What would be your assault rifle of choice ?

McArmalite

What would be your assault rifle of choice and why ? ( Note I have asked rifle, not answers such as RPG, Leopard tank etc ) This might surprise you given my username, but I went for the good old AK47. Well, because it's so durable and practically jam free. I watched a program on Discovery and they were comparing weapons etc and one fan of the AK47 said he attached by rope to a car, dragged it along a beach for 200 meters, took it up and if fired perfectly. I would imagine no other assault rifle for good and bad reasons has killed more pople than Mr. Mikhail Kalashnikov weapon.

Hezbollah have it on their flag such is it's popularity with those gentlemen.

iceage

No SLR/FN...:(

marco murphy

Would have to be the Avtomat Kalashnikova 47

McArmalite

iceage wrote: »

No SLR/FN...:(

Fair enough. I fired the FN in my days in the FCA and it is indeed a fine weapon. If their is enough posts mentioning a particular weapon such as the FN, Heckler & Koch MP5, FAMAS or whatever I'll edit the poll to include it.

Manic Moran

No SLR/FN...

That would be considered a battle rifle, not an assault rifle.

The AK is on the Mozambique flag as well.

It is said that if you want AK reliability with Western quality and accuracy, you need to look no further than the SIG 55Xs. Taking a gander at the internals, you can see how SIG took the basic design of the AK and tweaked it a little. Plus the trigger is absolutely beautiful. If they ever made those in a bullpup format, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. (I already own a 556). However, I think 'AK-reliability' is a bit overrated. I'm not planning on dumping any rifle I own in mud, running over it with a truck, leaving it in salt water for a week, urinating on it to clean it, and then shoot it. Great sales pitch, but for practical purposes, I'll deal with 'good enough.'

It was a very close decision between my buying an AXR (basically an improved AUG) and the F2000, and there are arguments to both. AUG really is a very good design, and FN has rarely (ever?) made a poor firearm. However, if it were legal for me to buy it, I'd have taken a serious look at Tavor. Unfortunately, I have not played with it so I cannot state whether or not I'd actually like it. Reputation's good, though.

NTM

McArmalite

Manic Moran wrote: »

That would be considered a battle rifle, not an assault rifle.

The AK is on the Mozambique flag as well.

It is said that if you want AK reliability with Western quality and accuracy, you need to look no further than the SIG 55Xs. Taking a gander at the internals, you can see how SIG took the basic design of the AK and tweaked it a little. Plus the trigger is absolutely beautiful. If they ever made those in a bullpup format, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. (I already own a 556). However, I think 'AK-reliability' is a bit overrated. I'm not planning on dumping any rifle I own in mud, running over it with a truck, leaving it in salt water for a week, urinating on it to clean it, and then shoot it. Great sales pitch, but for practical purposes, I'll deal with 'good enough.'

It was a very close decision between my buying an AXR (basically an improved AUG) and the F2000, and there are arguments to both. AUG really is a very good design, and FN has rarely (ever?) made a poor firearm. However, if it were legal for me to buy it, I'd have taken a serious look at Tavor. Unfortunately, I have not played with it so I cannot state whether or not I'd actually like it. Reputation's good, though.

NTM

So which of the above did you vote for, the H & K G36 ?

Manic Moran

Didn't vote.

G36 is a very nice rifle, and I found it surprisingly light. Would have preferred a longer barrel, though.

I might go vote for AUG of the list. I'll see if anything else interesting shows up.

NTM

McArmalite

Aherne and Paisley's choice of weapon.

P.C.

For me it would depend on what you want from an assault rifle, and where you are going to use it.

If it is jungle/closer range warfare, then it is the AK47 every time. It will spray bullets, but not very acurately. The sound and rate of fire are quite intimidating.

If it is longer range warfare, such as mountain or desert warfare, I would go for something with more acuracy, and a higher muzzel velocity. Rate of fire would not be as important in these situations - acuracy is more important. Maybe a FN.

pmg58

Might I suggest adding more up to date weapons in the AK family, i.e. the AK74? Often gets mistaken for the AK47 as it looks very similar, but is a more modern version. In fact there are plenty more modern versions than that too.

pmg58

Might be handy to know:

Definition of assault rifle, from Wikipedia:

In a strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:

• It must be an individual weapon with provision to fire from the shoulder (i.e. a buttstock);
• It must be capable of selective fire;
• It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle;
• Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable box magazine.

iceage

Hmmm selective fire... the AK's first stop on its selector is full auto...kind of a hint as to how it was designed to be used, devastating 7.62 weapon if you can keep it on the bead with controlled bursts on full auto. Tough as hell and rarely fails and cheap as chips to produce.

