SPAM from Micheal Martin

Liam Byrne

I got this bull**** today :

Dear Liam,

In the last few days thousands of people have been out working incredibly hard for a "Yes" vote on Lisbon this Friday. I want to thank all of you.

People have donated their time. Many have donated money.

They've joined the campaign because they believe that Ireland and Europe are stronger together. They got involved because they wanted to fight back at Coir, UKIP and Libertas' campaigns.

The Taoiseach was out campaigning for a "Yes" vote in Galway this weekend, talking to people, hearing their concerns and working tirelessly for a positive result on Friday. We recorded a short video of his trip.
Watch it now:
The Taoiseach, campaigning in Galway

The polls are encouraging. But we can't take anything for granted. There are still a lot of undecided voters and we need to make sure that hard campaigning translates into results at the ballot box. In the last few days, I've been out canvassing in four constituencies and I've seen that the more we get our message out to people, the stronger the "Yes" vote will be. Our case is very strong.

But there's still much to do. This battle for Ireland's future is still yet to be won - and you have an important role to play in it. Watch the Taoiseach out campaigning and remind your family, friends and colleagues to vote "Yes" on Friday.

http://www.strongerwitheurope.ie/yes

We have only a couple of days before Ireland goes to the polls. We all need to make sure we do all that we can to ensure we get the right result.

As the Taoiseach said earlier this week: "This is not a campaign where people can stand on the sidelines. If you believe that Ireland and Europe work better together then play a role in the final days of this campaign".

We can't do this without you. Get involved and, most importantly, remember to vote "Yes" on Friday.

Micheál Martin, TD

P.S. If you want to support our Lisbon campaign, but aren't able to get out on the streets canvassing, please consider making a small donation - every Euro will help us make our positive case for "Yes".

And I replied as follows:

TO WHOM IT CONCERNS

I visited your website earlier this year to leave a comment; I DID NOT SUBSCRIBE TO ANY MAILING LIST, and so your repeated abuse of this email address is 100% contrary to the Data Protection Act.

If you wish me to take this further, I will; I am under no obligation to click an "unsubscribe" link, and I request that you IMMEDIATELY REMOVE ME FROM YOUR MAILING LIST.

As for Fianna Fail campaigns and requesting that I "watch it now"; forget it! I would be SEVERELY interested in watching the Taoiseach FIRE (not "request the resignation of" or call "honourable") the useless cheats that have wasted OUR money (incidentally something that was also done with useless e-Voting machines - remember those ? ) and those who screwed up OUR economy. Sean Fitzpatrick, Rody Molloy, Bertie Ahern and John O'Donoghue for starters.

So rather than patting yourselves on the back and uploading self-congratulatory videos, I'd prefer if Fianna got their fingers out of the backsides of vested interests and their buddies and actually did something worthwhile that was in the interests of the ordinary people of this island.

Better still, do the entire country a favour and call a GENERAL ELECTION

Your party had your chance to be seen to do something worthwhile in the 10 years that this country actually had some money, and your party screwed it up, making the impact of the global downturn 100 times worse; and your party takes absolutely no responsibility or action to ensure that things are fixed.

I trust that I will not be receiving any more of your pointless emails.

Liam Byrne

P.S. If you GENUINELY thought that I matters (as per your email's subject line) you would be ensuring that I can earn enough of a living to survive, and not ensuring that those who couldn't do their jobs - Fianna Fail included - have more money and pensions than I could ever dream of having.

Liam Byrne

P.S. I just spotted something; Thunderbird is more intelligent than you'd think!

They won't read the bits in lower case letters.

And they won't even read the shouty bits!

Joey the lips

Ahh yes but you still have not answered the question. Is that a yes vote or a no vote....:P

DoireNod

If he or someone affiliated with him actually does read your response, they'll realise that you mean 'SERIOUS INTERNET BUSINESS!'. Their ignorance incurred the caps-lock attack!

DoireNod

DoireNod wrote: »

Their ignorance incurred the caps-lock attack!

It could have done with more exclamation marks though.

Shouty and punchy gets the message across.

