Matchplay : Play the course or play your opponent?

SuprSi

I've got my first matchplay game in around a year coming up tomorrow (I know there are some other people involved in matchplay this weekend too) at Castleknock GC. I haven't played there before, but I'm hitting the ball pretty well. I'm curious to know what strategy people use when playing singles matchplay, or whether you use any at all?

Personally, I always play the course (my own game) unless it's hugely obvious that I can take the score by playing it safe. This sometimes results in me cocking it up though as I tend not to concentrate so much, or perhaps too much!

f22

I've played alot of matchplay over the years and my advise is always play the man. Matchplay is a hole by hole game and sometimes it can be the better choice to take a half if the percentages lie with you.

At the end of the day, gross score is irrelevant, you just need to play to your strengths, take calculated risks when they present themselves and never get ahead of yourself, never let your head drop.

Good luck.

thegen

Matchplay = Play Opponent. You are not trying to score your best score so risk taking when you can win it with one more shot is foolish. Play your opponent and best of luck.
Are you not playing in the Presidents tomorrow then?

madds

Agree with f22. You're playing the man here not the course. Just took a double on a hole? Forget it, you've only lost one hole, and no one will ask you your gross score afterwards. Play the percentages. If you're hitting the fairway more often than your opponent, the odds are that you should win. So try and get the honour early on, then keep it. If you keep splitting the fairway from the tee, the pressure will be on your opponent.

Get to the course early. Warm up well so that you're in the groove come the 1st tee and not the 3rd. If you can grab the first couple of holes it normally sets the tone for the match.

ozymandias10

play the man always...if you have two for it take two.......keep it in play force him to make the error ..played a huge amount of it especially interclub...if you are 20 over but win the match who cares...you don;t need to chase birdies unless your opponent is shooting the lights out......never give away a hole cheaply....force him to win it

SuprSi

thegen wrote: »

Matchplay = Play Opponent. You are not trying to score your best score so risk taking when you can win it with one more shot is foolish. Play your opponent and best of luck.
Are you not playing in the Presidents tomorrow then?

I was going to and considering the condition of the course I'm disappointed I'm not, but tomorrow is the last day I can play this match. I'm heading up this evening for a few holes though :pac:

GreeBo

ozymandias10 wrote: »

play the man always...if you have two for it take two.......

The only caveat I would make here is that I do not think you should change your putting style during a match.
If you are typically a putter who goes for everything then I would continue to do that during the match, even if you have 2 for it. Its happened many a time before when someone 3 putts because they had 2 for it

ozymandias10

GreeBo wrote: »

The only caveat I would make here is that I do not think you should change your putting style during a match.
If you are typically a putter who goes for everything then I would continue to do that during the match, even if you have 2 for it. Its happened many a time before when someone 3 putts because they had 2 for it

I agree greebo...what I meant is don't think that you have to make it and race it.......play your game but you play the percentages..agree with you where people get ultra cautious and that is even worse than gung ho

Daithio9

It's a combination of both that makes a good match play player, but if you held a gun to my head to make a choice then I'd have to say play the course i.e. play your own game and just be aware of where you opponent is at at all times.

soundsham

play the man if he has a long putt for a 7
I'd quite happily 3 stab for a 6

GreeBo

Daithio9 wrote: »

It's a combination of both that makes a good match play player, but if you held a gun to my head to make a choice then I'd have to say play the course i.e. play your own game and just be aware of where you opponent is at at all times.

But why are you playing the course at all?
The course can never beat you in matchplay. You can beat hell out of the course and still lose the match.
The only think that matters in a match is having a score 1 shot lower than your opponents on each hole. What those scores are is totally irrelevant.

Daithio9

GreeBo wrote: »

But why are you playing the course at all?
The course can never beat you in matchplay. You can beat hell out of the course and still lose the match.
The only think that matters in a match is having a score 1 shot lower than your opponents on each hole. What those scores are is totally irrelevant.

Your missing the point.

soundsham

Daithio9 wrote: »

Your missing the point.

great post!!

GreeBo

Daithio9 wrote: »

Your missing the point.

You're missing an answer!

