Poll: Majority of Voters Oppose Welfare Cuts

djpbarry

A SUBSTANTIAL majority of voters are opposed to reductions in welfare payments or the taxation of child benefit in the forthcoming budget, according to the latest Irish Times / TNS mrbi poll.

However, the poll also shows that voters strongly favour cuts in public spending rather than tax increases as the best way of dealing with the crisis in the public finances.

When asked if social welfare benefits should be cut in the budget, 75 per cent of voters said they should not, compared with 21 per cent who said they should.
...
In spite of the strong opposition to welfare cuts and the taxing of child benefit, 70 per cent of voters said the Government should put the emphasis on cuts in the budget.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0928/1224255368960.html

I find this quite surprising, but also a little confusing. The majority of voters want to see cuts in public spending, but no cuts in welfare? Doesn’t the former necessitate the latter? Surely any meaningful savings plan has to target both public sector pay and welfare?

optocynic

djpbarry wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0928/1224255368960.html

I find this quite surprising, but also a little confusing. The majority of voters want to see cuts in public spending, but no cuts in welfare? Doesn’t the former necessitate the latter? Surely any meaningful savings plan has to target both public sector pay and welfare?

The problem with these polls is they are too broad.
No one wants to see cuts in old age pensions and benefits... but most people want to see job seekers allowance cut, especially for the 'long-term' unemployed.
These polls tend to be push-polls too. Cornering people into giving PC answers to the questions. It is the Times after all... a fine newspaper, but a liberal paper also!

techdiver

djpbarry wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0928/1224255368960.html

I find this quite surprising, but also a little confusing. The majority of voters want to see cuts in public spending, but no cuts in welfare? Doesn’t the former necessitate the latter? Surely any meaningful savings plan has to target both public sector pay and welfare?

It is quite a common theme across the country. Everyone agrees that we need to cut somewhere, but when pressed where these cuts are to be made the answers are often slow in coming. The first natural reaction is protect their own corner and oppose any cuts that would directly effect themselves and them go down the PC route of opposing any cuts on the "vulnerable".

Truth being told unless we make substantial cuts, the IMF won't be too soft when it comes to cuts across the board, so people need to wake up and realise, that a modest cut now is much more desirable than a slash and burn policy that the IMF will bring.

Euro_Kraut

djpbarry wrote: »

I find this quite surprising, but also a little confusing. The majority of voters want to see cuts in public spending, but no cuts in welfare? Doesn’t the former necessitate the latter? Surely any meaningful savings plan has to target both public sector pay and welfare?

That struck me too when reading the article. People effectively did not want to reduce welfare or have taxes increased. It is symptom of living through an age when lower taxes and higher spending were possible. It will take some time for people to adjust.

Long Onion

It's always the same, people agree that we should have better services but will not agree to higher taxation to fund it. The problem is that the notion of the social contract is now dead. People are no longer willing to give up a portion of their pie as they don't believe that it will actually get to where they want to see it go.

Such polls are useless and only tell us what we already know.

New poll shows that an overwhelming majority of Irish people believe in freedom of expression, yet the majority are also opposed to scrapping age ratings on movies - go figure.

It's all a question of degree

murphaph

optocynic wrote: »

The problem with these polls is they are too broad.
No one wants to see cuts in old age pensions and benefits... but most people want to see job seekers allowance cut, especially for the 'long-term' unemployed.
These polls tend to be push-polls too. Cornering people into giving PC answers to the questions. It is the Times after all... a fine newspaper, but a liberal paper also!

Indeed, but in reality the old age pension should be cut along with all welfare payments as the cost of living is falling (and in any case, the public purse can't afford it). I'd argue that there is a case to means test the old age pension too-why should people who don't need it, get it? (my own mother would probably lose out on that score as she is in receipt of the contributory pension but is still in full time employment and so doesn't actually need it (or the other benefits she gets just for being 65/6).

I suggest it's also time to raise the retirement age again anyway.

There can be no 'sacred cows' or those who are affected by the reforms will be bitter.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

turgon

A quite comic side of this debate is when you see posters such as "keep your hand off our child benefit." Firstly, as donegalfella generically mentioned, this child benefit only came to such a huge level during the economic boom. In effect the unpopularity Fianna Fail are feeling now is partly because they made such a huge attempt at "purchasing" their way into Government in 2002 and 2007. In fact, if one examines the statistics you will see that social welfare in general rises double the year before the election than any other year. If this isnt the modern 21st centuary method of vote buying, that I like to style vote purchasing, then I dont know what is.

