Tyler Thigpen for Dolphins

jackswitzer

Looks like Chad Pennington is out for the season so Dolphins have given an undisclosed draft pick from the 2010 draft for Kansas City 3rd string Tyler Thigpen and installed him as starter.
I was shocked at this at first but since he has played something similar to the wildcat to some success last season, he might be a good choice.
Opinions?

frostie500

Have they named him as a starter? I assumed Chad Heine would be the starter, they used a second rounder on him and now is as a good a time as ever to see what he can do with a run with the starters

ReacherCreature

jackswitzer wrote: »

Looks like Chad Pennington is out for the season so Dolphins have given an undisclosed draft pick from the 2010 draft for Kansas City 3rd string Tyler Thigpen and installed him as starter.
I was shocked at this at first but since he has played something similar to the wildcat to some success last season, he might be a good choice.
Opinions?

First I've heard about it. :O

I would've thought they'd start Chad Henne if Pennington went down.

Poor Chad, if he needs an operation it'll be his third on that arm since 2005.

tallaghtoutlaws

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d812feff9&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Thigpen is there to back up Heinne.

Sea Devils

I like the move. Thigpen was one of the few bright spots with the Chiefs last season. Should be interesting to see what the pick is

Just glad they didn't go after Joey Harrington again.

jackswitzer

Really sorry guys. The information stating he was starting was from an additional blog at the end of an article, not part of the news article as I'd initially thought. Apparently no decision has been made but the notion is that Henne will start the next couple of games at least.

ReacherCreature

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d812feff9&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Thigpen is there to back up Heinne.

I like this.

Henne'll get his shot and if he bombs, Thigpen is another safety valve.

I reckon the Dolphin's passing offense will open up more if Henne settles.

LuckyLloyd

Good move imo. Pennington is probably finished (though he's proven people wrong in the past) given the nature of the injury, and his loss probably dooms the Dolphins for this season when you consider how efficient he has been in that offense. Thigpen looked good last year in Kansas, and Henne has good college pedigree. Seems like clever business to have two guys with a ton of potential on the roster right now, see how they get on and reconsider when the season is over.

jackswitzer

I think it's a really good move. Henne can't play the wildcat but can throw deep so maybe we can see what he can do out wide, considering Ginn Jnr. is thought to be a deep receiver and has failed to impress under the wildcat.
While this is being explored Thigpen is obviously being groomed to manage the wildcat.
I reckon what might happen is that they alternate the two. This could be done quite successfully and even add yet another dimension to Miami's options. Henne really doesn't need the pressure of being sole starter and Thigpen looks competent.

Chucky the tree

In the long run it's probably a good thing. While no franchise like losing top end draft pick for the dolphins with the array of QB's that will come out next year will be a huge bonus for them.

ReacherCreature

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Good move imo. Pennington is probably finished (though he's proven people wrong in the past) given the nature of the injury

As much as I like the guy for coming back in the previous years from such an injury and especially winning the comeback player of the year award, I can't help but feel he might retire now?

tallaghtoutlaws

jackswitzer wrote: »

I think it's a really good move. Henne can't play the wildcat but can throw deep so maybe we can see what he can do out wide, considering Ginn Jnr. is thought to be a deep receiver and has failed to impress under the wildcat.
While this is being explored Thigpen is obviously being groomed to manage the wildcat.
I reckon what might happen is that they alternate the two. This could be done quite successfully and even add yet another dimension to Miami's options. Henne really doesn't need the pressure of being sole starter and Thigpen looks competent.

When you say Henne cant play the wildcat what are you referring to out of a matter of interest? The wildcat offense has a lot of direct snaps to RB and depending what wildcat formation you run some of the time you have the QB lined up in Slot.

Its funny you say what you said as I asked the same question to friends who are coaches in US asking them does it matter what type of QB you have for the Wildcat i.e Pocket Passer or Scrmabler and they all said no. It all depends on how smart your QB is. But you do need smart backs with ability.

ReacherCreature

jackswitzer wrote: »

I think it's a really good move. Henne can't play the wildcat but can throw deep so maybe we can see what he can do out wide

Pennington didn't run or catch in the wildcat, essentially he just passed it off of reverses and the like. I don't think it takes much to be a 'pure passer' in a wildcat lineup. Henne can do the same things as Chad done.

considering Ginn Jnr. is thought to be a deep receiver and has failed to impress under the wildcat.

