Guinness "Brewhouse" promotion circa 2006

4zn76tysfajdxp

Hello gang. I seem to remember a promotion Guinness had going on a few years ago where they would brew Guinness using the same methods and ingredients of certain times past called "Brewhouse".

The reason I ask is because I remember hearing that it was supposed to go on for ages, yet they quit after only two or three new-old varieties of Guinness were released.

At the time, I didn't drink Guinness so I despair now at what I missed out on. Can anyone here shed any light on why they stopped this and maybe how the Brewhouse Guinness' tasted in comparison to the original?

BeerNut

Lilah Green Form wrote: »

Hello gang. I seem to remember a promotion Guinness had going on a few years ago where they would brew Guinness using the same methods and ingredients of certain times past called "Brewhouse".

Nope, that was marketing guff. It was thoroughly modern Guinness, only tweaked slightly. If you're interested in genuine old-fashioned Guinness, Foreign Extra is pretty close. It's been brewed to the same gravity since at least 1820.

Lilah Green Form wrote: »

The reason I ask is because I remember hearing that it was supposed to go on for ages, yet they quit after only two or three new-old varieties of Guinness were released.

The plan was six. They did three: Brew 39, Toucan and North Star.

Lilah Green Form wrote: »

Can anyone here shed any light on why they stopped this

Probably because they weren't making any money at it. It's why businesses do most things.

Lilah Green Form wrote: »

and maybe how the Brewhouse Guinness' tasted in comparison to the original?

Almost identical. Reviews here, here and here.

pa990

personally i wasn't able to notice any difference with any of the brewhouse series..

it all tasted the same as regular guinness

oblivious

pa990 wrote: »

personally i wasn't able to notice any difference with any of the brewhouse series..

it all tasted the same as regular guinness

Yea, they appear to great difficulty in diversifying from regular Guinness

Brockagh

I though the Brewhouse one was quite different from regular Guinness, but I may have convinced myself of this. I liked it anyway.

Remember their wheat beer years and years ago? Brau, or something like that.

BeerNut

Breó. The year 2000 is "years and years ago"? Christ, I'm a fossil.

oblivious

There was something strange about Breo, that I found had having more than a few pints

_blank_

The North Star stuff was awful watery.

MediaTank

Brockagh wrote: »

Remember their wheat beer years and years ago? Brau, or something like that.

That was the not so good Breo.

Brockagh

BeerNut wrote: »

Breó. The year 2000 is "years and years ago"? Christ, I'm a fossil.

I thought it was longer than that, but I can't remember for sure. If it's any consolation, I'm 38.

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

Breó. The year 2000 is "years and years ago"? Christ, I'm a fossil.

I'd say twas '98 - I was working in a pub at the time.

BeerNut

Brockagh wrote: »

If it's any consolation, I'm 38.

Thanks, grandpa, it is

Breó was introduced in 1998. It limped along, at one point was withdrawn from pubs and relaunched in a blaze of publicity as a bottled beer for the off trade, and then some time in 2000 IIRC, disappeared forever.

Edit: Swift bit of research from the Irish Times archive: Breó launched 22nd April 1998, reported in the following day's paper. A report of 6th November 2000 says Breó is "being withdrawn", and on November 30th, the Breó brand is described as "ill-fated".

bazwaldo

Remember there was Guinness Extra Cold. In the few years that it existed, I never realised you actually had to ask for it. For all there ads, they never spelt that bit out.

Is it possible to get a colder pint anywhere? I find that a pint is not cold enough for my liking.

BeerNut

Ask your barman for icecubes, just until the pub installs one of those slush machines.

Guinness Extra Cold still exists in the UK.

bazwaldo

BeerNut wrote: »

Ask your barman for icecubes, just until the pub installs one of those slush machines.

Guinness Extra Cold still exists in the UK.

nah, it'll make it too watery

Pity it can't be got here as I never tried it. I don't get to get out too often so tend to put my can of draught Guinness in the freezer for half an hour before opening. Sometimes though I leave it too long and it be becomes a slush puppy. Once the ice has melted, it tastes fantastic

Blisterman

Yeah, in a lot of places here, even in the cold of winter, the only Guinness they serve is extra cold.

the beer revolu

bazwaldo wrote: »

nah, it'll make it too watery

Pity it can't be got here as I never tried it. I don't get to get out too often so tend to put my can of draught Guinness in the freezer for half an hour before opening. Sometimes though I leave it too long and it be becomes a slush puppy. Once the ice has melted, it tastes fantastic

When they first introduced it here many mainstream pubs only had the extra cold version and as I recall you had to specifically ask for the regular Guinness.

It used to give me an 'ice cream headache' and had even less flavour than the regular.

BeerNut

the beer revolu wrote: »

as I recall you had to specifically ask for the regular Guinness.

There used to be a radio ad with a sarcastic barman. "Oh, you'd like it extra cold? Should I drop in some ice cubes or just blow on it?"

