Ultra Street Fighter 4 Discussion Thread

ogiekeaney

put these iterations in the same game:

ae: makoto,yun, yang,seth,c viper,fei,sagat,ken, dj, ,chun li, ibuki,akuma,adon,vega

ssf4: balrog,guile, m bison, cammy,rufus,abel, rose,zangief,fuerte,

sf4: ryu,gen

and buff the rest

buff: juri, sim,blanka, t hawk, e ryu,oni,hakan,gouken, guy, cody,dudely,sakura,dan

Ramza

I agree with Misty, I definitely think the twins are excellent characters but I don't think they are OP. They're rushdown characters so they will always build meter fast. That's not to say they don't build it a bit too quick. A Yun/Yang doing his job will always have more meter than you. His CMD grab is slow. It's 7 frames and 5 for ex. Same as Makoto (according to frame data). It's tough to use it right too. And (cue crucifixion) so are dive kicks. Esp Yun's since the hitstun isn't great on them compared to Yang. You have to know what you are doing so I want to stamp out the "braindead" aspect of it all

People need to understand based on their design, that's how they play. Nothing is going to change if they nerf meter building a little or reduce dmg output. Guile's been a turtle since SF2. That's who he is. They're still going to hard to deal with. You can't FADC with them which is a bitch. And you need to be constantly on the offensive. Their defense is shockingly bad, but you know this. I'm not defending them at all but just my two cents on it. Fighting them is really tough, I will not deny that, they are just oriented that way

UberPrinny_Baal

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Aj wants Deejay nerfed because my Deejay causes him huge difficulty since AE came out.

I was humourously expressing my surprise that anyone could find Deejay a beast, especially a solid Ryu like AJ.

I would like to learn your ways Doom.

Jun_DP101

The Hound wrote: »

But for me its still Vanilla>AE>Super

You would say that

Azza

Hound wrote:

They didnt need to touch Ryus low forward.
They could have left tkcs in ae but the other cammy nerfs would or maybe have made her fine(sorry Chris).
Bison with anti fireball ultra is a joke, hate that s##t. Everyone has anti fireball something
The Nerf to Giefs green hand tipped it all off.
Guile got it bad too. Nerf to ultra is wtf & thats just to point out a small handful of useless nerfs.

Agree with you on that nerf for Ryu.
TKCS needed to go.
LOL at the Bison complaint.
Giefs got better in AE (might be more to do with getting 2 good match up and other characters getting nerfed) jab.spd is just obscene.
Guile got it too bad but the ultra 2 needed a nerf. It was too good in a fireball war.

Doctor Doom wrote:

Alot of characters received what a lot of people consider stupid or unnecessary nerfs. Guile got 23 nerfs in it. 23!

Ryu got nerfed. There's no way Super Ryu is OP.

Honda got hugely nerfed, and blanka's balls got nerfed pretty bad too. Gief's knockdown on green hands got removed, removing alot of his wake up game.

Guile got 23 nerfs in AE?

All i heard was.
His 3 normal flash kicks got nerfed.
Less damage on u2.
More start up on u2.
Less meter build off sonic boom.
Counterhit on recovery of sonic boom.
Backfist damage nerf.
Air throw start up increase.
What else he get?

Again agree with on the Ryu nerf.
Honda escaped almost untouched from vanilla. He deserved everything he got in AE.
I'm not sure about Blanka balls. I thought everyone could punish it on block already. Infairness everyone should be able to punish it on block. Its fast and difficult to block. Was only the medium and hard version that got the nerf. Probably help balance the Zangief match up a little.
Zangief still has his wake up game. Just gets less opportunities to use it. He's got a new less effective mix up (probably better for the blanka match up) and a better mix up against corner trapped opponents. Jab SPD is stupid good.

ogiekeaney wrote:

put these iterations in the same game:

ae: makoto,yun, yang,seth,c viper,fei,sagat,ken, dj, ,chun li, ibuki,akuma,adon,vega

ssf4: balrog,guile, m bison, cammy,rufus,abel, rose,zangief,fuerte,

sf4: ryu,gen

and buff the rest

buff: juri, sim,blanka, t hawk, e ryu,oni,hakan,gouken, guy, cody,dudely,sakura,dan

SF4 Ryu would be S tier. Damage would be too good, trade ultra and super trap. SF4 Gen I don't mind but his ex.wall dive would have to loose the invincibility it had.

