to suit your purpose, the quote function is for quoting something that another poster actually said.

Wibbs

nice guy always wrote: »

O/P if your detected by the ROBOT van (new name for GATSO), then firsty it was your car, secondly the date and time are right, thirdly the location is right and lastly the spped detected is most certainly correct. The camera simply will not work if its out of calibration. You, or someone who was driving your car must have been driving over the limit.

Sorry but there is no way out.

Dunno about the recent vans, but 4 years ago, I was ticketed for doing 80 something KPH by one. Slight problem with this though. The van was parked on my road(regular spot for them, so I knew they were there), less than 200 metres away from my drive which Id just pulled out from and my car was only running on three cylinders due to an electrical fault. I was actually making my way to my mechanic at the time. Even if the car was in tip top nick I would have had to seriously mash it to get close to the speed the equipment claimed. I went to court and it was thrown out. I did have a mechanical inspection/report from the time that showed the car was bollexed though. So i had some proof so to speak. If you don't have anything like that, then pay the fine.

dragonsgates

nice guy always wrote: »

O/P if your detected by the ROBOT van (new name for GATSO), then firsty it was your car, secondly the date and time are right, thirdly the location is right and lastly the spped detected is most certainly correct. The camera simply will not work if its out of calibration. You, or someone who was driving your car must have been driving over the limit.

Sorry but there is no way out.

Thanks for the reply. I am not worried about the €80 fine, or the points as I cannot get them. I am pissed that they are wrong.

Anyone who knows Clonard knows that you cannot do 80kph at 9am with all the traffic.

Can I find where they were located because Clonard going east to Dub has an 80kph zone into a 60kph, then almost immediately a 50kph after garage alongside the school. Then its back to 60 just after Monastery inn and then 80kph within 100 yards (signs hidden behind trees).

Nonoperational

Are you really really sure it was impossible? You could easily be distacted or anything for a minute or two.

Anan1

gpf101 wrote: »

Are you really really sure it was impossible? You could easily be distacted or anything for a minute or two.

I took the liberty of lifting this from another thread:

dragonsgates wrote: »

The 4.7 engine is a hoot. Very hard to keep the right foot sane.

irisheddie85

Can you get a 4.7 litre c3?!?! or maybe does the op drive more than 1car

dragonsgates

gpf101 wrote: »

Are you really really sure it was impossible? You could easily be distacted or anything for a minute or two.

Not in a 50kph zone.

How do I find out where their location was.

C3 4.7 hdi (rear engined):D

Have a few cars and a few bikes so I know when and where your right foot can have fun.

As I said their camera is wrong.

Drummerboy08

Challenge it in Court so OP. So far you havent produced one shred of evidence to suggest the camera was wrong, so I dont know how successful you'll be. But one thing is for sure, discussing it on Boards wont make it go away, in fact your just wasting more time, and will end up with a mandatory court appearence anyhow.

Just pay the fine, and take the points, because deep down I think you know your wrong.

DamoRed

dragonsgates wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I am not worried about the €80 fine, or the points as I cannot get them. I am pissed that they are wrong.

What do you mean about you cannot get the points?

argosy2006

are you sure you were not at 50 mph? which is 70km plus,,, you sure your speedo on car is in kms? sorry if i,m making you look like a dumbass with this theory ,,,

dragonsgates

argosy2006 wrote: »

are you sure you were not at 50 mph? which is 70km plus,,, you sure your speedo on car is in kms? sorry if i,m making you look like a dumbass with this theory ,,,

Please can someone tell me if I am entitled to know the position of the camera in Clonard. These cameras can be affected by wet weather, trucks, and other parked cars.

This is all I want to know

Re read the other posts before asking me more questions.

Anan1

AFAIK, the positions of all possible speed traps are listed on www.garda.ie.

Cuddlesworth

DamoRed wrote: »

What do you mean about you cannot get the points?