The FN was semi.. correct me guys if I have that wrong, again 7.62 serious stopping power. Rare if ever you go semi I think. It was possible to overcome single shot on the SLR, a wee jimmy inserted in the right place would give you semi....not recommended on the range, it would get you in the ****e fairly quicky.

If it came to it now, I think I'd still lean towards the M4. As I lefty/righty I remember being so impressed on how easy it easy it was to cock it. Its a proven platform which has undergone many tweaks and alterations but still stands up, If I had a choice, the HK seem to have refined the M4 and the 416would take my fancy.

Slightly off topic, but I have to ask Manic, have you fondled the SCAR? and in particular the SCAR H? I'm fairly sure you've had a few down range with an AK at 7.62 Wondering if you'd played with the H and how you felt about it?

minidazzler

The only assault rifle I have ever fired is the AUG so I can't make a decision based on comparison, but based on what I have heard and reviews I think I would take a Sig 556 just for sheer all round goodness.


Hesbollah, Gentlemen.....yeah right. And the IRA are just a Boys Choir:D

Manic Moran

The FN was semi.. correct me guys if I have that wrong, again 7.62 serious stopping power. Rare if ever you go semi I think. It was possible to overcome single shot on the SLR, a wee jimmy inserted in the right place would give you semi....not recommended on the range, it would get you in the ****e fairly quicky.

FN was also select-fire, the British L1 was not. But it still doesn't fit the assault rifle category because of the cartridge size.

If I had a choice, the HK seem to have refined the M4 and the 416would take my fancy.

It's a little front-heavy for my taste. That's also my main gripe with the SIG-556 actually. That and the cocking handle needs to be replaced with a different one for ease of use with an optic on the rail. (Easy fix though, it's a five-second swapout. AUG has a similar problem, but the cocking handle is far tougher to change out)

Slightly off topic, but I have to ask Manic, have you fondled the SCAR? and in particular the SCAR H?

Can't say I have.

I'm fairly sure you've had a few down range with an AK at 7.62

Yes. I was expecting something ridiculous and uncontrollable from the reputation, but it really isn't. The short 7.62mm results in a very acceptable kick, it's quite a lot of fun to shoot, even if you can barely hit the broad side of a barn from the inside with it. Control ergonimics are horrible, though. I expect to be able to go from 'safe' to 'shoot' with simple movement of my thumb or finger. Not so with the AK's huge and mal-located selector. Sights are dodgy too, but that may be more fixable.

NTM

MetalDawg

Steyr A3 with underslung 203 launcher and 3-way safety catch!!!

McArmalite

MetalDawg wrote: »

Steyr A3 with underslung 203 launcher and 3-way safety catch!!!

Good choice of little add on, " underslung 203 launcher "

MetalDawg

McArmalite wrote: »

Good choice of little add on, " underslung 203 launcher "

......say hello to my little friend......

It wasn't me!

Anything with ambidextrous capability, good balance, good ergonomics, decent irons or optics, a nice trigger, accurate and reliable. After that, the name is immaterial to me.

iceage

Might have to adjust my choice(haven't voted yet)..had another look at the Tavor, hmmm its a bit special innit.

AbusesToilets

Can't look beyond the M4 myself. With recent developments with a short stroke piston instead of direct impingement(ie HK416) , the major flaw in it's design has been removed. Accurate, light and extremely customizable,it has better ergonomics than any other rifle on the list.

The SCAR is largely similar to the M$ in terms of it's ergonomics and general features. It's pretty nice, be interesting to gauge it's performance in the field.

McArmalite

Some of you fellas are like a chick pondering forever about what pair of shoes she'll buy !!! The enemy would have had you by the time you'd make up your mind what weapon you'd use !!!

concussion

In all fairness, what do expect with a 'What's your favourite [insert military tool]? question. I didn't realise the question was "What would be your assault rifle of choice? (If the enemy was 10 metres from your position)

Whichever is closest. If there's no ammo I'll bayonet the them or smash their face in with an entrenching tool. Do I have an E-tool or bayonet? It wasn't in the question. What's next, what would be your calibre of choice, 5.56, 7.62, 6.5, 8.58?

