Randy Orton wrestling ability debate!

Rjd2

Is Randy Orton a good wrestler?
When people talk about Orton, the discussion normally focuses on his character, Hunter, Legacy and sometimes his backstage behavior, but his in ring skills is something that seem to really split people.

Some argue he needs a Cena or Michaels to put on a good match and he falters when in a ring with a less experienced worker.

Is that a fair assertion or is Randy much better than people give credit for? Over to you folks and all that jazz.

sky88

i think he is a good wrestler he just doesnt show it much because he does the restholds which i heard him say in a interview he only does them to piss off fans and get more heel heat

krudler

He can have a great match when he wants but the sloooow, chinlock, headlock, chinlock, stare at opponent, chinlock, method is getting old, I get he's a heel and heels should methodically break down oponents not use big moves but his matches can be as dull as ditchwater sometimes, see the main event of WM25 for example, I never need to see that match again

SlickRic

he can certainly wrestle.

watch him winning the World Heavyweight Title against Benoit for a bit of proof.

but i've never seen him have a real 5-star match, or really carry anyone to a top, top match wrestling-wise.

he's definitely more character and story based than anything. and since WWE is not overly concerned with putting on wrestling clinics anymore, and since it's all about entertainment, Orton doesn't need to put on 5-star wrestling matches.

SlickRic

krudler wrote: »

see the main event of WM25 for example, I never need to see that match again

the most forgettable main event i can remember.

(man, that is one of the more contradictory sentences i've ever written)

:P

michael.etc...

SlickRic wrote: »

the most forgettable main event i can remember.

The thing with WM 25 though- i would not for a second blame the failure fo the main event on Orton. I'd put that down to them deciding to work an entirely different match from what the crowd both expected and wanted. And I'd definitely put the blame for that one on HHH and Vince.

Personally, I think Orton's great, but he's rarely allowed the opportunity to show why- because when positioned against people like HHH and Batista, he's all too obviously portrayed as inferior. And part of the reason that his run has gained so little interest is the stale Raw main event scene.

He's had some really classy matches in his time, and he's a great storyteller, but he's probably not going to be appreciated by fans as such at this moment.

SlickRic

michael.etc... wrote: »

The thing with WM 25 though- i would not for a second blame the failure fo the main event on Orton. I'd put that down to them deciding to work an entirely different match from what the crowd both expected and wanted. And I'd definitely put the blame for that one on HHH and Vince.

100% agree; especially in terms of the 'type of match' comment.

i was merely commenting on how cr*p the match was in that instance, not Orton's role in it.

michael.etc...

SlickRic wrote: »

100% agree; especially in terms of the 'type of match' comment.

i was merely commenting on how cr*p the match was in that instance, not Orton's role in it.

Oh yeah totally- I gathered that you appreciate him, I only quoted your comment for the sake of the WM 25 reference.

The other thing about that match, was that with the crowd on the fence, they immediately hit finishers, and killed whatever energy there was left. I had the feeling they did that as an attempt to compensate for it not being a vicious brawl, and it totally backfired.

Tricity Bendix

I'm tired of his OTT facials and movements. I gave him an average cus I know he has ability, but I just don't want to watch his matches.

callaway92

Randy Orton is a great wrestler. I think he has good abilities. His finisher has really good power and can come out of nowhere. He is very muscly. He has nice jabs and nice punches and kicks. He is very strong.

Riddle101

Meh I'm not a big fan of the Master of the Headlock's wrestling, but I wouldn't put him down either. he's good enough that I don't want to throw my shoes at the TV when he wrestles.

SlickRic

michael.etc... wrote: »

The other thing about that match, was that with the crowd on the fence, they immediately hit finishers, and killed whatever energy there was left. I had the feeling they did that as an attempt to compensate for it not being a vicious brawl, and it totally backfired.

as you say, i will never understand how they decided it should be a wrestling match, full of holds and counterholds.

utterly ridiculous, and contradictory to the intensity that was supposed to be in the feud.

Vince, as boss, and HHH, as the veteran, must take the vast responsibilty for it's massive failure as a spectacle.

RE: Orton; his acting and facials are some of my favourite things about him; as OTT as they can indeed be sometimes. his acting in the recent 'I Quit' match with Cena was quite sublime. it complimented his ring performance superbly.

DM_7

I have no idea what his true ability as a wrestler is.

Randy performs like a knackered guy in his late 30's early 40's. He displays all the charachter traits needed as a heel but doesn't need to wrestle out of his skin to get peoples attention.

I wish he was given a platform to put on great matches where there is plenty of wrestling but his story telling is what wwe want him to do.

Machismo Fan

michael.etc... wrote: »

The other thing about that match, was that with the crowd on the fence, they immediately hit finishers, and killed whatever energy there was left. I had the feeling they did that as an attempt to compensate for it not being a vicious brawl, and it totally backfired.

My biggest problem with that match was that they blew their load in the first few minutes as both men's offence pretty much revolve around their respective finishers and after hitting both in the first two minutes they had very little left.

I really hate Orton. He bores me so far beyond tears it's not even funny. His long headlocks and slow style just doesn't deliver for main events. He's only any good if he's given a gimmick to work with and being honest all the good matches of his that I can remember are gimmick matches. (Interesting side note, the PWI reader poll question of if you could only watch one wrestler wrestle who would it be? winner was Randy Orton, I was shocked).

Kess73

Orton is in the worst place a wrestler can be with me. Total apathy.

