We're all Spanish on the inside

pickarooney

I came across this extract from a book called "The Origins of the British" by Stephen Oppenheimer (2006). Obviously the title is a little non-inclusive but by the looks of it Roscommon is a Latin enclave on our fair isle.

By far the majority of male gene types in the British Isles derive from Iberia (modern Spain and Portugal), ranging from a low of 59% in Fakenham, Norfolk to highs of 96% in Llangefni, north Wales and 93% Castlerea, Ireland. On average only 30% of gene types in England derive from north-west Europe. Even without dating the earlier waves of north-west European immigration, this invalidates the Anglo-Saxon wipeout theory... ...75-95% of British and Irish (genetic) matches derive from Iberia...Ireland, coastal Wales, and central and west-coast Scotland are almost entirely made up from Iberian founders, while the rest of the non-English parts of the Britain and Ireland have similarly high rates. England has rather lower rates of Iberian types with marked heterogeneity, but no English sample has less than 58% of Iberian samples...

Gone Drinking

Watched a program about this a few months back. They went to this little Spanish town and the people there didn't look Spanish at all. They all looked like Irish/English.

Wazdakka

Desperdicios. I' irlandés de m, no español

nice1franko

buenos dios dos nachos aye aye aye

missmatty

I dunno about Castlerea but I'm from the west coast and we definitely have some swarthy looking folks around

Snowie

my acestry routes come from norwegen and Normandy!

wudangclan

missmatty wrote: »

I dunno about Castlerea but I'm from the west coast and we definitely have some swarthy looking folks around

travellers?

Oh The Humanity

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Watched a program about this a few months back. They went to this little Spanish town and the people there didn't look Spanish at all. They all looked like Irish/English.

I saw that, the Blood of the Irish wasn't it. We're all Basque apparently.

token56

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Watched a program about this a few months back. They went to this little Spanish town and the people there didn't look Spanish at all. They all looked like Irish/English.

It was the one with that gardener I think, Diarmuid something. It was the Basque region of Spain they went to and apparently Ireland has one of the highest percentage of people in Europe who are genetically linked to that particular region. It was actually fairly interesting except for the fact that fool was presenting it.

Edit: Dam beaten to it

wudangclan

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

I saw that, the Blood of the Irish wasn't it. We're all Basque apparently.

speak for yourself.
i'm descended from norman stock.
as soon as i get the funds together i'm going to recapture our ancestral home and lands.

genericguy

wudangclan wrote: »

travellers?

sssh, you'll get banned, frada's not our friend anymore.

wudangclan

genericguy wrote: »

sssh, you'll get banned, frada's not our friend anymore.

is it not the politically correct term?

missmatty

Well they're not, for the record. Maybe a few survived the sinking of a spanish armada ship nearby

Agricola

Look at Rafa Benitez. Hes from La Coruna in north Spain isnt he. He has the biggest Irish head on a fella you'll ever see. Except maybe Brendan Gleeson!

Helix

yeah well feck you spanish feckers, im a viking and proud

Gran Hermano

Cojones, I thought we were all English and proud...

Lollipops23

yeah i've some family from mayo and you'd swear to look at them they were Spanish. although my dad swears blind that our ancestors were french..dunno why!

smodgley

Lollipops23 wrote: »

yeah i've some family from mayo and you'd swear to look at them they were Spanish. although my dad swears blind that our ancestors were french..dunno why!

the french are spanish that crossed the mountains but shhhh dont tell em;)

missmatty

Lollipops23 wrote: »

yeah i've some family from mayo and you'd swear to look at them they were Spanish. although my dad swears blind that our ancestors were french..dunno why!

Our surname is Norman so your dad could well be right. Although I'd say we're all mongrels at this stage

super_furry

My brother had this http://www.familytreedna.com/landing/discover-your-past.aspx done a few years back as a present. Turns out we're vikings!

Bogger77

super_furry wrote: »

My brother had this http://www.familytreedna.com/landing/discover-your-past.aspx done a few years back as a present. Turns out we're vikings!

to be accurate: Your brother is viking, you're just hoping you're related!

