New Programme for Government agreed

jhegarty

Just in time for the 9 o'clock news green vote tomorrow.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1009/politics2.html

Liam Byrne

Just watching it, and I'm sickened again!

The only thing that's showing (whether it's the usual bull**** smoke and mirrors I don't know) is they way they're talking about one of the "sticking points" being "political reform & expenses".....

If that was a "sticking point", then the implication there is that the Fianna Failures weren't even remotely interested in cleaning up their rat-infested, self-serving, twisted definition of "honourable".

mikemac

Was to be expected.
Did anyone seriously think the Greens would voluntarily give up power?

The government was elected for a 5 year term and it appears that it is what they will serve, rightly or wrongly

Ah the GP. Even the PD's were less like lapdogs then the Greens are.
And to think in the last general election I hoped the Greens would do well But then I remember a certain promise from them on who they would not form a government with

Ludo

mikemac wrote: »

Did anyone seriously think the Greens would voluntarily give up power?

I was hopeful. Still some hope left that the rank and file members will have more sense than their leaders tomorrow.

Liam Byrne

It's obviously the new Green campaign to save all the rats in Ireland......

Honda08

jhegarty wrote: »

Just in time for the 9 o'clock news green vote tomorrow.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1009/politics2.html

yea they probably agreed a ban on candles, and the motorcar.

also the introduction of invisible ink pens for filling out expense claim forms,

and a free piggy bank for everyone in the audience.:P:P

mikemac

I read somewhere that the rank and file members have a large amount of power in the Green Party.
Sorry, I don't know the exact figures but it's more then 51% I think.

So maybe the members can go against their leadership tomorrow
At least I'd assume the ordinary members aren't as out of touch as their party leaders and know exactly what people feel about them.

bcirl03

Green MUPPETS!

If they were dead in the water before this evening they are 100% gone now after the next GE.

Sand

The negotiations were a bit of theatre for the benefit of the GP membership voting tommorrow - Fianna Fail and GP pretend theres some bitter, hardfought negotiations, the GP leadership emerge victorious, having brought those rascals in Fianna Fail to justice, showed them whose really the boss...its all theatre designed for the GP membership.

Programme for Government was probably agreed in about 5 minutes.. the rest was just for show, to help the GP sell it as a major victory to their members.

Sizzler

Amazing, I'll now try for the lotto numbers tomorrow :rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62467452&postcount=43

starbelgrade

Sand wrote: »

Programme for Government was probably agreed in about 5 minutes.. the rest was just for show, to help the GP sell it as a major victory to their members.

"New Programme for Government?"

"Agreed!"

"Sound, let's go to the pub & catch Bertie on The Late Late".

Sizzler

bcirl03 wrote: »

Green MUPPETS!

If they were dead in the water before this evening they are 100% gone now after the next GE.

You are bang on.

Gormley's balls are probably in a box on Cowans desk, any respect I had for the guy is well and truly gone.

I really do hope their members can see through todays farce and pull the plug tomorrow. But we know they wont.

mikemac

Sizzler speaks the truth

Why wait till the last minute FFS, they knew they had Biffo & Co. on the wrack for MONTHS now. Gormley and Ryan have been talking about the programme for govt for an age, simple stuff, give Biffo your list of demands and go and grab a green tea lads. If he says no its over, simple. Why wait for today?This was an agenda item for sometime.

You can see it already, Greens will get a few concessions but will never reveal the extent of what they really wanted and will come out of it claiming it as some sort of remarkable victory for the party

If that happens, I hope its members are wide to it and bury them tomorrow.

If the Greens hang on they will be wiped out at the next election.
If they collapse the government I can't accurately say what will happen them. I'd say few could predict that. But it's better then hanging on for a few minor and I mean minor concessions from FF.

I hope the rank and file members can sway this. As their leadership are lapdogs to FF!