Kalashnikov_Kid

I would imagine all those capital letters would hurt their eyes - nice idea!

Liam Byrne

DoireNod wrote: »

If he or someone affiliated with him actually does read your response, they'll realise that you mean 'SERIOUS INTERNET BUSINESS!'. Their ignorance incurred the caps-lock attack!

When I received it I nearly screamed in anger, so the caps-lock attack was restrained, I can tell ya! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I mean, FF don't bother reading reports and yet they have time to video PR stunts and upload them to a website and spam people ?

I wonder which of Micheal Martin's relations - sorry, staff - is sending these out, and how much we're paying them ?

And the cheek of the **** asking for donations; as if any ordinary person has any cash left after their reverse "smash-and-grab" bank job of the last six months!

Darragh29

Ya know Liam that e-mail you got actually sounds like something that came straight out of the Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Public_Enlightenment_and_Propaganda

Dr. Goebbels couldn't have done better! Honestly I'm nothing less than alarmed at the suggestion that you should look at the video of Biffo down in Galway!

Unless the man and his useless cabinet of absolute failures are tied to a stack of pallets with smoke rising up around them, I don't think it would interest me to be honest!

Overheal

Im not surprised they have the gall to ask people to cough up more money for their bull****.

Mr.Micro

It looks like FF are rattled re getting a YES vote the second time of asking. FF got nothing else right so it is desperate by any means to bludgeon a Yes vote. Pathetic coming from the weedy pretender would be wanabe Taoiseach Micheal Martin::(

lostexpectation

remember the launch of the website, and the heralding of involvement of blue state digital, there key performance in the us elections was getting emails for donations, the famous founder of bsd used to be direct marketer, the bsd set up the website to steer you to send the info on to others from the site and therefore harvest their emails aswell.

Liam Byrne

Well, if that's the case following the controversial outsourcing of the site to an American company while screaming "support our own", it doesn't put "blue state digital" in a good light, if they don't know the legalities of the countries in which they're dealing.

The Americans might allow SPAM, forcing you to opt-out, but Irish law requires an "opt-in" mechanism.

So - how do I go about suing FF under the Data Protection Act ? Although TBH, that's unfortunately only a jokey comment, because (since I, unlike FF and Blue State Digital) know the law, they're just obliged to remove me from their brainwash sorry, mailing list now that I've pointed it out to them.

HOWEVER if they DO send me any more crap and propaganda, I'll THEN be entitled to follow up on it......

Dannyboy83

I'm subscribed to the Number 10 Newsletter from the British Government, http://www.number10.gov.uk/
They use an Irish company called Newsweaver.:D

Fianna Fail don't support a homegrown Irish company and instead are paying for an American service, that pretty much sums up this government:rolleyes:.
Utter Fail is utter.

Fcuking Clowns.

Liam Byrne

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Fianna Fail don't support a homegrown Irish company and instead are paying for an American service, that pretty much sums up this government:rolleyes:

Separate issue (although I do remember their double-standards when some idiot from FF was on the radio castigating the GAA for not supporting Irish, and his answer when this was pointed out was "errr...they did Obama's website, and we could do with a bit of Obama") - idiots! We could do with Obama alright, but there's no Obama in FF, and paying the crowd that did his website doesn't mean you get him.... :rolleyes:

But this thread is about them spamming - breaking Irish law - and using the spam to show self-praising videos of Cowen out and about (in Galway, near where the future-of-Ireland-screwing tent used to be!!!!), and being stupid enough to ask for donations from people who've visited their website - TO COMPLAIN AT THEIR INEPTITUDE AND CORRUPTION !!!!! :mad:

Joey the lips

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I'm subscribed to the Number 10 Newsletter from the British Government, http://www.number10.gov.uk/
They use an Irish company called Newsweaver.:D

Fianna Fail don't support a homegrown Irish company and instead are paying for an American service, that pretty much sums up this government:rolleyes:.
Utter Fail is utter.

Fcuking Clowns.

There is a strange irony about this mail that you dont get.