Swinging Looney

I find this whole thread very interesting!

If I am playing a high handicapper (say 15 or more) I'll always play the course. I find a comfortable par puts the other guy under more pressure if he is someone who makes more bogeys than pars on an average round. A par 4 where you play the perecentage shot for your second an leave yourself a comfortable par can make the other guy think that he needs to make a par to win. For most higher handicap golfers the extra pressure will ensure they make a 6 at best.

If he is a lower handicap (or maybe closer to your own handicap is a better choice of words) I will keep a much closer eye on where he is, how he is lying and what line he has, etc, etc. If I think I can, I'll try to put him under more pressure by taking on a more agressive shot maybe, but never ever take on something you are unlikely to make.

I must say too many goflers (including myself) have lost matches by taking on shots they more often than not will almost never make in a vain attempt to "play the opponent". Like say on a par 5 with water short of the green, your opponent is on the green in two. You decide you have no choice but to go for it yourself so you take on a stupid carry that you never would try under any other circumstances and plop it in the water. Now your playing 4 from 30 yards, most likely will make a 6 and the pressure is off the other guy. He can three putt for half and suffer no real damage. If you lay up like you normally would, knock your third on the green, the other guy is now thinking "I have to make this eagle putt to be sure of the hole" or maybe "I can't three putt whatever I do". You have actually put him under much greater pressure by playing the course rather than the opponent. If you knock your 3rd shot close, there is every chance he will try too hard for his eagle and end up 3 putting under pressure. Won hole for you by playing the course.

Remember, even the pros don't make more than half their putts from outside 6 feet so never over estimate the other guys ability to make birdie just because he is on the green. He has to be real close for you to take on a shot that is higher risk than you normally expose yourself to.

Also, never, ever give up on a hole until it is absolutley obvious that you have lost it. Nothing is more frustrating for an opponent than someone who doesn't know when they are dead. Other guy is on the fairway. You hit your tee shot out of bounds. Play three off the tee short of the other guys ball. (I have seen many people mentally give up at this stage) You hit your fourth on the green. Other guy now realises that you have an outside chance of making a 5. He better be sure of his par at least. Extra pressure makes him hit his second into the greenside bunker. He makes 6 after two putts and feels robbed after a silly half. You feel happy after a half you thought you'd never make. Totally different atmosphere on the next tee. Under similar circumstances opponents have looked at me and said "I let you away with that didn't I?" and I've thought to myself "No, I took it from you!!".

The real answer to the OP's question is somewhere in between the twoo possibilities. Don't blindly play your opponent constantly as the holes on the course which you find tough enough already will give you no chance. By pklaying for safe scores (nett pars or bogeys) you are forcing your opponent to play well to beat you. If you find yourself in a position to be agressive that you feel confortable with it, go for the birdie. But, you generally don't need nett birdies or better to win holes. On the other hand, if he hits it out of bounds off the tee, make sure you keep it in play at all costs, bearing in mind that he could still make a miraculous bogey, so don't play yourself out of a reasonable score. That is playing the opponent. Yet, always leave yourself shots you are most comforatble sith. That is playing the course....

Daithio9

Swinging Looney wrote: »

I find this whole thread very interesting!

If I am playing a high handicapper (say 15 or more) I'll always play the course. I find a comfortable par puts the other guy under more pressure if he is someone who makes more bogeys than pars on an average round. A par 4 where you play the perecentage shot for your second an leave yourself a comfortable par can make the other guy think that he needs to make a par to win. For most higher handicap golfers the extra pressure will ensure they make a 6 at best.

If he is a lower handicap (or maybe closer to your own handicap is a better choice of words) I will keep a much closer eye on where he is, how he is lying and what line he has, etc, etc. If I think I can, I'll try to put him under more pressure by taking on a more agressive shot maybe, but never ever take on something you are unlikely to make.