SSF IV Cammy's TCKS can rot in hell. Rose U2 is retarded. Abels U2 needs to be what its like in AE.

AE Makoto and Fei long need slight damage reductions. Hitboxes on the twins must be looked at and few other tweakes. Akuma needs recovery on whiff palm and less frame advantage off s.hk. His teleport needs nerfing too.

Sakura does not need buffs. She's top 10 in AE.

D4RK ONION

TL;DR "Everyone needs more nerfs, but Bison is fine"

Azza

Shouldn't you be working on that sig for me?

Doctor DooM

You're correct. I don't know where I got that figure from.


It feels like he's had 23 nerfs

Neeknak

Rose's U2 should never have been touched. Bugs the **** out of me the amount of complaining that was done about it. Once, maybe twice a round it meant you couldn't jump all over her for free. It had low damage and was only accessible after catching a beating. I could understand people's gripes if she was overpowered in every way but jesus. It was our only reliable reversal on wake up and we had to get the **** beaten out of us in order to use it once. EX soul throw gets stuffed by almost everything in the game. EX soul spiral can be stuffed by almost everything in the game or can be thrown. If there was one character that needed the opposite of what they got it was Rose.

Alas, there's no point in me crying over spilt milk. I just picked up a couple more characters on the side.

Also they took the piss with Guile.

Kirby

Azza wrote: »

Akuma's teleport needs nerfing too.

This. I've said this since Vanilla. He can do it for free. Bison and dhalsims teleport can be punished on reaction....but you have to read akuma's to punish it. Kind of bs tbh.

On a side note I was quite happy with rogs headbutt nerf. Every other DP was nerfed in super....why did his escape the same fate?

Fergus_

Azza wrote: »

Agree with you on that nerf for Ryu.
TKCS needed to go.
LOL at the Bison complaint.
Giefs got better in AE (might be more to do with getting 2 good match up and other characters getting nerfed) jab.spd is just obscene.
Guile got it too bad but the ultra 2 needed a nerf. It was too good in a fireball war.




Guile got 23 nerfs in AE?

All i heard was.
His 3 normal flash kicks got nerfed.
Less damage on u2.
More start up on u2.
Less meter build off sonic boom.
Counterhit on recovery of sonic boom.
Backfist damage nerf.
Air throw start up increase.
What else he get?

Again agree with on the Ryu nerf.
Honda escaped almost untouched from vanilla. He deserved everything he got in AE.
I'm not sure about Blanka balls. I thought everyone could punish it on block already. Infairness everyone should be able to punish it on block. Its fast and difficult to block. Was only the medium and hard version that got the nerf. Probably help balance the Zangief match up a little.
Zangief still has his wake up game. Just gets less opportunities to use it. He's got a new less effective mix up (probably better for the blanka match up) and a better mix up against corner trapped opponents. Jab SPD is stupid good.



SF4 Ryu would be S tier. Damage would be too good, trade ultra and super trap. SF4 Gen I don't mind but his ex.wall dive would have to loose the invincibility it had.

SSF IV Cammy's TCKS can rot in hell. Rose U2 is retarded. Abels U2 needs to be what its like in AE.

AE Makoto and Fei long need slight damage reductions. Hitboxes on the twins must be looked at and few other tweakes. Akuma needs recovery on whiff palm and less frame advantage off s.hk. His teleport needs nerfing too.

Sakura does not need buffs. She's top 10 in AE.

Lol no she isn't. But I do agree that she's fine as she is. A faster st.hk and a less startup on fireball would be nice though

The Hound

Akumas fine. His teleport is fine. You can bait and punish it, some characters can ultra it on reaction. Akuma takes a lot of work and one mistake can cost him.

What I mean by bisons ultra is OgeiKeaney was saying the new input is a nerf but the old input was a joke, a gimmick ultra at times. After all, he's a charge character.

I dont see akumas dominate scenes anywhere

Azza

Balrogs Headbutt did get nerfed in Super. Light version lost 30 damage and the medium and hard lost 20.

