Gun Culture in the US

iwsf

Came accross a reportage on gun culture in the US last night on discovery. This woman went to a gun fair to buy her first pistol. There were guns all over the place. Anyway, they explained that each US state has different laws in regards to gun and if i remember well California has the toughest ones. Take a sit , you need to wait for 2 weeks to be approved to get your gun, a full 2 weeks :mad:.

I do not agree with the gun culture in the US but equaly don't agree with the way things are here in Ireland where hunters like me have to wait for ages to get a rifle license.

daveob007

I saw that last night also,shocked but not surprised.
What i found most disturbing was the fathers day bit where a dad and his kids could go to a range and fire whatever they liked,11 year old kid firing a full auto firearm,any wonder there are so many school shootings and murders.
There was nothing in that program about the sporting aspect of guns,just pure testosterone and gun toting.
This is exactly the culture that the minister stated that he was worried about,WHAT A JOKE we could never ever come close to that.

cavan shooter

You cant compare America even to europe never mind Ireland. Look at Canada and people have guns albeit tighter licenceing and even certain states in america have tight gun control, a 2 hr documentary on deer hunting/pheasant and quail shooting doesnt sell.

A 2 hour documentary on gun toting nut cases does.

To me Its simple if you dont hunt/vermin or game or shoot targets (clay or paper) you dont need a gun.

PJ Hunter

Look at Canada and people have guns albeit tighter licenceing

look another fine mess:p their licensing systems in. no holding back the johnnie cash;) the best computerized license card reading system anywhere. the one good part, the restricted list over there is a list of guns to license, we got, as good as a ban.:pac:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJggEvIlsJ4

Costs

Startup: $2 billion ($200 million/year)Operational: $100 million/year

Non-Compliance

Licencing: 70%Handgun Registration: 70%Long gun Registration: 70%

http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/gunlaws.htm

Grizzly 45

iwsf wrote: »

Came accross a reportage on gun culture in the US last night on discovery. This woman went to a gun fair to buy her first pistol. There were guns all over the place. Anyway, they explained that each US state has different laws in regards to gun and

if i remember well California has the toughest ones. Take a sit , you need to wait for 2 weeks to be approved to get your gun, a full 2 weeks :mad:.

Well theres a clanger in that programme already! It is actually Washington DC.Murder capital USA.Despite the recent Heller case ,it is still technically illegal to own any hand gun in DC.Yet it is easier to buy one at "home boy retail" in any back alley near you.Getting a shotgun or rifle in DC makes our situation look like a doddle.
As for CA,they didnt obviously mention that it is 21 days for a handgun.But then again who really cares what happens in that "liberal" state anymore that is fiscally bankrupt due to its crazy tax and spend policies?

I

do not agree with the gun culture in the US but equaly don't agree with the way things are here in Ireland where hunters like me have to wait for ages to get a rifle license.

Comparing mice and elephants there.Been in gunstores in the US where our entire selection of centrefire pistols have been on display ..In one County!We dont have a second amendment,and trying that arguement that you being a deer hunter to get a rifle liscensegives you no points for que jumping either here or in the US.Where they would refer you to Article 2 and politely ask you to point out where" keep and bear arms for deer or duck hunting only" is written.

Grizzly 45

daveob007 wrote: »

I saw that last night also,shocked but not surprised.

What i found most disturbing was the fathers day bit where a dad and his kids could go to a range and fire whatever they liked,11 year old kid firing a full auto firearm,any wonder there are so many school shootings and murders.

Very thin ice there friend.
How do you make the jump in logic that training your kids to shoot immediately equals a future postal worker or peed off Jock killer in high school???For the amount of firearms owned in the US and kids[in the European sense of the law,not the US,where you are still a child till 18,juvenile til 21] that own them.I'm amazed it doesnt happen more often
We could argue the same point here that teaching your kids responsible and safe gun handling to go shooting here is turning them into potential killers here as well.

There was nothing in that program about the sporting aspect of guns,just pure testosterone and gun toting.

Of course there wouldnt be..Wouldnt want to show anything safe or sane to the general sheeple of the World,that in Gun nut America there are 98% more safe and sane gun owners than nuts.:(

This is exactly the culture that the minister stated that he was worried about,WHAT A JOKE we could never ever come close to that.

What is actually more SCARY is that a man in his position ,power ,and responsibility to the Irish people came out which such a statement in the first place. It would lead anyone with basic cop on and watching his previous and actions to seriously questions the mans competance or ability to hold such a position in the Govt.Not to mind wether he has a full deck of cards.:(

PJ Hunter

cavan shooter wrote: »

You cant compare America even to europe never mind Ireland. Look at Canada and people have guns albeit tighter licenceing and even certain states in america have tight gun control, a 2 hr documentary on deer hunting/pheasant and quail shooting doesnt sell.

A 2 hour documentary on gun toting nut cases does.