I must say too many goflers (including myself) have lost matches by taking on shots they more often than not will almost never make in a vain attempt to "play the opponent". Like say on a par 5 with water short of the green, your opponent is on the green in two. You decide you have no choice but to go for it yourself so you take on a stupid carry that you never would try under any other circumstances and plop it in the water. Now your playing 4 from 30 yards, most likely will make a 6 and the pressure is off the other guy. He can three putt for half and suffer no real damage. If you lay up like you normally would, knock your third on the green, the other guy is now thinking "I have to make this eagle putt to be sure of the hole" or maybe "I can't three putt whatever I do". You have actually put him under much greater pressure by playing the course rather than the opponent. If you knock your 3rd shot close, there is every chance he will try too hard for his eagle and end up 3 putting under pressure. Won hole for you by playing the course.

Remember, even the pros don't make more than half their putts from outside 6 feet so never over estimate the other guys ability to make birdie just because he is on the green. He has to be real close for you to take on a shot that is higher risk than you normally expose yourself to.

Also, never, ever give up on a hole until it is absolutley obvious that you have lost it. Nothing is more frustrating for an opponent than someone who doesn't know when they are dead. Other guy is on the fairway. You hit your tee shot out of bounds. Play three off the tee short of the other guys ball. (I have seen many people mentally give up at this stage) You hit your fourth on the green. Other guy now realises that you have an outside chance of making a 5. He better be sure of his par at least. Extra pressure makes him hit his second into the greenside bunker. He makes 6 after two putts and feels robbed after a silly half. You feel happy after a half you thought you'd never make. Totally different atmosphere on the next tee. Under similar circumstances opponents have looked at me and said "I let you away with that didn't I?" and I've thought to myself "No, I took it from you!!".

The real answer to the OP's question is somewhere in between the twoo possibilities. Don't blindly play your opponent constantly as the holes on the course which you find tough enough already will give you no chance. By pklaying for safe scores (nett pars or bogeys) you are forcing your opponent to play well to beat you. If you find yourself in a position to be agressive that you feel confortable with it, go for the birdie. But, you generally don't need nett birdies or better to win holes. On the other hand, if he hits it out of bounds off the tee, make sure you keep it in play at all costs, bearing in mind that he could still make a miraculous bogey, so don't play yourself out of a reasonable score. That is playing the opponent. Yet, always leave yourself shots you are most comforatble sith. That is playing the course....

Thank you for taking the time to spell it out in detail for those of us who think matchplay is exclusively about playing the man.
Just to add to the above playing the course concentrates the mind and keeps you playing your normal game, if you focus solely on playing your opponent then you can get out of your comfort zone and mistakes you wouldn't ordinarily make can and almost certainly will happen as it's not how you are used to playing every week in your club's weekend competitions.

PhilipMarlowe

Swinging Looney wrote: »

...Other guy now realises that you have an outside chance of making a 5. He better be sure of his par at least. Extra pressure makes him hit his second into the greenside bunker. He makes 6 after two putts and feels robbed after a silly half.

Wouldn't like you to be marking my card

GreeBo

Just wanted to clarify something. Playing the man does not mean that you try to hit the same shots that he hits.
e.g If he is on par 5 in 2 that doesnt mean that you need to go for your second also. You just need to be trying to at worst match his nett score. If you normally play that par 5 for a pitch and putt birdie then go ahead and continue to do that despite your opponents position. (Obviously if he has nailed it and has a tap in eagle then your birdie is worth zilch)
Its pretty rare (at least at my level) that someone wins a hole with an eagle so I think thats a fringe (har har!) case.

If he is on in 2 and you are still 200yrds away in 2 then obviously you need to go for it, even if its not your normal shot/comfort zone.

Everything you do in a match needs to be in an attempt to shoot at worst no worse than your opponent on each hole. Naturally in a strokes game you are trying to shoot your best score on each hole, but you will never get the freedom of "well I might as well lose with an 8 as a 5" that you get in a match. If you never play the man then I dont think you are giving yourself the best chance to win.

Swinging Looney wrote:

If I am playing a high handicapper (say 15 or more) I'll always play the course. I find a comfortable par puts the other guy under more pressure if he is someone who makes more bogeys than pars on an average round.

