How are things in the Big 4??

Pascal Yeah

I have just returned from study leave into work and have found a marked difference in moral of staff. People seem to be very down and upset of the prospects of another busy season considering no more payment for overtime and lack of pay rise for the foreseeable future. I personally see that the next 18 months are going to be the worst I ever face. While I do appreciate that I have a job and will stick with it, I was just wondering how other people are feeling??

Pisco Sour

Pascal Yeah wrote: »

I have just returned from study leave into work and have found a marked difference in moral of staff. People seem to be very down and upset of the prospects of another busy season considering no more payment for overtime and lack of pay rise for the foreseeable future. I personally see that the next 18 months are going to be the worst I ever face. While I do appreciate that I have a job and will stick with it, I was just wondering how other people are feeling??

Same. Moral and job satisfaction are at an all time low. Lots of lunchtime rants.

kabuk1

It sucks. But I had to resit some exams, which I'm sure I failed, so there most likely won't be another busy season for me. I hate that I'll be out of a job, but I won't miss this job one bit.

Time to move on for me. Even if I did pass, I'll push through the year, but I won't sit my next set of exams. I'm leaving to go get qualified to teach in the UK. It'll be far better than this.

Hackysack

Most people i've spoken to in my company seem to be getting on grand. I haven't been in the office for a month so I don't really know how things are now.

My firm has been very supportive to us in general so apart from exam woes, I haven't heard people complaining about the job (as opposed to the usual complaints, which happen regardless!).

Bren1609

Welcome to the real world. College doesnt last forever!

kabuk1

It's not about the difference between real world and college. It's about finding something you love to do. It you play your cards right, you won't have to work after college, not if you love what you do.

For me, this isn't it. I want a life and something more fulfilling than this. The entire field is overworked and underpaid, especially as a trainee. I'm sorry, I'd rather have a life and love for my work than a 6 figure salary somewhere down the road. I want to enjoy the money I earn, not be a salve to it. this work is draining the life out of me. I've become more anti-social than social. Go figure.

For those of you who love this work, and I know they exist, more power to ya. For me, I need to be working in the community and with kids and the disadvantaged, not the greedy rich folks (though not all the rich are greedy, but the comment is in regards to my house-mate who works for a wealthy businessman in Dublin who is one of those rich bastards who will step on anyone he pleases, including steel their work and break a contract - knowing he can pay to have lawyers tie up the court case).

For those who love business and accounting, stick with it; it'll be worth it in the end. For those of you who really hate and have lost all will to 'live', leave the bloody job and start doing some soul and career searching. You'll be much happier in the end.

buzzing

I work in a small place, the recession is beginning to hit hard.
It prob through to say staff morale is low, coz clients are having difficulty playing fees.
Every1 has uped there game,moving up a level - with no benefits
the HRM place emphasises lucky to have a job and its true however when one qualifies there doesnt appear to be ny opportunities.
My boss always says this is the worst recession, however he recalls the 1980 that us celtic cubs never experience - looks like a challenge.
Heard in the news about marks n sparks job que's frightening.

I was of the opinion that accounting was a well respected qualification and hopefully it is....have yet to seriously experience the benefits.

schumacher

Things dont sound too good. I suppose its to be expected in the recession. Im about to start in a Big 4 and someone mentioned no pay rises. Could I possibly be on the same wage that i am now for the duration of my contract? That would be depressing.

kabuk1

Not sure which company you're working for, but the Big4 I'm at, the pay freezes have an end date here and trainees should see a pay raise after sitting exams in Summer 2010. I'm not sure what the raises will look like, but they should be there.

However, I believe the companies are in the wrong for disregarding the ICAI recommendation of a small pay raise after passing each set of exams. They could've afforded that. There is no real incentive to perform well at work as no one is being rewarded. The bonuses given out for placement are minimal.

As I watch the way my firm spends money, I'm sure they could've made cutbacks elsewhere so they could've provided a small raise to those who make it to the next stage in their exams.

censuspro

I can take years to make money as an accountant. I think that theres a common misconception that once you qualify you're on to a big salary.

kabuk1

It'll take your life to make the big salary. All you do is work.

Hackysack

kabuk1 wrote: »

It'll take your life to make the big salary. All you do is work.

I'm not being funny but, this shouldn't be a new revelation.

kabuk1

I know some people who come in and expect big money without sacrificing their life. It's crazy. To me, no job is worth that sacrifice. You only live once.