Is there much need for him? Maybe I'm wrong but when I think of the fins 'Wildcat'; I think Brown and Williams.

I reckon what might happen is that they alternate the two. This could be done quite successfully and even add yet another dimension to Miami's options. Henne really doesn't need the pressure of being sole starter and Thigpen looks competent

I get your point but if I was coach, I'd use one and if he produces, he produces. If not, throw in the other.

LuckyLloyd

ReacherCreature wrote: »

As much as I like the guy for coming back in the previous years from such an injury and especially winning the comeback player of the year award, I can't help but feel he might retire now?

Well, everyone assumed he wouldn't return from the second surgery (I mean most QB's in the past haven't got back to their best after one bout of shoulder surgery). Pennington is ridiculously tough from a mental perspective, so I wouldn't bet against him playing another game in the NFL. If anyone would relish the anguish of forcing his body back one more time, it's Chad.

ReacherCreature

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, everyone assumed he wouldn't return from the second surgery (I mean most QB's in the past haven't got back to their best after one bout of shoulder surgery). Pennington is ridiculously tough from a mental perspective, so I wouldn't bet against him playing another game in the NFL. If anyone would relish the anguish of forcing his body back one more time, it's Chad.

Christ he must have a warrior mentality by now. If the arm can stand up (provided he needs surgery) to the task, it's all mental. Although it would be interesting to see what would happen if Henne or Thigpen do really well and what would happen to Chad, time will tell I guess.

Karlusss

This is a good move by the Dolphins to get someone with experience starting in the NFL (and starting under pressure in the NFL) on the roster. They'll go with Henne surely, but people say give your second rounder a chance - what if he fails? Then you're onto Pat White, who's figured to just be a weapon this season.

It's a pity they lost Pennington, and if he doesn't return, he proved himself last season. He'll leave with no regrets except the missing championship that 98% of the league leaves with.

But Thigpen had most of his success out of the spread last year. He can run, pass and catch. That gives Miami options. Henne as a pocket passer, Thigpen as a college-style QB and Pat White in the wildcat? On paper, that looks good. In practice, it's just not the same as having a Franchise QB...

jackswitzer

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

When you say Henne cant play the wildcat what are you referring to out of a matter of interest?

I mean that Henne can't play wildcat...yet. When Pennington was injured on Sunday Miami completely changed to a more orthodox offensive approach, I don't thin there was one direct snap while Henne played. This suggests he's unfamiliar, uncomfortable or most likely, didn't need the extra pressure of being an untested QB thrown into a wildcat formation.
I take your point about the type of QB playing the wildcat may not matter, but experience playing it surely will and without the wildcat Miami look very ordinary. Thigpen is clearly being brought in for a specific reason. And that seems to be for the wildcat. While Henne plays I believe they will focus more on his strengths as a passer.

Also, Reacher Creature, what I meant by the Ginn Jnr. reference was that IF the wildcat is downplayed in the coming weeks while Henne adjusts, the focus could be on Henne's ability to pass deep and Ginn (in his college days) liked to run deep. If he's still got that ability it's not coming to the surface in the wildcat.

raddo

Gutted for Chad, especially as this was probably his last year as the starting QB. They already said that Henne will be No. 1 next year.
Thigpen seems like a good move but I really feel that for the Dolphins offense to move forward they need to get a consistent WR, TE or both. Granted the wildcat is great but at the moment it seems like the only option.

rich1874

yeah Chad Henne will be starting this week agaiinst Buffalo, they have to give him a chance. I like the Thigpen move. He's a very exciting QB. His throwing at times leaves a lot to be desired though i think. He'll definitely see some action soon, especially if Henne doesn't get it done this week.

eagle eye

Its only a stop-gap measure. Even when they took Chad Pennington last year he got a two year contract and was told that he was only there short term. Its been clear since the Tuna joined up that they are going after Tebow. Thats why they went to the wildcat. Tebow is the biggest thing in Florida since the slice pan and is guaranteed to fill the stadium for a couple of years and imo bring success too as much as that thought does not sit well with me.

frostie500

eagle eye wrote: »

Its been clear since the Tuna joined up that they are going after Tebow. That's why they went to the wildcat.

