Kimi back to McLaren for 2010 ..!!

vectra

Kimi Raikkonen has signed an "outline agreement" to kick off a second tenure with the McLaren team beginning next season, the Mirror newspaper reported on Sunday.

Full story here >>Kimi to McLaren

It is a move I would be thrilled with if it happens.

Top Dog

This should get the ball rolling if true.

Alonso to Ferrari, Rosberg to Brawn, Kubica to Renault?

lord lucan

Top Dog wrote: »

This should get the ball rolling if true.

Alonso to Ferrari, Rosberg to Brawn, Kubica to Renault?

Methinks the wheeling and dealing will begin in earnest once the FIA make a ruling on the Renault case. Raikkonen to Mclaren actually sounds plausible though.

Frank Bullitt

The Mirror arent the most reliable when it comes to these things,wonder how he would do there though with Hamilton?

Slutmonkey57b

Kimi is one of the few drivers who won't be affected by Lewis's head games. I'm sure Lewis will do his best to get favourable treatment over him, but whether that would wash out is another matter.

EvilMonkey

My favourite driver, my least favourite team, ahhh

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

The Mirror arent the most reliable when it comes to these things,wonder how he would do there though with Hamilton?

That wouldnt affect kimi,,
He arrives.. Drives and goes home.. No team mate will ever bother or upset him

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Kimi is one of the few drivers who won't be affected by Lewis's head games. I'm sure Lewis will do his best to get favourable treatment over him, but whether that would wash out is another matter.

there are 3 words that say he will not get more favourable treatment over kimi.
and they are
"Ron is Gone"

EvilMonkey wrote: »

My favourite driver, my least favourite team, ahhh

Yes and no.
Kimi favourite driver.. Most certainly yes with me
McLaren.. They are not a bad team as they are always towards the front ( not including early this year ) and I think the Mclaren perfectly suits kimi whereas the Ferrari does not.

EvilMonkey

vectra wrote: »

That wouldnt affect kimi,,
He arrives.. Drives and goes home.. No team mate will ever bother or upset him

If Hamilton gets new parts first it might, he gets them first at Ferrari.

vectra wrote: »

there are 3 words that say he will not get more favourable treatment over kimi.
and they are
"Ron is Gone"

It was Ron that hired him in the first place and gave him no1, he only stopped talking to kimi when he said he was going to Ferrari.

vectra wrote: »

Yes and no.
Kimi favourite driver.. Most certainly yes with me
McLaren.. They are not a bad team as they are always towards the front ( not including early this year ) and I think the Mclaren perfectly suits kimi whereas the Ferrari does not.

And yet he won a WDC with Ferrari and not with Mclaren

Its a good move for Kimi he is staying in a top team.

54kroc

It would be a great move for kimi but would Mclaren pay him what he wants?

EvilMonkey

cork45 wrote: »

It would be a great move for kimi but would Mclaren pay him what he wants?

Ferrari will be paying him to get Alonso

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

If Hamilton gets new parts first it might, he gets them first at Ferrari.

Kimi got the new chassis first as it was designed specifically with himin mind as he was heavier than Massa and needed the weight reduction.
I still cannot see kimi getting upset if Hamilton got them first.

EvilMonkey wrote: »

It was Ron that hired him in the first place and gave him no1, he only stopped talking to kimi when he said he was going to Ferrari.

If Ron was still there with Kimi & Lewis driving.. who would the favourite be?:rolleyes:

EvilMonkey wrote: »

And yet he won a WDC with Ferrari and not with Mclaren

Thanks to Massa as much as I hate to admit it

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Its a good move for Kimi he is staying in a top team.

I certainly hope it is true anyway
Either McLaren or Brawn

Fabio

I think he's a driver who would fit the atmosphere of that team. He's just not emotional enough for Ferrari, whenever I see him on the podium in the red with no real smile it just cracks me up because Ferrari drivers have always had a bit of emotion, even Schumi had it.

Best of luck to him at McLaren if this is true.

Alonso as a Ferrari driver then (nice match up there I think), Kimi and Ham at McLaren, Kubica to Brawn no?

Kevski

Have a look at the original article in the mirror - http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/motorsport/2009/09/20/kimi-raikkonen-wanted-by-mclaren-115875-21686573/

Lewis Hamilton faces the scrap of his life next season if McLaren pull off plans to sign Ferrari ace Kimi Raikkonen.

