scared about possible garda action

sherdydan · 21-09-2009 10:05pm #1

hi there,

on saturday night i was walking from my home into town ( a journey of about 3/4 of a mile) and as i was walking down a street that isnt in a particularly inviting part of the town i saw a group of 3 people walking up the street about 200 yards ahead, plain acting the maggot, they looked off their heads and were in the middle of the road shouting and roaring, one of them looked like they were getting particularly violent towards the other 2, who both looked like they were trying to get away from said person, i backed off a bit more, then saw one of them start shouting and roaring very loudly and incoherently and it looked like, (s)he was giving one of the other people a few digs, i straight away slipped into the nearest alleyway and rang the gardai. i told them all i knew and said what the situation looked like, i gave myself a few seconds afterwards to compose myself and carried on my journey down the street, as i knew the gardai were coming, so felt fairly safe to continue down the street. as i was carried on a bit more, i met the people i was concerned about, who were no longer acting the maggot, and the squad car coming down the street, who just carried on in the car. i then met my friend who had to pass them on the way and i asked him did he notice anything odd about them, which he said he didnt, also it turned out they were all girls (which ****ed up my original description of a guy and two girls) needless to say i felt like a bit of an idiot and carried on my day.

then yesterday evening, me and the same guy were hanging around outside when an unmarked squad car pulled up beside us. they then came out to us and straight away and asked for our names, which we gave, they then asked for our phones (which was all carried out in a very nerve wracking uncorteous manner i feel) as they said there had been a number of prank calls coming from the area, my friend gave his first, and she checked the call register, i then gave mine ( which i have to erase the call log from regularly as its a touch screen and regularly unlocks itself and decides to ring one of my last called numbers) which the gard didnt seem to happy with, she then asked had we seen anyone walking around the area recently, we gave her descriptions and rough directions and they got back in the car and drove off.

i just had to say all this as i feel it might be related to the call i made the day before, and am absoloutely s******g it to think that i may be getting into bother over trying my best to be a good citizen, i do realise my call the day before may have been a bit hasty but if something had of happened and i could have intervened some how and decided not to, i wouldnt be able to live with myself.

i know this i is all a bit long winded and im sorry, but really need to get it off my chest, anyone who has anything to add i will be most apreciative.

also if this is in the worng forum would the mod please move it for me, thanks in advance guys

eagle_&_bear · 21-09-2009 10:10pm

you did a good thing... that situation may have escalated. Plus that's why we have the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 - that is exactly what it is designed to deal with. So you should not fear.

As for the Gardai stopping and talking to you. Once you gave your name and did not lie to them... they can not touch you. As for your phone. - you should not have handed it over. They need a warrent to search your phone! But, sometimes it is better to waive these things and deal with it there and then. But from what you said, it doesn't appear like you did anything to warrant any further recourse from the Gardai

sherdydan · 21-09-2009 10:13pm

ohh i know they had no right to take my phone, but at that moment and place in time i decided to just hand it over. it was an invasion of my privacy and im pretty annoyed i gave it. i do feel slightly violated about the whole thing, and they were a bit intimidating i felt.

Stainless_Steel · 22-09-2009 7:54am

sherdydan wrote: »

ohh i know they had no right to take my phone, but at that moment and place in time i decided to just hand it over. it was an invasion of my privacy and im pretty annoyed i gave it. i do feel slightly violated about the whole thing, and they were a bit intimidating i felt.

You won't be the last person bullied by the gardai.

Don't worry - if the situation is how you tell it then you are in the clear.

Great investigating by the Gardai though - complaint of prank phone calls so lets check randomers phones in the street :rolleyes:

Trojan911 · 22-09-2009 9:40am

sherdydan wrote: »

i know this i is all a bit long winded and im sorry, but really need to get it off my chest, anyone who has anything to add i will be most apreciative.

You have nothing to fear as your intentions were good & honest. Fair play to you for your actions.

As for the phone incident, well what can I say, only another example of apparent oppressive conduct appearing on the Forum.

