Vince McMahons WCW

Shaneomac

Just watching the Arn Anderson commentated wcw matches during the early stages of the invasion on Vintage collection. Does anyone reckon Vince ever really planned to relaunch WCW or was the complete burial always going to happen. He did give them their own ring apron and logo after all.

Red Sleeping Beauty

I don't know. He gave some of the WCW conracted wrestlers some TV time on the WCW show back in 2001 just before King of the Ring 2001 (before the "invasion"). I don't think he wanted to relaunch it, just rebrand it to make some money and kill it off a bit.#

He had to know in his "inifinite" wisdom that his invasion angle would fail. He had to

Shaneomac

I think I read somewhere he had every intention of launching a brand possibly in the place of Smackdown but couldnt get a tv deal based on their propensity to lose money. I find this a little hard to believe as the brand IMO would have done ok.

Bounty Hunter

I would have really liked to see it.

Imagine this for a brand split:

WWE Raw, WCW, ECW and Smackdown (replacing superstars)

WWE: WWE Title, IC title, Womens ... Vince in charge

WCW: Heavyweight title, US title, Cruiserweight... Bischoff in charge

ECW: ECW championship, TV Championship.... Heyman in charge

I could imagine legitimate brand rivalry with this set-up especially if it was set up in the falout of the Invasion angle with old WCW fans for example continuing as new WCW fans even if it is under Vinces ownership and he was making money from them.


I do think that the idea (maybe not as outlined above) was seriously thought about but a number of factors probably meant it didnt happen among other things the fact that Sting/Goldberg etc werent part of the Invasion to Vinces ego wanting to bury the former competition and the fact that SD was an established brand of the WWF's and they most likely didnt want to lose it to rebrand their show WCW Nitro or whatever. Not too mention external factors such as getting a TV deal etc like Shaneomac says although i too wouldent have seen the rebranding to be that much of a problem for this reason.

Shaneomac

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

I would have really liked to see it.

Imagine this for a brand split:

WWE Raw, WCW, ECW and Smackdown (replacing superstars)

WWE: WWE Title, IC title, Womens ... Vince in charge

WCW: Heavyweight title, US title, Cruiserweight... Bischoff in charge

ECW: ECW championship, TV Championship.... Heyman in charge

Mouth watering stuff altogether especially if instead of waiting like he did hiring nwo, goldberg, steiner and even sting straight away. Could have been some great tv. Ceis la vie

Bounty Hunter

Shaneomac wrote: »

Mouth watering stuff altogether especially if instead of waiting like he did hiring nwo, goldberg, steiner and even sting straight away. Could have been some great tv. Ceis la vie

yup imagine the potential WCW line-up to begin with also using ex WCW guys already at the WWF:

Goldberg, Sting, Steiner, NWO (Hogan, Hall & Nash), Booker T, Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Mysterio, DDP, Flair, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn, Chavo, Billy Kidman, Jimmy yang, Jamie Noble, Gregory Helms, Finlay, Torrie Wilson, Stacey Keibler, Mean Gene Okerlund

and thats not including many other WWF guys who could be included in this list although most would have been seen as more WWF than WCW or other WCW stars from the time like Kanyon, Sean O'Haire, Chuck Palumbo, Konnan, Juventud Guerrera etc

although of course as time went by and drafts etc happened it would perhaps be less like the original WCW (like ECW now) but to begin with they could always draft guys who did have some sort of history with WCW, for instance like how Austin joined them during the Invasion/Alliance angle and they actually pointed out his WCW tattoo.

digital pimp

two things prevented it
WCW was a dead brand, and needed a complete relaunch if it had any hope of coming back

BUT...
WWE had a contract with Viacom, meaning they couldnt produce shows for non viacom owned channles

that was the real issue.