Secondly, the "our" is highly deceptive. It gives the impression that those in receipt of child benefit worked hard for that money. But you see they didnt. Someone else worked hard so the government could tax them to then pass on said money to child benefit recipients. A second statistic that Im sure is true is that if we erased all social welfare we could also just about erase income tax. So the terming of social welfare "wealth re-distribution" is surprisingly accurate.

irish_bob

djpbarry wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0928/1224255368960.html

I find this quite surprising, but also a little confusing. The majority of voters want to see cuts in public spending, but no cuts in welfare? Doesn’t the former necessitate the latter? Surely any meaningful savings plan has to target both public sector pay and welfare?

we irish are a people who have no problems with double standards , thier is a poster on politics .ie named euro boy who ( although opposed to the nanny state himself ) believes we simply do not pay enough tax to the state in this country considering how much we take and expect back from it

i myself oppose the nanny state but i fully agree with him

irish_bob

optocynic wrote: »

The problem with these polls is they are too broad.
No one wants to see cuts in old age pensions and benefits... but most people want to see job seekers allowance cut, especially for the 'long-term' unemployed.
These polls tend to be push-polls too. Cornering people into giving PC answers to the questions. It is the Times after all... a fine newspaper, but a liberal paper also!

i want to see cuts to the old age pension , the elderly in this country are pampered beyond belief , the marches we saw last year were a combination of wealthy old people who didnt want to forego a section of thier handouts and the children of theese wealth seniors who didnt want to see thier inherritence spent on pills and doctor bills , its a scandal that a retired superintendant garda with a pension of over 600 a week can visit his GP for free yet a struggling couple in thier thirties have to fork out 50 quid so thier young kids can visit the doctor

jenzz

I simply say cut the waste - The time wasted, the resources, the energy, the money, the gross mis management of DFSA..........in order for people to get a social welfare payment or a HSE payment you need to go to 3 different departments all under the 1 banner of the DFSA. You need a form stamped by one department to queue at another dept for them to accept it to issue you with a receipt to bring back to the original department to prove you applied. In this day & age & the millions wasted on PC's by the government there are much more efficient ways to communicate especially since all the departments are under the same banner. It has taken 2 weeks of flat out chasing & queuing to get an application accepted. I have queued for 9 hours in total at my local SW office to get forms stamped, signed, accepted in order to get an application for lone parents just accepted to prove to the CWO that it is applied for. Each department now has 1 original each of about 9 different documents. All possibly for another department to push ... or to end up being binned.....
Such a waste for all involved & such a waste on resources. It is no wonder " dole" queues are miles long when people like me are taking up a space in them unnecessarily just to do the above ordeal of forms.

I feel there is always an easy target like cut SW payments or child benefit. Some people class everyone on a benefit as a sponger or a waster. I have worked & paid my due since I was 16. I dont want to be on benefits but I have no choice.

Does anyone honestly think I would have done all of that if I wasnt so desperate for the €20 extra I may get a week. I had to put feeding children before pride & do this. A very kind gentleman worker in the Bray office took pity on me yesterday - as he has seen me every second day queuing.. He took me aside out of the queue, demanded all my paperwork, told me to sit with the kids & came back with everything sorted for me. He asked me how long I have been queuing for in total.I explained my only goal is to be able to apply for rent supplement but that I need to apply for x y & z before I can do this. He apologised for such a sham of a system & told me to ask for him in future.

I honestly do not blame the public sector workers , I blame the system & such a waste of resources that goes on - cut all this rubbish out. Cutting wages will in turn create demotivation - just cut the red tape & the rubbish they have to tell you to cover up such a disasterous system. Our nurses , muniteoirs work so hard. Just cut the waste !

muppetkiller

I'd love to know who actually does these polls ?
I mean do they randomly speak to people in Grafton street at 3pm in the day while the rest of us are at work ?

jenzz

irish_bob wrote: »

i want to see cuts to the old age pension , the elderly in this country are pampered beyond belief , the marches we saw last year were a combination of wealthy old people who didnt want to forego a section of thier handouts and the children of theese wealth seniors who didnt want to see thier inherritence spent on pills and doctor bills , its a scandal that a retired superintendant garda with a pension of over 600 a week can visit his GP for free yet a struggling couple in thier thirties have to fork out 50 quid so thier young kids can visit the doctor