Manic Moran

McArmalite wrote: »

Some of you fellas are like a chick pondering forever about what pair of shoes she'll buy !!! The enemy would have had you by the time you'd make up your mind what weapon you'd use !!!

There are a lot of factors to consider, are there not?

The question is particularly difficult when one has not had exposure to all the various options. For example, how does one choose between the trigger feel of an AUG vs a Tavor if one has not played with both?

NTM

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

Some of you fellas are like a chick pondering forever about what pair of shoes she'll buy !!! The enemy would have had you by the time you'd make up your mind what weapon you'd use !!!

In fairness, it is a bit like asking the wine forum what their favourite wine is

"Cheeky little Red, good nose, nicely balanced texture with a fearsome kick"

gizmo555

I'd say the AK would get this lady's vote:

An Indian farmer’s daughter disarmed a terrorist leader who broke into her home, attacked him with an axe and shot him dead with his own gun.

Rukhsana Kausar, 21, was with her parents and brother in Jammu and Kashmir when three gunmen, believed to be Pakistani militants, forced their way in and demanded food and beds for the night . . .

His daughter was hiding under a bed when she heard him crying as the gunmen thrashed him with sticks. According to police, she ran towards her father’s attacker and struck him with an axe. As he collapsed, she snatched his AK47 and shot him dead . . .

This bit would seem to indicate she had no trouble with its ergonomics either:

Miss Kausar said she had never fired an assault rifle before but had seen it in films and could not stand by while her father was being hurt.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/farmers-daughter-disarms-terrorist-and-shoots-him-dead-with-ak47-1900311.html

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

I would have to pick the AK47, although the only weapon I have experienced from this group is the Styre aug1.

Would love to try some others...

Manic Moran

gizmo555 wrote: »

This bit would seem to indicate she had no trouble with its ergonomics either:

If she picked it up when it was in a condition to fire, then, no, I guess she wouldn't have.



There is no way of moving that selector without removing a hand from the rifle.

NTM

McArmalite

concussion wrote: »

In all fairness, what do expect with a 'What's your favourite [insert military tool]? question. I didn't realise the question was "What would be your assault rifle of choice? (If the enemy was 10 metres from your position)

Whichever is closest. If there's no ammo I'll bayonet the them or smash their face in with an entrenching tool. Do I have an E-tool or bayonet? It wasn't in the question. What's next, what would be your calibre of choice, 5.56, 7.62, 6.5, 8.58?

And maybe their are 100m or 1,000m or their is 5, 10 , 20, or 2,000 of the enemy and maybe lighting strikes or their's an earthquake. How long is a length of string ?

twinytwo

McArmalite wrote: »

Fair enough. I fired the FN in my days in the FCA and it is indeed a fine weapon. If their is enough posts mentioning a particular weapon such as the FN, Heckler & Koch MP5, FAMAS or whatever I'll edit the poll to include it.

if we are talking about assault rifles... why would we metion an mp5?

concussion

Excellent point that.

Manic Moran

twinytwo wrote: »

if we are talking about assault rifles... why would we metion an mp5?

If we are talking about assault rifles, why would we mention the FN-FAL?

NTM

iceage

Ok, OK!... Jeez I brought up the whole SLR thingy Fond memories.

gizmo555

Manic Moran wrote: »

If she picked it up when it was in a condition to fire, then, no, I guess she wouldn't have.

If it wasn't, judging by what she did with the axe she probably would have just stoved the guy's skull in with the butt :pac:

transylman

HK416 seems to be a well designed weapon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZpZryZEiY4

Why the preference for bullpups manic?

Manic Moran

Why the preference for bullpups manic?

Full-length barrels. I want a rifle, not a carbine.

NTM

Captain Chaos

Manic Moran wrote: »

G36 is a very nice rifle, and I found it surprisingly light. Would have preferred a longer barrel, though.

Was it a short G36 variant you tried out, C or K? The G36E or V as HK renamed it has an 18'' barrel, slightly shorter than a full 20'' 5.56 barrel but would it really make a noticeable difference.

Ulsteryank

I picked M16/M4, because that's what I'd be use to from being a Rifleman in the U.S Marines. It's lighter than the SAW&203, which is what we all wanted.

AK's are sweet for reasons mentioned, virtually no maintenance, but it has 150 meters less of an effective range than to an M16/4( Not like that's make much of a difference for some, but all to others with a scope)

diverdriver

Like the Indian girl, my choice would be the one nearest to hand.