Sorry but this makes no sense to me! If he is off 15 then he normally shoots 15 bogeys and 3 pars per round i.e more bogeys than pars. Chances are that if he does that in a match he will beat you. Its going to be far easier for him to make a bogey than it is for you to make a par or put it another way, he is probably going to have more pars than you have bogeys. Sure he will throw in an 8 or so but that doesnt mean squat in a match.

ankles

I have an interesting take on this. We had our matchplay comp this year but in order to ensure that all matches were played we had the option of playing the matches as part of our regular stableford outings. Effectively you were playing in both comps. Points were used to determine who won the hole. Most players, especially the losers, said this totally put them off. They found a big difference between playing the man and the course. I won one round like tis but only because we were both out of the running for the outing fairly early so I concentrated on the man. I played all the rest of the matches as separate games. Sure noticed the difference, much more focused on the match. I agree also that there are times you play the course, for example when your opponent is OOB off the drive. And doubly agree that you get your opponent to the green. That's where matchplay is won and lost. I had an opponent miss two putts of about a foot. Never give up until he is on the green, and you get there too,

PhilipMarlowe

Trying to play matchplay and singles together is a royal pain in the a**e (as well as not being allowed under the rules of golf).

GreeBo

ankles wrote: »

I agree also that there are times you play the course, for example when your opponent is OOB off the drive.

I guess my point is that in this scenario you are still playing the opponent. You are still only trying to be 1 shot better than he is, if he is looking like shooting a 10 you would be crazy to still try for a par IMO. Play for a simple bogey, even though you probably wouldnt do this in a strokes round.

Swinging Looney

Licksy wrote: »

Wouldn't like you to be marking my card

Doh! I meant three putts!!! No wonder I won my last match! :rolleyes:

Swinging Looney

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry but this makes no sense to me! If he is off 15 then he normally shoots 15 bogeys and 3 pars per round i.e more bogeys than pars. Chances are that if he does that in a match he will beat you. Its going to be far easier for him to make a bogey than it is for you to make a par or put it another way, he is probably going to have more pars than you have bogeys. Sure he will throw in an 8 or so but that doesnt mean squat in a match.

I don't agree at all. For two reasons. Firstly, the average 15 handicapper does not make 15 bogeys and 3 pars per round. It's more like 8 pars, 6 bogeys, three double bogeys and a triple bogey. They can get it together the odd time and get a decent run of holes going, but sooner or later they hit a bad shot and can't get over it mentally and so they add another bad shot to the first one and before you know it there's your first double bogey of the day on the card. A low handicap golfer is more likely to be able to keep up with you even after they hit a poor shot.

I have always found that by playing safe steady golf (playing the course really) I can allow a higher handicap golfer to put themselves under pressure and play their way out of the match. If needed, such as if they are playing consistently well or better than their handicap I will try to pounce or put on extra pressure when the opportunity arises. But for the average guy off more than 15 or 16, playing steady is more than enough, because the first bad shot they hit, they start to think "Jaysus, yer man is steady as she goes, if I don't hit a cracker here I'll never make me nett par and I'll lose the hole for sure." So, they proceed to take on more than they can handle and suddenly I've got the upper hand without even thinking about it.

High handciap players tend to generate their own pressure, low handicap players tend to need pressure to be applied.

It's not all about the golf. Sometimes it's about who is more likely to mismanage and miscalculate. If you're off 15, then almost by definition, you're more likely to mismanage your game than someone off 4.

soundsham

ankles wrote: »

I have an interesting take on this. We had our matchplay comp this year but in order to ensure that all matches were played we had the option of playing the matches as part of our regular stableford outings. Effectively you were playing in both comps. Points were used to determine who won the hole. Most players, especially the losers, said this totally put them off. They found a big difference between playing the man and the course. I won one round like tis but only because we were both out of the running for the outing fairly early so I concentrated on the man. I played all the rest of the matches as separate games. Sure noticed the difference, much more focused on the match. I agree also that there are times you play the course, for example when your opponent is OOB off the drive. And doubly agree that you get your opponent to the green. That's where matchplay is won and lost. I had an opponent miss two putts of about a foot. Never give up until he is on the green, and you get there too,

why did ye call it matchplay ?
when it wasn't......shots are to given on holes of lowest index
don't know what ye were at....
daft as a brush imo

soundsham

dougherty turns in 34 -2 today and he's 5 down........playin' the course is a non runner

GreeBo

Swinging Looney wrote: »

If you're off 15, then almost by definition, you're more likely to mismanage your game than someone off 4.