Penn

Alan Rouge wrote: »

He had to know in his "inifinite" wisdom that his invasion angle would fail. He had to

Was I the only one who loved the Invasion? Okay, maybe it went on a wee bit too long, but damn, when Booker T attacked Austin at KOTR 01, I didn't know what the hell was going on. Then ECW joining the fray. The Rock coming back and having to pick sides. People switching sides for months. I thought it was brilliant

digital pimp

I loved the invasion angle
but they should have had it end at wrestlemania
that made more sense

Penn

digital pimp wrote: »

I loved the invasion angle
but they should have had it end at wrestlemania
that made more sense

I dunno, that definitely would have been stretching it, particularly with the Royal Rumble. The winner of the Rumble wouldn't have gotten his shot in the main event of WM if it was a 5 on 5 match, unless they decided to end the Invasion with WCW champion VS WWF champion, with the winner of the Rumble winning one of those titles at No Way Out instead.

I think Survivor Series was perfect though, especially with the typical survivor series 5 on 5 elimination match. A match like that as the final match at WM just wouldn't have felt right.

digital pimp

vinnie should have put his hands in his pockets and bought out the contracts of Goldberg, big poppa pump, and the nwo, and others
imagine if WM18 was austin vs goldberg
vinnie would have made is money back twice over

Fozzy

There was a massive story in the Observer a few weeks ago about the history of WCW. It mentioned that Vince had plans in place to give WCW Raw's time slot, but he cancelled everything after the show with Booker vs Bagwell in the main event. Fans had been booing WCW matches on house shows and that match got the worst reaction. There were people furious at the thought that tickets that they'd bought for upcoming Raws might be WCW shows. So he dropped all plans just like that

Penn

Fozzy wrote: »

There was a massive story in the Observer a few weeks ago about the history of WCW. It mentioned that Vince had plans in place to give WCW Raw's time slot, but he cancelled everything after the show with Booker vs Bagwell in the main event. Fans had been booing WCW matches on house shows and that match got the worst reaction. There were people furious at the thought that tickets that they'd bought for upcoming Raws might be WCW shows. So he dropped all plans just like that

Give them RAWs timeslot? That would have been the worst move in history. Smackdown, sure! But RAW? Thats like fighting someone for a drink of water, beating them, then going "You look thirsty. Here, have a drink". I know Vince would own WCW, but Raw won the Monday Night Wars. Replacing Raw with a WCW show would have been stupid. Hilarious just for the idea of it, but stupid nonetheless.

I wouldn't have minded if the actual "Invasion" ended and WCW/ECW took over Smackdown. Lets face it, with the brand split its pretty much what happened anyway. WWF kept all the wrestlers they wanted from WCW, a few from the WWF joined the Alliance, so it would have just been like the brand split.

Red Sleeping Beauty

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Was I the only one who loved the Invasion? Okay, maybe it went on a wee bit too long, but damn, when Booker T attacked Austin at KOTR 01, I didn't know what the hell was going on. Then ECW joining the fray. The Rock coming back and having to pick sides. People switching sides for months. I thought it was brilliant

I really liked Austin during the whole year and his comeback was marred by the invasion thing. Him and Angle had a good programme running for a good while.

Jeff Hardy vs. RVD was ok. Nah the Invasion thing just didn't get over at all.

ECW was watered down and WCW was lacking the big names. They didn't have much going for them really which part the problem of how WCW was run with just the big names.

Fozzy wrote: »

There was a massive story in the Observer a few weeks ago about the history of WCW. It mentioned that Vince had plans in place to give WCW Raw's time slot, but he cancelled everything after the show with Booker vs Bagwell in the main event. Fans had been booing WCW matches on house shows and that match got the worst reaction. There were people furious at the thought that tickets that they'd bought for upcoming Raws might be WCW shows. So he dropped all plans just like that

Booker couldn't get over as champ could he ? Well I thought anyway. He didn't do anything for me and DDP was pretty useless with that "stalker" angle. I think Bagwell only wrestled on the one WCW RAW did he not ?. He wasn't a part of the invasion angle.

citytillidie

Remember the divorce angle?

They were going to go on with that and have Vince and Linda split the company down the middle and one run a show each, with one been on Monday and one on Thursday.

The ratings and fan reaction to the Booker T and Bagwell match put an end to that.

I have been reading a book called The Death of WCW its pretty good

Vince135792003

The plan initially was to give WCW it's own time slot with the Raw slot being one suggestion. They never got/made a new deal with Spike or any other tv station to get it moving though.

digital pimp

i always wonder;
if TNA goes under, would WWE buy them like they did WCW?
theres 7 years of video libary there.....

