Sexual harassment in the workplace (and elsewhere)

Dudess

Has anyone (who's comfortable with saying so) ever experienced it?
Generally speaking, what do people consider to be crossing the line?

In terms of the verbal: my sense of humour can be very bawdy, and any "raunchy" comments directed towards me... well it would take an awful lot to make me uncomfortable. Plus, it ain't necessarily what's said, it's the way it's said. Something said by one guy can be just hilarious, by another guy - absolute creepsville. And that's not necessarily young/youngish guys versus guys in their 50s onwards.

The physical: Well this is more straightforward. It is of course unacceptable (apart from maybe a bit of flirtatious touching on e.g. the arm, or something, which both parties are comfortable with) - I've experienced it at the hands (literally) of leery drunken colleagues and it's extremely humiliating and demoralising. I haven't let it get to me though - not minimising it, but it's nothing compared to the relentless campaign of grotesque behaviour a colleague of mine had to put up with from her pig of a boss. Some of it was downright assault - it didn't matter where they were: work, social gatherings, her wedding (!), the man would always give it a try. She never did anything about it - sadly, she felt she couldn't.

metaoblivia

I used to work for a large retail chain, and some of the comments other male managers would make could have easily been considered sexual harassment. In fact, the company was sued for sexual harassment by managers in other stores.

My first incident of sexual harassment happened my first year of uni, when I was living in a campus dorm. There was a guy who thought I was attractive and would make comments. One night he came in drunk and I happened to be walking down the hallway back to my room. He pinned me against the wall and told me if I ever wanted to be f*cked by a n*gger to just let him know. That might actually qualify as assault since he did pin me against the wall. Anyway, I wriggled free, ran to my room and locked the door. Never reported it though. I was shocked and scared. He could have gotten in a lot of trouble though, not necessarily for the harassment, but because our dorm was very strict about drinking and if you were caught intoxicated, you would be kicked out.

The other incident is the year I was stalked. Again, it became a bit more than harassment when he broke into my apartment and assaulted me, but before that he would leave very sexual, very creepy notes and sex toys at my door.

Madame Razz

I've had colleagues trying to get me into bed, and clients trying to get me into bed, I've had clients trying to push their way into my hotel room at an ungodly hour, I've had clients just being generally leery and putting their hands(or trying to) in in appropriate places and trying to move said hands higher. I've even had a client who was the last to leave a room party in my room refuse to leave then try to throw me on the bed and undress me. I've also had an exceptionally leery boss who spoke to my chest and tried to look up my skirt, and generally made me feel uncomfortable.

I told the colleagues where to go, I told the clients it wasn't in my job description, I closed the door on one guys fingers, and I've removed said inappropriately placed hands. The room party guy got kneed in the bollix and I don't make any apologies for that. I left the company with the leery boss, they got uppity, I threatened sexual harassment along with a few other issues and they gave me 3 months extra pay:p.

Thank fcuk for being assertive.

In all seriousness, a LOT of it goes on and it's plain horrible. I'm not the type to be messed with so for me it's always been ok, but for a shyer quieter type I shudder to think of the consequences.

EDIT: and that's just the workplace :rolleyes:

minidazzler

I would personally consider anything that makes the other party feel uncomfortable would be crossing the line.

Jokes of a sexual nature I wouldn't call sexual harrassment, but if one person is telling another person these jokes over and over as if testing them then it is in my opinion harrassment.

Funbags Freddie

Worked in a warehouse in Sunderland for awhile as I paid my way through uni and there was this woman who took a shine to me and called me Irish as her nickname for me. She was always making remarks that I brushed off but after a month or so she became quite touchy, brushing past me. Didn't know how to handle it.
At one work event she was quite drunk, she was a large woman and she pressed herself against me in a horrible way asking me to comment on her breasts.

Left a week later. Not nice having unwanted attention when there is little you can do about it as most will think it is just you, if you get me.

Dudess

Jesus Christ, those stories are horrendous. :mad:

The other side though is when guys feel they have to tip-toe - not a nice state of affairs either.

stoneill

Here's some definitions fro our HR policies.. hope it helps:
Harassment:
Harassment is any act or conduct including physical conduct, spoken words, gestures or the production, display or circulation of written words, pictures or other material if the action or conduct is unwelcome to the employee and could reasonably be regarded as offensive, humiliating or intimidating under one of the following nine grounds: race, religion, age, marital status, family status, sexual orientation, disability, gender or membership of the traveller community.