Sizzler wrote: »

Amazing, I'll now try for the lotto numbers tomorrow :rolleyes:

Don't bother my friend. My syndicate are going to win

Bandit12

Wow what a surprise :rolleyes:. Any lingering respect i had for the greens (and it was'nt much) is now totally gone. They will now get slaughtered in the next GE for stabbing the people in the back and helping FF hold onto power.

dvpower

mikemac wrote: »

But then I remember a certain promise from them on who they would not form a government with

Wasn't that Trevor Sargent promising tht he wouldn't lead them into government?

A promise he kept at great personal expense.

mikemac

dvpower wrote: »

Wasn't that Trevor Sargent promising tht he wouldn't lead them into government?

A promise he kept at great personal expense.

True, fair point
Fair play to the guy for keeping his promise

Liam Byrne

dvpower wrote: »

Wasn't that Trevor Sargent promising tht he wouldn't lead them into government?

A promise he kept at great personal expense.

Bull! The biggest con job of the decade! :rolleyes:

Mr.Micro

Well well well, as predicted the spineless Greens will continue to prop up the shameless FF party in Government. No surprises there. The Greens know that they are finished now and want to hang on to their only shot at Government at all costs. 2 more years of incompetence, like the country needs it

Biggins

Sand wrote: »

The negotiations were a bit of theatre for the benefit of the GP membership voting tommorrow - Fianna Fail and GP pretend theres some bitter, hardfought negotiations, the GP leadership emerge victorious, having brought those rascals in Fianna Fail to justice, showed them whose really the boss...its all theatre designed for the GP membership.

Programme for Government was probably agreed in about 5 minutes.. the rest was just for show, to help the GP sell it as a major victory to their members.

Absolutely...
I can hear them tomorrow from their high stage "we fought long and hard to hammer out what your reading today"
Sickening. O' well - depending how things go tomorrow, they will be paying for it decades at the polling stations.

Trotter

Sickening. I want this shower out. Words are pointless now because as a nation we're locked up and we just lost our shot at parole. Time to serve our sentence now, like we have a choice in the matter. Representation and democracy my eye.

I hear the rats, badgers, and other fur covered 4 legged vermin (and the 2 legged suit wearing vermin) are delighted.

We've scraped the floor of all that is good in Ireland.

jhegarty

I don't see them getting 2/3 tommorow.

brianthebard

What really worries me at the minute is this fur lobby group within the party, depending on the turn up tomorrow they could be between 10 and 25% of the voting voice. There is a very real chance that NAMA will be decided by fur!

Sand

Dont get too pessimistic. We know that the GP leadership were always aiming for that Thelma and Louise style finale in 2012 with the bould boys of the Publlican Party.

So this is'nt surprising. Its theatre, but the Greens leadership and Fianna Fail *are* scared. Hence the theatre over these negotiations, hence JOD being pushed out to avoid him becoming an issue for the Greens membership *but* staying on till Tuesday, just in case.

The Green membership still has to vote. They might have wildly diverging views from their leadership on if the implementation of their policies is a short term race that will be all finished in 2012, or if they want the Green party and Green policies to be viable and electable after that point.

Its quite simple, even for the realpolitick Greens - yeah, if they vote to stay, they might, *might* hold on to help introduce the most harsh budget in living memory ( the government will probably fall over the December budget either way as Fianna Fail backbenchers flee from their constituents...) and then get utterly wiped out. But if they bring down the government, they get some kudos and respect for doing so and can enter the General Election with clear blue water between them and Fianna Fail whilst angling to earn a spot in the Rainbow 2.0 government.

Macha

Sand wrote: »

The negotiations were a bit of theatre for the benefit of the GP membership voting tommorrow - Fianna Fail and GP pretend theres some bitter, hardfought negotiations, the GP leadership emerge victorious, having brought those rascals in Fianna Fail to justice, showed them whose really the boss...its all theatre designed for the GP membership.

Programme for Government was probably agreed in about 5 minutes.. the rest was just for show, to help the GP sell it as a major victory to their members.