To me Its simple if you dont hunt/vermin or game or shoot targets (clay or paper) you dont need a gun.

the powers in justice equality and law reform will need to act soon or the country will be full of unlicensed guns.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Dermot%20Ahern%20Announces%20Introduction%20of%20Criminal%20Justice%20(Miscellaneous%20Provisions)%20Act%202009

PJ Hunter

PJ Hunter wrote: »

look another fine mess:p their licensing systems in. no holding back the johnnie cash;) the best computerized license card reading system anywhere. the one good part, the restricted list over there is a list of guns to license, we got, as good as a ban.:pac:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJggEvIlsJ4


Costs

Startup: $2 billion ($200 million/year)Operational: $100 million/year

Non-Compliance

Licencing: 70%Handgun Registration: 70%Long gun Registration: 70%

http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/gunlaws.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrqT9SIkQw

4gun

Don't know it its true but the Canadians have the same gun ownership per population as the Americans .....they just don't shoot eachother with them:D

Sikamick

I don't know where people are going with this, this not the USA, Australia or Canada this is Little Old Ireland, where the begod and begorrah and shur itll be sorted when we get round to it, still applies.

Sikamick

sharky0922

look at this guys..
this is from US show called Young Turks, its liberal show..
but listen to a report about guns and gun shows, how hard is get a gun! :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2Xh2cRBo9k&feature=sub

sometimes its hard to believe that we live on the same planet

Grizzly 45

4gun wrote: »

Don't know it its true but the Canadians have the same gun ownership per population as the Americans .....they just don't shoot eachother with them:D

Apart from in a couple of Universities,odd form of higher learning you got there EH !:D

Biggest load of sensationilst BULL SHT that video...I'd belive anything Bloomberg or BATFE puts out with a pound of salt.Considering at the beginning of the year they were bleating on about assault weapons being bought in gun shows being used in Mexico's drug wars.When the serial numbers were checked [with a slowness from ATFE] It turned out they were USGovt supplied MILITARY WEAPONS sold to the Mexican Govt,and sold by their own troops and police to the criminals because they are so poorly paid.!!!
The AKs that were supposedly being bought in AZ and the border states turned to be coming from our side of the pond.To wit,Kaliningrad!The Russkies last foot hold in Europe,large naval base,and the gun smuggling,people trafficking,drug dealing , smuggling and generally all round fun place..[Its that bit about the size of Munster& Lenister stuck between Poland& Lithuania].
Sent to Mexico by the Russian Mafika.Not to mind a good few coming up from hot spots like El Salvador or Coloumbia.
Of course THAT minor detail hasnt really been made public either has it???
30% of illegal sales,along with ATFE goons dropping in on gun sales.[You can usually always tell them,they are the ones asking for illegal full auto or silencers,or asking where to get then].
More like 5% and these are deals done outside in the parking lot.

PJ Hunter

first, gangland killings, the reason our politicians wanted handguns controlled. next we dont want a handgun culture like the usa and finally, halting the emergence of a gun-culture in Ireland.

sporting purposes. did they forget something.:rolleyes:


only in america
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn9cX5BaqYc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXBQFtQtUf0

Malaga2

from the perspective of an Irishman living in the US...

Most of the reported gun crime in the US is drug fueled and that violence with some notable exceptions tends to be drug dealer on drug dealer crime. The media reports only on what sells newspapers/tv time...drug dealer crime doesnt sell well...School shootings.. now that does...and are thankfully still a very rare event given that there are over 300+ million living in the US.

All States have their own laws on firearms ownership...it is a fundamental right in most State Constitutions and is listed as second to the Right of Free speach in the Federal Bill of Rights... consider Vermont which has among the most liberal of firearms laws (you do not need a lic to carry a pistol concealed in this State) also has the lowest crime in the Union. http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0210e.asp
FBI Crime analysis shows while there has been an overall increase in firearms ownership the number of violent crimes has actually fallen
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_01.html
.
In Ireland the right of the State takes precedence over individual rights. The "gun culture" that is presented to you by the media is in itself a product that was packaged for your consumption.
Drug dealers and their shootings in Ireland have severly curtailed your rights to firearms ownership and involvement in the shooting sports...by placing the blame on the Irish "gun culture" ...it becomes easier to sell the restrictive package to the public...

Grizzly 45

Double plus one on that Malaga.
Just did alittle research last nite on the "unregulated" gunownership in the USA.
Did you al know there is over 1300 Federal rules[Federal law overrides State law]on gun ownership?And somthing like on average 300 per state law,excluding city and town ordinances per State??
So maybe if they enforced the laws that they have,instead of demanding more laws,maybe their criminality would be a lot less...