4zn76tysfajdxp

BeerNut wrote: »

There used to be a radio ad with a sarcastic barman. "Oh, you'd like it extra cold? Should I drop in some ice cubes or just blow on it?"

I remember another one where somebody asked for Extra cold, which they were given enthusiastically. Then another customer asks for a glass of water and the barman says "What am I, a tap???"

Busted my hole laughing at ten after hearing that one.

noby

Is it an urban myth that when extra cold was phased out they, in fact, kept the chillers dialled down so now 'regular' Guinness is in fact the same temp. as extra cold used to be?

enda1

A lot of places serve guinness WAY too cold unfortunately.
Guinness reps really need to get their act together to ensure a consistent pint.

Brian CivilEng

I always think the sign of a good stout is that it's flavour improves as it warms to room temperature. Unfortunately Guinness doesn't pass this test which is probably why it is served so cold.

Bottled Guinness still tastes good warm though.

Arcto

Ive only seen a north star tap in a sparse few pubs down Cork. Never tried it, forgot about it to be honest

baztard

noby wrote: »

Is it an urban myth that when extra cold was phased out they, in fact, kept the chillers dialled down so now 'regular' Guinness is in fact the same temp. as extra cold used to be?

Yeah I heard that one too. Although my understanding of Guinness Extra Cold was that it was normal guinness with extra nitrogen added to it. This meant that pubs didnt have to turn down the temperature in their keg rooms, which wouls have been unfeasable if you think about it, as all beer kegs would also get colder. More nitrogen meant a whore of a hangover the next morning.

I never understood Extra Cold, there was feck all taste off it. Guinness is nice cold out of a bottle during the summer, put not the draught in a pint glass.

BeerNut

baztard wrote: »

More nitrogen meant a whore of a hangover the next morning.

How does that work then?

cavedave

BeerNut

How does that work then?

You know Nitrogen the element that makes up 78.08% of the atmosphere. It is horrendous you should avoid it at all costs.

BeerNut

Can I get some sort of nitrogen filter mask? Can you sell me one?

Oh god, my hyperventilation is only making it worse!

guildofevil

baztard wrote: »

Although my understanding of Guinness Extra Cold was that it was normal guinness with extra nitrogen added to it. This meant that pubs didnt have to turn down the temperature in their keg rooms, which wouls have been unfeasable if you think about it, as all beer kegs would also get colder.

More nitrogen would not make the beer colder.

If you want one beer served colder than the rest of the beer in your cold room (a lager, for instance) you simply pass it through an in-line beer chiller on the way to the tap. You are effectively passing the beer though a large block of ice just before it hits the glass.

baztard wrote: »

More nitrogen meant a whore of a hangover the next morning.

Now I've heard some unlikely beer myths in my time...

Ice_Box

The toucan stuff was very nice indeed.

BeerNut

guildofevil wrote: »

If you want one beer served colder than the rest of the beer in your cold room (a lager, for instance) you simply pass it through an in-line beer chiller on the way to the tap.

I don't think that's what they did with Extra Cold, though. It was a separate product with a different kegtop (blue rather than red) and one bar manager of my acquaintance said it was definitely a different product. Diageo were definitely selling it as software, though I don't know if there was extra hardware apart from the new tap handle.

When the concept first appeared in 1996, branded as "Coldflow", I remember the marketing guff saying it was exactly the same, except two degrees colder. However, I don't know if Coldflow was a different product from Extra Cold as the pub I worked in at the time refused to stock it.

BaZmO*

I was always under the impression that Extra Cold was just done the way that guildofevil described. Think I was working in a bar at the time too and the only difference was the extra end of line chiller. Although I'm not 100% sure on that.

enda1

BaZmO* wrote: »

I was always under the impression that Extra Cold was just done the way that guildofevil described. Think I was working in a bar at the time too and the only difference was the extra end of line chiller. Although I'm not 100% sure on that.

Does make some sense that it could be just that cause the extra burst of nitrogen decompressing in the injection and beer should cool the beer because a gas decompressing (and instantaneously boiling) lowers in temperature.

Blisterman

In the pub I worked in, they ran the extra cold Guinness through the chiller twice, rather than once for Regular Guinness.

BeerNut

So would the different top just have been a way for Diageo to track sales?

BaZmO*

BeerNut wrote: »

So would the different top just have been a way for Diageo to track sales?

Yeah I suppose it make sense alright as there would be no way of knowing how many were sold otherwise.

guildofevil

enda1 wrote: »

Does make some sense that it could be just that cause the extra burst of nitrogen decompressing in the injection and beer should cool the beer because a gas decompressing (and instantaneously boiling) lowers in temperature.

You are confusing a change in state with a gas coming out of solution. The nitrogen dissolved in beer is not liquid nitrogen, it is a gas dissolved in a liquid, but it is still a gas. All that is happening it a gas going from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration, which will not result in any thermal gain or loss beyond that you would expect for a cold liquid in a warm atmosphere.