Unlike DP's its a charge move and thus can't be used as instant anti air and to combo into usually scales the damage on it really badly. The light version still whiffs on crouchers. Not to mention the fact its got a slow start up. Very easy to safe jump.

ogiekeaney

The Hound wrote: »

Akumas fine. His teleport is fine. You can bait and punish it, some characters can ultra it on reaction. Akuma takes a lot of work and one mistake can cost him.

What I mean by bisons ultra is OgeiKeaney was saying the new input is a nerf but the old input was a joke, a gimmick ultra at times. After all, he's a charge character.

I dont see akumas dominate scenes anywhere

meh, i think akumas ultra is fine. bait it out and punish.

bison's ultra has limited uses so i dont see how making it a non charge input makes it rediculous. chun, balrog,honda all have non charge ultras.

Dreddybajs

Not ones that you could react to a fullscreen fireball with and nail them though.

ogiekeaney

no good player is gonna throw out a fireball from full screen when they see chargin with a fully stocked ultra meter.

chunlis ultra two is way more viable although hondas and balorogs are admittedly piss poor.

Azza

ogiekeaney wrote:

no good player is gonna throw out a fireball from full screen when they see chargin with a fully stocked ultra meter.

Except a Guile player (and probably Dee Jay too). Recovery on his booms was too good to punish.

Bison's U2 is the slowest ultra in the game. Its what roughly balanced it when it was a non charge move. Its start up speed make it very borderline in punishing alot of fireballs (not all). I'd happily take a significant damage nerf for a moderate speed improvement and leave it as a charge move.

Dreddybajs

ogiekeaney wrote: »

no good player is gonna throw out a fireball from full screen when they see chargin with a fully stocked ultra meter.

chunlis ultra two is way more viable although hondas and balorogs are admittedly piss poor.

I said fullscreen to point out that it punishes fireballs thrown from pretty much any range on screen. It was crazy in super as long as your reactions were good, you shut down almost every fireball character's zoning game once you had it stocked.

ogiekeaney

Azza wrote: »

Except a Guile player (and probably Dee Jay too). Recovery on his booms was too good to punish.

Bison's U2 is the slowest ultra in the game. Its what roughly balanced it when it was a non charge move. Its start up speed make it very borderline in punishing alot of fireballs (not all). I'd happily take a significant damage nerf for a moderate speed improvement and leave it as a charge move.

i remember a guile throwing a boom from point blank range on my wakeup ultra and still having time to block

Ramza

Bison's U2 is the most annoying ****

Azza

How many fireball characters relied heavily on zoning?

I'll give you Ryu and Sagat. It reversed them from being bad match ups for Bison to being good ones. What other match ups did it really significantly effect.

Azza

ogiekeaney wrote:

i remember a guile throwing a boom from point blank range on my wakeup ultra and still having time to block

Travel time is always the same regardless of range. Always 1+21. It moves much slower at close ranges. Always takes the same time to go active. Range is irrelevant.

The Hound

I think Bisons U2 is fine now

liamnojo92

They better not nerf Viper it's taken me like 2 months to get alright with her and even then I lose like 40% of my matches lol.

K.O.Kiki

AE Adon is ass. Give him back Super wake-up and a faster overhead.

Speed Boat

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

AE Adon is ass. Give him back Super wake-up and a faster overhead.

This game already has too many match ups to learn with out having to relearn all your wake up pressure and set ups just for Adon.

The Hound

AE Adon is a better character that Super Adon

stev0knev022

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

AE Adon is ass. Give him back Super wake-up and a faster overhead.

Somebody's ass.......................not sure if it's adon tbh.

Shokashi

has anyone noticed the lack of improvements with cody, part from the knife which hardly anyone uses all they did was change his c.lk from 4 frames to 3. part from sagat he has a crap back dash thats punished when used and all his wake ups are not instant like every other player on the game even the ex versions of them

ogiekeaney

Shokashi wrote: »

has anyone noticed the lack of improvements with cody, part from the knife which hardly anyone uses all they did was change his c.lk from 4 frames to 3. part from sagat he has a crap back dash thats punished when used and all his wake ups are not instant like every other player on the game even the ex versions of them

yeah, with safe jumps and option selects you dont have much option but to block on wakeup......... its a pretty good option though

Still think he is a pretty underrated character.