I can only suggest, if you are upset about it and violated as you state and want to take it further, then lodge a complaint with the Garda Ombudsman or speak to a solicitor for advice.

sherdydan · 22-09-2009 12:08pm

thanks a million everyone. and no i dont think il be getting in touch with the garda ombudsman or the likes as its a small enough town i live in, so id say if i did that our lovely men and women of the garda shicilony will be out for me for any possible little thing.

blackcoat · 22-09-2009 7:07pm

i have to say most of the replies here are an absolute joke.

op, no - you have nothing to fear. you did the right thing and you'll be in no trouble at all if your story is true. fair play to you for calling when you were concerned for anothers safety.
also, you were right to hand over your phone. you had nothing to fear so why would you not?? only an ignorant fool with a chip on his shoulder would start looking for a warrant in such a situation.

if they were uncorteous then thats not on at all, but maybe one of them recognised you from when they drove by in the car that night and thought you were behind what seemed to them to be a prank and perhaps other more sinister pranks as a result. after all, you said its a small down. then, satisfied that you were not, they gave your phone back to you. no big deal.

involve the ombudsman?? what a waste of time and the taxpayers money that would be.
people's attitudes towards the guards are shocking. no doubt because they have a petty grievance towards the guards about a time they got a speeding ticket ("even though i was only 5mph over the limit! they're just reaching quotas...pigs..." etc etc) its no wonder public order offences continue to be on the rise.
bottom line, right thinking, honest members of society have no reason to have such resentment towards guards in the majority of cases.

?Cee?view · 22-09-2009 7:16pm

Sorry Blackcoat,

But I'm at a complete loss to understand some aspects of your point of view here. And I'd like to consider myself "a right thinking, honest member of society", whatever that is.

Someone unlawfully took the OPs phone, checked their private details (call log), and you think it's unreasonable to object to that? I agree that the Ombudsman would be way over the top, but surely you can't condone the guards' actions here?

Surely the guards have no more right or power than a private citizen when they act outside the scope of their powers.

Our man in Havana · 22-09-2009 7:23pm

involve the ombudsman?? what a waste of time and the taxpayers money that would be.

Why? If the Gardaí can't obey their own rules who is going to sanction them?

blackcoat · 22-09-2009 7:24pm

churchview wrote: »

Sorry Blackcoat,

But I'm at a complete loss to understand some aspects of your point of view here. And I'd like to consider myself "a right thinking, honest member of society", whatever that is.

Someone unlawfully took the OPs phone, checked their private details (call log), and you think it's unreasonable to object to that? I agree that the Ombudsman would be way over the top, but surely you can't condone the guards' actions here?

Surely the guards have no more right or power than a private citizen when they act outside the scope of their powers.

hey churchview,

the term 'ordinary right thinking member of society' is one often used in court to describe what you might call your common, honest man and im sure you do qualify as one!

i just dont think the phone was unlawfully taken. the guard asked and he handed it over - no questions asked. had he grabbed it out of his hand thats another story. im sure the op would have been well able to object or make further enquiries if he wanted to but he didnt because he knew he had nothing to hide.

if a guard calls to your door and asks "can i come in?" and you say "yes, of course" then thats not unlawful entry! if he finds a dead body inside it wont be inadmissable as evidence due to the lack of a search warrant.
the exact same reasoning applies here - the op knew he had nothing to hide and that he could explain himself if necessary (he has a very good honest explanation).

i never fail to be stunned at peoples reaction to a person saying the co-operated with a guard....you should have done this, you should have done that etc etc. no, he did what any right thinking member of society would do - cooperate as long as its appropriate.

blackcoat · 22-09-2009 7:25pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

Why? If the Gardaí can't obey their own rules who is going to sanction them?

the ombudsman is a brilliant way of disciplining guards who are out of order. but in this case they weren't..at all.

?Cee?view · 22-09-2009 7:34pm

The difficulty here seems to be that the OP didn't feel that they had a choice to refuse to hand the phone over. Granted, the guard can't be blamed for that, but it seems logical that a stern "request" tends not to invite a refusal to comply, and those in authority are well aware of this.

Again, I have to reiterate, in my view the Guards' here acted in a somewhat untoward fashion, but, come on, the Ombudsman has bigger fish to fry. The OP is now clearly over this, and I'm sure the particular Guard has forgotten the incident at this stage. Bringing this to the Ombudsman won't improve his/her attitude.

blackcoat (and I'm presuming you're a Guard in asking this) - Are you trained in how to deal with people from a psychological point of view i.e. are you trained to adopt certain tones in certain situations? I've always wondered this.