Another thing to consider is that there is not actually a very big difference in the concentration of nitrogen in the beer and nitrogen in the air. The Atmosphere is 78% nitrogen, so the nitrogen in the beer tends to just sit there, which is why nitrogenated beers give off less flavour and aroma and why you get a creamy head that lasts to the end of the glass. Carbon dioxide, by contrast is in quite low concentrations in the atmosphere, so it rushes out of solution bringing the flavour and aroma with it.

If gas coming out of solution (as opposed to changing state) caused the liquid to cool down, co2 would be a far more effective chiller than nitrogen as it is far less stable in solution.

enda1

guildofevil wrote: »

You are confusing a change in state with a gas coming out of solution. The nitrogen dissolved in beer is not liquid nitrogen, it is a gas dissolved in a liquid, but it is still a gas. All that is happening it a gas going from an area of high concentration to an area of low concentration, which will not result in any thermal gain or loss beyond that you would expect for a cold liquid in a warm atmosphere.

Another thing to consider is that there is not actually a very big difference in the concentration of nitrogen in the beer and nitrogen in the air. The Atmosphere is 78% nitrogen, so the nitrogen in the beer tends to just sit there, which is why nitrogenated beers give off less flavour and aroma and why you get a creamy head that lasts to the end of the glass. Carbon dioxide, by contrast is in quite low concentrations in the atmosphere, so it rushes out of solution bringing the flavour and aroma with it.

If gas coming out of solution (as opposed to changing state) caused the liquid to cool down, co2 would be a far more effective chiller than nitrogen as it is far less stable in solution.

The nitrogen in the cylinder is a liquid I thought, no?
So its expansion into atmospheric pressure will cause a huge temperature drop as thermal energy must be used to boil the liquid to gas.

Gang of Gin

Lilah Green Form wrote: »

Hello gang. I seem to remember a promotion Guinness had going on a few years ago where they would brew Guinness using the same methods and ingredients of certain times past called "Brewhouse".

The reason I ask is because I remember hearing that it was supposed to go on for ages, yet they quit after only two or three new-old varieties of Guinness were released.

At the time, I didn't drink Guinness so I despair now at what I missed out on. Can anyone here shed any light on why they stopped this and maybe how the Brewhouse Guinness' tasted in comparison to the original?

The Brewhouse Guinness was somewhat of a lite version of Guinness. A tame, almost Beamish-like. I'm not sure which one of the few they released it was but it was only okay, albeit certainly drinkable.

BeerNut

enda1 wrote: »

The nitrogen in the cylinder is a liquid I thought, no?

It's a nitrogen/CO2 mix, and it's a gas in the cylinder. I'm guessing liquid nitrogen is a bit dangerous for Paddy the Drayman to be heaving tanks around.

guildofevil

enda1 wrote: »

The nitrogen in the cylinder is a liquid I thought, no?
So its expansion into atmospheric pressure will cause a huge temperature drop as thermal energy must be used to boil the liquid to gas.

Actually, no. The nitrogen in the cylinder is a gas under pressure (actually a mixed gas of 75% Nitrogen, 25% co2), not liquid nitrogen. Liquid nitrogen requires temperatures and/or pressures which make it dangerous to handle. Not something you want or need in your average pub cellar.

An example of a gas which is shipped in liquid form is LPG. You will be familiar with the yellow Calor Kosangas cylinders. This gas is shipped in liquid form because it doesn't take a lot of pressure to keep it liquid. The reason I mention this is that it illustrates what happens when a liquid changes to a gas.

As the cylinders empties, the pressure drops and the liquid changes to a gas. This happens in the cylinder, so you have a layer of gas sitting on top of the liquid at the bottom of the cylinder. This meas that this is where the thermal change happens. It is the cylinder that gets colder.

Another thing to consider is that the beer comes with the nitrogen already dissolved into it. The mixed gas cylinder in the pub cellar is just there to keep the pressure up in the keg as it empties.

vektarman

guildofevil wrote: »

co2 would be a far more effective chiller than nitrogen as it is far less stable in solution.

This is correct, Guinness Extra Cold had a higher CO2 content than regular Guinness and it's added before keg filling.

mikep

Jeez...all this extra cold talk is making me feel guilty so I'll come clean!
Prior to the introduction of the extra cold I took part in a tasting panel for Guinness...
Once a week for five weeks I and about 20 other guys were given 5 pints to drink and had to complete a questionnaire...As I recall this was during a lovely summer (remember them??) probably 1995, so perhaps we favoured the extra cold as the weather was hot...I vivdly remember the quality of the pints and also the fact that they checked the temps before giving them to us...Best part was we also got paid for it!!! happy days!:D:D

BTW I believe that all guinness is now served extra cold except for in some pubs which kept the old temps...

I personally think it is served far too cold nowadays.