Sorry but this is all factually incorrect, as much as you and other posters are dying to believe it.

Mr. Incognito

I'm an ex green- they would have been wiped out if they pulled the plug- I'm going to reserve judgement until I see the terms they've extracted from Fianna Fail.

With the bleeding of a few fianna fail backbenchers they would have to have extracted major concessions.

Sand

Sorry but this is all factually incorrect, as much as you and other posters are dying to believe it.

Ah yeah, I know - It was a fierce battle, the Greens returning like glorious heroes with incredible concessions from those reprobates...nudge, nudge, wink,wink.

Macha

Sand wrote: »

Ah yeah, I know - It was a fierce battle, the Greens returning like glorious heroes with incredible concessions from those reprobates...nudge, nudge, wink,wink.

Again, you can hint and suggest all you want but the facts remain the facts.

Mr.Micro

The Greens probably begged FF to keep them on and then the biggest decision of the day was who should leave first.

Dampsquid

The last Green party programme for government:

Environment

* Set a target for reduction of 3% per year on average in Irish greenhouse gas emissions.

* Mandate the Dept of Environment to publish an annual report setting out progress on meeting climate change targets.

* Review and renew the role of the EPA

* Establish Climate Change commission

* Introduce Noise Bill

* Require carbon offsetting of all official air travel in support of urban forests.



Energy

* Dramatically accelerate the growth of renewable energy sources in the electricity, heat and transport sectors of the economy. One third of all electricity consumed will come from renewable energy by 2020.

* Devise a price support scheme to support and encourage investment in the development of wave and tidal power.

* Introduce new national building standards in 2007 to ensure that new housing has 40% lower heat energy demand than existing building standards and revise them again in 2010 to achieve a 60% target in further years.

* Introduce new National Attic and Wall Insulation Grant Scheme worth €100m.

* Ensure that the ESB installs a new smart electronic meter in every home in the country which will allow people to reduce their bills by cutting back on unnecessary use of electricity.

* Work with the European Commission and other national grid operators to develop an offshore wind farm grid connection system to power the rest of Europe.

* Provide substantial financial support to improve the energy efficiency of existing public housing and assist those on low incomes to avoid fuel poverty.



Transport

* Multi-criteria analysis of all transport projects to take into account environmental factors on a whole project basis.

* Bring into being a National Transport Regulator after bringing into being a Dublin Transport Authority.

* Substantially improve and expand the Luas service in Dublin.

* Establish and support the work of the Dublin Transport Authority to oversee strategic planning, infrastructure, services, fares, routes and traffic management.

* Reopen Western rail Corridor from Ennis to Claremorris.

* Opening the Navan rail line.

* Opening Cork-Midleton rail service, provide a commuter rail service between Galway and Athenry.

* Conduct feasibility studies, to be completed within two years, into the Luas-style light rail systems in Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford.



Education

* Commit to an additional €350m per year on new service developments in education.

* Provide each child with special needs with the right to an individual Education Plan. In case of autism the Plan will enable them to benefit from a range of teaching approaches.

* Ensure education in road safety is provided at different stages of the school system.

Expand the number of adult literacy training places by 4000.



Taxation Policy

* Setting up a Commission on Taxation to examine the balance of how taxes are collected, the value of taxes reliefs and the introduction of environmental taxes.

* Changes in VAT in relation to environmental goods and services.

* A carbon levy to be introduced during the lifetime of this Government.



Social Partnership

* Environmental organisations to become social partners.

* Comhar - The National Sustainability Council - to become part of the National Economic and Social Development Office, and given an enhanced research role.



Extraordinary Rendition

* The Irish Government is completely opposed to the practice of extraordinary rendition. To that end, the Government will encourage and support An Garda Síochána in the investigation an enforcement of these Statues. It will do this by making resources available for specialised training in the provisions of those Statutes to members of An Garda Síochána and by other means as may be required by An Garda Síochána in order to ensure effective protection for the dignity of all persons within or passing through the State. We will ensure that all relevant legal instruments are used so that the practice of extraordinary rendition does not occur in this State in any form.