Paddock sources say the Finn, 29, has signed an outline agreement to return to the car he won the world title with in 2007.

But first he has to settle a dispute with his current employers. He is refusing to step down unless he is paid all of his 2010 £30m salary.

The deal could explain McLaren's increasingly tense relationship with engine supplier Mercedes, who wanted German Nico Rosberg in the car.

Paddock sources say the Finn, 29, has signed an outline agreement to return to the car he won the world title with in 2007.

So he's going to race the Ferrari F2007 for McLaren next year then? Gutter Journalism at its finest.

smooch71

As a Ferrari fan first and a Kimi fan second, I would be sorry to see him go to the dullest, most "grey", boring team in Formula 1. They're totally wrapped up in Hamilton right now.

But if the consolation is that Ferrari get Alonso who realistically speaking is the best, most complete and consistant driver in F1?

Then, here's your ticket Kimi...

smooch71

Fabio wrote: »

Alonso as a Ferrari driver then (nice match up there I think), Kimi and Ham at McLaren, Kubica to Brawn no?

If Kimi goes, it'll be Kubica to Renault if they're still in it.

Mercedes really want Rosberg in the McLaren, not Raikkonen but if McLaren dig the heels in, Rosberg will go to Brawn.

Rubens could be a champion without a job at the end of the season!

vectra

smooch71 wrote: »

As a Ferrari fan first and a Kimi fan second, I would be sorry to see him go to the dullest, most "grey", boring team in Formula 1. They're totally wrapped up in Hamilton right now.

But if the consolation is that Ferrari get Alonso who realistically speaking is the best, most complete and consistant driver in F1?

Then, here's your ticket Kimi...

Dont start that rubbish for gods sake.:rolleyes:

How can he be the "Most Consistant".. What has he done over the last 2 seasons ?
How many points has he scored compared to Kimi over the last 3 seasons.
I hate when People Make a god out of Alonso just because he had the best car in 05 and by sheer luck in 06

smooch71

vectra wrote: »

Dont start that rubbish for gods sake.:rolleyes:

How can he be the "Most Consistant".. What has he done over the last 2 seasons ?
How many points has he scored compared to Kimi over the last 3 seasons.
I hate when People Make a god out of Alonso just because he had the best car in 05 and by sheer luck in 06

Sorry, didn't realise you were the only one allowed to voice an opinion.

I didn't refer to him as a god and don't you start that "sheer luck" rubbish.

What Alonso has done over the last two seasons is never give up. Even with a crap car. That's the sign of the most consistant driver. If you can't see beyond Kimi Raikkonen (who by the way I've admired since he first jumped in a car) then you have a very blinkered view of things.

thegoth

vectra wrote: »

Dont start that rubbish for gods sake.:rolleyes:

How can he be the "Most Consistant".. What has he done over the last 2 seasons ?
How many points has he scored compared to Kimi over the last 3 seasons.
I hate when People Make a god out of Alonso just because he had the best car in 05 and by sheer luck in 06

Vectra. Your knowledge of F1 amazes me. Please explain to me how Alonso was supposed to match Kimi's results in the last few years considering Alonso had a dog of a car? I always thought you can only judge drivers on how they perform against their teammates. Alonso has done very very well against every teammate he ever had. Maybe F1 has become a one car series unknown to me, where all cars are equal ?

vectra

Somebody please tell me that the F60 is superior to this years Renault,
Then explain to me in what way it is better.
2 rookies drove alongside Alonso and did ok for Rookies

2 experienced driVers stepped into the F60 and look at them .. Pathetic to be honest...Proves that it is probably the most difficult car to drive on the grid.
Now explain to me.
How Come Kimi is beating the socks off most of the field in this dog of a car??
One word
"CONSISTANCY"

thegoth wrote: »

Alonso has done very very well against every teammate he ever had.

And his experienced teamates were???

smooch71

vectra wrote: »

Somebody please tell me that the F60 is superior to this years Renault,
Then explain to me in what way it is better.
2 rookies drove alongside Alonso and did ok for Rookies

2 experienced driVers stepped into the F60 and look at them .. Pathetic to be honest...Proves that it is probably the most difficult car to drive on the grid.
Now explain to me.
How Come Kimi is beating the socks off most of the field in this dog of a car??
One word
"CONSISTANCY"



And his experienced teamates were???