Dannyboy83

Liam Byrne wrote: »

But this thread is about them spamming - breaking Irish law - and using the spam to show self-praising videos of Cowen out and about (in Galway, near where the future-of-Ireland-screwing tent used to be!!!!), and being stupid enough to ask for donations from people who've visited their website - TO COMPLAIN AT THEIR INEPTITUDE AND CORRUPTION !!!!! :mad:

TBH, I doubt they've been spamming.
Besides the law, it also has fairly major implications for their service, depending on how it was done of course.

I would guess either one of your friends signed you up to the email for a laugh, assuming your vocal with your disgust of Fianna Fail like I am, but the problem with this theory is that you'd still need to approve the subscription.

The other theory is that you subscribed yourself in the past and forgot about it.

Dannyboy83

Joey the lips wrote: »

There is a strange irony about this mail that you dont get.

Enlighten me

p.s. if your referring to the fact that I praise the British for buying Irish and criticize Fianna Fail for not buying Irish, well.........1st, Gordon Brown never told us last September that it was our national duty to buy Irish, which Fianna Fail did, after they increased the vat rate and all the Dubs fcuked off to the Northen Ireland and 2nd, that company I mentioned there are the European leader, so presumably Brown wanted the best for the job, who just happened to be Irish.

thebman

Deleted User wrote: »

They won't read the bits in lower case letters.

And they won't even read the shouty bits!

Probably not they'll just keep breaching the data protection act.

Liam Byrne

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The other theory is that you subscribed yourself in the past and forgot about it.

Dream on! :rolleyes: I hear enough bull**** from this shower via the news and The Last Word; I can categorically say that I have never have expressed interest in receiving it via email too !!!

Dannyboy83

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Dream on! :rolleyes: I hear enough bull**** from this shower via the news and The Last Word; I can categorically say that I have never have expressed interest in receiving it via email too !!!

Well, I'm not sure if you have a technical background....I do.

As you can see on the email provided, you are addressed by your first name, it says: "Dear Liam". (Odds are about 1 in 7 Billion)

So in order to spam your email address, they have three options:
A) Send out 6.5 billion emails with the "Dear Liam" title, not the most effective spamming campaign I'd wager
Buy your email address from another company who are aware of you political interest & have your personal details on file
or C) Get the email address from your service provider.

Remember, they didn't just have your email address, they also were aware that your first name was Liam, which means they likely have more details.

I received the same email myself, but I've been subscribed to their mailing list for a long time.

If you still disagree with the above, I would pursue it with (not legal threats, but I would demand to know where they acquired your personal information as you could be the victim of identity theft).
One simple phonecall and they should be able to confirm the exact time and date that you subscribed, assuming you did subscribe.

Liam Byrne

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Well, I'm not sure if you have a technical background....I do.

LMAO! I actually work in the internet industry, so I have a perfectly good technical background too, and here's a few points to enlighten you.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

As you can see on the email provided, you are addressed by your first name, it says: "Dear Liam". (Odds are about 1 in 7 Billion)

"Dear [PLACEHOLDER]" is VERY simple to insert from a mailing list / database; I've personally implemented this for legitimate membership sites.

Secondly, you earlier implied that if someone else subscribed me, I'd have to confirm, but implied that if I did personally then I wouldn't ? funnily enough, whether it was me or someone else that typed in my details on the FF website, the website wouldn't differentiate and would send a confirmation (or not) either way. So again, well wide of the mark for someone with a technical background.

The only alternative to the above is if you know an automated email address to which you can send an email from your own email account in order to subscribe, which I don't......because - guess what - I've never subscribed!

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

So in order to spam your email address, they have three options:
:
:

Remember, they didn't just have your email address, they also were aware that your first name was Liam, which means they likely have more details.

Absolute rubbish :rolleyes: Did you even READ my post before deciding to come to their defence ? I know EXACTLY where they got the details from - it's there in black and white in my very first post!

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I visited your website earlier this year to leave a comment; I DID NOT SUBSCRIBE TO ANY MAILING LIST, and so your repeated abuse of this email address is 100% contrary to the Data Protection Act.

Visiting a website and leaving a comment entitles them to reply (if the contact so requires) but does NOT entitle them to add you to a mailing list.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

One simple phonecall and they should be able to confirm the exact time and date that you subscribed, assuming you did subscribe.