Electoral Reform

* Establish an independent Electoral Commission to take responsibility for electoral administration and oversight. It will also take charge of the compilation of a new national rolling electoral register. It will take over the functions of the Standards in Public Office Commission in relation to electoral expenditure and examine the issue of financing of the political system.



Local Government Reform

* We will reform local government making it more transparent and more responsible to its customers. A Green Paper on Local Government Reform will be published with in six months of coming into office. This Green Paper will examine proper balance of power at local levis between the Manager and the elected representatives, the issue of directly elected Mayors/Chairs, the establishment of town councils in those towns that have shown significant population growth in recent years and the provision of quality customer service to the public.

* Directly elected Mayor for Dublin by 2011.

* We will review the operation of local government legislation to ensure that the decision making processes in local authorities are rebalanced in favour of the democratically elected representatives of the people.

* Ensure that there is an acceptable 'buffer period' before civil servants or local government officials can take up employment in related areas of the private sector.

How many of them have been achieved?

Sand

Its zero, isnt it?

But dont worry lads. This time they *really* mean it.

Again, you can hint and suggest all you want but the facts remain the facts.

Who are you trying to convince here?

Macha

Sand wrote: »

Its zero, isnt it?

But dont worry lads. This time they *really* mean it.

Who are you trying to convince here?

Oh sorry don't mind me.

And don't let some pesky facts get in the way of a good ol' misguided rant - it's easier that way.

mikemac

Dampsquid wrote: »

How many of them have been achieved?

Very few if any
They will be slaughtered in 2012 or whenever the next election is.
Best to step away now and save themselves

I heard on the radio they need 66% of their rank and file member to support them tomorrow in order for them to carry on.

66% is a high number and the general members are probably far more aware of the general situation then their leaders.

Here's hoping their member will carry the day tomorrow!

Sand

@Taconnol
Do you really think the Greens can save the planet by 2012? That there wont be any need for a Green perspective or effective representation after that point?

I dont see why the Greens are so eager to ensure that this coalition is their first and probably last chance to effect policy for a generation. You're aligning yourself with a despised government, propping them up. If you think youll have no policy to effect after 2012, if you think that your policy will be sustained by other parties and wont require and continuing oversight after 2012, then grand.

But for a party that prides itself on taking such a long sighted view on so many issues, its ironic that such a short sighted mindset has taken hold with some.

If the Greens stay in, they will be buried. Wiped out. Cease to exist. Devolve to SWP status and influence. The PfG may be spoken of as the longest suicide note in Irish political history.

mikemac

Sand wrote: »

The PfG may be spoken of as the longest suicide note in Irish political history.

Who?

Biggins

mikemac wrote: »

Who?

Was wondering that myself!

Trotter

Programme for Government?

Biggins

Trotter wrote: »

Programme for Government?

DOH! Thanks. Me slow!

Macha

Sand wrote: »

@Taconnol
Do you really think the Greens can save the planet by 2012? That there wont be any need for a Green perspective or effective representation after that point?

I certainly don't think the planet is there to be saved in a few years and sustainable policies will have to feature strongly in any future government. But some posters on here seem to think that it's worth kicking out the Greens just to get back at...Fianna Fail. I call that cutting off your nose despite your face, especially if you take the time to really look at the environmental policies of Labour & FG...not promising.

Sand wrote: »

I dont see why the Greens are so eager to ensure that this coalition is their first and probably last chance to effect policy for a generation. You're aligning yourself with a despised government, propping them up. If you think youll have no policy to effect after 2012, if you think that your policy will be sustained by other parties and wont require and continuing oversight after 2012, then grand.

I'm afraid I can't control the electorate. And if they want to "punish" the Greens then go ahead but don't expect me to respect that sort of logic. What I know is that Eamon Ryan and John Gormley are the two best ministers in this government and many people from every party background agree on that.