...and sorry for going OT, but it does kind of relate...

sherdydan · 22-09-2009 7:40pm

churchview,

i fully agree with what you are saying, i am not bothered about going to the ombudsman, i just felt that the gardai were acting more like bullies, than what they are supposed to be, our "protectors" of a fashion. that is what really got on my tits, and i know that i didnt have to give my phone, now when i said "yea sure" and pulled it out of my pocket, she (the gard) was very grabby with it, and when she couldnt undo the keylock i went to do it for her she kept a firm grasp of it, like a school bully would do.

thats what i was particularly annoyed with, i co-operated with them in full and yet still felt like i was wrongly being treated like a criminal

?Cee?view · 22-09-2009 8:04pm

b'coat. I see from other posts that you're not a Guard. So ignore my question, sorry about that.

sherdydan - only way to look at this situation is to decide that the guard has an attitude problem. It's her problem, not yours, so it's not worth your while worrying about it.

Trojan911 · 22-09-2009 10:05pm

sherdydan wrote: »

churchview,

i fully agree with what you are saying, i am not bothered about going to the ombudsman, i just felt that the gardai were acting more like bullies, than what they are supposed to be, our "protectors" of a fashion. that is what really got on my tits, and i know that i didnt have to give my phone, now when i said "yea sure" and pulled it out of my pocket, she (the gard) was very grabby with it, and when she couldnt undo the keylock i went to do it for her she kept a firm grasp of it, like a school bully would do.

thats what i was particularly annoyed with, i co-operated with them in full and yet still felt like i was wrongly being treated like a criminal

So, by not doing anything about it, she is free to continue this "bullying" behaviour towards others.

blackcoat · 22-09-2009 10:28pm

churchview wrote: »

b'coat. I see from other posts that you're not a Guard. So ignore my question, sorry about that.

sherdydan - only way to look at this situation is to decide that the guard has an attitude problem. It's her problem, not yours, so it's not worth your while worrying about it.

you're right churchview - that guard probably did. i just hate the way some people automatically paint all guards with the same brush. there's never a discussion about the great work they do, of which there has been a great deal recently (the 20m euro worth of drug seizures which have seen cannabis become rarer than its been in years in ireland come to mind...).

and no, im not a guard. i just find it disheartening that so many peoples attitude is one of contempt without any real reason for it (just because...)
i was walking down shop st. in galway the other evening and 3 guards ran by me in the opposite direction. a huge amount of people sitting outside pubs or just walking around felt the need to whistle and roar at them. most of this is harmless enough but one man roared "run you fat b*****s".
they could have been on their way to help someone who was being assaulted, running after someone who had just stolen a woman's handbag (who could have been any of theirs mother or sister etc) or on their way to any other situation that they are putting themselves at risk to help others. yes, i know "its their job" - exactly, so just let them do it.

i wonder who these people will call for if they are ever in need of urgent help??

Trojan911 · 23-09-2009 7:47am

blackcoat wrote: »

involve the ombudsman?? what a waste of time and the taxpayers money that would be.

The Garda Ombudsman (GO) was brought in to deal with complaints from members of the public from Gardai who abuse their powers and the likes.

Decent hardworking members of AGS will welcome the GO as it keeps those, who put them in a bad light and causes the Service embarrassment, in check.

blackcoat wrote: »

bottom line, right thinking, honest members of society have no reason to have such resentment towards guards in the majority of cases.

Correct, and they also have the right to go about their daily business without fear or intimidation from the very people who are supposed to be enforcing the laws of the state.

When a member of the public abuses those laws they are punished, the same should apply to Gardai.

That's why the GO should be involved...

blackcoat · 23-09-2009 9:54am

Trojan911 wrote: »

The Garda Ombudsman (GO) was brought in to deal with complaints from members of the public from Gardai who abuse their powers and the likes.

Decent hardworking members of AGS will welcome the GO as it keeps those, who put them in a bad light and causes the Service embarrassment, in check.

Correct, and they also have the right to go about their daily business without fear or intimidation from the very people who are supposed to be enforcing the laws of the state.

When a member of the public abuses those laws they are punished, the same should apply to Gardai.