This definition also includes persistent intimidation, or humiliation likely to result in another person feeling threatened or which undermines their dignity and/or integrity.

Examples include posting of offensive statements, posters, cartoons in hard copy or on electronic mail or any other company computer or networks; inappropriate jokes which may cause offence on the grounds specified above.
Sexual Harassment:
Sexual harassment is discrimination on the grounds of Gender and includes solicitation of sexual favours, unwelcome sexual advances, or other verbal, visual, or physical conduct of a sexual nature.

To constitute Sexual Harassment or Harassment the behaviour complained of must first be unwelcome. The fact that an individual has previously agreed to the behaviour does not stop him/her from deciding that it has now become unwelcome. It is the unwanted nature of the conduct which distinguishes sexual harassment and harassment from friendly behaviour which is welcome and mutual.

Examples include sexual jokes; posting of sexually offensive statements, posters, or cartoons in hard copy or on electronic mail or any other company computer or networks; use of pornographic screens or software, sexual innuendoes, deliberate touching or cornering, graphic or descriptive comments about a person’s body or physical appearance. To meet the definition of harassment or sexual harassment the behaviour must be unwelcome.

A single complaint brought under any of the specified nine grounds can constitute harassment.
Bullying:
Is harassment on any grounds other than the nine specified: race, religion, family status, age, marital status, sexual orientation, disability, membership of the traveller community and gender.

Workplace bullying is repeated inappropriate behaviour, direct or indirect, whether verbal, physical or otherwise, conducted by one or more persons against another or others, at the place of work and/or in the course of employment which could reasonably be regarded as undermining the individual’s right to dignity at work. Examples include but are not limited to shouting at, ridiculing, isolating, being difficult with respect to shift pass down where communication is essential, constantly making someone the butt of jokes, the use of any spiteful, vindictive or vengeful behaviour.

Xiney

I've never been sexually harassed in the workplace, although there's been less opportunity for that because I generally work in very female dominated workplaces.

In other aspects of my life, I certainly have. And I wouldn't even consider myself to be a stunning looking woman (not putting myself down or anything, just being realistic here) so it's definitely not just the beautiful people who are getting it.

I've had my breasts groped just walking down the street arm in arm with my husband.

I lived with a couple of wasters who had a few friends who were always over that made me feel unsafe and uncomfortable in my own home, again, had my breasts groped until I started simply locking myself in my room whenever they were over. (I bought a lock because I was afraid a drunk guy would come into my room while I was sleeping. Actually, I bought two locks... my room was a converted dining room and had two doors)

There was even an incident when I was as young as 11, and of course your minor verbal **** that happens to everyone.



....depressing, actually, written out like that.

Xiney

And for the record: men (especially, although women also) posting in this thread be warned.

We will not allow the following:

a) denying sexual harrassment b) dismissing sexual harrassment and c) the usual guff.

credit to Silverfish for the idea.



It is against the ethos of the Ladies Lounge as a safe place for women to discuss women's issues to allow what happened in Theadydal's latest thread to happen again and I will personally permaban anyone who tries it.

Dudess

Xiney wrote: »

depressing, actually, written out like that.

Very much so, Xiney...

Funbags Freddie wrote: »

Worked in a warehouse in Sunderland for awhile as I paid my way through uni and there was this woman who took a shine to me and called me Irish as her nickname for me. She was always making remarks that I brushed off but after a month or so she became quite touchy, brushing past me. Didn't know how to handle it.
At one work event she was quite drunk, she was a large woman and she pressed herself against me in a horrible way asking me to comment on her breasts.

Left a week later. Not nice having unwanted attention when there is little you can do about it as most will think it is just you, if you get me.

And I wouldn't be surprised if a male complaining of sexual harassment by a female were taken far less seriously than the reverse.

Another question I meant to ask: how comfortable would people be/do they think they'd be about reporting it?

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Jesus, some fckuking losers around if they get their kicks doing stuff like this. It's no fun if it's not requited, if that's the right word!

Zadkiel

I haven't had anything like that happen to me.
However there was a guy I worked with, who, on nights out would use being drunk as an excuse to be touchy feely with the girls in the office. Sometimes even if their partners were there, but some how the insidious little **** would always convince the girls that it was an honest mistake or that they were giving him signals that they infact were not.

