0.1's back - away and timing.

N00b2fitness

Hi sorry if this one has been done but I did search and didn't find the answer.

My question is related to getting AWAY 0.1's and when to apply them.

I played in an away open competition yesterday and had a miserable 22 points. I'll eventually get that 0.1 back through the system and when it comes my playing handicap will go up from 16 to 17.

Do I wait until it arrives or do I make the adjustment myself before my next home competition?

I was off 16.4 entering the away competition - I'm playing at home on Sunday and I suspect the computer might print out my card as 16 (without the 0.1 applied).

My thoughts are that I need to do the following:

1. Put my score and the CSS etc. into the AWAY book at my home club
2. Make the adjustment myself and adjust my playing handicap upward to 17 from 16

I just want to be sure before I do it as I don't want to get disqualified on Sunday for having the wrong handicap...

gorfield

N00b2fitness wrote: »

Hi sorry if this one has been done but I did search and didn't find the answer.

My question is related to getting AWAY 0.1's and when to apply them.

I played in an away open competition yesterday and had a miserable 22 points. I'll eventually get that 0.1 back through the system and when it comes my playing handicap will go up from 16 to 17.

Do I wait until it arrives or do I make the adjustment myself before my next home competition?

I was off 16.4 entering the away competition - I'm playing at home on Sunday and I suspect the computer might print out my card as 16 (without the 0.1 applied).

My thoughts are that I need to do the following:

1. Put my score and the CSS etc. into the AWAY book at my home club
2. Make the adjustment myself and adjust my playing handicap upward to 17 from 16

I just want to be sure before I do it as I don't want to get disqualified on Sunday for having the wrong handicap...

You must wait until your .1 registers on your home club computer, only then is your hcap adjusted. I had this exact scenario 2wks ago and the gui cleared it up.

N00b2fitness

gorfield wrote: »

You must wait until your .1 registers on your home club computer, only then is your hcap adjusted. I had this exact scenario 2wks ago and the gui cleared it up.

Thanks for the clarification.

That's interesting - does the same apply the other way around I wonder? i.e if someone gets 44 points in an open competition off let's say 16 and the CSS has been calculated etc. Do they play off 16 then at home until it comes through?

Mr. Larson

Thats interesting indeed...

I know of someone has been playing in open comps almost every other day for the past few weeks who has had several scores in the 40's but has not dropped a single 0.1 and is still entering competing and winning off 13.

I always thought the onus was on the player to apply cuts or 0.1's immediately. In fact I could have sworn I read that on the CONGU site.

Gonna have a dig for it now.

Johnny_Fontane

not so sure about that.

When I input a score on the computer at my course, it asks me beforehand whether my handicap has changed due to away games. You either answer yes or no and then go and enter your score.

in your case, your handicap has changed. so i think you would declare that before handing in your next scorecard if not already applied

PhilipMarlowe

We have covered this a few times alright...
When you have a good day and beat CSS, you must cut your own handicap. If you don't know what the CSS was for the day then you must cut yourself based on the SSS.
Even if you enter a competition off a lower handicap than you actually should be, your score stands. However, if you enter off a higher handicap than you should be, then you are disqualified.
You should report your away scores to your home club but you have to wait for due process in getting your 0.1's back. It's unfortunate but them's the rules.... you cannot 'self-increase'.

Consequently to safeguard the player and preserve the integrity of handicapping, increases in handicap may only be made by a player's Home Club after scores have been duly reported.

mag

Jabberwocky wrote: »

I know of someone has been playing in open comps almost every other day for the past few weeks who has had several scores in the 40's but has not dropped a single 0.1 and is still entering competing and winning off 13.

thats illegal and they should be DQd for the comps they won off the higher handicap.

G1032

Jabberwocky wrote: »

Thats interesting indeed...

I know of someone has been playing in open comps almost every other day for the past few weeks who has had several scores in the 40's but has not dropped a single 0.1 and is still entering competing and winning off 13.

I always thought the onus was on the player to apply cuts or 0.1's immediately. In fact I could have sworn I read that on the CONGU site.

Gonna have a dig for it now.

This is just downright cheating. How is this guy allowed to get away with it?
You absolutely must cut yourself if you break standard scratch if your home club doesn't do it immediately. If you have a score at an away course and have for example a competitive round the next day, the onus is on you to contact the away course and find out what the standard scratch was. If you broke it you must cut yourself.
This kind of crap makes my blood boil. It's beyond me how people continually get away with this sort of thing.

G1032

Licksy wrote: »

If you don't know what the CSS was for the day then you must cut yourself based on the SSS.
quote]

Licksy
Do you not have to contact the away club and find out what the standard scratch was?? There could potentially be a couple of shots difference between the CSS and SSS. I don't think cutting your handicap according to the SSS would cut the mustard. You could still end you not cutting yourself enough, and still play off a wrong handicap the next day.

madds

For .1's the local rule we apply in Lucan is that players may not adjust for .1s until it is agreed by the handicap committee and posted on the board.

Mr. Larson

ronaldochokes wrote: »

This is just downright cheating. How is this guy allowed to get away with it?
You absolutely must cut yourself if you break standard scratch if your home club doesn't do it immediately. If you have a score at an away course and have for example a competitive round the next day, the onus is on you to contact the away course and find out what the standard scratch was. If you broke it you must cut yourself.
This kind of crap makes my blood boil. It's beyond me how people continually get away with this sort of thing.