The Greens will always be a minority party and will always have to compromise. If our membership can't handle that, then they need to go and take a class on Coalition 101 or go join FG.

Sand wrote: »

But for a party that prides itself on taking such a long sighted view on so many issues, its ironic that such a short sighted mindset has taken hold with some.

I don't see how staying in government to implement some decent bloody environmental policies as they have done over the last few years and most people on here seem willing to pretend never happened. Actually, let me help you with that collective touch of amnesia:

Just in September, when we were campaigning heavily for the Lisbon Treaty, opening new offices and working on the new Programme for Government:

30 Sep 09: Broadcast Authority of Ireland established: New body to regulate and uphold highest standards in broadcasting
28 Sep 09: €500million investment in Irish electricity sector: European Investment Bank helps secure Ireland’s green electricity supplies
27 Sep 09: Guantanamo prisoners arrive in Ireland: Greens welcome the arrival of two prisoners held at the camp, having worked with international human rights organisations to facilitate their resettlement
21 Sep 09: New post code system announced: Introduction will ensure accuracy of postal deliveries and help the emergency services
18 Sep 09: New environment standards for press industry: Magazine and newspaper publishers commit to improved recycling and recovery targets
11 Sep 09: Guidelines announced to prevent the over-zoning of land: New procedures in the Planning and Development Bill will result in improved city and county development plans
9 Sep 09: Fixed support prices introduced for new categories of renewable energy: Govt will pay fixed tariffs for CHP, biomass, wind energy and wave and tidal energy for 15 years
4 Sep 09: Backyard burning targeted in pollution clampdown: €3,000 fine for those who break the law

http://www.greenparty.ie/government/achievements_in_government/rolling_list_of_achievements

But you know, I hate Fianna Fail just as much as the next person and you know I actually WANT FF to stay in power to clean up their mess just ONCE. Last time, they messed it up and Labour/FG came in and sorted it all out and then what happened? They were relegated to opposition for 12 years. I have a genuine fear that it will happen again.

Sure, the Greens will take the hit but I think that the Greens are a party of principle and if it takes us a few years to get over the hit, so be it. The future of the green economy and sustainability of this country is more important.

Liam Byrne

taconnol wrote: »

I certainly don't think the planet is there to be saved in a few years and sustainable policies will have to feature strongly in any future government. But poster on here seem to think that it's worth kicking out the Greens just to get back at...Fianna Fail.

It's not about "getting back at FF"; it's about getting them OUT, before they do any more damage.

And by getting them out, the Greens might manage to get votes next time; but by staying in, they're history.

So the point being made (I think) is that staying in gives them only until 2012 (at most) whereas doing the right thing now would give them a chance to do more by surviving to fight another [election] day.

taconnol wrote: »

I call that cutting off your nose despite your face.

Weirdest phrase ever! Doesn't even make sense the way you said it. Do you even know what the correct phrase is supposed to mean ?

The phrase is "....to spite".

taconnol wrote: »

What I know is that Eamon Ryan and John Gormley are the two best ministers in this government and many people from every party background agree on that.

Incorrect. Eamonn Gilmore was the only one who stuck his neck out and did the right thing this week.

taconnol wrote: »

The Greens will always be a minority party and will always have to compromise. If our membership can't handle that, then they need to go and take a class on Coalition 101.

"Compromise" is the word used for small things. "Selling Out" is the word used for bigger issues, and it won't be forgotten.

There was once a party that jacked up FF in defence of the indefensible, and bottled it when it came to pulling the plug as scandal after scandal came to light.

That party was called the PDs.

Macha

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So the point being made (I think) is that staying in gives them only until 2012 (at most) whereas doing the right thing now would give them a chance to do more by surviving to fight another [election] day.

Personally, I hope the current government stays until, say, June. At that time NAMA will have been finalised, Lisbon will hopefully be finished and the UK general election will be over. I do not think that this is a good time for a general election. What is FG going to do? Reverse all the NAMA decisions and implement their version that, oh yeah, doesn't actually make economic sense?

