It is time to leave children alone

dragonsgates

We will be having a REFERENDUM to amend the Constitution on children's rights.

One of the most important amendments should be that religious group's are not allowed to indoctrinate children.

Religon should be off the cards until you are 18 and can make an informed adult decision.





http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0520/breaking5.htm

http://article.wn.com/view/2009/09/16/ORourke_expects_horrific_fury_over_any_referendum_on_childre/

PDN

Please don't come in here advocating human rights violations.

The right of parents to educate their children according to their religious beliefs is recognised as a fundamental human right by the United Nations.

If you want to live in a society that bans such things then North Korea would be a good place to go.

MagicMarker

I don't know what the first link has anything to do with the topic? I also see no reference to religion in the second link? Granted I only briefly went through them so I'm open for correction.

As for what you're saying, it seems like common sense really.

I don't believe religion should be ''off the cards'' until you're 18, there's a difference between learning about religion and childhood indoctrination. Teaching children about religion is okay so long as it's done from an unbiased perspective.

No one should have their religion chosen for them.

Stephentlig

what about secular indoctrination from childhood? shouldnt they leave that off the cards until children are old enough to decide for themselves?

MagicMarker

Well I don't know about you but my school didn't have a ''Secularist Education'' class, say secularist prayers every day or perform weekly secularist rituals.

Zombrex

dragonsgates wrote: »

We will be having a REFERENDUM to amend the Constitution on children's rights.

One of the most important amendments should be that religious group's are not allowed to indoctrinate children.

Religon should be off the cards until you are 18 and can make an informed adult decision.





http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0520/breaking5.htm

http://article.wn.com/view/2009/09/16/ORourke_expects_horrific_fury_over_any_referendum_on_childre/

As your issue is about religion in general and a desire to see children free/ignornat of religion (depending on the point of view), surely this is much better suited to the A&A forum or Humanities.

It has little to do specifically with Christianity.

Stephentlig

MagicMarker wrote: »

Well I don't know about you but my school didn't have a ''Secularist Education'' class, say secularist prayers every day or perform weekly secularist rituals.

You mean to say you werent taught to put a condom on in these schools? whether you liked it or not? because thats what happened to millions of Catholic schoolkids ( inlcuding me ) who were not given a say on whether or not they wanted that kind of sex education.

I remember science class, and been taught that we came from a monkey, also we were given the Big bang theory etc etc, theorys that have no evidence to sustain them and theorys that are in opposition towards religious views. shouldnt we leave the kids alone with such theorys? wait until their old enough to decide for themselves? instead of indoctrinating them with such novelty beliefs?

Fanny Cradock

Stephentlig wrote: »

You mean to say you werent taught to put a condom on in these schools? whether you liked it or not? because thats what happened to millions of Catholic schoolkids ( inlcuding me ) who were not given a say on whether or not they wanted that kind of sex education.

I remember science class, and been taught that we came from a monkey, also we were given the Big bang theory etc etc, theorys that have no evidence to sustain them and theorys that are in opposition towards religious views. shouldnt we leave the kids alone with such theorys? wait until their old enough to decide for themselves? instead of indoctrinating them with such novelty beliefs?

OK, this is not going to go down the route of another creationist debate. Keep this on topic, please.

Stephen, I suggest that you actually read up on the RCC stance on evolution and the "Big Bang" before poo-pooing it.

uncleoswald

Stephentlig wrote: »

I remember science class, and been taught that we came from a monkey

I'm guessing you failed that class, right?

You mean to say you werent taught to put a condom on in these schools? whether you liked it or not? because thats what happened to millions of Catholic schoolkids ( inlcuding me ) who were not given a say on whether or not they wanted that kind of sex education.

I don't see how you saying you had a Sex Ed class is the same as having a Secularist Education class, the two do not go hand in hand.

I agree this thread probably belongs in the A&A forum as its not Christian specific.

Stephentlig

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

OK, this is not going to go down the route of another creationist debate. Keep this on topic, please.

Stephen, I suggest that you actually read up on the RCC stance on evolution and the "Big Bang" before poo-pooing it.

what makes you presume that I havnt?

I'll show you the position of the Catholic church on such theoritcal garbage if it is your wish however I know you dont want this spinning off into something else, but any Catholic with the desire to start a new thread on it can do so, and I'll happily respond. as I know there are many so-called catholics out there peddling such garbage, attempting to use the church in order to back their beliefs.