They didn't install the wildcat for two seasons so that Tim Tebow can feel good when he arrives its because its the best way to get their two most dangerous players(Brown and Williams) on the field at the same time.

Also its not the 'phins that are looking at Tebow as some sort of savior-its the Jags. They are on blackout watch for every game and their owner has come out and said that drafting Tebow would be the best way to save the franchise from having to leave Jacksonville

eagle eye

frostie500 wrote: »

They didn't install the wildcat for two seasons so that Tim Tebow can feel good when he arrives its because its the best way to get their two most dangerous players(Brown and Williams) on the field at the same time.

Also its not the 'phins that are looking at Tebow as some sort of savior-its the Jags. They are on blackout watch for every game and their owner has come out and said that drafting Tebow would be the best way to save the franchise from having to leave Jacksonville

Firstly Tebow was expected to come out last year but decided to stay his final year.
I know the Jags have been going on about him recently, but Miami want him also.

frostie500

eagle eye wrote: »

Firstly Tebow was expected to come out last year but decided to stay his final year.
I know the Jags have been going on about him recently, but Miami want him also.

I still dont understand why you think that the Dolphins would have installed a system into their playbook for a player that may or may not end up at them. It doesn't seem to be Parcells style to implement something to help the transition of a player that isn't on his team.

jackswitzer

Judging by the start the three Florida teams have had it looks like a race to be first draft pick for Tebow!
Jasksonville want him bad though. The future of the whole franchise is staked on getting him. They can't sell football in that part of America without a star attraction like Tebow.
I don't think Miami have changed to wildcat to attract him though. They need to play Williams and Brown together. That's it.

jdivision

I'd agree, they brought it out to gain some offence after they were getting creamed. It worked, they stuck with it.

LuckyLloyd

frostie500 wrote: »

I still dont understand why you think that the Dolphins would have installed a system into their playbook for a player that may or may not end up at them. It doesn't seem to be Parcells style to implement something to help the transition of a player that isn't on his team.

It also wouldn't be like Parcells to draft a probable bust like Tebow in the first round.

tallaghtoutlaws

The problem to all this is that Tebow wont go first round and anyone who wastes their first round pick on him are mad. As a college QB he is excellent as he fits the mould as a Balanced QB. One who can move and throw. But his throwing abilities are made look fantastic due to the weapons he has to throw to. He is a good passer of the ball but not a NFL quality passer of the ball. So alot of NFL teams will stay away unless they plan to implement him in a Wildcat style playbook but then again is that worth a 1st round pick?

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It also wouldn't be like Parcells to draft a probable bust like Tebow in the first round.

A probable bust?

At the very worst he will be a top tight end in the NFL. Throwing is only one small facet of his game, he can rush, he can block, he can catch the ball. The guy is the best hybrid football player ever.
On top of all of that, he is a financial certainty. Whatever team does get him will break records in rookie football gear sales. The stadium is guarateed to be sold out for his first season and possibly long beyond that, and tv time/media exposure of the franchise will increase enormously.

There is very little risk in taking him financially. He will bring successful wildcat football to the NFL.

tallaghtoutlaws

jackswitzer wrote: »

Judging by the start the three Florida teams have had it looks like a race to be first draft pick for Tebow!
Jasksonville want him bad though. The future of the whole franchise is staked on getting him. They can't sell football in that part of America without a star attraction like Tebow.
I don't think Miami have changed to wildcat to attract him though. They need to play Williams and Brown together. That's it.

The problem with NFL teams in Florida is due to College football being more popular. The Fins manage to do ok due to the history of the team with the like of Marino and others fueling the support over the years but even then their support waynes from year to year.

With Tampa and Jacksonville they are teams who will never completely fill stadiums unless they make it to a bowl. Even if they were to sign Tebow it still wouldnt fill the stands for them. Look at it this way Gainesville is and hour and 30 mins from both Tampa and Jacksonville. Ben Hill Griffin Stadium is packed with 90k fans every weekend of a home game and both Jags and Buccs fail to scrape half that. Now before someone says that students make up that 90k and students are from all over. Florida has one of the highest in state students going to the college in Florida and the local communities surrounding it support their athletic program. Simply put those folk care more for College ball than Pro Football.

frostie500

eagle eye wrote: »

A probable bust?