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Weirdest phrase ever! Doesn't even make sense the way you said it. Do you even know what the correct phrase is supposed to mean ?

I am tired and it was a typo. I'm embarrassed at how childish your comment is.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Incorrect. Eamonn Gilmore was the only one who stuck his neck out and did the right thing this week.

Hate to break it to you - Gilmore will never be Taoiseach.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

"Compromise" is the word used for small things. "Selling Out" is the word used for bigger issues, and it won't be forgotten.

Are you aware the Greens hold 6 seats?

Liam Byrne wrote: »

There was once a party that jacked up FF in defence of the indefensible, and bottled it when it came to pulling the plug as scandal after scandal came to light. That party was called the PDs.

If you can't see the difference between the PDs and the Greens, well, I really don't know what to say.

Sand

I certainly don't think the planet is there to be saved in a few years and sustainable policies will have to feature strongly in any future government. But poster on here seem to think that it's worth kicking out the Greens just to get back at...Fianna Fail. I call that cutting off your nose despite your face.

I do too. I dont agree with the view that the Green Party ought to be the whipping boys for Fianna Fail. The Greens are one of the few (only?) surviving "ideas" parties in Ireland. They could learn a bit from the previous whipping boys for Fianna Fail, the PDs, also an "ideas" party that took the brunt of the abuse for Fianna Fails failings.

They too had the chance to collapse the government over Berties corruption and put clear blue water between them and Fianna Fail. But they chose to stay in after some dramatic acting out. They got annialated. They dont exist anymore.

Now, the Fianna Fail government and Bertie were relatively popular - they returned to power even better off as the PDs took the brunt of public anger. What do you think awaits the Greens in 2012 for deliberately and knowingly propping up a deeply unpopular government?

30 Sep 09: Broadcast Authority of Ireland established: New body to regulate and uphold highest standards in broadcasting
28 Sep 09: €500million investment in Irish electricity sector: European Investment Bank helps secure Ireland’s green electricity supplies
27 Sep 09: Guantanamo prisoners arrive in Ireland: Greens welcome the arrival of two prisoners held at the camp, having worked with international human rights organisations to facilitate their resettlement
21 Sep 09: New post code system announced: Introduction will ensure accuracy of postal deliveries and help the emergency services
18 Sep 09: New environment standards for press industry: Magazine and newspaper publishers commit to improved recycling and recovery targets
11 Sep 09: Guidelines announced to prevent the over-zoning of land: New procedures in the Planning and Development Bill will result in improved city and county development plans
9 Sep 09: Fixed support prices introduced for new categories of renewable energy: Govt will pay fixed tariffs for CHP, biomass, wind energy and wave and tidal energy for 15 years
4 Sep 09: Backyard burning targeted in pollution clampdown: €3,000 fine for those who break the law

In 2012, when youre going door to door canvassing you should tell the people who will be taxed up to their eyeballs paying 9.1 billion to service the national debt alone, plus having to borrow more and more to bail out AIB and BOI again and again about all those triumphs.

Im not saying theyre bad things, but you are truly deluding yourself if you think anyone with some perspective is going to give them much weight against NAMA ( Private gain, socialised loss...) and economic meltdown presided over by Fianna Fail, enabled by the Green party.

In fact, people will actually be furious if you try pretend they count for anything in the face of the tribulations they will be facing under a hated government. The Greens will get wiped out. Their policies will be discredited by their association with Fianna Fail and the hardships visited on people by this government.

Sure, the Greens will take the hit but I think that the Greens are a party of principle and if it takes us a few years to get over the hit, so be it. The future of the green economy and sustainability of this country is more important.

Yeah, the PDs were convinced they had to stay the course as well.