Hackysack

I agree. It's one of the biggest things that turns me off Auditing. I don't mind working in it. But when I look at the managers and seniors and at the amount of work they have to put in it really turns me off. I'm sure they're well compensated for their time.

But with the way things are now, I think that the idea of getting a big salary for the basic 9-5 just isn't the way it's going to be, for any career.

shelly2

Hi,

I work for one of the big four also. I completely get why people are demotivated, I dont think enough focus is put on motivating the staff. However, despite getting a pay cut in July, it has been announced that we are getting a payrise this year which helps the spirit a little bit!

Have other big fours announced pay rises?

prinz

kabuk1 wrote: »

However, I believe the companies are in the wrong for disregarding the ICAI recommendation of a small pay raise after passing each set of exams. They could've afforded that. There is no real incentive to perform well at work as no one is being rewarded..

+1, not in a big 4, but have had the same experience. Was expecting something for passing CAP1 but it never appeared. Major blow to motivation and interest when I was straight back into CAP2. Getting paid less now

Pisco Sour

shelly2 wrote: »

Hi,

I work for one of the big four also. I completely get why people are demotivated, I dont think enough focus is put on motivating the staff. However, despite getting a pay cut in July, it has been announced that we are getting a payrise this year which helps the spirit a little bit!

Have other big fours announced pay rises?

Pay Freeze

4444

One big4 is giving 40k for students who just sat FAE's (without results yet).
I'm on same level and am getting Late 20ks. Its appalling.

crapmanjoe

4444 wrote: »

One big4 is giving 40k for students who just sat FAE's (without results yet).
I'm on same level and am getting Late 20ks. Its appalling.

Im big 4, just sat FAE and am on very low 30's

Absolute uproar over the pay increase we got, espically since we lost over time

standardtoaster

crapmanjoe wrote: »

Im big 4, just sat FAE and am on very low 30's

Absolute uproar over the pay increase we got, espically since we lost over time

+1 very disappointing especially considering what we would have been earning this time last year as newly qualifieds

qwerty23

Im starting in one of the Big4 in a few weeks and this stuff is just depressing to read!

There has to be an upside somewhere???

Pisco Sour

qwerty23 wrote: »

Im starting in one of the Big4 in a few weeks and this stuff is just depressing to read!

There has to be an upside somewhere???

Yep, the day your contract ends

JD1763

Too true - just waiting for someone in their final year to post a pic of their countdown clock to make the new first years feel even worse.

Carlitos

04072511 wrote: »

Yep, the day your contract ends

Im starting in a few weeks as well, im not in tax or audit but i have to do exams anyway. i presume it's going to be just as depressing?

Pisco Sour

Carlitos wrote: »

Im starting in a few weeks as well, im not in tax or audit but i have to do exams anyway. i presume it's going to be just as depressing?

Well not doing Audit is a MASSIVE plus! From what I gather advisory (if thats what you are doing) isnt anywhere near as bad so your contract might not be quite as horrific as ours. Audit really is the most soul degrading of activities.

Carlitos

04072511 wrote: »

Well not doing Audit is a MASSIVE plus! From what I gather advisory (if thats what you are doing) isnt anywhere near as bad so your contract might not be quite as horrific as ours. Audit really is the most soul degrading of activities.

Yeah when i read the replies here i have to remember im not auditing, it really sounds terrible.

but i am still enrolled in the exams. i'll only know when i get in there im just having a minor panic attack as it gets closer.

Exams with a job and lectures on weekends just sounds daunting. :rolleyes:

Prezatch

Carlitos wrote: »

Exams with a job and lectures on weekends just sounds daunting. :rolleyes:

Exams with a job aren't too bad if you put the work in with during study leave and a little bit throughout the year. Lectures were a waste of time, should have just studied during lecture time and taught myself instead. I'v come to realise this having failed two CAP2 and am currently doing repeats.

As for audit, I don't find it too bad. But I absolutely despise overtime and how it is expected of you during busy season in an audit career. I never want to become an audit manager, just seems depressing, regardless of the money. I seem them in my place staying late the whole time. Life passes by too quickly to be doing this $hit.

babbar sher

It is quite dissappointing to hear all of yous big 4 folks. Things must be very bad in the big 4 for you all to sound like that. It is my dream since I was 16 to join a big 4 firm. Im 21 now & will be applying for their jobs that start next year. This post really put me off.

I thought a job with a big 4 firm was like the best thing for us wannabe accountants?