At the very worst he will be a top tight end in the NFL. Throwing is only one small facet of his game, he can rush, he can block, he can catch the ball. The guy is the best hybrid football player ever.
On top of all of that, he is a financial certainty. Whatever team does get him will break records in rookie football gear sales. The stadium is guarateed to be sold out for his first season and possibly long beyond that, and tv time/media exposure of the franchise will increase enormously.

There is very little risk in taking him financially. He will bring successful wildcat football to the NFL.

I'm a big fan of Tebow, and honestly think that he will be play QB in the NFL at some point in time if he's given time at a team and drafted at a reasonable level so as to be afforded that time.

However I dont understand how you can say that he will be a top tight end, why because he can block occasionally with Florida in certain sets and situations? I can't recall him catching a ball with the Gators, where have you found such faith in his abilities as a world class TE?

The pro game is littered with players that were phenomenal in college and failed to live up to expectations in the pro game. Honestly I hope he can translate what he has achieved with Florida, where he is arguably one of the greatest collegiate players of all time, and be a productive player in the NFL but it wont be because of the wildcat-it will be more that pro offenses are changing to incorperate the spread and an awful lot more shotgun snaps

tallaghtoutlaws

frostie500 wrote: »

I'm a big fan of Tebow, and honestly think that he will be play QB in the NFL at some point in time if he's given time at a team and drafted at a reasonable level so as to be afforded that time.

However I dont understand how you can say that he will be a top tight end, why because he can block occasionally with Florida in certain sets and situations? I can't recall him catching a ball with the Gators, where have you found such faith in his abilities as a world class TE?

The pro game is littered with players that were phenomenal in college and failed to live up to expectations in the pro game. Honestly I hope he can translate what he has achieved with Florida, where he is arguably one of the greatest collegiate players of all time, and be a productive player in the NFL but it wont be because of the wildcat-it will be more that pro offenses are changing to incorperate the spread and an awful lot more shotgun snaps

When are people going to realise Tebows Pro abilities are questioned due to his throwing ability. Its funny that his backup John Brantley at Florida is known to have a better arm than Tebow and will take over from Tebow when he graduates. If Tebows throwing ability was of an NFL standard there would be no question he would be headed to the NFL as a QB. But the fact the Florida playbook gives Tebow freedom to move this will hamper his recruitment in the NFL.

The pro game is littered with players that were phenomenal in college and failed to live up to expectations in the pro game

Funny thing is dude you kind of contradicted yourself saying this :D:D

There is no doubt if given the chance Tebow can succeed but it will be alot of hard work on his part and a patient QB coach and coaching staff at whatever team lands him. He wont be the type of player who will get gametime straight away as the minute he leaves the pocket in the NFL he wont have the same time to move and will have Linebackers and Dlinemen on top of him who are bigger stronger and faster than what he is used to.

Edit: as for the Tight End thing you do know as a freshman and sophmore in HS he was a TE? He was home schooled and his parents decided to change schools to give Tim the chance to play QB as the Coach at the HS he started in wouldnt let him.

frostie500

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

When are people going to realise Tebows Pro abilities are questioned due to his throwing ability.

The level I think that Tebow should be drafted as is as a late rounder(say the 5th like Troy Smith went) if he goes at that stage of the draft he can get some time to develop as pro. He's going to go early though because a team like the Jags has said they need to take him so as to remain viable in the area and that's why he will not got any time to become a better passer before playing in the pros. I don't think he should be an early round pick mostly due to the fact that he does have issues with his accuracy, but I do think that due to the success he has had in college he deserves an opportunity to play in the NFL.

as for the Tight End thing you do know as a freshman and sophmore in HS he was a TE? He was home schooled and his parents decided to change schools to give Tim the chance to play QB as the Coach at the HS he started in wouldnt let him.

I didn't know this, but at the same time it doesn't change that he hasn't played as a pass catcher in four years and high school ball is a fair bit different to college ball and I cant see how it can project to the pro game. That's the point I was making in relation to Tebow as a TE in the NFL.