PJ Hunter

non restricted and restricted firearms in canada.

restricted, pistols and semi automatic rifles. not all. restricted course for restricted firearms license. no, restricted calibers. machine guns and short barreled / caliber pistols grandfathered.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/rp-eng.htm
http://www.firearmstraining.ca/classes.htm

canadian renewal form http://www.pierrelemieux.org/policecanada/Form_979_2007.pdf

PJ Hunter

pdf fillable forms:), free renewals,:) helpline,:) long guns and personal info, to be changed or off the list.:)
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/form-formulaire/index-eng.htm#f8
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/10/06/f-gun-registry.html

Manic Moran

if i remember well California has the toughest ones.

California has a poor reputation, but a combination of really badly written laws with lots of loopholes (As one would expect from a law written by someone who has no idea what they're talking about) and a few other bits and bobs actually means that California is nowhere near as horrendous as a few other States. Have a look in the gallery thread for some examples of what I own.

As for CA,they didnt obviously mention that it is 21 days for a handgun

Ten, unless I've missed something recently.

Some of the federal laws are pretty whacky also. Silencers are NFA items, highly restricted, whereas in Europe, they're considered polite because they don't disturb the neighbours. American shooters also look enviously at Canadian shooters across the border with their G36s and Tavors and other such firearms which are illegal to be imported into the US.

Can someone explain what a "Gun Culture" is anyway? Does Ireland have a "Beer Culture"?

NTM

Bananaman

There is no point in feeding this discussion.

The 'Culture' referred to by the Minister et al. is the propensity for the criminal fraternity to now wield a firearm - the Minister can do very little about it - therefore he launches a PR campaign and lumps ALL firearms into a 'Gun Culture'. Part of this PR campaign was to invoke 'Orange Status' and tell 'us' that we will end up like Detroit if what he proposed is not done.

Once that was completed he laid waste to the target shooters - but due to the PR campaign - he was attacking 'Gun Culture' - job done.

Not worth arguing the point as you will just be talking to a wall - albeit a crumbly one.

B'Man

Valmont

I have lived in Alaska (the most liberal gun laws) for in 9 months and while the majority of people were safe etc., I met some awful eejits running around with .454's and AR-15 shooting them out their car windows at rabbits and porcupines... the list goes on.

Every place on earth has its fair share of stupid people and when you give them free rein over something as dangerous as a gun, bad things will happen, whether you like it or not.

I checked the 2005 census data for the U.S and it reported over 30,000 fireams related deaths in one year. 17,000 of which were suicides by the way. That leaves almost 15,000 murders and accidents directly involving firearms. How that sort of a statistic is accepted is beyond me.

The gun laws here are terrible. I've done plenty of hunting and shooting in the U.S but I don't even know where to start to get a .22lr here as I don't live on a farm or even know anyone with some land and the gun clubs are awful insular. I intend to head back over there soon anyway.

dCorbus

I checked the 2005 census data for the U.S and it reported over 30,000 fireams related deaths in one year. 17,000 of which were suicides by the way. That leaves almost 15,000 murders and accidents directly involving firearms.

That's an interesting set of statistics - but has to be viewed in the context of the US population of about 305 million people, i.e. 15,000 violent (non-suicide) gun deaths per 305,000,000, if your figure of 15,000 is correct.

You then ask:

How that sort of a statistic is accepted is beyond me.

but go on to state that:

The gun laws here are terrible

So which is it to be?
US-style gun-laws or Ireland-style gun-laws?
Or some far better worked out and far more sensible middle ground?

Interestingly, your figures quoted above indicate that the US rate of incidents / accidents would equate to an annual gun death incident rate in Ireland of 204 deaths for our 4.15 million population. So over a 4 year period, if Ireland was anyway comparable to the US, there should be in or around 816 incidents. While the actual figures in Ireland over the time period 2001 - 2005 there were 73 non-suicide gun deaths (i.e. murder, accidents, etc.) in this 4-year period.

Not exactly a major fallout from the purported "Gun Culture"!?:D

Food for thought? I think so.:D

I don't even know where to start to get a .22lr here as I don't live on a farm or even know anyone with some land and the gun clubs are awful insular.

There is a wealth of information online as to how to get started with .22 shooting in Ireland - This is about the best place to start:)

Like you, I have no access to land either.

6 months ago, I knew nothing about shooting, rifles, or of the various shooting disciplines - Utilising the Amazing Powers of the Interweb and my trusted mobile phone, I contacted a number of people involved in shooting and visited a number of clubs, ranges, and events. At each and every stage of this journey of discovery, I was made exceptionally welcome and my incessant (and probably irritating) non-stop stream of questions was recieved with great patience by everyone (well, almost everyone) I have met and all my questions answered in great detail.

From this, I have now commenced what I am hoping will be a life-long incurable obsession / addiction!

Just get sending out those emails and making those phone calls - post on here - and pretty soon you'll have all the information you need to get started back to the .22 shooting.:)

No need to head back Stateside!;)

(If you need any pointers in the right direction, PM me - I'd be glad to help)