I do believe this should be means tested. My father lost his private pension fund - This year he received €187 in total . So the €200 & odd he gets a week - Thats it thats all he has. For a 74 year old gentleman who retired only 2 years ago who has worked since he was 14 does he not deserve this ?
He didnt cause the banks to lose his money, he didnt steal millions, he has never broken the law in his life & now he is struggling. He was misadvised by the banks, he was uneducated & niave but should he be punished because our gem of a goverment need to dig them out of a monster hole lined with secrecy & lies in which every one of them have contributed to & are involved in this banks crisis.
Will Daddy & all our other elders get bailed out when his pension is cut by €10 - I think not.

irish_bob

jenzz wrote: »

I do believe this should be means tested. My father lost his private pension fund - This year he received €187 in total . So the €200 & odd he gets a week - Thats it thats all he has. For a 74 year old gentleman who retired only 2 years ago who has worked since he was 14 does he not deserve this ?
He didnt cause the banks to lose his money, he didnt steal millions, he has never broken the law in his life & now he is struggling. He was misadvised by the banks, he was uneducated & niave but should he be punished because our gem of a goverment need to dig them out of a monster hole lined with secrecy & lies in which every one of them have contributed to & are involved in this banks crisis.
Will Daddy & all our other elders get bailed out when his pension is cut by €10 - I think not.

why would someone with zero debt , no kids to look after , free electricity , free travel , be struggling , most pensioners recieve 232 euro a week of a state pension , thats the minumum , add in all the freebies and you will excuse me if i call porkys on claims of struggle , as for not causing a mess , whats that got to do with anything

djpbarry

jenzz wrote: »

I explained my only goal is to be able to apply for rent supplement but that I need to apply for x y & z before I can do this. He apologised for such a sham of a system & told me to ask for him in future.

With all due respect, welfare is not supposed to be easy to obtain – one has to demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt what one is entitled to. That’s not to say that inefficiency doesn’t exist, but I’m not sure how you would like to see the system changed? Take your example of rent supplement; how should it be determined whether or not someone is entitled to this benefit?

jenzz

irish_bob wrote: »

why would someone with zero debt , no kids to look after , free electricity , free travel , be struggling , most pensioners recieve 232 euro a week of a state pension , thats the minumum , add in all the freebies and you will excuse me if i call porkys on claims of struggle , as for not causing a mess , whats that got to do with anything

Well I wish you well on your OAP when your time comes,,

I dont lie - he is struggling, Why should it be reduced for them just because those fat cats have made a balls of our economy & need to save money somewhere.. As for not causing a mess has plenty to do with it - He & eveyone else didnt cause it so dont penalise us.

techdiver

jenzz wrote: »

As for not causing a mess has plenty to do with it - He & eveyone else didnt cause it so dont penalise us.

This is irrelevant in the current climate and the more we harp on about his line the more trouble we are in. Every vested interest group states that "We didn't cause this mess, so don't penalise us". Unfortunately fairness does not come into it when we are in the dire financial situation that we find ourselves. If the country cannot cut it's cloth we will face national bankruptcy and when that happens the IMF will roll into town and believe me when that happens the small cuts being touted at the moment will seem like a hell of a good deal in comparison to what the IMF will demand.

Tipp Man

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Top Post

Sand

People are pretty much still in denial - the government policy so far has been too push off the day of reckoning as far as they can. Its quite difficult to grasp in real terms how badly the government has let spending get out of control.

Even the TDs are in denial - Fianna Fail backbenchers are telling Cowen that they will support cuts, but only cuts that are painless, that dont affect the "vulnerable" ( a broad and increasingly subsection of society these days). Lenihan and Cowen must despair of explaining the reality that the cuts required are so great that they will not only be painful, but excruciating and that the vulnerable will be hit full on, as the greatest bloating of the public spending over the past few years was on the social welfare.

I don't know what its going to take to get this country to face up to reality: The last time there was a situation similar to this in the 1980s, the country was literally on its knees before some of the more realistic TDs banded together to get the necessary cost cutting done. Im hoping that we wont have to face a decade of economic failure before the necessary budget discipline is induced - actually, thats probably impossible: The country will be bankrupt long before that on the present course.