On one occasion he followed one of the girls into the ladies, and she was too embarassed to make a scene.

One night a gang of us were away in Cavan for the weekend and someone invited the little scrote.
During the night he climbed in to bed beside one of the girls naked and started groping her in her sleep.

She told me about this the next morning and asked me not to make a scene.
This girl was like a sister to me but I was already livid from seeing him do things like this before.

I wasn't sure what to do and I didn't want to betray a trust but I'd seen his act too often before. In the end i had to have a "quiet " word with him. But the awful thing is that it didn't make a difference, the last straw came when he started stroking my gf's arm in the pub one night.
I'm not proud of it but I wound up giving him a hiding.

I refused to be in his company since on work nights out. But a lot of the people I worked with seemed to think he was just misunderstood!

I could throttle the little sh*t!

ps Sorry for the long post

minidazzler

Zadkiel wrote: »

I'm not proud of it but I wound up giving him a hiding.

Good post, and don't worry, you may not be proud of yourself, but I am plenty proud of you. He deserved it.

I know the type and how they start off, but not why.

I have a former friend who was like that, or still is, I don't knoiw because I avoid him.

Xiney

Xiney wrote: »

I've had my breasts groped just walking down the street arm in arm with my husband.

I should add:

My husband didn't notice (it was dark, in passing) and so I waited until we were a few meters away from the guy (so that my husband wouldn't feel the need to defend my honour, last thing I need is Mr Xiney getting arrested for assault) told hubby and then phoned the guards.

I had him cautioned, but they would have arrested him and taken a statement if I'd wanted.

It was early on in my time in Ireland and actually, if I'd known then what I know now (that drink is a serious problem in this country) I'd have taken him to court and made an example of him to all his student friends.

Handsome Bob

I was working in a mortgage company for the Summer of 2007 to save money for my impending 2nd year in University. Everything went smoothly until I got to the last four weeks of the stint, two new women were brought in to replace me and another woman who was going on maternity leave. I was given the duty of training the woman nearer my age (don't know why, the boss probably thought it would make her more comfortable). So she sat with me for two weeks and she was really doing well with no major problems in learning the ropes.

Then in my second last week (her third week) she approached me. She told me that one of the lads on in our department was pestering her. Stuff like constantly asking her out, constantly following her to her car, constantly sitting beside her at lunch time and constantly sending e-mails. Now I already thought this bloke was a twit as he refused to take on more responsibilities and refused to vacate the most basic job in the department because he had "one bad experience" on the phone. So that meant any new trainees that came in couldn't learn the ropes starting from the most basic job (his job) so it was a lot more stress for everyone involved. Anyway I digress.

I told her that she had to report him to HR but she was too afraid, didn't want to be asked tough questions and didn't want to get him in trouble because he was "a nice guy". My hands were tied, I couldn't blow the whistle on him without her willing to co-operate. So next thing I know she's handing in her notice and again I said "Look, you have to tell HR about this in your exit interview, what if he keeps doing this to every new trainee and like you they feel forced into leaving the company after 3 weeks?" So she said she would tell HR. NEXT thing I know she's not coming in for her last week and has just walked away from a job without getting a deserved reference.

Finally I just flipped on the last day of my stint and told my assistant manager everything. I doubted HR could have done much with little evidence, all the same though the last I heard the bloke had been demoted into the "file dungeons" with only some other bloke as his sole colleague. Serves him right the prick.

So there's the lesson ladies, TELL HR!!!!!

Earthhorse

It often shocks me how much sexual harassment women have to put up with. A few women I know have confided in me about such situations and I've always encouraged them to take it up with HR or the Guards (where appropriate). In every instance though, so far as I know, they haven't. I appreciate the bind they're in; they don't want to go through the stress such a situation would bring and would rather handle it themselves.

Zadkiel wrote: »

I haven't had anything like that happen to me.
However there was a guy I worked with, who, on nights out would use being drunk as an excuse to be touchy feely with the girls in the office.

This is exactly the situation I was told about. I encourage my colleague to raise the issue but she felt it wasn't worth it. I couldn't offer much else in the way of help as I was never actually around for such incidents.

But a lot of the people I worked with seemed to think he was just misunderstood!

That's the thing; I would hear other guys say "Ah sure, he just gets that way when he's drunk". As if that makes it okay.

