Aer Lingus Job Cuts

DOCARCH

Sad but not surprising:

Aer Lingus has announced it is to seek 676 job cuts at the airline.

The airline says 489 jobs will be cut amongst pilots, cabin crew and ground staff, while a further 187 jobs will go in back office operations by the end of 2011.

FlutterinBantam

Hmmm the usual auld warhorses will be wheeled out to rattle a few sabres today I suppose.

Am I surprised,nah, this was on the cards for yonks.

Will be interesting to see how the lads with the beards handle it.

A lot of people out there not living in the real aviation world my sources tell me and most of the talent saw this years ago and took the money and ran.

Certainly some hard conscientious people too but swamped by the career moaners and groaners I'm told.

saeglopur

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Hmmm the usual auld warhorses will be wheeled out to rattle a few sabres today I suppose.

Am I surprised,nah, this was on the cards for yonks.

Will be interesting to see how the lads with the beards handle it.

A lot of people out there not living in the real aviation world my sources tell me and most of the talent saw this years ago and took the money and ran.

Certainly some hard conscientious people too but swamped by the career moaners and groaners I'm told.

unfortunately true

Run_to_da_hills

So much for all those promises. :rolleyes:

FlutterinBantam

Real jobs they meant, not subsidised employment for wasters who go around in a permanent daze, and have no conception of the principle that in the commercial world you need to earn more than you cost.

The day of the comfort blanket is gone, these people need to realise that.

I don't like some of that to be honest, but it is reality.

diverdriver

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

So much for all those promises. :rolleyes:

Haha, I'll bet you never believed that! I've never seen so many lies told in one election, ever, blatant they were.

As Aer Lingus, sadly inevitable. As ever the unions are blustering about industrial action. But they seem unable to grasp the reality and gravity of the situation. Aer Lingus has no God given right to survive. Even with these changes it can still go under, indeed it probably will eventually and fall into the hands of one MOL.

homerjay2005

how many people in total are employed by Aer Lingus? 700 is a huge amount for a company that is not that big really.

its a badly managed airline that probably has alot of people getting paid too much money. would ryanairs attempt at taking over have/would have any impact on jobs there?

digital_d

homerjay2005 wrote: »

how many people in total are employed by Aer Lingus? 700 is a huge amount for a company that is not that big really.

its a badly managed airline that probably has alot of people getting paid too much money. would ryanairs attempt at taking over have/would have any impact on jobs there?

according to breaking news they employ 3,879 staff (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/676-jobs-to-go-in-aer-lingus-costcutting-plan-429189.html) so in reality it's about 17% I'd imagine some of the roles being cut would be outsourced

Santa Claus

Unfortunately as the flag carrier, EI was/is the civil service of the skies and so the unions have what some would say is too much control.
I'd imagine most of the staff affected will be the senior pilots and cabin crew (I mean senior as in age wise, as they came in on much better contracts than staff in say the last 10 years) who'll prob take the redundancy/early retirement option.
Similarly they'll probably try to outsource some of the apron side roles like red caps and ground ops (if the red caps aren't already gone).


It'd be just my luck if the unions went on strike when I'm off to Chicago next Thursday

Anyone know if they're still using the A330-300s on the DUB-ORD route with the on-demand IFE units ? (I know DUO & DUZ had it last year but others were to have it fiited during last winters maintenance so does anyone know how many have it now)

SLUSK

DOCARCH wrote: »

Sad but not surprising:

Aer Lingus has announced it is to seek 676 job cuts at the airline.

The airline says 489 jobs will be cut amongst pilots, cabin crew and ground staff, while a further 187 jobs will go in back office operations by the end of 2011.

The unions can strike all they want but in the end they cannot win a fight against reality.

What are the unions gonna do if Aer Lingus does not make the cuts and then goes into bankruptcy?

Mr Benevolent

Thank god they've finally seen the light and cut costs. The inefficiency in EI is the stuff of legends and nightmares.

donkey balls

post 9/11 they had some thing like 8000 staff working for them in dublin alone at the time they had about 40 acft.

that amount of staff was ridicules for the size of there ops :eek:

my old company employed 15,000 staff at there hub where they had 200 wide body jets arriving every night.

Santa Claus

donkey balls wrote: »

post 9/11 they had some thing like 8000 staff working for them in dublin alone at the time they had about 40 acft.