Penn

digital pimp wrote: »

i always wonder;
if TNA goes under, would WWE buy them like they did WCW?
theres 7 years of video libary there.....

I think they would. Some of the wrestlers they could bring over, and the video library... I think they'd definitely consider it.

I think there was a thread about this a few weeks ago though

MuscleShark

WCW should never never run by WWE. Did you see new ECW? Vince completely mess the ECW image. Vince mcmahon is type of guy who likes to take people ideas and all he cares is himself. What happen to Booker? what happen to steiner? ddp? bagwell? goldberg what happened to all of them when they came to WWE?. I am glad Sting never worked for WWE if he was he will be screwed up. Im sorry if i offended anyone its just my feelings towards him. He killed pro wrestling. He killed WCW

Podge2k7

MuscleShark wrote: »

WCW should never never run by WWE. Did you see new ECW? Vince completely mess the ECW image. Vince mcmahon is type of guy who likes to take people ideas and all he cares is himself. What happen to Booker? what happen to steiner? ddp? bagwell? goldberg what happened to all of them when they came to WWE?. I am glad Sting never worked for WWE if he was he will be screwed up. Im sorry if i offended anyone its just my feelings towards him. He killed pro wrestling. He killed WCW

Lol

Bounty Hunter

MuscleShark wrote: »

What happen to Booker? what happen to steiner? ddp? bagwell? goldberg what happened to all of them when they came to WWE?. I am glad Sting never worked for WWE if he was he will be screwed up. Im sorry if i offended anyone its just my feelings towards him. He killed pro wrestling. He killed WCW

well the thing is, this thread was discussing the fact that Vince had considerd relauncing WCW under the WWF umberella and if he had not decided against that would you not think that those things might have gone differently? why would he bury Sting, Steiner etc if he wanted them to be headlining a brand of his in an attempt to bring in ratings and revenue.

Obviously he decided against giving WCW its own WWF show so he would probably be the first to say he killed WCW, infact he would probably be proud of that fact tbh.

Muscleshark wrote:

WCW should never never run by WWE. Did you see new ECW? Vince completely mess the ECW image. Vince mcmahon is type of guy who likes to take people ideas and all he cares is himself

as far as ECW is concerned, many many people have been raving about how good ECW has been this year. However you (and anyone else) need to stop comparing it to the old ECW, that is just a name now, its not extreme and tbh the WWE dont really promote it as that all that much atleast not extreme in the same manner i.e blood n bumps. ECW is now WWE's on air development program and it is very good at that but thats just my own personal opinion and because of when its on ill admit i dont get to see it enough.

MuscleShark

I respect your personal opinion. Its just i missed the old WCW days and the excitement of it back then

Vince135792003

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

why would he bury Sting, Steiner etc if he wanted them to be headlining a brand of his in an attempt to bring in ratings and revenue.

As best as I can remember, the original idea for a WCW show was to have a few major names that they signed upon acquisition (Booker and DDP) as well as a lot more lesser ones (Chavo, Kidman, Palumbo, Kanyon etc...) but for the show to be supplemented with major WWE stars (There was talk of the Rock being put on the WCW show at the time).

At the time, many of the top WCW names had long standing contracts that WWF were not prepared to match or better in order for them to come in at the start of the Invasion.

Essentially so, it was basically gonna be what the draft turned out to be 6 months except Raw and Smacdown names were used rather than WWF and WCW.

davrho

MuscleShark wrote: »

WCW should never never run by WWE. Did you see new ECW? Vince completely mess the ECW image. Vince mcmahon is type of guy who likes to take people ideas and all he cares is himself. What happen to Booker? what happen to steiner? ddp? bagwell? goldberg what happened to all of them when they came to WWE?. I am glad Sting never worked for WWE if he was he will be screwed up. Im sorry if i offended anyone its just my feelings towards him. He killed pro wrestling. He killed WCW

I know where you are coming from but have you considered the financial mess WCW and ECW were in? To be honest wwf was a complete joke too but survived, only just. The days of huge wrestling audiences were matched with massive financial mismanagement. All companies are equally as guilty to pissing away their income.

To blame Vince is wrong. If your looking for blame you should be looking at the folk who allowed ecw and wcw to get into their own mess.