Dudess

Actually, I've just remembered something else that happened when I was in the place where my colleague was being harassed by her boss: one night after a few work drinks, a senior member of staff exposed himself to a colleague when he managed to get her on her own.
Word spread, it was only considered an "hilarious" joke - don't know if the guy was even disciplined... but he did get promoted a while after. :mad:

georgiecasey wrote: »

Jesus, some fckuking losers around if they get their kicks doing stuff like this. It's no fun if it's not requited, if that's the right word!

I know... do they think, if they persist, they'll eventually "get" the person or something...?

What I found so saddening in another organisation I worked for was how it used to be in the 70s and 80s - some of the women told me there were certain men at the time whom you would not step into the elevator with, but if you met them on the stairs and there was nobody else around you'd get an auld grabbing up the skirt. And it was something that everyone knew about but it was ignored because "ah shur that's just the way things are - and shur the girls drive the fellas mad with them short skirts"...

Xiney

Dudess wrote: »

Actually, I've just remembered something else that happened when I was in the place where my colleague was being harassed by her boss: one night after a few work drinks, a senior member of staff exposed himself to a colleague when he managed to get her on her own.
Word spread, it was only considered an "hilarious" joke - don't know if the guy was even disciplined... but he did get promoted a while after. :mad:

I know... do they think, if they persist, they'll eventually "get" the person or something...?

What I found so saddening in another organisation I worked for was how it used to be in the 70s and 80s - some of the women told me there were certain men at the time whom you would not step into the elevator with, but if you met them on the stairs and there was nobody else around you'd get an auld grabbing up the skirt. And it was something that everyone knew about but it was ignored because "ah shur that's just the way things are - and shur the girls drive the fellas mad with them short skirts"...

Holy ****.

minidazzler

Earthhorse wrote: »

That's the thing; I would hear other guys say "Ah sure, he just gets that way when he's drunk". As if that makes it okay.

I hate this excuse, Drunkeness impairs judgement, it doesn't throw it out the window. I have a tendency to make myself appear drunker than I am so that I can be freer and not have questions asked, (Like "Mini, why are you on that pole") But NEVER to grope a girl who I either don't knwo or who doesn't want it.
The reason I am on about faking the level of drunkeness is because this is what I would think alot of these guys do. They put on an act so they can get away with it.

While I dislike confrontation, if any girl in the job I work came to me and said they were being harrassed by anyone, I would first have a quiet word in their ear. Given my position in the company, that should work, if it didn't.....well, it might be against the charter to mention it.

The one thing I will not stand for is harrassment of females, especially those I know.


I will say though, I do tell bad jokes, but only to those open to it, I would class myself as good at reading body language and people's faces so if someone doesn't like it, I just stop telling the jokes when they are around.

Dudess

minidazzler wrote: »

I will say though, I do tell bad jokes, but only to those open to it, I would class myself as good at reading body language and people's faces so if someone doesn't like it, I just stop telling the jokes when they are around.

That's the thing - what you could say to me would horrify another girl :pac: but any mature adult is surely capable of judging who is and isn't fair game for telling uber-smutty jokes too.

dr.bollocko

Posted this before somewhere but I can't find it.
Back a few years ago now I was over in Australia working for a multi-national in Melbourne as a general dogsbody. Got a call to come and fix a PC problem. When I went up there were a bunch of girls cooing at my Irish accent and taking said accent off really badly. Made me wince. Anyways it was some sort of a USB problem so I got under a desk and was lying on my back to get to the back of the PC.
This pre-menopausal manager (pretty high up in the company) takes it upon herself to step over me and attempt to straddle me whilst giggling in an annoying Australian accent, still taking my accent off. Couldn't believe what was going on. She moves closer and closer making a thrusting motion (all true) until her knickers iactually rubs off of my knee. So now I am pinned under a table by an ugly Melbournian with her fizzy wizzies tickling my knee and she's still giggling thinking none of this is inappropriate. Nearly smacked me head off the desk leaping up, nearly also kneed her in the crotch with the shock of it. The girls were all there just absolutely shocked looking on. Couldn't believe it. Neither do I to this day. But there you go. No word of a lie.

minidazzler

Dudess wrote: »

That's the thing - what you could say to me would horrify another girl :pac: but any mature adult is surely capable of judging who is and isn't fair game for telling uber-smutty jokes too.

I think it also comes down to how well you know a person too.