I'm assuming no Irish license. So no points.

dragonsgates

Thanks Anan





I have just sent them an email requesting the photo.




Enquiries in relation to a Fixed Charge Offence

If you feel there has been an error with any details on the Fixed Charge Notice, then you should contact the Fixed Charge Processing Office

Please note: While such enquiry is being processed, the time periods involved for payment and nomination purposes as outlined in the Fixed Charge Notice are not suspended.



Photograph Requests

This facility is only available for camera speeding detections (i.e. Fixed Charge Notice where reference number begins S00….). The applicable notices are identified by a cropped photograph of the registration number of the vehicle on the top right of the FCN, just below the reference number of the notice. If you want to get an enlarged copy of the photograph, the request must be made in writing, by fax to 353 504 59844, by post to the Fixed Charge Processing Office, Thurles, Co. Tipperary or by e-mail to npo@garda.ie. The photograph will then be issued by post. Such requests can only be processed for the registered owner or the nominated driver.

The primary purpose of photographs is to identify the offending vehicle, and not the driver. The identification of the driver is the responsibility and legal requirement placed on the registered owner of the vehicle. These photographs are not used to identify drivers, but in some cases, this may be possible. Care must be taken to nominate the correct driver in each instance.

MarkR

Why can't you get penalty points OP?

dragonsgates

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I'm assuming no Irish license. So no points.

mack flyer

I have no problem with a fine but unless people are way over the limit the points system is very unfair..someone with an english license can be caught 50 times and not be put off the road and in theory a guy could drive by a garso van 6 times in a day and be 10 kph over the limit and be banned from driving for a year...
Also i feel lately there is an increased presence of garda on the roads at the minute for speeding..a stealth tax in my opinion..catch the criminals and not the people going to work and bringing their kids to school in the mornings

Hooch

O/P they will tell you the townland but not the exact location, unless you contact the Garda in question....but he doesnt have to tell you exact location.

TestTransmission

Just pay the fine,you're not even getting points ffs

OldmanMondeo

dragonsgates wrote: »

Anyone who knows Clonard knows that you cannot do 80kph at 9am with all the traffic.

Then its back to 60 just after Monastery inn and then 80kph within 100 yards (signs hidden behind trees).

2 things, fist part there, about 80kph at 9am is pure crap. I travel through Clonard everyday and that traffic will try exceed the limit.

Secondly, it is 50kph from the Garage, just at the housing estate past the school and past the Church and Graveyard, and the Monestory Inn. The limit does not increase until the left turn toward the Longwood / Trim road. Thats probably why you got caught. The 80kph is much further down the road.

There has been a clamp down on speeding in Clonard for nearly a year now, if not more.

View Profile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0kSTcUELAY

It happened like this judge....

Rylan

Berty wrote: »

Have you put larger alloys on your car with the incorrect sized tyres?

This can trick your speedo, digital or analogue.

I would have thought that, if anything, bigger wheels and tyres would trick the speedometer into thinking it was going slower. Larger surface area = Less revolutions.

EPM

Rylan wrote: »

I would have thought that, if anything, bigger wheels and tyres would trick the speedometer into thinking it was going slower. Larger surface area = Less revolutions.

Yup. Check this out:

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

-Chris-

dragonsgates wrote: »

If anyone knows the road, I have been overtaken by a retard in a blue jeep heading west past the school, on the bad bend before the filling station.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything...

hi_im_fil

Rylan wrote: »

I would have thought that, if anything, bigger wheels and tyres would trick the speedometer into thinking it was going slower. Larger surface area = Less revolutions.

True, so when you are actually travelling at 100km/h your speedo will read under this at lets say 90km/h. You not knowing about the difference speedo readings due to the tyre will speed up to an indicated 100km/h on your speedo, which will in effect be about 110km/h

Seth Brundle

psni wrote: »

In my experience, those who challenge these usually end up with double the fine and double the points. I suppose you could...