The F60 is probably better than the Renault in every conceivable way.

And cars change from track to track and as the season goes on.
Neither of Alonos teammates have finished in the points so if you consider that ok, then maybe they should work for you.

Unfortunately due to Massa's accident we'll never know how he would have fared out as the season went on but it has to be said he beat the socks of Kimi last year in the same car.

So, answer this, yes or no, is Massa a better driver than Kimi??

Biro

vectra wrote: »

Somebody please tell me that the F60 is superior to this years Renault,
Then explain to me in what way it is better.
2 rookies drove alongside Alonso and did ok for Rookies

2 experienced driVers stepped into the F60 and look at them .. Pathetic to be honest...Proves that it is probably the most difficult car to drive on the grid.
Now explain to me.
How Come Kimi is beating the socks off most of the field in this dog of a car??
One word
"CONSISTANCY"



And his experienced teamates were???

I'm a fan of Kimi's talents, but explain this to me: How can your "Mr. Consistant" be beaten repeatedly last year in the same car as Massa? And how was he beaten this year by Massa up until Massa had the accident? That doesn't sound very consistant to me.

thegoth

Two ponits with respect to your Mr. Consistancy

1) in 2008 Kimi was consistently beaten by Massa

2) Until Massa was injured this year, Kimi was again consistently beaten by him

Mr. Consistancy. Your right, but consistancy is not always a good thing !!

Just read the post above this. Will post anyway :-)

vectra

Go on guys
give it your best shot
Bring in the cavalry

When were we discussing Massa??

I was comparing Kimi to Alonso :rolleyes:

Ghost Train

Do like Kimi and glad to see him go back to McLaren, as opposed to leaving the sport. Will be interesting to see how he does against Hamilton. Think it could be close between them and hopefully there will be some racing between them and both can motivate themselves to win races. Alonso, Massa and Ferrari, looking forward to seeing how the dynamic of the team is and how it all works out

thegoth

We are using Massa to counter your statement below, which is false, as Massa has consistently beaten Kimi in the same car for the last two seasons.

"How Come Kimi is beating the socks off most of the field in this dog of a car??
One word
"CONSISTANCY"

Now I am a Kimi fan, but I think he is way over rated. I think it is at best the 3rd best driver is F1 at the moment. This is assuming he is better than Massa, which the results over the last 2 seasons suggest he isnt.

I would have the top two drivers in F1 at the moment as

1) Alonso
2) Lewis
3) Maybe Kimi, Massa, Rosberg. Not sure

I would love to see Kimi against Lewis. I would want Kimi to beat him, but I will put my cards on the table and say I think Lewis would get the upper hand

I remember at the start of the season I posted something here saying I thought that Webber would very closely match Vettel, and by the end of the year, there would be very little between them. Alot of people ( 90%) of people thought I had lost the plot but all I said was unlike most things debated here, we will know the answer in 9 months and all indicators are that by years end, both drivers will be within a few points of each other.

I hope we get the same chance to see Kimi and Lewis in the same team, as I find this debates about which drivers are better than others when they have not been teammates very frustrating

smooch71

vectra wrote: »

Go on guys
give it your best shot
Bring in the cavalry

When were we discussing Massa??

I was comparing Kimi to Alonso :rolleyes:

Massa form last years proves Raikkonen's lack of consistancy.

Fact.

vectra

thegoth wrote: »

We are using Massa to counter your statement below, which is false, as Massa has consistently beaten Kimi in the same car for the last two seasons.

Ok then
Counter state this then
How long is Massa driving for Ferrari?
Kimi arrives and takes the title
Who beat who??

smooch71 wrote: »

Massa form last years proves Raikkonen's lack of consistancy.
Fact.

Massa failed to take the crown with all the chances he got ..
Failed
FACT..!!

thegoth

vectra wrote: »

Ok then
Counter state this then
How long is Massa driving for Ferrari?
Kimi arrives and takes the title
Who beat who??



Massa failed to take the crown with all the chances he got ..
Failed
FACT..!!