That's why the GO should be involved...

you obviously didnt read my other posts.
i already described the ombudsman as 'brilliant' and made clear that i agree with what you say.

as to your second point, you are correct again, in general, but not in relation to this incident.
did the guards see the OP at the scene of what they thought was a prank call? yes.
as a result did they have a reasonable suspicion to allow asking to see his phone? yes.
did he hand it over? yes.
did the take any unwarranted action against him? no.

ive already said that its awful if this particular guard was rude, but to involve the ombudsman because the guard was rude?? completely over the top.
i dont know about you in particular, but i can think of several people who'd jump to the same hasty conclusion but would say nothing if a barman, check-out assisstant, receptionist, secretary etc. treated them horribly. irish people are notorious for accepting poor standards of service. (eg. how many times have you been disappointed by somebody's attitude? how many times did you complain about it?)

you might say its worse when a guard does it because he works in the public sector - well so do nurses and i can think of endless of examples of seeing nurses act in the most unprofessional, discorteous manner. that said, some of them are absolutely brilliant at their job - same applies to the guards (except i can honestly say ive never personally been offended by a gardas conduct.)

blackcoat · 23-09-2009 9:56am

blackcoat wrote: »

you obviously didnt read my other posts.
i already described the ombudsman as 'brilliant' and made clear that i agree with what you say.

as to your second point, you are correct again, in general, but not in relation to this incident.
did the guards see the OP at the scene of what they thought was a prank call? yes.
as a result did they have a reasonable suspicion to allow asking to see his phone? yes.
did he hand it over? yes.
did the take any unwarranted action against him? no.

ive already said that its awful if this particular guard was rude, but to involve the ombudsman because the guard was rude?? completely over the top.
i dont know about you in particular, but i can think of several people who'd jump to the same hasty conclusion but would say nothing if a barman, check-out assisstant, receptionist, secretary etc. treated them horribly. irish people are notorious for accepting poor standards of service. (eg. how many times have you been disappointed by somebody's attitude? how many times did you complain about it?)

you might say its worse when a guard does it because he works in the public sector - well so do nurses and i can think of endless of examples of seeing nurses act in the most unprofessional, discorteous manner and there is nobody to make a genuine complaint to. that said, some of them are absolutely brilliant at their job - same applies to the guards (except i can honestly say ive never personally been offended by a gardas conduct.)

.

Trojan911 · 23-09-2009 5:04pm

blackcoat wrote: »

as to your second point, you are correct again, in general, but not in relation to this incident.
did the guards see the OP at the scene of what they thought was a prank call? yes.
as a result did they have a reasonable suspicion to allow asking to see his phone? yes.
did he hand it over? yes.
did the take any unwarranted action against him? no.

You can be well assured I did read your posts.

If the OP was suspected of making crank calls then the phone would have to be seized, phone service provider contacted for call traffic etc & suspect interviewed (not on the street). I, like the OP, clear my text messages immediately & call logs frequently. How was the officer to know what recent calls the OP had made from looking at his blank call log on the street? If she had had reasonable grounds in the first instance then the phone would have been seized and the appropriate action taken as stated above.

What the OP is also miffed about is that the way it was dealt with. The OP mentions bullying on more than one occasion and also

wrote:

"a very nerve wracking uncorteous manner i feel"

And also states

wrote:

"thats what i was particularly annoyed with, i co-operated with them in full and yet still felt like i was wrongly being treated like a criminal"

That, to me, merits a complaint, to you it doesn't. The more complaints for incivility the GO receives the more it will be flagged and then it should be addressed by Garda management and down the ranks and so on.

Let's put it this way, she will not lose her job if this complaint was upheld, it might , if anything, put manners on her. Depriving someone of their liberty for any amount of time is a serious issue to a lot of people, especially if they are innocent of any alleged offence and if an officer is abusing the powers given to them it can be very frustrating to those persons who are doing nothing more than going about their daily business.