I know it is - but the individual concerned is not aware of the process. I'm not excusing it - but as long as there is no mechanism to track it it will be exploited either through ignorance or flagrant abuse...

The next time his club downloads away scores or the next time he plays at his home club he will get adjusted for 2 weeks of cuts and 0.1's - but as far as I can see - it will go undetected until then... net result you can compete for a while off an incorrect handicap. Should be looked at.

PhilipMarlowe

Obviously you should try and find out what the CSS was and cut yourself based on that but in the event that you can't find out, then you should work off the SSS.
If you don't know your exact handicap to begin with then you are supposed to make the reduction from the lowest possible handicap you could be (eg you are off 10 then make the reduction from 9.5)

Here's what CONGU says:

• If you play in a qualifying competition away from your Home Club you are required to report to your Home Club, as soon as practicable, all scores recorded including ‘No Returns’ together with competition date, venue and Competition Scratch Score.
You should be aware that failure to report ‘away’ scores when so required by the System is likely to lead to suspension of handicap.
• If you return a Qualifying Score(s) below your Playing Handicap at your Home Club or away and you are unable to
- ascertain whether or not your Playing Handicap has been reduced as a result of the score(s) or
-report an away score to your Home Club
you must, before playing in another competition at your Home Club or away, for that competition make such reduction to your Playing Handicap as appropriate under the System by applying the Competition Scratch Score, if known, otherwise the Standard Scratch Score, to calculate your Nett Differential and handicap reduction.
If you do not know your Exact Handicap, such reduction should be made from your Playing Handicap less 0.5 (e.g. if your Playing Handicap is 16 then the reduction should be made from 15.5) See Clause 16.11

PhilipMarlowe

Of course, If you don't know the CSS and you make the reduction based on the SSS and this has you hovering on the borderline where there could be a full shot difference, then you could always play off a lower handicap for that competition.
As was said before, if you play off a lower handicap than is necessary, your score will stand (obviously not as fair on you but you wont be DQ'ed).
Playing off the wrong (higher) handicap is a mandatory DQ so always err on the cautious side.

The main gripe about not being able to apply increases yourself is that sometimes it makes the difference of a full shot like going from 4 to 5 and being able to play in a Junior Scratch or not being eligible.
It can sometimes take 3 weeks or so for a 0.1 to return from an away competition... all to do with how quickly the scores are uploaded etc from both clubs. I wish it was more 'instant' but it's understandable to an extent too.

G1032

Licksy wrote: »

Of course, If you don't know the CSS and you make the reduction based on the SSS and this has you hovering on the borderline where there could be a full shot difference, then you could always play off a lower handicap for that competition.
As was said before, if you play off a lower handicap than is necessary, your score will stand (obviously not as fair on you but you wont be DQ'ed).
Playing off the wrong (higher) handicap is a mandatory DQ so always err on the cautious side.

The main gripe about not being able to apply increases yourself is that sometimes it makes the difference of a full shot like going from 4 to 5 and being able to play in a Junior Scratch or not being eligible.
It can sometimes take 3 weeks or so for a 0.1 to return from an away competition... all to do with how quickly the scores are uploaded etc from both clubs. I wish it was more 'instant' but it's understandable to an extent too.

I know ya. It can take an age to get processed - by both clubs. I find at times that the away score will be posted on GOLFNET but no point one applied - as if you were in the buffer zone, but then after a few days the point one will get added.
Which do you think is fairer Licksy - the old way of getting point ones at the end of the month, or the current system?

Daithio9

Jabberwocky wrote: »

I know it is - but the individual concerned is not aware of the process. I'm not excusing it - but as long as there is no mechanism to track it it will be exploited either through ignorance or flagrant abuse...

The next time his club downloads away scores or the next time he plays at his home club he will get adjusted for 2 weeks of cuts and 0.1's - but as far as I can see - it will go undetected until then... net result you can compete for a while off an incorrect handicap. Should be looked at.

Jabber that's shocking behaviour and tbh I can't understand why you have not reported it to your handicapp sec (asumming you have not), or at the very least made the individual in question aware of the proper procedure.

Mr. Larson

Daithio9 wrote: »

Jabber that's shocking behaviour and tbh I can't understand why you have not reported it to your handicapp sec (asumming you have not), or at the very least made the individual in question aware of the proper procedure.

I don't really know the guy - not from my club - just a randomer and to be honest I just gleaned that that is what was happening from chatting to him on the way around. I did mention that I thought you were supposed to cut yourself based on CSS for the day but he seemed pretty clueless about the whole thing and I don't know how much sunk in. I wasn't gonna get into it any further.

Daithio9

Jabberwocky wrote: »

I don't really know the guy - not from my club - just a randomer and to be honest I just gleaned that that is what was happening from chatting to him on the way around. I did mention that I thought you were supposed to cut yourself based on CSS for the day but he seemed pretty clueless about the whole thing and I don't know how much sunk in. I wasn't gonna get into it any further.

Ah fair enough so, I didn't realise he was a stranger to you and from another club, I think you couldn't really do anymore than what you did do to enlighten him, hopefully it sank in.

zoostorm

That fella only let on to be clueless, these lads know when they can get away with it, which seems to suggest that his handicap secretary is a bit slow. I was handicap secretary and used to download form the GUI every 2 days. The problem with 0.1's and cuts is that most handicap secretaries couldn't be arsed to spend 3 minutes a couple of times a week to update their handicaps. The clown that came after me has to get someone else to do it for him. If I had known he was illiterate I'd have stayed on.