Firstly I'm not disputing the fact that Kimi got the better of Massa 1 our of 3 seasons, but Massa has gotten the better of Kimi for the last 2. This counters your argument that Kimi consistantly beats almost everyone on the grid

Secondly Kimi had the same chances as Massa last season. They had the same car with the same equipment. Luck plays a part in these things. Had the rain came 60 seconds later, Massa would be champion. Had Glock changed to Wets, Massa would be champion. Had Renault not fixed the result in Singapore and cost Massa 10 ponits, he would have been world champion. If you re ran then last few races of 2007 10 times, 9 times out of 10, Kimi would not be world champion. Thats racing

vectra

thegoth wrote: »

Firstly I'm not disputing the fact that Kimi got the better of Massa 1 our of 3 seasons, but Massa has gotten the better of Kimi for the last 2. This counters your argument that Kimi consistantly beats almost everyone on the grid

Stop right there.
I did not say Kimi was beating the whole field.
I said Kimi was beating the REST of the field.

I dont know how you view a driver but my idea of a drivers abilities are by becoming WDC which Kimi has and Massa has not even though he is way more familiar with the Ferrari team.
You statement counters nothing.

thegoth wrote: »

Secondly Kimi had the same chances as Massa last season. They had the same car with the same equipment. Luck plays a part in these things. Had the rain came 60 seconds later, Massa would be champion. Had Glock changed to Wets, Massa would be champion. Had Renault not fixed the result in Singapore and cost Massa 10 ponits, he would have been world champion. If you re ran then last few races of 2007 10 times, 9 times out of 10, Kimi would not be world champion. Thats racing

If's and But's are of no use.

thegoth

I would suggest that not only does Massa fall into the category of "rest of the field", he is the most important person in that category as he has the same equipment as Kimi. If you but Kimi in a Toro Rossa and Luco Badorer in a Brawn and Badorer beat Kimi, is Badorer a better driver ? No. Why not? Because you can only compare drivers in the same equipment. Bottom line. Kimi has not beaten his teammate over the last two seasons.

So ifs and buts are of no use. Emmmm. Imagine if you were running the 100m sprint in the olympics. You were winning by 5m with 2 seconds to go. All of a sudden someone runs in from the crowd and tackles you from the side. You fall to the ground losing the race. I BET you would use the word "but" of "if" after that to fight your case, and you would be right.

Fact is Massa would have picked up 10 points instead of 0 in Singapore IF Reanault hadnt fixed the race. Now I'm not saying that Lewis whuold be striped of the title or anything like it. These things happen every year, but if you only look at results or championships at the end of a season without analysing how things happended then you your views may not be as well informed as they need to by. This is why most team bosses analyse all drivers on a Monday, taking into account variables and unexpected incidents that happened to them during the race

Sconsey

I hope Kimi keeps his eye on this year for now, I've a bet with a friend that he will score more points than Hamilton this season!

As regards the debate going on above...if Kimi motivates himself at McLaren he could out-perform Hamilton, personaly I think Kimi is more of a natural than Hamilton, but consistency has been lacking these last few years (I know, I've been betting on him for too long now:mad:).

thegoth

Like I said, I think it would be Lewis. BTW, I'm not a Lewis fan.

Cant understand why McLaren want 2 top drivers to take points from each other. Bad move IMO if they want to mount a serious drivers title battle

EvilMonkey

There is not much difference between Massa and Kimi's driving ability, the last 3 years have shown that. Kimi shades it by a fraction in my opinion, if Massa was still racing i reckon they would have finished similarly for the rest of the season, I cant say who would have done better but Massa did get to grips with the car and first and scored better in the first half of the season.

The other way to look it is Kimi started doing well when his closely matched team mate was removed? So how will he cope with another closely matched team mate, I hope he kicked his arse :cool:

thegoth wrote: »

Like I said, I think it would be Lewis. BTW, I'm not a Lewis fan.

Cant understand why McLaren want 2 top drivers to take points from each other. Bad move IMO if they want to mount a serious drivers title battle

I think in future if they or anyone want to win constructor titles(Which is exactly what they want) they need 2 strong drivers scoring maximum points. Look at the team that will win it this year and Ferrari who win it the rest of the time.

Firewalkwithme

If you want to talk about consistency and overall ability in the Alonso vs. Raikkonen debate then numbers don't lie. Alonso is the clear winner based on these figures but some people will choose to simply ignore the facts.

Alonso

Races 136 (135 starts)
Championships 2 (2005, 2006)
Wins 21
Podiums 52
Career points 571
Pole positions 18
Fastest laps 12

Average points per race start: 4.23


Raikkonen

Races 153 (152 starts)
Championships 1 (2007)
Wins 18
Podiums 62
Career points 571
Pole positions 16
Fastest laps 35

Average points per race start: 3.76

With 16 fewer race starts than Raikkonen and a full season driving the hopeless Minardi from which he scored 0 points, Alonso still has more championships, wins, pole positions and a higher average points per race than Raikkonen.