Did they still have TEAM Aer Lingus back then ? They probably still owned PARC then too !

I remember back in the old days when you got the free meal on your EI flight and they had a catering line on-site at the airport (think it was where the coach car park is now) all of who were EI employees. During an annual external audit, the auditors realised that they were making 1.5 times as many meals as there were seats on all the flights (including meals for flight crews) but the management saw no problem with it!

I also remember going to my best mates birthday picnic in the mid 80s when we were about 10 or so and his mum gave each of us each out own aer lingus in flight meal and there was a massive bag of sweets too (the exact same type you used to get given to suck on when taking off). Unsuprisingly his mam was a hostesss but I'm not saying her actions were representative of all EI staff at the time, but because so much was gotten away with for so long, the unions began to think it was the staffs right to have these unofficial perks.

If I was an EI staff member, I'd prefer to still have a job and take a hit like everyone else than risk joining the dole queues that I'm standing in at the moment (I was in IT for 10 years and found that unions are only interest in the membership fees, not the members).

murfie

May not be a popular opinion in here but listening to O'Leary today isnt it such a shame all these jobs have been lost when in the plan for the takeover Ryanair had commited to expand and take on 1000 staff. Surely this was a better option to laying off people. Just an opinion dont kill me!!

digital_d

murfie wrote: »

May not be a popular opinion in here but listening to O'Leary today isnt it such a shame all these jobs have been lost when in the plan for the takeover Ryanair had commited to expand and take on 1000 staff. Surely this was a better option to laying off people. Just an opinion dont kill me!!

Actually - I'd have to say I found this quite interesting too - From what I saw in the press about thier proposal it did have a few merits, esp as Aer Lingus was to be maintained as a separate brand and not turned into a Ryanair 2. It could have led to a horrible mess, or maybe helped to get around some of the silly practices that aer lingus and ryan air have in thier method of competition (such as flying the same route at similar times with empty seats on both airlines etc.) But I guess now we will never know! Not sure if competition rules would have let it through as I'm sure between them they would have more than 50% of the market.

Run_to_da_hills

O Learys prediction on Aer Lingus looks as if it could be coming a year ahead of time.

irlrobins

Be interesting to see what happens the the long haul routes. That accounts for a hugh proprortion of the losses so logically it should be cut. But that would be some impact to the business model.

FlutterinBantam

jaysus!!

Just caught the end of Pat Kenny today.

Claire Daly banging on about giving a "service to an island nation"

Sweet lamb!!!! Like we need EI to get off the island!!

Aer Lingus is in existance to make a profit Claire, not provide you and your ilk with cushy jobs and as much time as you like to talk yourselves into bankruptcy.

That kind of rubbish went out in the late 70s.

bazzachazza

Aerlingus have been in trouble now for over 8 years. How many "Survival plans" have we now had, how many more will there be.

Its getting to be a bit like the Alitalia and Olympic stories.

If it didn't mean the loss of so many jobs I would nearly be happy to see Aerlingus fold and a new airline started up in its place.

From what I have heard the boys up front are making too much money and refuse to take a cut. I heard that the senior captains on the pond are making €250,0000 + expenses and overnights in 4 star hotels and only do a couple of flights a week.

Thats only the start of it.

I don't want to see anyone lose there jobs but those that are left need to get real and realise that its better to have a job and some money coming in than no job at all.

FlutterinBantam

bazzachazza wrote: »

From what I have heard the boys up front are making too much money and refuse to take a cut. I heard that the senior captains on the pond are making €250,0000 + expenses and overnights in 4 star hotels and only do a couple of flights a week.

.

Indeed but that is not the problem, they are paid industry average and if I understand you as referring to the "pond" as the Atlantic, it would be kind of hard to do more that a couple of flights a week.Think about it.

It's the routine stuff that is costing, cleaning the airplanes and handling the baggage etc.etc.

Based on the yield from SOC, these costs are way out of line.

Ok about 15 years ago, but not now.


There's the problem.

bazzachazza

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Indeed but that is not the problem, they are paid industry average and if I understand you as referring to the "pond" as the Atlantic, it would be kind of hard to do more that a couple of flights a week.Think about it.

It's the routine stuff that is costing, cleaning the airplanes and handling the baggage etc.etc.

Based on the yield from SOC, these costs are way out of line.

Ok about 15 years ago, but not now.


There's the problem.

I'm well aware they can only do a few runs a week.