OP Original Post #1 wrote:

then yesterday evening, me and the same guy were hanging around outside when an unmarked squad car pulled up beside us. they then came out to us and straight away and asked for our names, which we gave, they then asked for our phones (which was all carried out in a very nerve wracking uncorteous manner i feel) as they said there had been a number of prank calls coming from the area, my friend gave his first, and she checked the call register, i then gave mine ( which i have to erase the call log from regularly as its a touch screen and regularly unlocks itself and decides to ring one of my last called numbers) which the gard didnt seem to happy with, she then asked had we seen anyone walking around the area recently, we gave her descriptions and rough directions and they got back in the car and drove off.

Going by the OP's post, these are not the correct procedures. It appears she was “fishing” for evidence and trying to build her reasonable grounds. This is unlawful and their actions/excuses sound like a lot of old flannel. It is my opinion that the OP agreed to comply because he feared a backlash if he didn't.

Here are his own words:

wrote:

"and no i dont think il be getting in touch with the garda ombudsman or the likes as its a small enough town i live in, so id say if i did that our lovely men and women of the garda shicilony will be out for me for any possible little thing."

That to me is not the way law enforcement should be viewed or enforced & I strongly suspect it is not the view of AGS either.

We are both entitled to our opinions; however bear in mind, mine comes from experience from being in the game for eleven years as a Met Police Officer.

I think I'm done on this one. The OP has got his answers and appears to have made his decision.

All the best.

blackcoat · 23-09-2009 9:20pm

Trojan911 wrote: »

You can be well assured I did read your posts.

If the OP was suspected of making crank calls then the phone would have to be seized, phone service provider contacted for call traffic etc & suspect interviewed (not on the street). I, like the OP, clear my text messages immediately & call logs frequently. How was the officer to know what recent calls the OP had made from looking at his blank call log on the street? If she had had reasonable grounds in the first instance then the phone would have been seized and the appropriate action taken as stated above.

What the OP is also miffed about is that the way it was dealt with. The OP mentions bullying on more than one occasion and also And also states

That, to me, merits a complaint, to you it doesn't. The more complaints for incivility the GO receives the more it will be flagged and then it should be addressed by Garda management and down the ranks and so on.

Let's put it this way, she will not lose her job if this complaint was upheld, it might , if anything, put manners on her. Depriving someone of their liberty for any amount of time is a serious issue to a lot of people, especially if they are innocent of any alleged offence and if an officer is abusing the powers given to them it can be very frustrating to those persons who are doing nothing more than going about their daily business.

Going by the OP's post, these are not the correct procedures. It appears she was “fishing” for evidence and trying to build her reasonable grounds. This is unlawful and their actions/excuses sound like a lot of old flannel. It is my opinion that the OP agreed to comply because he feared a backlash if he didn't.

Here are his own words:

That to me is not the way law enforcement should be viewed or enforced & I strongly suspect it is not the view of AGS either.

We are both entitled to our opinions; however bear in mind, mine comes from experience from being in the game for eleven years as a Met Police Officer.

I think I'm done on this one. The OP has got his answers and appears to have made his decision.

All the best.

wow...given the fact that you have experience as a police officer im stunned at the lack of logic in your post.

yes - the guard probably was 'fishing' for info. its standard procedure to gather as much information as possible before taking more serious action so she thought she'd have a word with him - big deal.
she used her discretion and decided to approach the issue as she did ie. ask the op could she see the phone because they had got a prank call, see if he had dialled the station, saw that he hadnt, handed it back and that was that.
id imagine had she in fact seen the number dialled she would have asked him to explain himself and she would probably have accepted his explanation as its a good one. in another case i imagine she would have issued a warning as she probably knows what her boss would tell her if she presented him with a file for prosecution all over a prank call. a good talking to would suffice, especially in this case. (and again, if she was rude thats a shame but if wasn't for all the propoganda being spread about vengeful gardai the op would know that a letter to the superintendent would yield just as satisfactory results as going to the ombudsman)

compare that with your suggestion - take the op to the station, in broad day light in front of his friends in a 'small town, sieze the phone, trace calls, contact service providers etc etc. god it sounds like an over elaborate episode of CSI!!

it seems the MET and the gardai follow very different procedures.
im definitely done on this one.

Trojan911 · 24-09-2009 9:17am

blackcoat wrote: »

im definitely done on this one.

Good, because your post is nonsense. Your speculation is laughable and your experience is, well, there is none.....

Stainless_Steel · 24-09-2009 10:08am

Trojan911 wrote: »

Good, because your post is nonsense. Your speculation is laughable and your experience is, well, there is none.....