I was let go twice in the last year by 2 medium sized practices in dublin. Was out of work for 8 out of the last 12 months. Found it very very hard to survive. Lucky to be alive & well due to gf & father. Recently just found some of my own clients. Doing accountancy & bookkeeping & tax comps etc. Not a great wage but feel fantastic when working for them & getting paid. Get a lot of respect & thanks for doing the job. Im done with most of my exams, just one last one left for ACCA.

I wonder if Id be better off not going for the big 4 & try to find a less demanding practice & be able to keep my own clients on the side. On the other hand a big 4 name on the CV says an awful lot no matter where I go in the future.

Any advise or different point of view on the situation out there? greatly appreciated!

best of luck to all anyway!

Carlitos

JoeyD wrote: »

Exams with a job aren't too bad if you put the work in with during study leave and a little bit throughout the year. Lectures were a waste of time, should have just studied during lecture time and taught myself instead. I'v come to realise this having failed two CAP2 and am currently doing repeats.

As for audit, I don't find it too bad. But I absolutely despise overtime and how it is expected of you during busy season in an audit career. I never want to become an audit manager, just seems depressing, regardless of the money. I seem them in my place staying late the whole time. Life passes by too quickly to be doing this $hit.

i get the feeling lectures might be like that but we have to go to at least 70% or we can't take exams. they brought this back in this year apparently?

Mate dont worry about it the tone on this thread might seem but some people are born auditors and some are not. i know i am deffo not that kind of guy so i avoided it. i hope it works out

prinz

JoeyD wrote: »

But I absolutely despise overtime and how it is expected of you during busy season in an audit career..

At least in the big4 you get rewarded for that right? Paid overtime or time n lieu etc? There was someone on one of the threads here that had 11 weeks study leave for the CAP2 in the summer :eek: Spare a thought for those of us in smaller firms of whom overtime is expected with nothing in return, no such thing as getting paid anything extra or time in lieu.

Pisco Sour

babbar sher wrote: »

It is my dream since I was 16 to join a big 4 firm.

Wow, I didnt even know what Big 4 was at the age of 21, not to mention 16!!! If thats how you feel then go for it. Granted most people hate auditing but perhaps you might be part of the small percentage of people who actually finds the stuff interesting.

Pisco Sour

babbar sher wrote: »

Get a lot of respect & thanks for doing the job.

Dont expect much of this in the Big 4 though

schumacher

Carlitos wrote: »

i get the feeling lectures might be like that but we have to go to at least 70% or we can't take exams. they brought this back in this year apparently?

Yeah it says that if you dont go to 70% of the lectures and pass the mocks you cant sit the exams. Its just crazy especially when I have lectures during the week sometimes for a whole day when Im meant to be at work. I thought I could skip these at least.

Pisco Sour

schumacher wrote: »

Yeah it says that if you dont go to 70% of the lectures and pass the mocks you cant sit the exams. Its just crazy especially when I have lectures during the week sometimes for a whole day when Im meant to be at work. I thought I could skip these at least.

Dont mind that rubbish. They said the same to us, they dont enforce it. Sure something like only 1-2% of people passed their CAP 1 mocks the year I did it. Whats the point in having to pass them when you have to go pass the real ones all over again!!??!! It basically like giving you 2 sets of CAP 1's. Pass one in order to do another? Utter rubbish.

seven-iron

hey, i was looking at my 'group 1, dublin cap 2 timetable' there. how come group 2 start 3 weeks after us does anyone know!

tywy

seven-iron wrote: »

hey, i was looking at my 'group 1, dublin cap 2 timetable' there. how come group 2 start 3 weeks after us does anyone know!

There has to be a schedule?

There are too many people so they have to split people into 2 groups. The lecturers dictate the timetable a bit too I assume.

Relevant

It just makes it much harder to go to the other groups lecture if you cannot make your own.

Fiona44

Looks like they might actually enforce the having to attend 70% of lectures rule this year. Especially since they're making us get a minimum of 40% in our mocks before we can even sit the exams.

- completely crazy - how are we supposed to study when were working 12 hour days during busy season - this is just another way of getting rid of alot of us :mad:

kabuk1

Fiona44 wrote: »

Looks like they might actually enforce the having to attend 70% of lectures rule this year. Especially since they're making us get a minimum of 40% in our mocks before we can even sit the exams.