I've already been through these debates with Catholics and the outcome is always the same. however any catholic who thinks the church approves of evolution then take a look a look again because it quite clearly doesnt.

and since we have to stay on topic, what about Santa claus at schools? and halloween? ghouls and ghosts, I didnt have a say in this either, yet we were indoctrinated with such novelty beliefs.

Stephentlig

I don't see how you saying you had a Sex Ed class is the same as having a Secularist Education class, the two do not go hand in hand.

Secular education within schools was imposed upon catholic children and other children alike. a secular education is a secular education period.
It was taught within the schools who agreed to allow such education be given the kids. Whether we be given books of pigs who talk to one another or told of fairytales such as Lord of the rings, santa claus to the easter bunny, Sex ed to evolution and Big bang theory.

fatmammycat

No, that's just called an education. You're still free to practice your faith even if you learn of other things.

fatmammycat

Dragongates, parents should have the right to teach their children as they see fit. While I would agree with keeping religion out of state schools, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a parent passing on their religious belief to their child. I don't see how you could keep religion 'off the card' anyway.

Stephentlig

fatmammycat wrote: »

No, that's just called an education. You're still free to practice your faith even if you learn of other things.

It's an education that is contrary to religious beliefs there for its a ''secular-education". It is still an education that harbours no evidence to sustain it. By teaching such doctrines you do not allow kids to practice their faith, you force them to renounce their beleif of adam and eve and give them a monkey and a banana to chew on instead.

Zombrex

Stephentlig wrote: »

what about secular indoctrination from childhood? shouldnt they leave that off the cards until children are old enough to decide for themselves?

if you think that secularism is a bad and damaging thing, then the answer is yes, surely?

Stephentlig

While I would agree with keeping religion out of state schools,

if you wanna put religion out of schools then lets get rid of evoltion yayyy lets throw out the theorys that have no evidence to sustain them yayyyyy

lets get rid of santa claus and the easter bunny, lets stop teaching the kids how to count using fictional characters such as talking pigs yayyyy

Zombrex

uncleoswald wrote: »

I'm guessing you failed that class, right?

ROFL

Turtwig

Stephentlig wrote: »

It's an education that is contrary to religious beliefs there for its a ''secular-education". It is still an education that harbours no evidence to sustain it. By teaching such doctrines you do not allow kids to practice their faith, you force them to renounce their beleif of adam and eve and give them a monkey and a banana to chew on instead.

Right, we're bordering here...

I had no problem accepting adam and even with the 'monkey', most people don't.
Secular education is the fairest all around because it's lead to an immersion of cultures where otherwise there would be a divide.:)

Honestly, it's when you learn about other religion,cultures and philosophies that the beauty of this world becomes apparent to you. I know many people who have done this and have still retained their faiths, obviously I'm an exception but anyone would easily tell you that we're in the minority.
Secular education and religion usually help each other far more than they hinder anything.

fatmammycat

Stephentlig wrote: »

It's an education that is contrary to religious beliefs there for its a ''secular-education". It is still an education that harbours no evidence to sustain it. By teaching such doctrines you do not allow kids to practice their faith, you force them to renounce their beleif of adam and eve and give them a monkey and a banana to chew on instead.

I"t is still an education that harbours no evidence to sustain it." I don't know what this means. Teaching how to put a condom on? That evolution occurs? That there are laws to gravity? What?
You're persenting them with evidence, it's up to them to consider the evidence and see does it weigh up against their faith based knowledge. Should they renounce one then it seems one was built on shaky ground the other not so much.
Either way it seem to me you're trying to drag this to a creation v science debate, and as such I will bow out.

Zombrex

Stephentlig wrote: »

if you wanna put religion out of schools then lets get rid of evoltion yayyy lets throw out the theorys that have no evidence to sustain them yayyyyy

Evolution isn't a religion position, it is a scientific position, irrespective of where or not you think it is a worthy or valid scientific position.

By all means advocate the removal of science from school if you think such an idea has merit, you wouldn't be the first religious person to call for this.

But lets at least be clear about what you are calling for.

fatmammycat

Stephentlig wrote: »

if you wanna put religion out of schools then lets get rid of evoltion yayyy lets throw out the theorys that have no evidence to sustain them yayyyyy

lets get rid of santa claus and the easter bunny, lets stop teaching the kids how to count using fictional characters such as talking pigs yayyyy

Okay, now you're just letting yourself down. Enjoy your afternoon.

PDN

Better to lock this and save people from embarrassing themselves.