I agree.

Blackcoat, the Gardai are there to protect the citizens, not harass them!

If everyone shared your view we would be living in a police state. Have you no sense of a right to privacy?!

A complaint to the ombudsman, however, may be extreme in this case. If it was me I would go to the station and tell the superintendant about it. Assert yourself and show you know your rights: the garda in this case acted unlawfully.

blackcoat · 24-09-2009 11:41am

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

I agree.

Blackcoat, the Gardai are there to protect the citizens, not harass them!

If everyone shared your view we would be living in a police state. Have you no sense of a right to privacy?!

A complaint to the ombudsman, however, may be extreme in this case. If it was me I would go to the station and tell the superintendant about it. Assert yourself and show you know your rights: the garda in this case acted unlawfully.

"the garda in this case acted unlawfully" HOW!?
Q. can i see your phone?
A. yes
oh god..the injustice of it all..;) police state? ha!

it hardly amounts to harrassment when the op did infact make a call which when the guards arrived apperaed to be a prank.
its amazing how difficult it is for some of you to comprehend this. she had a reasonable suspicion that the op had made a prank call and so she sought to establish whether or not this was the case.
thats all that happened here. nobodys rights were violated.

"elvis is still alive" "9/11 was a conspiracy theory" "the moon landing was fake" "the guard acted unlawfully"...just saying something doesnt make it so! if the guard was rude, write to the superintendent.rudeness however isn't unlawful.

Stainless_Steel · 24-09-2009 3:48pm

blackcoat wrote: »

"the garda in this case acted unlawfully" HOW!?
Q. can i see your phone?
A. yes
oh god..the injustice of it all..;) police state? ha!

it hardly amounts to harrassment when the op did infact make a call which when the guards arrived apperaed to be a prank.
its amazing how difficult it is for some of you to comprehend this. she had a reasonable suspicion that the op had made a prank call and so she sought to establish whether or not this was the case.
thats all that happened here. nobodys rights were violated.

"elvis is still alive" "9/11 was a conspiracy theory" "the moon landing was fake" "the guard acted unlawfully"...just saying something doesnt make it so! if the guard was rude, write to the superintendent.rudeness however isn't unlawful.

The garda according to the OP was unpolite and using bully boy tactics to trick them into consent.

You claim the garda had reasonable suspicion. You are therefore suggesting reasonable suspicion for prank phone calling is based on the OP standing in a public place, which proves your posts are nonsense.

Then you talk about conspiracy theories

which has absolutely no relavence to the topic. You proabably don't know this, but unlawful activities by a garda is often a valid defence case in court, and not a conspiracy theory I'm afraid...

Above there was an ex police man telling you the garda was acting outside the scope of their job and being a bully. Yet you still post a ridiculous defence to the garda

I love the gardai (brother and father in law are members), but I despise the ones that use a person's vulnerability to buzz on their little power trip.

blackcoat · 24-09-2009 6:41pm

"trick them into consent" what is he, ten years old??

You claim the garda had reasonable suspicion. You are therefore suggesting reasonable suspicion for prank phone calling is based on the OP standing in a public place.

absolutely! if i was a guard and got called to the scene of what was meant to be an assault (or worse - given that he reported that a woman may be in difficulty) and saw a group of local youths standing around at that scene with nothing going on of course id suspect it was them who called. who wouldn't??

Then you talk about conspiracy theories which has absolutely no relavence to the topic.
i was merely proving the point that just because you say something is true, it doesn't make it so unless you back it up with fact. that went WAY over your head unfortunately....
to put it in simpler terms for you, you simply saying 'the garda acted unlawfully' doesnt make it true. in fact, s/he acted well within the law and simply asked to see the phone. nothing unlawful there.

and as for the other poster being an ex policeman, i fully respect that but you dont need to be an expert to know that the two forces operate differently. very differently.

Stainless_Steel · 24-09-2009 7:44pm

blackcoat wrote: »

"trick them into consent" what is he, ten years old??

You claim the garda had reasonable suspicion. You are therefore suggesting reasonable suspicion for prank phone calling is based on the OP standing in a public place.

absolutely! if i was a guard and got called to the scene of what was meant to be an assault (or worse - given that he reported that a woman may be in difficulty) and saw a group of local youths standing around at that scene with nothing going on of course id suspect it was them who called. who wouldn't??