I just don't care either way when he is in the ring or doing a promo. I don't dislike his character nor do I like it, he is just bland to me and unless he is in with someone that interests me, his matches are the ones where a bathroom break or a snack run take place.

So I cannot really comment with any authority on whether he is technically a good wrestler, and he may well be, as I switch off mentally when he comes onscreen.

michael.etc...

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I really hate Orton. He bores me so far beyond tears it's not even funny. His long headlocks and slow style just doesn't deliver for main events. He's only any good if he's given a gimmick to work with and being honest all the good matches of his that I can remember are gimmick matches.

Have to completely disagree. Off the top of my head, there's a whole bunch of non-gimmick matches he's been involved in I thought were great... Orton/Angle from ONS 06, Orton/Rey/Angle from WM 22, the Orton/Benoit matches from both 06, and back in 04. I also thought his title match with Cena at Summerslam a couple of years back was great, as was his Armaggedon 08 match with Batista (though it didn't get enough time). He also had quality singles matches with HBK, Shelton Benjamin, Edge, and probably others, in 04-05. I thought his Raw match with Edge just after Rated RKO was great as well. At WM 21 he brought the best of out Taker, and he's had sporadic quality outings with undercard talent.

Jolt2007

He's really good, when he gets the chance. One of the few to use psychology these days, but like already said he's made to look too weak against the likes of HHH and Batista but he shines against mid card guys. Past few months of the top of my head he made Ted DiBiase and Primo look a million bucks in very good matches.

flahavaj

Anyone who thinks Randy Orton isn't a good worker needs to have a look at the Breaking point match with Cena and get back to me. The guy put in an absolutely world clas performance in that one, up there with any one night showing that I can remember from any WWE wrestler this decade. He was THAT good.

Penn

flahavaj wrote: »

Anyone who thinks Randy Orton isn't a good worker needs to have a look at the Breaking point match with Cena and get back to me. The guy put in an absolutely world clas performance in that one, up there with any one night showing that I can remember from any WWE wrestler this decade. He was THAT good.

I wasn't even really going to pay too much attention to that match until I heard people here raving about it. I had a new found respect for both guys after that. Great from start to finish

I think Randy can be great, but this whole psychotic thing means that most of his matches can be really boring. But he has the ability. He has the talent. He can put on a great match.

Snakeblood

flahavaj wrote: »

Anyone who thinks Randy Orton isn't a good worker needs to have a look at the Breaking point match with Cena and get back to me. The guy put in an absolutely world clas performance in that one, up there with any one night showing that I can remember from any WWE wrestler this decade. He was THAT good.

He forces so much character into his work, it's amazing. He's far better than anyone else I can think of, more believable than Michaels, able to appear weaker than Undertaker, better agility than hunter, more presence than Batista.

I love watching him psych up for the RKO. Or when he had Cena for the second rope DDT, and waited till the ref counted four before he DDTed him. He's a consummate asshole.

Diabhal Beag

Technically sound but is better at promos than he is at wrestling. He never has to be carried either so I'm sure he isn't hard to work with.

Machismo Fan

michael.etc... wrote: »

Have to completely disagree. Off the top of my head, there's a whole bunch of non-gimmick matches he's been involved in I thought were great... Orton/Angle from ONS 06, Orton/Rey/Angle from WM 22, the Orton/Benoit matches from both 06, and back in 04. I also thought his title match with Cena at Summerslam a couple of years back was great, as was his Armaggedon 08 match with Batista (though it didn't get enough time). He also had quality singles matches with HBK, Shelton Benjamin, Edge, and probably others, in 04-05. I thought his Raw match with Edge just after Rated RKO was great as well. At WM 21 he brought the best of out Taker, and he's had sporadic quality outings with undercard talent.

But he's had very few (if any) classics. For me, he's a decent hand in the upper-mid card who can only reach the main event standard of quality with the help of gimmicks (which actually shouldn't be a problem in WWE these days but you know what I mean). Orton walks the very, very fine line between boring and calculating and for me he constantly falls on the side of boring. I'll admit he's had some good to great matches from time to time but too often does his style have me falling asleep.

michael.etc...

Machismo Fan wrote: »

But he's had very few (if any) classics. For me, he's a decent hand in the upper-mid card who can only reach the main event standard of quality with the help of gimmicks (which actually shouldn't be a problem in WWE these days but you know what I mean). Orton walks the very, very fine line between boring and calculating and for me he constantly falls on the side of boring. I'll admit he's had some good to great matches from time to time but too often does his style have me falling asleep.

Ahh fair enough. But I quoted you because you mentioned that

He's only any good if he's given a gimmick to work with

not that he hasn't had any "classic" matches.

I genuinely think he's done a disservice by continually being booked in repetitive scenarios. Much of the stuff I mentioned was better despite being in the mid-card (such as his absolute belter against Edge- which would have been a classic if not for the heel-heel dynamic that confused the crowd for the first half), and especially during his 2004 heel period, when the WWE weren't terrified of him being cheered.

I think the Orton chinlock thing is way over-emphasized these days. And I would say, he's always great, not when given a gimmick to work with- but a great story.

MuscleShark

No offense quity simply the most overrated wrestler in WWE. Good in working storylines but terrible wrestler

Iang87

takes a move like no other apart from the rock of course, can make any match exciting cos of this too

Fozzy

I like watching Orton more than any other WWE wrestler, he's very believable in his character and is a great wrestler