PRTB Charge??

themucaro

Howdy folks,

Probably a stupid question but here goes.

I just moved into a house, one other person was moving out. So we've all to sign a renewed contract as I'm the new guy. The rental crowd are saying I've to pay 70e to the Tenancies board to sign this new contract and register my tenancy. Now I've been renting houses for 8 years and this is the first time I've come across. Is it just a stupid charge because I wasn't moving in originally with the other renters?

Or, as I suspect, is it up to the landlord to pay this?

Thanks for your help with this!

J-blk

Sounds like complete and utter bullsh*t TBH. I've never lived anywhere in Ireland where the tenant is expected to pay for this. PRTB registration is the landlord's responsibility and they are the ones that can be penalized for failing to register you.

But really, since you are replacing another tenant, there seems to be no payment due:

What happens if one of the tenants moves out and is replaced by a new tenant?

Landlords should at the same time notify the Board of any other change to the registered tenancy details e.g. a replacement tenant. No fee is payable for informing the Board of these changes.

http://www.prtb.ie/landlord_pubregfaq.htm#lq14

axer

So is there charges only for the first tenant to enter the apartment/house? I.e. if someone else joins the apartment is there a charge to add them?

J-blk

Well, from the exact same FAQ, it would seem that as long as one of the original tenants remains, the PRTB considers it the original tenancy and no re-registration (and thus fee) is needed:

What do I do if my tenant leaves my rented property?

If your tenant(s) leaves the rented property then it is deemed to be the end of the tenancy. You will need to register with the PRTB the new tenancy within one month of the new tenants moving in. The tenancy registration form is downloadable from this website.

If at least one of the tenants remain in the rented property and the other tenants are replaced by new tenants, then this would be considered an update of the tenancy details. If there is a change of rent you are required to notify the PRTB and when doing so, you are required to advise of any other change of the tenancy details that have arisen in the interim - no fee is payable when providing an update of tenancy details. The tenancy registration form, which is downloadable from this website, can be used for this purpose also.

I would imagine from that, that adding tenants when the original one is still there is also considered just an update to the existing tenancy... I'm sure the PRTB can clarify if you contact them directly but it sure seems that way.

anonymousjunkie

Its the landlord's responsibility to look after this!

D3PO

anonymousjunkie wrote: »

Its the landlord's responsibility to look after this!

Not exactly true. Its the landlords responsibility to ensure registration, there is nothing that says the landlor dmust pay for said registration.

logic says they should, but its not written in stone.

anonymousjunkie

D3PO wrote: »

Not exactly true. Its the landlords responsibility to ensure registration, there is nothing that says the landlor dmust pay for said registration.

logic says they should, but its not written in stone.

Enforcement of registration requirements.

The registration of a tenancy is a legal requirement on the landlord. Landlords failing to register a tenancy may be guilty of an offence and upon conviction shall be liable for a fine of up to €3,000 and/or up to 6 months in prison, along with a daily fine of €250 for a continuing offence.

anonymousjunkie

D3PO wrote: »

Not exactly true. Its the landlords responsibility to ensure registration, there is nothing that says the landlor dmust pay for said registration.

logic says they should, but its not written in stone.

Ah, I see what you're saying. I agree, but I don't think the occupier should be putting themselves in a position where they pay this for this, particularly if its a legal requirement on the landlord.

hobochris

Id refuse to pay it,as A). there is no charge as a poster mentioned early in this thread and b). its the landlords responsibility not yours.I'd threaten to move out if they insist on trying to make you pay this.

seamus

If you sign the lease and on that lease you've agreed to pay the €70 for registration, then you have to pay because that's what you agreed to. But you're not required to pay for it, and if it doesn't specify this charge in the lease, I would refuse to pay it.

themucaro

We emailed the leasing crowd and here's what they said...

"In relation to the €70.00 fee for re- registering the property. This is not a fee which we charge for administrating a new contract, it is a fee that the Private Residential Tenancies Board charge. This fee is paid by the Landlord the first time the property is registered with new tenants, however as explained to Jacinta on the phone yesterday as there are new tenants moving into the property while there is an existing contract in place, this fee is to be paid by the tenants as the Landlord has already paid this fee once for the period of the tenancy."