Oh The Humanity

We come from the land of the ice and snow,
from the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods
Will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying:
Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar,
Our only goal will be the western shore!

Yippeee! Vikings are hot! :pac: Can't wait to be pillaged !

starbelgrade

If you go to a traditional music festival in Asturias in northern Spain, the music is almost identical to traditional Irish music.

pablomakaveli

Ive some Norman ancestry as well. Rest is Irish though. Unless theres other nationalities further back that i don't know about.

alfranken

It doesn't mean we're basque just the basques and us have the same "ancestry". They are a unique bunch, genetically and culturaly.

starbelgrade

alfranken wrote: »

It doesn't mean we're basque just the basques and us have the same "ancestry". They are a unique bunch, genetically and culturaly.

So they'd have you believe.

MrMatisse

Theres a good few people with the surname Carlos, in Roscommon.

If you google carlos and roscommon you pull up a good few.

Strange but true.

alfranken

Hasn't there been a strong historical link with Spain, think there are prominent politicians with the surname O'Donnell.

Call Me Jimmy

missmatty wrote: »

Our surname is Norman so your dad could well be right. Although I'd say we're all mongrels at this stage

Harvey...?

Lirange

smodgley wrote: »

the french are spanish that crossed the mountains but shhhh dont tell em;)

Depends which part of France. The North east is comprised of descendants of the Franks. A Germanic tribe. Even more scandalous!

Lirange

pickarooney wrote: »

I came across this extract from a book called "The Origins of the British" by Stephen Oppenheimer (2006). Obviously the title is a little non-inclusive but by the looks of it Roscommon is a Latin enclave on our fair isle.

I've read Oppenheimer's work including The Origins. It's important to note that all these studies are contested and there are political undercurrents to it all. Looking at Ireland and Britain the findings often are contingent upon whether the study used maternal mitochondria or paternal Y chromosomes in their DNA analyses. Oppenheimer used the former. Others such as Mark Thomas use Male Y chromosomes which yield very different results. Either way you're only looking at half the picture. Only when looking at both can you piece together a more complete history.

Keep in mind this is Stone Age stuff. Most people in western and central Europe are descended from those that migrated from Iberia and Southern France. Humans did not settle further north than the south of France until the ice retreated. This would be around 7000 BC for Ireland. They took refuge in the southwest and didn't re-settle in significant numbers much further north than the famous Lancaux caves. Even in modern Friesland in Northern Holland where the saxons are thought to originate the mitochondrial markers of the Basque region are ever present. Ireland was not settled by a monolithic people that arrived all at once. It was through successive migrations. First it was the most ancient of Britons that today mark their genetic presence most strongly in Wales. Successive waves of migrations hence came to Ireland from Scotland (The Scotti). The gaelic speaking descendants of which unlike the ancient Welsh (who are thought to have come up the western Atlantic seaboard of France) are thought to have arrived from an area of modern Belgium near the shortest distance across the channel.

Rebelheart

pickarooney wrote: »

I came across this extract from a book called "The Origins of the British" by Stephen Oppenheimer (2006). Obviously the title is a little non-inclusive but by the looks of it Roscommon is a Latin enclave on our fair isle.

Any article that talks about something called the "British Isles" could only have a British nationalist agenda.


PS: If you should look at Dónall Ó Néill's Remonstrance in 1317 you will see that he was very proud of the Spanish origins of the Irish, otherwise known as the Milesians as they claimed descent from the two sons of King Míl of Spain. All true Gaels claim Spanish origin. This is basic Irish history.

PPS: Google 'Milesian'.

starbelgrade

Rebelheart wrote: »

Any article that talks about something called the "British Isles" could only have a British nationalist agenda.

It's a geographic term, not a political one.

Rebelheart

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's a geographic term, not a political one.

Nothing of the sort. Leaving aside the fact that after centuries of occupation of this country under the name of "British", any authentically "geographic" meaning behind that word was entirely lost, the earliest known use of the term was in 1577 by the English-born "British" imperialist John Dee as part of his advocacy of Tudor crown control over Ireland.