Alonso vs. Teammate

2001 - Minardi - Tied on 0 points with both teammates
2003 - Renault - 55 points for Alonso vs. 33 for Trulli
2004 - Renault - 59 points for Alonso vs. 46 for Trulli
2005 - Renault - 133 points for Alonso vs. 58 for Fisichella
2006 - Renault - 134 points for Alonso vs. 72 for Fisichella
2007 - McLaren - Tied on 109 points with Hamilton
2008 - Renault - 80 points for Alonso vs. 19 for Piquet
2009 - Renault - 20 points for Alonso vs. 0 for Piquet and Grosjean (to date)

Alonso has beaten his teammates 6 times and tied 2 times out of 8 seasons. He has never been outscored by a teammate.


Raikkonen vs. Teammate

2001 - Sauber - 9 points for Raikkonen vs. 12 for Heidfeld
2002 - McLaren - 24 points for Raikkonen vs. 41 for Coulthard
2003 - McLaren - 91 points for Raikkonen vs. 51 for Coulthard
2004 - McLaren - 45 points for Raikkonen vs. 24 for Coulthard
2005 - McLaren - 112 points for Raikkonen vs. 60 for Montoya, 4 for De La Rosa, 6 for Wurz
2006 - McLaren - 65 points for Raikkonen vs. 26 for Montoya, 19 for De la Rosa
2007 - Ferrari - 110 points for Raikkonen vs. 94 for Massa
2008 - Ferrari - 75 points for Raikkonen vs. 97 for Massa
2009 - Ferrari - 40 points for Raikkonen vs. 22 for Massa (to date - note Massa was ahead before his freak accident but I will be generous to Kimi and say he wins since he needs some help here)

Raikkonen has beaten his teammate 6 times and lost 3 times out of 9 seasons.

amacachi

Constructors' points is what brings the prizemoney, and I'd take a guess that that's what Mclaren are after for the next few years after the 100million and this disasterous start to this year.

smooch71

vectra wrote: »

Ok then
Counter state this then
How long is Massa driving for Ferrari?
Kimi arrives and takes the title
Who beat who??

And then was out performed the following year by Massa. That's not consistancy, that's INCONSISTANCY.

You've just countered your own argument

Nobody is saying Kimi is crap. He's an outstanding driver, but he is not consistant.

thegoth

Excellent post cartoon head, especially when comparing both drivers against team mates, which is all you can really do. You could have a driver like Michael Schmuacher who, through bad judgement, may have spend his entire careers at wrong teams at wrong times. It may never have run a racen gotten a pole, or fastest lap, never mind a championship, so if you looked at those metrics, he would appear normal, but if you compared him to his team mates, you would see something special.

One of the best, well researched posts I have seen here

vectra

thegoth wrote: »

. Kimi has not beaten his teammate over the last two seasons.

So ifs and buts are of no use.

Hold on
Kimi beat Massa to a wdc
Lewis Beat Massa 2 years running
Alonso has Beaten Massa.
What does that say about Massa?
Again
My original post was Alonso is not the be all and end all that everyone thinks he is.
Best thing is
we all have our own views.
Lets see what happens if and when there is a shuffle around next year

thegoth

Vectra. You cannot directly compare drivers in different teams in different cars. Its like comparing you driving around a track in a Ferrari 430 compared to someone else in a corolla. Cars from different teams are not the same.
Please say you understand that.

I want to see Lewis and Kimi in the same team next year. Come on.

vectra

thegoth wrote: »

Vectra. You cannot directly compare drivers in different teams in different cars. Its like comparing you driving around a track in a Ferrari 430 compared to someone else in a corolla. Cars from different teams are not the same.
Please say you understand that.

I want to see Lewis and Kimi in the same team next year. Come on.

That is a stupid statement
have you not noticed how close these cars are recently?
especially this year
OK then
how about this
Fisi put Kimi under pressure in Spa in a force india car
Where was Fisi in Monza in an identical car to Kimi ?

Goes to show exactly how difficult it is to perform in the F60.. Not too unsimilar to the renault of this year.