Talk about condescending bull****; as if the first line of your post wasn't bad (and incorrect) enough (and your equally incorrect and patronising earlier comment "and forgot about it" :rolleyes:) you go on to say "assuming you did subscribe" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:????

Exactly what part of...

Liam Byrne wrote:

I can categorically say that I have never have expressed interest in receiving it via email too

...didn't you understand ?

So quit defending them (and making patronising and condescending comments); you've subscribed to this, so I presume you're an FF follower, but I DID NOT. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

sceptre

About 40% more calm would be good right now.

Scofflaw

Chances are, I fear, that they've bought in a list. However, one need not be a Fianna Fáil supporter to wish to know what they're up to.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Liam Byrne

Well I checked my emails and there was an earlier complaint that I sent directly from that - about misuse of Oireachtas headed paper; interestingly, it was sent directly to Today FM and the local radio station, and was only CC'd to "info@fiannafail.ie"....

So maybe they lifted that email (which would have had my name as well as the email address); either way, it's SPAM, because it certainly didn't go to any "subscribe me" email address or indicate an interest in retrieving any PR spin and propaganda.

Or maybe Scofflaw's right; maybe the email and the comment on their site are coincidental; however that email address is DEFINITELY NOT on any legitimate "sold" lists, whether they're trawling the FF site, or emails, or even Facebook and elsewhere to harvest emails, or buying addresses from someone who does engage in that, then they're still doing stuff that's against the law.

Fact is, I did not subscribe, and it's a personal email address, not a company one.

So they're well out of line, legally.

Dannyboy83

Liam Byrne wrote: »

LMAO! I actually work in the internet industry, so I have a perfectly good technical background too, and here's a few points to enlighten you.




"Dear [PLACEHOLDER]" is VERY simple to insert from a mailing list / database; I've personally implemented this for legitimate membership sites.

Secondly, you earlier implied that if someone else subscribed me, I'd have to confirm, but implied that if I did personally then I wouldn't ? funnily enough, whether it was me or someone else that typed in my details on the FF website, the website wouldn't differentiate and would send a confirmation (or not) either way. So again, well wide of the mark for someone with a technical background.

The only alternative to the above is if you know an automated email address to which you can send an email from your own email account in order to subscribe, which I don't......because - guess what - I've never subscribed!



Absolute rubbish :rolleyes: Did you even READ my post before deciding to come to their defence ? I know EXACTLY where they got the details from - it's there in black and white in my very first post!



Visiting a website and leaving a comment entitles them to reply (if the contact so requires) but does NOT entitle them to add you to a mailing list.



Talk about condescending bull****; as if the first line of your post wasn't bad (and incorrect) enough (and your equally incorrect and patronising earlier comment "and forgot about it" :rolleyes:) you go on to say "assuming you did subscribe" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:????

Exactly what part of...



...didn't you understand ?

So quit defending them (and making patronising and condescending comments); you've subscribed to this, so I presume you're an FF follower, but I DID NOT. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

Liam,
I was simply trying to help you, but to be honest, given that last aggressive spiel, I couldn't be bothered.

Have a read back over your own post and see it from my point of view.

Take a chill pill,
Dan

p.s.
If you've inserted it yourself, then you should know that you can insert a placeholder, but you need to draw the variable from somewhere. In order to apply that variable correctly, you need to know its associated with the email address. Do you understand?
If you don't understand that, then you don't understand the concept of spamming.

Secondly, I never implied anything of the sort. Go find a girlfriend or something, lifes too short man.

Disclaimer: I'm neither a FF follower, nor making excuses for them.

Scofflaw

OK, well that was an ugly discussion.

Dannyboy83, if someone is taking offence, how about you stop pushing the line that offends them? Liam did make it clear that he hadn't subscribed to Fianna Fáil's email lists, and that he found the suggestion offensive.

Liam, Dannyboy83 really is only trying to help - try not to take offence so easily.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Liam Byrne

My apologies for going a little OTT; Danny, the bit that got to me was indeed the repeated implication that I had "subscribed but forgot", and the reason I got "aggressive" was because you repeatedly ignored this and that pissed me off.