- completely crazy - how are we supposed to study when were working 12 hour days during busy season - this is just another way of getting rid of alot of us :mad:

+1 It's ridiculous. I've heard not to worry about it. I've been told that it'll be treated the same as the requirements for last year. This is coming from the person at my firm who deals directly with the CAI; however, not completely sure. If they did enforce this, I'd say 75%-90% of the students wouldn't be allowed to sit the CAP2 exams.

crapmanjoe

Fiona44 wrote: »

Looks like they might actually enforce the having to attend 70% of lectures rule this year. Especially since they're making us get a minimum of 40% in our mocks before we can even sit the exams.

- completely crazy - how are we supposed to study when were working 12 hour days during busy season - this is just another way of getting rid of alot of us :mad:

Wont be enforeced, I went to about 7% of lectures and didnt even get 40% in total between my mocks never mind 40% in each exam

I wouldnt worry about that

Carlitos

crapmanjoe wrote: »

Wont be enforeced, I went to about 7% of lectures and didnt even get 40% in total between my mocks never mind 40% in each exam

I wouldnt worry about that

well i havnt got my info on the lectures yet so it might depend on my work load and where they put me for lectures. also if i can't play matches on the sunday then things might get awkward.

Fiona44

This seems to be a new thing they have brought in this year - they've brought in a 'Certificate of Due Participation' that you need to have before you can sit the exams.
A letter was sent out saying you must achieve a minimum of 40% in assignments and mock exams.

I know last year they were just told they had to sit the mocks - didn't matter what result they got.

Why are they still calling them mocks - should be renamed 'CAP2s part 1' :rolleyes:

Pisco Sour

Fiona44 wrote: »

This seems to be a new thing they have brought in this year - they've brought in a 'Certificate of Due Participation' that you need to have before you can sit the exams.
A letter was sent out saying you must achieve a minimum of 40% in assignments and mock exams.

I know last year they were just told they had to sit the mocks - didn't matter what result they got.

Why are they still calling them mocks - should be renamed 'CAP2s part 1' :rolleyes:

We were told for CAP 1 in 2007/2008 that we had to attend 75% of lectures, and get 45% in our mocks. Its scaremongering, it wont be enforced as if they do then there will be about 40 people in the country sitting the exam!

Fiona44

We were told for CAP 1 in 2007/2008 that we had to attend 75% of lectures, and get 45% in our mocks. Its scaremongering, it wont be enforced as if they do then there will be about 40 people in the country sitting the exam!

Oh ok - I hope you're right! There's no way I have any hope of getting anywhere close to 40% in my mocks....got 5% last year!

prinz

crapmanjoe wrote: »

Wont be enforeced, I went to about 7% of lectures and didnt even get 40% in total between my mocks never mind 40% in each exam

Amen to that :pac:. Although it's coming back to bite me in the ass now.:(

shelly2

Fiona44 wrote: »

A letter was sent out saying you must achieve a minimum of 40% in assignments and mock exams.

I know last year they were just told they had to sit the mocks - didn't matter what result they got.

Why are they still calling them mocks - should be renamed 'CAP2s part 1' :rolleyes:

The mocks are seriously easy to get high marks in. For Cap1 I passed a subject by answering 1 question.. Not logically possible.

Also did the whole audit paper this year and got 72 percent in the mock. Did so much work for the final paper and got in the 50s..

They seriously dont mark the mocks well at all. Wouldnt be too hard to get 40 if they keep that attitude up!

Pisco Sour

shelly2 wrote: »

The mocks are seriously easy to get high marks in. For Cap1 I passed a subject by answering 1 question.. Not logically possible.

Also did the whole audit paper this year and got 72 percent in the mock. Did so much work for the final paper and got in the 50s..

They seriously dont mark the mocks well at all. Wouldnt be too hard to get 40 if they keep that attitude up!

For CAP 1 Law i recall writing 1 and a quarter pages and still managed 25%. The mocks are utterly pointless, and marking them easily does nobody any favours, it only gives people a false sense of security.

Pisco Sour

Is this 70% + 40% nonsense lecture & Mocks requirements only for CAP 1 and CAP 2 or does it include FAE's aswell??

Carlitos

04072511 wrote: »

Is this 70% + 40% nonsense lecture & Mocks requirements only for CAP 1 and CAP 2 or does it include FAE's aswell??

i am not sure. i just got my schedule for the lectures. my god i can see why people might not have attended! :eek: i barely have time to sleep :rolleyes:

apparently they were concerned with the high failure rate and so are trying to ensure people attend this year.

Hackysack

Carlitos wrote: »

apparently they were concerned with the high failure rate and so are trying to ensure people attend this year.

Well if they set more exams at Prof3 standard they wouldn't have that problem.