Dont panic
Like I said
time will tell :cool:

I also want Kimi in the same car as Lewis next year
And what happens if Kimi beats the socks off lewis..
Where would that put Alonso.?
Oh
I forgot
Lewis was favoured over Alonso wasnt he

thegoth

They are different cars. Thats all I'm saying

EvilMonkey

vectra wrote: »

Fisi put Kimi under pressure in Spa in a force india car
Where was Fisi in Monza in an identical car to Kimi ?

Goes to show exactly how difficult it is to perform in the F60.. Not too unsimilar to the renault of this year.

I think it shows it takes time to get used to a new car especially a kers car, it took Massa and Kimi time too.

Biro

vectra wrote: »

Stop right there.
I did not say Kimi was beating the whole field.
I said Kimi was beating the REST of the field.

I dont know how you view a driver but my idea of a drivers abilities are by becoming WDC which Kimi has and Massa has not even though he is way more familiar with the Ferrari team.
You statement counters nothing.




If's and But's are of no use.

You're grabbing at straws. So Damon Hill was a better driver than Kimi up until 2007? And still is a better driver than Massa today?

Firewalkwithme

Biro wrote: »

You're grabbing at straws. So Damon Hill was a better driver than Kimi up until 2007? And still is a better driver than Massa today?

Arguments based on facts, reason and logic have no place in Vectra's world. Hence why he ignored my detailed post that clearly demonstrated he was wrong to claim Raikkonen is more consistent than Alonso

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

Stop right there.
I did not say Kimi was beating the whole field.
I said Kimi was beating the REST of the field.

Thats more or less the same thing.

Kimi is good,but only when he wants to,this year he has had a bit of luck on his side in the form of KERS.

And if we are going for consistency then its neither Kimi or Alonso,its Rosberg.

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I think it shows it takes time to get used to a new car especially a kers car, it took Massa and Kimi time too.

Yeah
I gues you are spot on there
Look how long it took Liuzzi to get used to the force india car.
A full lap

EvilMonkey

vectra wrote: »

Yeah
I gues you are spot on there
Look how long it took Liuzzi to get used to the force india car.
A full lap

When did force India install KERS?

vectra

EvilMonkey wrote: »

When did force India install KERS?

Kers or no Kers.
A car is a car..

vectra

Biro wrote: »

You're grabbing at straws. So Damon Hill was a better driver than Kimi up until 2007? And still is a better driver than Massa today?

So tell me
according to your logic a team pays big money for a driver just to gain points.?

I reckon they want the best to score titles.
But hey
Thats just me

vectra

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

If you want to talk about consistency and overall ability in the Alonso vs. Raikkonen debate then numbers don't lie. Alonso is the clear winner based on these figures but some people will choose to simply ignore the facts.

Alonso

Races 136 (135 starts)
Championships 2 (2005, 2006)
Wins 21
Podiums 52
Career points 571
Pole positions 18
Fastest laps 12

Average points per race start: 4.23


Raikkonen

Races 153 (152 starts)
Championships 1 (2007)
Wins 18
Podiums 62
Career points 571
Pole positions 16
Fastest laps 35

Average points per race start: 3.76

With 16 fewer race starts than Raikkonen and a full season driving the hopeless Minardi from which he scored 0 points, Alonso still has more championships, wins, pole positions and a higher average points per race than Raikkonen.



Alonso vs. Teammate

2001 - Minardi - Tied on 0 points with both teammates
2003 - Renault - 55 points for Alonso vs. 33 for Trulli
2004 - Renault - 59 points for Alonso vs. 46 for Trulli
2005 - Renault - 133 points for Alonso vs. 58 for Fisichella
2006 - Renault - 134 points for Alonso vs. 72 for Fisichella
2007 - McLaren - Tied on 109 points with Hamilton
2008 - Renault - 80 points for Alonso vs. 19 for Piquet
2009 - Renault - 20 points for Alonso vs. 0 for Piquet and Grosjean (to date)

Alonso has beaten his teammates 6 times and tied 2 times out of 8 seasons. He has never been outscored by a teammate.