Then you talk about conspiracy theories which has absolutely no relavence to the topic.
i was merely proving the point that just because you say something is true, it doesn't make it so unless you back it up with fact. that went WAY over your head unfortunately....
to put it in simpler terms for you, you simply saying 'the garda acted unlawfully' doesnt make it true. in fact, s/he acted well within the law and simply asked to see the phone. nothing unlawful there.

and as for the other poster being an ex policeman, i fully respect that but you dont need to be an expert to know that the two forces operate differently. very differently.

On the reasonable suspicion topic - read the OP. You will then see that the night the garda stopped the OP was the night after the incident when he called the station. Also it would be silly to assume he was stopped in the same vicinity. So, you are wrong there sorry. Therefore the garda had no lawful reason to search the OPs phone. Granted in this case it was lawful by the OPs consent but that was as a result of bully boy tactics.

The OPs age is irrelevant. It is clear that the OP was shaken by the incident, due to the gardas tone. Yes some people are better at asserting themselves with the gardai, but some gardai use a person's vulnerability and their limited knowledge of rights to abuse their power.

I've asked my garda brother would he be unpolite and ask a random person on the street for a look at their phone, given there have been prank calls to the station. He said apart from not agreeing with the ethics of it, he would get in trouble if the person complained.

You still think the garda was right?

spongeman · 24-09-2009 8:49pm

I would not have handed over the phone. Let them bring me to court and we can discuss it there, and how they tried to take it under false pretences.

Goodbye promotion.

spongeman · 24-09-2009 8:50pm

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

On the reasonable suspicion topic - read the OP. You will then see that the night the garda stopped the OP was the night after the incident when he called the station. Also it would be silly to assume he was stopped in the same vicinity. So, you are wrong there sorry. Therefore the garda had no lawful reason to search the OPs phone. Granted in this case it was lawful by the OPs consent but that was as a result of bully boy tactics.

The OPs age is irrelevant. It is clear that the OP was shaken by the incident, due to the gardas tone. Yes some people are better at asserting themselves with the gardai, but some gardai use a person's vulnerability and their limited knowledge of rights to abuse their power.

I've asked my garda brother would he be unpolite and ask a random person on the street for a look at their phone, given there have been prank calls to the station. He said apart from not agreeing with the ethics of it, he would get in trouble if the person complained.

You still think the garda was right?

Good post. Hear,Hear

blackcoat · 24-09-2009 10:52pm

On the reasonable suspicion topic - read the OP. You will then see that the night the garda stopped the OP was the night after the incident when he called the station. Also it would be silly to assume he was stopped in the same vicinity. So, you are wrong there sorry.
oh dear, you seem to be having difficulty following things (again).
the guard stopped him the next day - correct. however, the guards saw him at the scene the night of the incident and as its a 'small town' i presume one of them recognised the op and then, on seeing him the next day (or however long later it was) approached him about the incident with a well founded suspicion that the op was involved. so no, i'm not "wrong there" sorry

I've asked my garda brother would he be unpolite and ask a random person on the street for a look at their phone, given there have been prank calls to the station. He said apart from not agreeing with the ethics of it, he would get in trouble if the person complained.

uh, ive already said on numerous occasions (go back and count them if you want) that i believe the op when he says the garda was rude/impolite or however you want to describe this.
however, what ive been trying to explain to some of you is that being rude (while disappointing to see in a garda) is not ''unlawful''. thats why i recommended writing to the local super. if the op felt strongly about it. getting a solicitor, going to the ombudsman etc. is completely over the top in this case.
also, she hardly asked a 'random' person given the fact that the op had been seen at the scene.

You still think the garda was right?
to be rude? no - and ive continually stressed that she shouldn't have been and that the op should contact a more senior member.
to look at the phone? yes. i believe she chose the preferable course of action compared with another posters ludicrous suggestions.

so there you have it once again, my opinion on this fairly innocuous incident.
try as you might, youre not going to be able to find any 'unlawful' activity on the part of the guard involved to create the opportunity to bit*h about a very small minority of substandard gardai in an otherwise excellent police force.

scared about possible garda action

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