Macha

I'll respond tomorrow Sand as I'm falling asleep here but just to say it's nice to discuss this with a non-hysterical and rational person..!

old boy

the single most important point IS the green ministers and tds will be entitled to goverment PENSIONS come the new year, them guys have discovered the taste of GRAVEY and are not likely to jump off that train, having become addicted, without having access to a big moxey of it.

Liam Byrne

taconnol wrote: »

Personally, I hope the current government stays until, say, June. At that time NAMA will have been finalised

They're going to wait until next JUNE ????? :eek:

hallelujajordan wrote: »

What is FG going to do? Reverse all the NAMA decisions and implement their version that, oh yeah, doesn't actually make economic sense?

Better to have a fair one that doesn't make economic sense than an unfair one that, oh yeah, doesn't make economic sense.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I am tired and it was a typo. I'm embarrassed at how childish your comment is.

It's OK; you've already defended the indefensible, but I'm sorry if I added to your embarrasment.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Hate to break it to you - Gilmore will never be Taoiseach.

Wasn't even being discussed. Fact is that this week Gilmore was the only TD with balls.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Are you aware the Greens hold 6 seats?

Unfortunately, given that the ones in those 6 seats have no sense of fairness.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

If you can't see the difference between the PDs and the Greens, well, I really don't know what to say.

Both propping up corrupt Governments, and getting annihilated as a result ? No difference there that I can see.

Tricity Bendix

I will never understand the pure hatred people have for the Green Party. The Greens didn't put Fianna Fáil back into government, the electorate did. They said they were going to go full term, and now people are saying they've lost all respect because that might actually happen? An awful lot of growing up needs to done around how we view coalition governments.

Liam Byrne

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

I will never understand the pure hatred people have for the Green Party. The Greens didn't put Fianna Fáil back into government, the electorate did.

While it's true that some people were stupid enough to vote FF, many of us voted for the Greens, with part of that decision being based on the fact that they promised not to go into Government with the scum.

And yes, they sold us out immediately by doing precisely that.

If I had thought for a SECOND that they would have gotten into bed with FF, then they wouldn't have gotten a single tick alongside any of their candidates' names.

So they can now either (a) reverse that and regain some credibility and some ground or (b) live with the consequences of that - and tomorrow's - decisions.

Tricity Bendix

Liam Byrne wrote: »

While it's true that some people were stupid enough to vote FF, many of us voted for the Greens, with part of that decision being based on the fact that they promised not to go into Government with the scum.

OK, I'll leave aside the fact that that isn't true and move on to the subjective issue. What should the Greens have done, if not enter government? The numbers in the Dáil were chosen by the electorate. Fianna Fáil had a clear mandate to form a government. So the Greens had the decision to either hold their noses and try and implement as much of their agenda as possible, or to walk away, essentially declaring themselves unfit to govern.

Like I said, the Irish people need to grow up when it comes to their attitudes to coalition governments. The Greens are not to blame for Fianna Fáil being in power.

Liam Byrne

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

OK, I'll leave aside the fact that that isn't true and move on to the subjective issue.

Excuse me ? I gave them a vote or two because they'd promised that. :mad:

Liam Byrne

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

The Greens are not to blame for Fianna Fáil being in power.

Would they, or would they not, be in power if the Greens hadn't gone with them ?

Tricity Bendix

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Would they, or would they not, be in power if the Greens hadn't gone with them ?

Yes, they would.


And I'm not going to get into an argument on the other issue.

av8rirl

Anyone else notice the big grin on Noel Dempsey when they were announcing the news that the new programme for goverment had been agreed??? Or the rest of FF standing behind him laughing away...

I happen to like Eamonn Ryan... and think he is decent enough as a minister... but FF standing beside him laughing and grinning really took the piss... they used to say about the PD tail wagging the FF dog... but this is nothing close... the FF dog is making a mockery of the Green tail!!

I can see why the Greens want to stay in power... its easier to change something if you are working on the inside rather than sitting on the outside... but if they don't take down this sham of a government over the weekend... they'll spend a long long time looking from the outside!!