I'm saying its not great value for money. Shifting max 1000 a week for that money versus possibly 1000 pax per day short haul for less wages no expenses and no 4 star hotels.

FlutterinBantam

bazzachazza wrote: »

I'm well aware they can only do a few runs a week.

I'm saying its not great value for money. Shifting max 1000 a week for that money versus possibly 1000 pax per day short haul for less wages no expenses and no 4 star hotels.

Ok, so what you are saying is ditch the longhaul and concentrate on the short haul?

What EI pilots get does not vary greatly from others in the industry.

Foggy43

Word around LHR is that Aer Lingus pilots are the highest paid. But a senior longhaul Capatain on €250,000pa? :eek: :eek:
The same BA Captain gets £120.000 which includes bonuses.

Terrontress

2 years ago, €250k would have been £150k. In that context it's difficult to compare the two like for like based solely on the gross pay.

drdeadlift

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Indeed but that is not the problem, they are paid industry average and if I understand you as referring to the "pond" as the Atlantic, it would be kind of hard to do more that a couple of flights a week.Think about it.

It's the routine stuff that is costing, cleaning the airplanes and handling the baggage etc.etc.

Based on the yield from SOC, these costs are way out of line.

Ok about 15 years ago, but not now.


There's the problem.

Have the pilots fly 2 ta flights a month and do shorthaul for the rest.
Alot of the cabin crew are ta waited,this means the majority of the flights they get to work are Trans Atlantic.

Take a trip up to dublin airport,look at the crew leaving the airport,you will see ei cabin crew driving BMWs or mini coopers,then you will see ryanair cabin crew walkin to Swords or getting the bus.I worked up there for a few years.

Ei will be half the company it is right now in 18months time.

FlutterinBantam

drdeadlift wrote: »

Have the pilots fly 2 ta flights a month and do shorthaul for the rest.
Alot of the cabin crew are ta waited,this means the majority of the flights they get to work are Trans Atlantic.

Take a trip up to dublin airport,look at the crew leaving the airport,you will see ei cabin crew driving BMWs or mini coopers,then you will see ryanair cabin crew walkin to Swords or getting the bus.I worked up there for a few years.

Ei will be half the company it is right now in 18months time.

I don't doubt you, I don't doubt you at all.

Preset No.3

drdeadlift wrote: »

Take a trip up to dublin airport,look at the crew leaving the airport,you will see ei cabin crew driving BMWs or mini coopers,then you will see ryanair cabin crew walkin to Swords or getting the bus.I worked up there for a few years.
QUOTE]


Neighbour of mine is EI crew, works the TA routes and short haul. She drives a 9 year old Nissan Almera!

Now, what does all this mean???? Fxxk ALL!!! Just because someone drives a flash car doent mean they are loaded! Finance in Ireland was cheap as chips a couple of years back!

What a stupid thing to say!

Terrontress

A nine year old Almera you say. I wonder what she is doing with the rest of the money.

Do her clothes look expensive?

Dacian

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Just because someone drives a flash car doent mean they are loaded! Finance in Ireland was cheap as chips a couple of years back!

Flash cars could cost E50-100 a week or less with the finance people got in the last few years. A mate of mine works for EI and gets the bus. With 2 kids a second car would be too expensive,his wife has a Corolla.

No one is claiming that EI crew don't earn more that FR crew. But FR crew are paid feck all while EI get a good wage.......a career in EI will allow you to work up and afford a car while the FR crew who only last a year or two, live in Swords and get the bus.

Lets also look at the top dogs. FR managers are paid badly compared to EI. The ex FR guy who is now with EI (Sean Coyle) has got a huge increase compared to what he was on.

In fact since 2005 costs in EI have risen while frontline staff salaries have dropped. Figure that out!

FlutterinBantam

Dacian wrote: »

Flash cars could cost E50-100 a week or less with the finance people got in the last few years. A mate of mine works for EI and gets the bus. With 2 kids a second car would be too expensive,his wife has a Corolla.

No one is claiming that EI crew don't earn more that FR crew. But FR crew are paid feck all while EI get a good wage.......a career in EI will allow you to work up and afford a car while the FR crew who only last a year or two, live in Swords and get the bus.

Lets also look at the top dogs. FR managers are paid badly compared to EI. The ex FR guy who is now with EI (Sean Coyle) has got a huge increase compared to what he was on.