Do you research first before blurting out this sort of stuff.

Saying the "British Isles" is "geographic" is akin to saying the Swastika is merely a Hindu symbol of peace. Language use changes, and John Dee was acutely aware of this.

starbelgrade

Rebelheart wrote: »

Do you research first before blurting out this sort of stuff.

I did my research & Wikipedia dispells your argument.

Quint

And all the spanish are moors. So we're all north african

alfranken

Rebelheart wrote: »

Any article that talks about something called the "British Isles" could only have a British nationalist agenda.


PS: If you should look at Dónall Ó Néill's Remonstrance in 1317 you will see that he was very proud of the Spanish origins of the Irish, otherwise known as the Milesians as they claimed descent from the two sons of King Míl of Spain. All true Gaels claim Spanish origin. This is basic Irish history.

PPS: Google 'Milesian'.

Did spain exist 7,000 years ago, is it not that teh spanish and irish share ancestry?

Lirange

Quint wrote: »

And all the spanish are moors. So we're all north african

The Moors came along much later than the time frame we're discussing as did the Romans. But yes modern day Castillians have been greatly influenced by the Moors, culturally and genetically.

pickarooney

Rebelheart wrote: »

Any article that talks about something called the "British Isles" could only have a British nationalist agenda.


PS: If you should look at Dónall Ó Néill's Remonstrance in 1317 you will see that he was very proud of the Spanish origins of the Irish, otherwise known as the Milesians as they claimed descent from the two sons of King Míl of Spain. All true Gaels claim Spanish origin. This is basic Irish history.

PPS: Google 'Milesian'.

That's right pet, you have a nice cup of righteous indignation and off to bed with you.

KungPao

El gallo entró el granero, y recogió su dinero. ¿El propietario era descontentado, porque qué podría este martillo querer?

jayteecork

Ah sure everyone is Irish.
Check out Trapattoni. He looks like any old Farmer from Kerry.

bob123456

pickarooney wrote: »

That's right pet, you have a nice cup of righteous indignation and off to bed with you.

That's some righteous patronization there!:)

vinylbomb

Are we not all Mesopotamians?

Glad thats settled then.

WindSock

Tu Mama.

I'm Gibraltarian.

Rebelheart

starbelgrade wrote: »

I did my research & Wikipedia dispells your argument.

Actually, the wikipedia article on "British Isles" fully supports it. It states, clearly: 'The earliest citation of the phrase "Brytish Iles" in the Oxford English Dictionary[25] is dated 1577 in a work by John Dee.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

And should you drop into the Talk page of that article you will felicitously find that the current discussion there (October 2009) is on the etymology of the term "British Isles" in the political imperialism of John Dee in 1577 and nothing to do with the geography of classical writers. Here's that latest discussion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:British_Isles#Etymology_section

You can also look at the 34 archives of Talk pages (since 2001) for the same article where British nationalists insist Ireland is in something they claim is "geographical" and call the "British Isles" and Irish people reject it with countless historical references.


As I said, please do your research first.

ejmaztec

Rebelheart wrote: »

Actually, the wikipedia article on "British Isles" fully supports it. It states, clearly: 'The earliest citation of the phrase "Brytish Iles" in the Oxford English Dictionary[25] is dated 1577 in a work by John Dee.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

And should you drop into the Talk page of that article you will felicitously find that the current discussion there (October 2009) is on the etymology of the term "British Isles" in the political imperialism of John Dee in 1577 and nothing to do with the geography of classical writers. Here's that latest discussion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:British_Isles#Etymology_section

You can also look at the 34 archives of Talk pages (since 2001) for the same article where British nationalists insist Ireland is in something they claim is "geographical" and call the "British Isles" and Irish people reject it with countless historical references.


As I said, please do your research first.

You've never mentioned John Dee before.:p

starbelgrade

Rebelheart wrote: »

As I said, please do your research first.

I will do exactly as I please.

As for the Spanish being Moors... most of Spain was conquered by the Moors, but they never made it through the mountains of Asturias, where they were stopped by King Pelayo's army.