Audi A4 Flywheel Lifespan

brandon_flowers

I am currently driving an Audi A4 2.0 tdi and the flywheel has just gone in it at 80,000 miles. Nothing wrong with that as its a common problem with the Dual Mass Flywheel. The problem is the insurance company who I hold the warranty with (yes an insurance company, as garages now get insurance companies to insure cars against breaking down instead of the standard warranty) They say that this it is down to wear and tear and refuse to cover any of the costs. My argument with them is that Audi hardly designed the flywheel to last only 80,000 miles yet they say its reached the end of its useful life The worst thing is the car has been up on the lift at a garage since last Wednesday while waiting for their assessor to come look at it. I have even read through all the small print and terms and conditions and I firmly believe it should be covered. Even the garage believe it should be covered but its not their decision.

I am thinking of legal route/ombudsman because the documetation they provided before I paid for the warranty is now false.

Any advise?

mickdw

These dual mass flywheels do seem to be wear item. Its completely wrong of course that they are only giving such short serviceable life but I guess the warranty people are saying .... if it goes in each car of this model between 60 & 100k miles (which they generally do) then it is a wear item and not a warranty issue.
Having said that, The manufacturers are covering them under warranty whereas they wouldnt cover wear items so maybe that would be your argument.

brandon_flowers

I agree, its hardly the owners fault that Audi put a s*** flywheel into their cars. I'm sure the design life is a lot more than 100,000 miles and they didnt expect it to last such a short time. Hence the whole reason a warranty is given in the first place.

trad

Before the advent of the dual mass flywheel, flywheels were usually only replaced if the ring gear was damaged. Worn friction surfaces were refaced and flywheel replacement was a rareity. Seems to be an (expensive) service item. I had a vw caravelle and the dual mass damper went on the front pulley twice at €350 each and had to get the flywheel replaced when the clutch release bearing broke. (€1100)

brandon_flowers

OK now this is after getting a bit too dramatic for my liking. Flywheel and clutch replaced by the garage and they started up the car, it will barely pull out of the workshop. Mechanic is fairly sure the turbo is gone. Dont know if one affected the other but there was def no problem with the turbo before. Anyone have any idea how much a replacement turbo costs?

OldmanMondeo

Hold up, are you sure the garage put the correct DMF on. If the wrong DMF is fitted it will cause major problems with the car starting and driving. All VAG cars have an engine code, ie BKE, AVW etc. The 1.9TDi A4 has 9 different engine codes. I would be looking at this before the Turbo is replaced, if the turbo is gone shoudl the car still not drive?

brandon_flowers

The car drives but not like normal obviously. The DMF and clutch are definitely correct, the Audi garage wouldnt give me one without the chassis number off my car first. Apart from the engine blowing up I cant see how this can get any worse. If the warranty company dont cover a blown turbo I might as well buy a push bike.

OldmanMondeo

brandon_flowers wrote: »

The car drives but not like normal obviously. The DMF and clutch are definitely correct, the Audi garage wouldnt give me one without the chassis number off my car first. Apart from the engine blowing up I cant see how this can get any worse. If the warranty company dont cover a blown turbo I might as well buy a push bike.

Ok, I would go with the Audi dealer on the VIN number. Sorry to hear. I priced a Turbo before for a Mondeo, thankfully I didn't need it. From what I remember it was north of €1,000 for the part only.

stevenmu

For the flywheel I would check if manufacturing defects are covered under the warranty. IMHO this would be clearly classed as a manufacturing defect. If it was a 'wear and tear' item it would be designed to be replaceable, and AFAIK the main difficulty/expense with replacing them is that it's a tricky thing to do.

brandon_flowers

stevenmu wrote: »

For the flywheel I would check if manufacturing defects are covered under the warranty. IMHO this would be clearly classed as a manufacturing defect. If it was a 'wear and tear' item it would be designed to be replaceable, and AFAIK the main difficulty/expense with replacing them is that it's a tricky thing to do.

Manufacturing defects are covered, thats the thing thats pi**ing me off. But they are saying its not a defect and its reached the end of its useful life because of wear and tear.

trad

I'm starting to think the mileage on the car might be higher than that displayed on the odometer. Did you check the mileage before you bought it?

Only an opinion

maidhc

trad wrote: »

I'm starting to think the mileage on the car might be higher than that displayed on the odometer. Did you check the mileage before you bought it?

Only an opinion

why do you suspect that?

trad

maidhc wrote: »

why do you suspect that?