Sending SPAM such as this does indeed involve combining a name with an email address - that's easy enough to spoof if the email is "joe@company.com", but the email address in question isn't my firstname@anything.com

All I can think of - on "mature recollection" - is that because the Americans have their "can-spam/opt-OUT" law, that those who set up the FF site did this; either that or - in the web company's defence - FF "did" buy-in a list from a dodgy source, or decide to SPAM everyone who'd commented on their site.

Dannyboy83

Liam Byrne wrote: »

My apologies for going a little OTT; Danny, the bit that got to me was indeed the repeated implication that I had "subscribed but forgot", and the reason I got "aggressive" was because you repeatedly ignored this and that pissed me off.

Fair play, my apologies also as I didn't realize you had taken such offense to idea that you had subscribed.
The reason I cited this is because I see this issue on a regular basis (I work in the IT newsletter industry), so you honestly would not believe how many people subscribe and then forget.

Sending SPAM such as this does indeed involve combining a name with an email address - that's easy enough to spoof if the email is "joe@company.com", but the email address in question isn't my firstname@anything.com

This was precisely my point.
This is why I don't believe they were spamming you.
First anyway, if Fianna Fail did spam people, anyone on the likes of Gmail or Yahoo ,people would never get their email as it would be sent straight to Junk. In fact, if enough people subscribe to their site and then send it to the junk, this will happen anyway.:D

Secondly, they wouldn't be aware that your name is Liam or have further private info, if your email is gobbeldygook@gmail.com

So the theories were you had subscribed and forgotten, or they had bought your details from somewhere else.
Occam's razor said that you subscribe and forgot, because I didn't hear anyone else mention that they got this email, and I can't think of why Fianna Fail would be targetting people who hate them with their email marketing.

Anyway, you are adamant that you did not subscribe, so lets leave that alone and go with the 2nd theory.

All I can think of - on "mature recollection" - is that because the Americans have their "can-spam/opt-OUT" law, that those who set up the FF site did this; either that or - in the web company's defence - FF "did" buy-in a list from a dodgy source, or decide to SPAM everyone who'd commented on their site.

You should pursue the matter and ask to know where they acquired your details.
This is easy to do, they will be able to check your subscriber details and see the activation date. If the activation date is within recent memory, then there is an issue and we can talk about it more.

Just do a quick search of your email account and see if you have any other emails from Fianna Fail first. (I have emails going back to Thursday 12th March for Fianna Fail and further for Fine Gael)

ectoraige

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The Americans might allow SPAM, forcing you to opt-out, but Irish law requires an "opt-in" mechanism.

So - how do I go about suing FF under the Data Protection Act ? Although TBH, that's unfortunately only a jokey comment, because (since I, unlike FF and Blue State Digital) know the law, they're just obliged to remove me from their brainwash sorry, mailing list now that I've pointed it out to them.

On a further note, wasn't there some form of exemption for policitical and religous organisations?

Liam Byrne

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This was precisely my point.
This is why I don't believe they were spamming you.

And my point is that just because they have both email address and real name in a database does not mean that it's not SPAM; SPAM is unsolicited and unwanted marketing emails/newsletters, and like I said, even if I did indirectly "give" them both details (e.g. by posting on their website) they are not entitled to use it - it's still SPAM.

Unless you've ticked a box saying "subscribe me to receive other correspondence / newsletter" (or the RyanAir version of "don't subscribe me...") it's still SPAM.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I can't think of why Fianna Fail would be targetting people who hate them with their email marketing.

Me either! But then there's LOTS of things that FF do that I can't comprehend, so that's hardly a revelation!

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Anyway, you are adamant that you did not subscribe, so lets leave that alone and go with the 2nd theory.

Phew!

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

You should pursue the matter and ask to know where they acquired your details.

Considering it alright, since I don't like the idea of them bending/breaking rule, but I'll wait and see if they email me again (the above was the second unrequested/unsolicited email from them, with the first being on Sept 4th with a subject of "Your Vote".