Looks like I'm goosed?

seamus

Reply to the email with a link to the PRTB FAQ, particularly the part which states:

"If at least one of the tenants remain in the rented property and the other tenants are replaced by new tenants, then this would be considered an update of the tenancy details....no fee is payable when providing an update of tenancy details."

Since there is an existing contract in place, there is no charge from the PRTB to update these details. Sounds like the agent either doesn't have a clue about the PRTB or are trying to screw you for €70.

themucaro

Thanks Seamus, I've emailed the company referring the sections from the PRTB website and

"From my reading of the above there is no charge involved in us moving in as we are replacement tenants, therefore I don’t see why we are being asked to pay an extra 70e each. Furthermore, is it not the landlord’s responsibility in the first place? Perhaps you could get the landlord to ring the PRTB for clarification. I’ve been renting houses in the Castletroy area for 8 years and this is the first time I’ve been asked to pay this fee, which amounts to over a week’s rent, so you understand my concern here."

****************************************

However, I think the issue could be that they're drawing up a new lease for us. Just noticed this at the top of the email they sent my housemate...

"As discussed with Jacinta I explained to her that it is only the new tenants that need to bring their references etc. to the office in order for us to administrate a new Lease Agreement. As a new Agreement will have to be drafted with the new tenants details on same, it will need to be signed by everyone again. However, I understand that you are busy and therefore if only the new tenants come to the office to sign the agreement, we can give them a copy for you to sign at home and you can either post it back to us or drop it back to the office within the month."

Surely they're just updating the existing lease though and switching names. It does sound fishy that they're getting 140e out of us for putting our name on the lease

seamus

No, it's not a new lease, it's an update of the existing lease.

If it was a new lease, then it would be the landlord's responsibility to pay the charge to the PRTB anyway.

Either way, you are not liable for any costs in this.

themucaro

Here's what the agency said:

"I refer to your email of the 12th inst. What you have set out in your email is not what we have experienced in dealing with the PRTB. However, we are quite happy to forward them the new form explaining the change of tenancy. If they return the form requesting a fee we will forward same onto you and then you can take it up with them directly.

Regards,
Gina"

Hmmm, this could run and run...

am i bovvered

This whole situation is crazy... the registration is the responsibility of the Landlord and ONLY the landlord, if in the future there is a dispute the OP could still bring a case to the PRTB even if the tenency has not been registered.
The Landlord MUST register the tenency and as well as a big fine for not doing so, will also be unable to offset any morgage interest relief as a cost.
My advice is do not pay this, you have nothing to gain.

axer

My understanding is there is no charge to add that person now as it is an update. Best bet is to just ring them and make sure.

GalwayGirl23

I understand that but will i be in trouble as I should of added that tenant a
As I should of added that tenant in June 09 , I am a year late?

D3PO

if its the first time nothing will happen to you.

Xiney

stick to your guns & refuse to pay it - even if you are replacement tenants it's not your responsibility to be registered with the PRTB.

Your landlord could get a fine if he didn't pay his car tax, does he expect his mechanic to pay it for him?

themucaro

I forgot to update how this turned out, after emails back and forth, I emailed them the quoted pieces from the legislation that showed they must pay this fee and they gave in. Mad though, you'd think they'd know this, I get the feeling they were chancing their arm anyway to be honest

ams

Definately chancing their arm. You can be sure the landlord was claiming the expense on his tax returns as well.

J-blk

themucaro wrote: »

I forgot to update how this turned out, after emails back and forth, I emailed them the quoted pieces from the legislation that showed they must pay this fee and they gave in. Mad though, you'd think they'd know this, I get the feeling they were chancing their arm anyway to be honest

Good to hear you got it sorted, it definitely seems they were chancing their arm, the PRTB FAQ is pretty clear and I doubt they were simply not aware of the process. Well done for sticking up for yourself and not paying them a cent .