Rukhsana Kausar, 21, was with her parents and brother in Jammu and Kashmir when three gunmen, believed to be Pakistani militants, forced their way in and demanded food and beds for the night . . .

Food and beds, what kind of terrorists are those? Besides haven't they heard of hotels...............Oh yes, now I remember.

Why am I not surprised at McArmalite's choice? The AK, any experience then Mc? :P I fired it and very nice it is too. But perhaps I would prefer something more modern, even the AK-74.

What about the H&K MP7 like the Garda uses. Yes I know it's really a machine pistole. I saw a couple in Tallaght outside the Shamrock Rover v Bohemian match the other night. Bit of overkill I thought. Were they expecting that much trouble?

pmg58

MP7 is a submachinegun, not an assault rifle.

Manic Moran

Ulsteryank wrote: »

I picked M16/M4, because that's what I'd be use to from being a Rifleman in the U.S Marines. It's lighter than the SAW&203, which is what we all wanted.

I can't say I've ever seen a SAW kitted out with an M203, but I'm open to correction.

Interestingly, the new SAR to replace the SAW in fire teams is going to be a box-magazine rifle, basically an M16 HBAR. I'm not sure what to make of that.

NTM

pmg58

seems like a strange choice, since the British Army found that they had to do pretty much the opposite.

AbusesToilets

Manic Moran wrote: »

Interestingly, the new SAR to replace the SAW in fire teams is going to be a box-magazine rifle, basically an M16 HBAR. I'm not sure what to make of that.

NTM

Terrible decision on their part, the Gen 5 Ultimax 100 is a far superior LMG. Easily the best one i've ever shot, to the point that i'd choose it over a M4 were it possible.

Manic Moran

The thinking is that the M249 is too bulky to be a true automatic rifle. You can't go room-clearing with the thing, and it does sortof slow down the rifle team a small amount.

On the other hand, when you need the firepower, magazines just won't come close.

NTM

OS119

Manic Moran wrote: »

The thinking is that the M249 is too bulky to be a true automatic rifle. You can't go room-clearing with the thing, and it does sortof slow down the rifle team a small amount.

On the other hand, when you need the firepower, magazines just won't come close.

NTM

TBH this is just daft, we went down this road with the L86 LSW, and it was a very public disaster (witness the MOD credit card taking a belting buying up every Minimi they could lay their hands on in the run-up to Iraq2). speed is great, right up until you meet someone with a belt-fed weapon, and your new found speed has taken you too far from your company/battalion level direct fire support...

Ulsteryank

Yea, you need the SAW in Fireteams to lay down suppressive fire when need be. For CQB, the squads AAGunner should just be on a need be basis as well.
Those fully automatic M4's a lot of our Recon guys got were pretty sweet.

McArmalite

Perestroika wrote: »

Would have to be the Avtomat Kalashnikova 47

I see you liked the AK47 Perestroika, could this be you by any chance ?

Manic Moran

So why do the AK-voters go with the -47 and not the AKM or AK-74?

NTM

Manic Moran

McArmalite wrote: »

I see you liked the AK47 Perestroika, could this be you by any chance ?

You want to give me a reason I shouldn't ban you for a personal attack? (And be quick about it, it's 22:30 here, I'm not staying up that long)

NTM

Manic Moran

No response (Not that one is required, the post was a banning offense on its own merits). 7-day suspension.

For public consumption, here is the meat of the notification.

Reason: Unacceptable post.

Pretty much speaks for itself. Don't go around equating posters with terrorists. Even if you or Perestroika were to happen to personally believe they're freedom fighters or whatever, the post would not have been acceptable to the forum at large by or about any other posters, and you are not exempt from the same rules on the basis of perception by third parties.

Additional. At the very best, the post was a joke in poor taste which reflects poorly upon the public perception of this forum and its members. For viewers who think I'm over-reactng, his is not the first time that McArmalite has come to Moderator attention. (The irony is that he's managed to screw up in a non-controversial thread he started). A third party has interceded on McArmalite's behalf, I have taken this into consideration. Hence the banning is a mere week. I shall not be so lenient in future. This goes for all users.

NTM

MR_BAB

mine is the M4 carbine with scope, and soud suppressor

concussion

Carbines aren't exactly the best choice for use a sniper weapons...