One of the reasons the wwe is not as good as it used to be as it has went full circle now and puts profit before wrestling. Many folk use the entertainment argument but its all about the balance sheet......sadly

oneofakind32

WCW and ECW went out of business for a reason. They were both hemorrhaging money! Vince was never going to buy up WCW contacts of guys who on ridiculous money, like Goldberg, Sting and Hogan. I suppose there was the possibility of having WCW in Raws time slot with a half assed roster but that would have been a disastrous move IMO. If want to know what it would have been like, just imagine if Smackdown now was called WCW. It would be the exact same. What ever name you put on the show if Vince Mc Mahon owns the brand you can bet your ass its going to be run the way he want it run. We've seen what he did with ECW and the more sucessfull (though ultimately doomed) attempt at an WCW style cruiser weight devision from 03-05

Bubs101

oneofakind32 wrote: »

WCW and ECW went out of business for a reason. They were both hemorrhaging money! Vince was never going to buy up WCW contacts of guys who on ridiculous money, like Goldberg, Sting and Hogan. I suppose there was the possibility of having WCW in Raws time slot with a half assed roster but that would have been a disastrous move IMO. If want to know what it would have been like, just imagine if Smackdown now was called WCW. It would be the exact same. What ever name you put on the show if Vince Mc Mahon owns the brand you can bet your ass its going to be run the way he want it run. We've seen what he did with ECW and the more sucessfull (though ultimately doomed) attempt at an WCW style cruiser weight devision from 03-05

Ah in fairness, WCW were actively encouraged to hemmorage the money by Turner in order to make them bigger than the WWE. That's not the reason they fell. I'm pretty sure it was because the lads who bought Turner networks just didn't want wrestling on TV and then they couldn't survive without it

flahavaj

Bubs101 wrote: »

Ah in fairness, WCW were actively encouraged to hemmorage the money by Turner in order to make them bigger than the WWE. That's not the reason they fell. I'm pretty sure it was because the lads who bought Turner networks just didn't want wrestling on TV and then they couldn't survive without it

Bubs101 in deliberately dubious opinion shocker.:pac:

davrho

Bubs101 wrote: »

Ah in fairness, WCW were actively encouraged to hemmorage the money by Turner in order to make them bigger than the WWE. That's not the reason they fell. I'm pretty sure it was because the lads who bought Turner networks just didn't want wrestling on TV and then they couldn't survive without it

So if it was making profit you reckon they would have ditched it?

Fozzy

davrho wrote: »

So if it was making profit you reckon they would have ditched it?

Yeah, they didn't like the association with pro wrestling. Turner was always loyal to it because it helped launch his first tv station

Red Sleeping Beauty

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

well the thing is, this thread was discussing the fact that Vince had considerd relauncing WCW under the WWF umberella and if he had not decided against that would you not think that those things might have gone differently? why would he bury Sting, Steiner etc if he wanted them to be headlining a brand of his in an attempt to bring in ratings and revenue.

Obviously he decided against giving WCW its own WWF show so he would probably be the first to say he killed WCW, infact he would probably be proud of that fact tbh.



as far as ECW is concerned, many many people have been raving about how good ECW has been this year. However you (and anyone else) need to stop comparing it to the old ECW, that is just a name now, its not extreme and tbh the WWE dont really promote it as that all that much atleast not extreme in the same manner i.e blood n bumps. ECW is now WWE's on air development program and it is very good at that but thats just my own personal opinion and because of when its on ill admit i dont get to see it enough.

On ECW there, I think Vince said that it's not a wise business decision to have wrestlers that you've invested money in taking crazy bumps in front of a thousand people on a TV show with low viewing numbers. And he was right.

In all fairness though, WWF's attitude era was totally nicked from ECW's edgy-ness. ECW was like the Sex Pistols to WWF's clean and neat prog rock out of touch with the audience. WWF introduced even more "drama" angles from '97 which looking back, were kinda ECW copies.

WCW wasn't able to get away with adding sex and more violence and racey stuff I suppose.

davrho

Fozzy wrote: »

Yeah, they didn't like the association with pro wrestling. Turner was always loyal to it because it helped launch his first tv station

Like or dislike corporations dont tend to cut off revenue streams.