If some randomer walks up to a girl and says "What has 4 legs and no Drawers?" I doubt she will be too impressed.

However say it to a friend and they might laugh, unless it's just not funny:D

Sex is the answer to the joke:D

Dudess

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Posted this before somewhere but I can't find it.
Back a few years ago now I was over in Australia working for a multi-national in Melbourne as a general dogsbody. Got a call to come and fix a PC problem. When I went up there were a bunch of girls cooing at my Irish accent and taking said accent off really badly. Made me wince. Anyways it was some sort of a USB problem so I got under a desk and was lying on my back to get to the back of the PC.
This pre-menopausal manager (pretty high up in the company) takes it upon herself to step over me and attempt to straddle me whilst giggling in an annoying Australian accent, still taking my accent off. Couldn't believe what was going on. She moves closer and closer making a thrusting motion (all true) until her knickers iactually rubs off of my knee. So now I am pinned under a table by an ugly Melbournian with her fizzy wizzies tickling my knee and she's still giggling thinking none of this is inappropriate. Nearly smacked me head off the desk leaping up, nearly also kneed her in the crotch with the shock of it. The girls were all there just absolutely shocked looking on. Couldn't believe it. Neither do I to this day. But there you go. No word of a lie.

Christ, that's assault...

dr.bollocko

Dudess wrote: »

Christ, that's assault...

If a bloke did that he'd be out straight fired. Escorted from the building by security with possible police charges too.

Dudess

But unfortunately Doc, the attitude that you're a man - you either won't be bothered by it or you'll enjoy it (if she's attractive) is all too prevalent.

I actually did my thesis on abuse experienced by men - some really horrible, frightening stuff.

Jumpy

Australia is almost like America with sexual harrassment laws. Its rare that you would see something like that happen and not get dealt with. I dont know how I would be in that situation though. Do you rock the boat or not? Its sometimes tougher for a guy to report it than a girl.

dr.bollocko

I did **** all about it tbh. I didn't feel threatened by it or her. Just weirded out and a little disgusted. She was just incredibly dumb and did something inappropriate. I thought about it and dropped it.
Mostly the situation I was in really. New country, new job, good pay and good hours. Very big multinational that has been good to me since. If she had done anything more I would have done something about it. I guess my reaction to it would probably be the typical male one so it's funny when the genders are reversed it is just a different type of problem.

minidazzler

Dudess wrote: »

But unfortunately Doc, the attitude that you're a man - you either won't be bothered by it or you'll enjoy it (if she's attractive) is all too prevalent.

I actually did my thesis on abuse experienced by men - some really horrible, frightening stuff.

That's something I have noticed alot when I go out actually, girls touching fella's or whatever. I have had my balls cupped on numerous occasions by girls who appeared to just be looking for attention. I didn't mind so much because I was tipsy, but if it happened anywhere else I would not be sure whether I would say "Are you gonna finish it" or "Fcuk off." It's a diffficult thing to do really, because we know how we are "supposed to react" and how we wnat to react.

(If that thesis is available online I would be very interested in it:o)

Dudess

It's a series of articles. One was published so it might be online - I'll have a scoot around. The rest of it isn't and I can't email it to you because I'm an idiot - an idiot who saved it on a USB key and nowhere else. And USB keys tend to get broken/lost.

I have a hard copy though and I keep meaning to re-transcribe it.

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I did **** all about it tbh. I didn't feel threatened by it or her. Just weirded out and a little disgusted. She was just incredibly dumb and did something inappropriate. I thought about it and dropped it.
Mostly the situation I was in really. New country, new job, good pay and good hours. Very big multinational that has been good to me since. If she had done anything more I would have done something about it. I guess my reaction to it would probably be the typical male one so it's funny when the genders are reversed it is just a different type of problem.

The thing is though: a person doesn't have to be traumatised out of their mind before it's worth reporting. The humiliation and indignation of the moment is enough, even if it's something that will pass shortly thereafter.

SLUSK

Is it sexual harassment if I asked someone out at work and this situation made her uncomfortable?

Nevyn

SLUSK wrote: »

Is it sexual harassment if I asked someone out at work and this situation made her uncomfortable?

That would depend on what your work policies say on it.

Some companies have a policy where employees can't date each others
some have a policy where you can ask someone out just the once and if they decline and you ask them again it's considered sexual harassment in the work place.

minidazzler

Thaedydal wrote: »

That would depend on what your work policies say on it.