In fact since 2005 costs in EI have risen while frontline staff salaries have dropped. Figure that out!

No problem, almost everything done on overtime.:rolleyes:

Change your work practices people.

FunkyDa

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No problem, almost everything done on overtime.:rolleyes:

Change your work practices people.

I don't understand that? - if almost everything is being done on overtime, what's being done during the first 8/12 hours of the shift - nothing?

Delancey

What seems to get very little attention in the media is the fact that when Aer Lingus was ' privatised ' it had a strong cash reserve of some 650 million euro . This cash pile which was to be used for future investment is being burnt up at a scary rate and given the scale of losses may be gone in 18-24 months - what happens then ? I think Aer Lingus's chances of survival as an independent entity are precisley nil.

FlutterinBantam

FunkyDa wrote: »

I don't understand that? - if almost everything is being done on overtime, what's being done during the first 8/12 hours of the shift - nothing?

Sorry, just re read my post there, should have been "too much work being done on overtime rates"

Sorry 'bout that.

saeglopur

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Sorry, just re read my post there, should have been "too much work being done on overtime rates"

Sorry 'bout that.

Where exactly? certainly true of the past but working practices have changed a lot in recent times especially in the last year. Only ot going on the ground these days is due to understaffing in certain sections and covering illness in others which is minimal.

In the air its not ot that is driving up costs either due to flying hours etc. This is why EI are looking for job cuts and changes in certain conditions more so than changes that will reduce the ot bill.

FlutterinBantam

My sources tell me that there is almost unlimited overtime available in the ground operations area and in the cabin crew area.

One friend of a friend is cabin crew and he turns off his phone on days off to block requests to come in on overtime!

That's the way I heard it is .

Dacian

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No problem, almost everything done on overtime.:rolleyes:

But EI no longer pay the levels of overtime they used to. I was told that some sections used to get double time, or could come in early for triple time.....which is madness. A few years ago all O/T was pegged at time and a half. 'Voluntary' overtime is crazy,it such be used when needed.


My mate is also crew and he says the same thing about being asked to ask on days off. He says it sometimes happens when there are bad weather or delay problesm but usually its on a normal day. But this is a staffing issue, with proper staff levels there should be no need to ask ppl to work on day off.

FlutterinBantam

Dacian wrote: »

But EI no longer pay the levels of overtime they used to. I was told that some sections used to get double time, or could come in early for triple time.....which is madness. A few years ago all O/T was pegged at time and a half. 'Voluntary' overtime is crazy,it such be used when needed.


My mate is also crew and he says the same thing about being asked to ask on days off. He says it sometimes happens when there are bad weather or delay problesm but usually its on a normal day. But this is a staffing issue, with proper staff levels there should be no need to ask ppl to work on day off.

Indeed, that's if they all come in;)

drdeadlift

Preset No.3 wrote: »

drdeadlift wrote: »

Take a trip up to dublin airport,look at the crew leaving the airport,you will see ei cabin crew driving BMWs or mini coopers,then you will see ryanair cabin crew walkin to Swords or getting the bus.I worked up there for a few years.
QUOTE]


Neighbour of mine is EI crew, works the TA routes and short haul. She drives a 9 year old Nissan Almera!

Now, what does all this mean???? Fxxk ALL!!! Just because someone drives a flash car doent mean they are loaded! Finance in Ireland was cheap as chips a couple of years back!

What a stupid thing to say!

Fair play to your neighbour.

Go to the airport your self..have a look.Its so dam obvious Aerlingus is being bled dry by its own staff and mgmt.It takes for a massive economical downturn for this to be noticed.

I have family members who work for Ei i know first hand how cushy they have it.

I wouldnt be suprised if mol is waiting for the government to approach him with a takeover deal.

drdeadlift

Foggy43 wrote: »

Word around LHR is that Aer Lingus pilots are the highest paid. But a senior longhaul Capatain on €250,000pa? :eek: :eek:
The same BA Captain gets £120.000 which includes bonuses.

Back in 2004/5 a captain for cargolux i knew was making 250k usd,but that may have changed by now.

I wonder would it benefit Ei if the had smaller long haul a/c,maybe 753 or 762? It looks like the A330 seems to be a hard one to fill right now.

Would slightly smaller a/c accross the fleet benefit them in time?

100-130 seat for shourt haul,200-240 seats long haul perhaps.