Raikkonen vs. Teammate

2001 - Sauber - 9 points for Raikkonen vs. 12 for Heidfeld
2002 - McLaren - 24 points for Raikkonen vs. 41 for Coulthard
2003 - McLaren - 91 points for Raikkonen vs. 51 for Coulthard
2004 - McLaren - 45 points for Raikkonen vs. 24 for Coulthard
2005 - McLaren - 112 points for Raikkonen vs. 60 for Montoya, 4 for De La Rosa, 6 for Wurz
2006 - McLaren - 65 points for Raikkonen vs. 26 for Montoya, 19 for De la Rosa
2007 - Ferrari - 110 points for Raikkonen vs. 94 for Massa
2008 - Ferrari - 75 points for Raikkonen vs. 97 for Massa
2009 - Ferrari - 40 points for Raikkonen vs. 22 for Massa (to date - note Massa was ahead before his freak accident but I will be generous to Kimi and say he wins since he needs some help here)

Raikkonen has beaten his teammate 6 times and lost 3 times out of 9 seasons.

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Arguments based on facts, reason and logic have no place in Vectra's world. Hence why he ignored my detailed post that clearly demonstrated he was wrong to claim Raikkonen is more consistent than Alonso

Not ignoring your post at all bud.

Lets see.

OK
Alonso has about an average of half a point over Kimi but Seeing as you lot bring Massa into it let compare Alonso with Schuie.
No?
Ok

Right
3.76 points Vs 4.23

Alonso outscored him there
Now for the law of averages with teammates :rolleyes:


2001 - Minardi - Tied on 0 points with both teammates
2003 - Renault - 55 points for Alonso vs. 33 for Trulli
2004 - Renault - 59 points for Alonso vs. 46 for Trulli
2005 - Renault - 133 points for Alonso vs. 58 for Fisichella
2006 - Renault - 134 points for Alonso vs. 72 for Fisichella
2007 - McLaren - Tied on 109 points with Hamilton
2008 - Renault - 80 points for Alonso vs. 19 for Piquet
2009 - Renault - 20 points for Alonso vs. 0 for Piquet and Grosjean (to date)

Alonso has beaten his teammates 6 times and tied 2 times out of 8 seasons. He has never been outscored by a teammate.


Raikkonen vs. Teammate

2001 - Sauber - 9 points for Raikkonen vs. 12 for Heidfeld
2002 - McLaren - 24 points for Raikkonen vs. 41 for Coulthard
2003 - McLaren - 91 points for Raikkonen vs. 51 for Coulthard
2004 - McLaren - 45 points for Raikkonen vs. 24 for Coulthard
2005 - McLaren - 112 points for Raikkonen vs. 60 for Montoya, 4 for De La Rosa, 6 for Wurz
2006 - McLaren - 65 points for Raikkonen vs. 26 for Montoya, 19 for De la Rosa
2007 - Ferrari - 110 points for Raikkonen vs. 94 for Massa
2008 - Ferrari - 75 points for Raikkonen vs. 97 for Massa
2009 - Ferrari - 40 points for Raikkonen vs. 22 for Massa (to date - note Massa was ahead before his freak accident but I will be generous to Kimi and say he wins since he needs some help here)

In 2001 I see you "conveniently" left out the names of Alonsos teammates.

Tarso Marques & Alex Yoong :rolleyes:
Who are they I hear you say
To be fair to Kimi there now, Those guys were no contest.
Kimi was up against Quick Nick

03/04
Alonso Vs Trulli
Kimi Vs Coulthard

I would rate Coulthard higher than Mr Quali.

05
Kimi wiped the floor with every teammate he had
Alonso won because of tyre issues with Ferrari
But he won. well done

06
Kimi still beat his teamates
Alonso won well done again

07
Kimi Vs Massa << Better driver than Lewis then
Kimi takes the title

Alonso against a rookie and couldnt beat him

08
Kimi Vs Massa,, Not much between them
Alonso Vs Piquet
If he failed to beat him then he should get kicked

09
Repeat of 08

So
I still dont really see what all the hype with alonso is.He is not unbeatable as was Schumacher.. ( I know it did happen but not often )

So all in all I dont really see any difference between Alonso and Kimi
Roll on next year
Kimi back in his "hot seat" and Alonso in the Ferrari
oh
I forgot
Give Alonso time to adjust I suppose :rolleyes:

Slutmonkey57b

Again, Vectra proves that it's a waste of time attempting a logical or reasoned discussion. There was a lot between Kimi and Massa the past 2 years, namely points, results, and effort. Kimi would not have won if there hadn't been so much fighting between Lewis and Fernando, end of.
Kimi is Good. He will do Well at McLaren. That is All.