A combination of components failing and what I would consider relatively modest mileage. It can be eliminated as a cause by doing a mileage / history check. If the mileage is genuine look elsewhere for a cause. It's a matter of eliminating the cause of the failure of the components. I assume all the usual causes have been looked at.

maidhc

trad wrote: »

A combination of components failing and what I would consider relatively modest mileage. It can be eliminated as a cause by doing a mileage / history check. If the mileage is genuine look elsewhere for a cause. It's a matter of eliminating the cause of the failure of the components. I assume all the usual causes have been looked at.

Dunno, flywheel in my Focus failed at 85k, Flywheel in my parents avensis failed at 60k. Nothing really odd about 80k.

Likewise turbos die young, especially if not treated very sympathetically.

brandon_flowers

Ive been through the service history a good few times, all Audi Main Dealers and nothing looks suspect TBH. Everything else seems to be in good knick, I dont know if it is just my look. Latest update is turbo is deffo gone, €1,450 for a new one. Prob another 800-1000 in labour.

trad

Well thats my diagnosis ruled out. I've worked in the motor trade and it's not unusual for a car to go to tír na nÓg for a while.

galwaytt

brandon_flowers wrote: »

I agree, its hardly the owners fault that Audi put a s*** flywheel into their cars. I'm sure the design life is a lot more than 100,000 miles and they didnt expect it to last such a short time. Hence the whole reason a warranty is given in the first place.

Unfortunately not - DMF's are a wearing part - they are not a simple substitute for a traditional solid flywheel, and yes, your mileage is just about when they go, so I'm afraid I don't see you getting any warranty on it, no more than just the clutch plate itself.

It may feel like a **** flywheel, but it is in fact, exactly what they are supposed to do - wear out. The alternative is worn gearboxes, crankshafts and any other number of bits'n'pieces.......

tin79

sorry to hear that. As someone whos wifes car has just been through a flywheel, CSC and clutch replacement i feel your pain

went at 85K btw, seems anything from 65 to 90 k is fairly standard

maidhc

galwaytt wrote: »

It may feel like a **** flywheel, but it is in fact, exactly what they are supposed to do - wear out. The alternative is worn gearboxes, crankshafts and any other number of bits'n'pieces.......

No, it is a failed technology in fairness.

OldmanMondeo

maidhc wrote: »

No, it is a failed technology in fairness.

Failed for the end user, a sucess for the manufacture.

unkel

maidhc wrote: »

No, it is a failed technology in fairness.

Yeah, a bit like timing belts.

brandon_flowers

There is no doubt its a failed technology, nearly all manufacturers have discontinued it. If it comes to it that I've to pay to replace the turbo I'll have spent 3600 quid to get it back on the road. I only bought the car in April, I definitely think the solictors letters will have to be used.

Nonoperational

Mapfre warranty?

brandon_flowers

gpf101 wrote: »

Mapfre warranty?

No, MB&G Insurance. Why?

Nonoperational

Had the same experience myself. Synchro worn in the gearbox so couldnt change into 3rd. No go as its wear and tear. Thery are poor stuff those insurance based "warranties".

galwaytt

brandon_flowers wrote: »

There is no doubt its a failed technology, nearly all manufacturers have discontinued it. If it comes to it that I've to pay to replace the turbo I'll have spent 3600 quid to get it back on the road. I only bought the car in April, I definitely think the solictors letters will have to be used.

I wish you luck, but bearing in mind you'll be paying the solr as well, and you'll still get a 'no', then, you need to do the math before you get sucked in.

galwaytt

maidhc wrote: »

No, it is a failed technology in fairness.

Maybe so, but it has moving parts ergo, it'll wear. Wear and Tear is excluded.

luckyluckyman

I feel your pain. I have an a4 avant with just under 60,000 and its out of warranty this week. My brother in law told me last week about a car he sold needing a flywheel at 40,000 and it was the same age as mine. He described the sympton as a vibration coming and going when the car was idling. My car has had that since i got it 6 months ago so I went straight to the Audi dealers and got it witnessed within my warranty dates and within a few hundred miles of the 60,000 limit!! Today I got a brand new flywheel and clutch fitted under warranty. Apparently it would have cost me £1100.... I think id be talking to citizens advice and bringing up the sale of goods act which covers a product for as long as a "reasonable" person believes it should last. I think most reasonable people would expect a flywheel and clutch to last a lot longer than these ones are...