Maybe ectoraige is correct and they're exempt from the rules (wouldn't surprise me) in the same way as they are apparently "entitled" to use the electoral register to send you both official and relevant info regardling an election (acceptable) as well as PR and the moneywasting "vote for me - I'm brilliant even though you've never heard of me" rubbish....

Scofflaw

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Considering it alright, since I don't like the idea of them bending/breaking rule, but I'll wait and see if they email me again (the above was the second unrequested/unsolicited email from them, with the first being on Sept 4th with a subject of "Your Vote".

Maybe ectoraige is correct and they're exempt from the rules (wouldn't surprise me) in the same way as they are apparently "entitled" to use the electoral register to send you both official and relevant info regardling an election (acceptable) as well as PR and the moneywasting "vote for me - I'm brilliant even though you've never heard of me" rubbish....

I'm afraid ectoraige is right - political parties have an exemption. That means that Fianna Fáil can buy any list they like and fire off emails to it.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dannyboy83

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Maybe ectoraige is correct and they're exempt from the rules (wouldn't surprise me) in the same way as they are apparently "entitled" to use the electoral register to send you both official and relevant info regardling an election (acceptable) as well as PR and the moneywasting "vote for me - I'm brilliant even though you've never heard of me" rubbish....

The law differs from country to country.
In Ireland, the rule is usually B2C is opt in and B2B is opt out.
Ireland (legally) tends to stick more to EU law (although practice doesn't always follow law as you well know), but some countries such as Netherland for example recently changed their law in June and follow different legislation.
Mailing countries are not obliged to inform the customer of the legal changes afaik, that is the client responsibility.
All countries legally need to provide an opt out ability.

If they really did just buy a prospect mailing list, I can't emphasise enough how stupid they are in the current political and economic climate - everyone will be junking their emails which will lead to a blacklisting of their service.

After you received the 1st email, did you specifically opt out of receiving further communication?

With regard to the exemption, I'm not positive about that, I've consulted with somebody else (there are various loopholes i.e. is it government or is it all political parties etc.)

Dannyboy83

http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=907
See Question 3.

I was told with regard to this specific case, the best thing to do is to ring [FONT=&quot]057 868 4800 and ask a specific question.
[/FONT]

Liam Byrne

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

After you received the 1st email, did you specifically opt out of receiving further communication?

No. Like I said, I shouldn't have to. I didn't ask for the first one either, and (as far as I was aware) Irish law is opt-on, not opt-out.

Scofflaw appears to have it sussed, if they have "exemptions" (similar to the law on expenses, where you and I have to justify them and provide receipts while they can just do whatever they like).

And if so, then unfortunately they've broken no law; they're just being idiotic and deluded.

Nothing new there then.

P.S. Probably no point ringing them to ask them where the hell they got it; a Freedom of Information Request costs a fortune!

Dannyboy83

Well, you know how these things work anyway, the ESB completely misspelled my name in a laughable way last year when I started a new contract after moving house, then about a week later I received a letter from the TV License crowd with my name misspelled in the same laughable way.

lostexpectation

the sender can't actually track who you forward a mail to if you receive it in your inbox can they? which this article on bsd seems to be suggesting http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jan/26/bnp-griffin-obama-election-bsd

Searchlight, has sent thousands of emails asking each recipients to forward it to five friends and make a small donation. The software means campaigners can then track who opens the emails, where they are sent and what happens when they arrive at the other end - tailoring future emails to groups and individuals

are-blue-state-digital-tracking-ngo-campaign-emails although i think barackobama.com has it own email system

-

either people are presuming out of good netiquette that if you don't sign up to mailing list you won't get put on one, and why would a reputable org like ff do that?, or don't realise that forwarding the email from within the site will sign up those people too.

wrote about at the time on p.ie
http://www.politics.ie/fianna-fail/48663-fianna-fail-new-website-2.html#post1463558


theres is an unsubscribe option of the bottom of each mail

To unsubscribe, go to:
http://fiannafail.ie/unsubscribe

what worse is when you have to become a 'fan' or 'member' of astroturf orgs like genyes in order to follow what theyre up to and they quote those numbers as some sort of endorsement