1) Pay a solicitor to allege the camera was faulty on your behalf
2) Pay court costs for an order to compel the council to allow you to inspect the camera
3) Pay for an independent engineer to examine the camera
4) The camera is fine = You are massively out of pocket all of the above

OR

4) The camera malfunctioned = You don't pay the fine

I would imagine your costs would be recoverable... but are you really that sure you weren't speeding?

The equipment is under law assumed to be correct and working perfectly and AFAIK is pretty much immune from question.

nice guy always wrote: »

O/P if your detected by the ROBOT van (new name for GATSO), then firsty it was your car, secondly the date and time are right, thirdly the location is right and lastly the spped detected is most certainly correct. The camera simply will not work if its out of calibration. You, or someone who was driving your car must have been driving over the limit.

Interesting - how will it not work though?

Anan1 wrote: »

AFAIK, the positions of all possible speed traps are listed on www.garda.ie.

Not all - just most of the van locations but they reserver the right to go anywhere else!

Rylan wrote: »

I would have thought that, if anything, bigger wheels and tyres would trick the speedometer into thinking it was going slower. Larger surface area = Less revolutions.

The driveshaft does one revolution as before. The wheel at the end of the shaft also does one revolution. The wheels circumference is larger therefore the car covers a longer distance per revolution!

dragonsgates

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

2 things, fist part there, about 80kph at 9am is pure crap. I travel through Clonard everyday and that traffic will try exceed the limit.

Secondly, it is 50kph from the Garage, just at the housing estate past the school and past the Church and Graveyard, and the Monestory Inn. The limit does not increase until the left turn toward the Longwood / Trim road. Thats probably why you got caught. The 80kph is much further down the road.

There has been a clamp down on speeding in Clonard for nearly a year now, if not more.

Do you know where the van was parked. I had seen a van but it was parked in the 60kph zone.

Also if your point about the fraffic is correct then everyone behind and in front of me will be getting a ticket then too.

dragonsgates

jackncoke wrote: »

Just pay the fine,you're not even getting points ffs

Why should I pay the fine when I wasn't speeding?

-Chris-

They have electronic equipment (according to the above, presumed to be correct under law) that "proves" you were speeding.
You have the assertion that "I never speed at that section".

I'm not sure how you're going to fight this one to be honest...

glanman

I think someones ego is getting in the way.

You deserve points and a fine for speeding around a school. You think you are above the law because you don't have an Irish license. Take this to court and they will ask you why you don't have an Irish license.

AFAIK you should have an Irish license/reg if in Ireland for more than 3 months or something to that effect.

Take your fine and consider yourself lucky, the camera isn't wrong, you are. TBH by the sounds of you in this thread you deserve more of a fine so take it to court and end up paying more and youe legal fees. By the sounds of it though you are the type who will defend yourself:rolleyes:

-Chris-

Let's not let this get personal. Tone down the direct accusations glanman

kippy

Wibbs wrote: »

Dunno about the recent vans, but 4 years ago, I was ticketed for doing 80 something KPH by one. Slight problem with this though. The van was parked on my road(regular spot for them, so I knew they were there), less than 200 metres away from my drive which Id just pulled out from and my car was only running on three cylinders due to an electrical fault. I was actually making my way to my mechanic at the time. Even if the car was in tip top nick I would have had to seriously mash it to get close to the speed the equipment claimed. I went to court and it was thrown out. I did have a mechanical inspection/report from the time that showed the car was bollexed though. So i had some proof so to speak. If you don't have anything like that, then pay the fine.

Hi Wibbs,
This, to me, is an amazing story. Why hasnt it made the national media.
The sheer possibility that these tickets CAN be wrong and SHOULD ALL be challenged in court should be in all the national media.
I would have been under the impression that these devices have to be correct as close to 100% of the time as possible, otherwise they and other devices like them are wide open to court challenges all of the time.
To be honest I was 100% with the people not believing the OP, however after hearing your story thats changed slightly.