And in recognition of that fact you have 11 more shots than someone playing off 4! The guy off 15 has to just play 5 percent better than normal and he is -3 for the round. You have to play 75% better than normal to beat him, Id want to be pretty sure that I was watching his scores and trying to beat him early on, in case he goes mental on the last 8 and plays to level, which by your own admission he could do.

Swinging Looney

GreeBo wrote: »

And in recognition of that fact you have 11 more shots than someone playing off 4! The guy off 15 has to just play 5 percent better than normal and he is -3 for the round. You have to play 75% better than normal to beat him, Id want to be pretty sure that I was watching his scores and trying to beat him early on, in case he goes mental on the last 8 and plays to level, which by your own admission he could do.

Perhaps we will simply agree to disagree. I don't buy the % argument for Mathcplay. All because when the pressure is on the higher handicap player will always have more difficulty staying focused and pulling off tough shots than the lower handicap guy. That's what makes Matchplay different from Strokeplay. You're summary above would be more of a general Strokeplay synopsis in my view. But you neglect the fact that higher handicap players have a much larger variance in the scores they post than lower players.

A low handicap player stays close to his handicap almost all of the time. A higher handicap player generally has lots of rounds well above his handicap with the odd round or two say 5 or 6 shots better, which dramatically correct his handicap and make it even less likely for him to do it again. He may win a match that he plays on one of those good days, but it is much less likely to happen than for the guy off 4 to stay within a couple of shots of 76.

Put another way, if the 5% vs 75% thing were true, the guy off 15 would be 15 times more likely to shoot 69 nett than the guy off 4. In reality they probably play better than their handicap with about the same frequency. The difference is that when they don't and there both having a bad day, the guy off 15 is much further from his handicap than the guy off 4. Under those circumstances, the guy off 4 will likely win every time.

Consitsency is the key. If the guy off 15 is consistent and always shoots about the same score (like so many older guys we all know who will never get any better but probably won't get any worse either!) he has a great chance of winning at matchplay. But for the average Joe, high handicappers have high handicaps because they are not consistent.

How many higher number guys (including me when I was off 15 or 16) had a good round going only to go 6, 6, 9, 7 on the last four holes because the pressure got to them and they started thinking about their score. Or were 4 Up with five to play and lost anyway. The lower handicap guy, if the nerves do get him is more likely to go 5, 5, 5, 5. In Mathcplay he'll probably manage a halved hole or two to see him through.

Or am I just completely off target with all this!!

GreeBo

Swinging Looney wrote: »

Or am I just completely off target with all this!!

Yes

I guess it depends on the type of higher handicap we are talking about. I think there are two distinct categories of (for arguments sake) 15 handicappers.

The guy who is pretty consistent, shooting pars and bogeys with the odd birdie and double and the the guy who is allover the place, 7,3,6,4,8 etc

The first guy is very hard to beat in a match, the second guy is pretty easy.
IMO the first guy isnt going to crumble under pressure as he knows that he can play for bogeys and will get them or even a par and that this is enough with his shots to win. The 2nd guy hasnt really learned how to play golf to his handicap and will try to go for pars all the time, sometimes getting them, often not saving double. This is the guy who has three 0.1s and then a -3 each month to stay off 15. When I was at this level my scores where within my bufferzone 90% of the time. Its very hard to beat someone who plays to their handicap most of the time AND has the shots. This is where I see the % factor coming into play.

For the last 10 years I was the first guy, hard to beat and beat plenty of low handicappers, yeah the second guy will have his good days, but he looses far more than he wins.

Swinging Looney

GreeBo wrote: »

Yes

I guess it depends on the type of higher handicap we are talking about. I think there are two distinct categories...

D'oh! I'm just never right! :rolleyes:

I suppose you have a point really. Perhaps I have just had more experience of the second type of high handicapper.