Some companies have a policy where employees can't date each others
some have a policy where you can ask someone out just the once and if they decline and you ask them again it's considered sexual harassment in the work place.

TBH Asking once is not sexual harrassment no matter what company policy says. As long as it's not asked in a way as to make the other party feel uncomfortable.

Handsome Bob

SLUSK wrote: »

Is it sexual harassment if I asked someone out at work and this situation made her uncomfortable?

Someone asked me out in work and I said no. Yes it was uncomfortable, but not sexual harassment. If you refuse to take no for an answer and pester to the point of causing stress then yes, but if you leave it alone after the original rejection then it's not sexual harassment. Not IMO anyway.

di2772

My wife told me about her boss and his constant suggestive language one night after another girl left because of his groping.
I went straight over to his house with the intention of putting him in hospital.

Who answered the door but his wife. He wasnt there. So i told her he was lucky he wasnt there and told her the whole story.

It never happened again.

One night at one of their comany parties he walked over to the people i was talking to and i told him what i thought of him in front of them and told him to turn around and walk away if he didnt want a smack. The others were actually shocked that somebody spoke to him about it.

Dont put up with this ****.

whatdoicare

I worked for a company while in college last year and this fella (I hardly ever met him as he worked upstairs) would ring my phone (they were the kind that rings around the offices in the building) every four minutes to tell me something leery or ask me out. Got to the point where my colleague started answering the phone for me first and meeting this guy in the hall was just horrible. Eventually I complained to HR about it and his calls started to be recorded and he got a warning etc.
That was grand until one day he decided to wait outside the building for me so he could shout abuse and loudly tell everyone I was a slut- that didn't last long as my colleague (who in fairness is a bit nuts) walked straight up to him and started screaming at him (my colleague is a male in his 40s btw) that him and my fiancee were going to be waiting for him the next night and they were gonna kick him seven ways from tuesday!
The creep actually tracked me down the next day to apologise to me.:pac:

Dudess

whatdoicare wrote: »

That was grand until one day he decided to wait outside the building for me so he could shout abuse and loudly tell everyone I was a slut

Oh yeah: "slut" or "ugly bitch" after rejection - that's original.

minidazzler

whatdoicare wrote: »

That was grand until one day he decided to wait outside the building for me so he could shout abuse and loudly tell everyone I was a slut-

I have always been bamboozled by this tactic. Calling someone a Slut because they will NOT go out with them? I don't understand the logic of it.

neuro-praxis

I worked in a pub near my home for quite a while, and began having trouble with the assistant manager. (He was hired in a hurry when the manager [a lovely man who was an alcoholic] sadly went missing.)

It started with him asking me out in a jokey way in front of customers, "Ah would you not give me a chance, neuro?" while all the customers were like, "Ah neuro, just one date!" (This was while I was dating the man who is now my husband.)

In private, however, he dropped the jokey persona and would say threatening things, call me a frigid cow, and give me the worst jobs to do in the pub. I always stood up for myself, but the whole situation made me very anxious.

He began telling other members of staff that he "had feelings for me" and suddenly my colleagues were (to my disbelief) laying on pressure to go out with him. This came to a head after work one night when this manager was giving 4 members of staff, including me, a lift home. My other colleagues feigned getting into the car, then didn't, locking me into the car with my manager who said, and I quote: "C'mon neuro, let's go somewhere, I'll take you anywhere you want to go, what about up the mountains?"

I asked him to unlock the doors and when he didn't, I started screaming at him to do it. He unlocked it, I walked home on my own at 3am, very shaken up and angry. I never went back to that job, except to speak to the owner of the pub about his conduct. He was fired a short time later, I heard, but I am still angry that I left a good job I enjoyed because of that manager and my colleagues who supported his behaviour.

I was still living at home at the time and it was all I could do to stop my father going down there and giving him the beating of his life. I didn't want my Dad in prison because of him.

Much more recently, I was in Belfast for the tall ships exhibition one Sat night, and a man walked straight up to me and put his hands on my breasts. Unbelievable.

idunnoutellme

I was working with a guy last year and we were good friends...he was a real player have several girls on the go and hide it from them - all the guys thought he was the man. I was just friends with him either way and he always was saying in work that i wasnt his type and how they'd have to pay him to hit on me, and even made a 'bet' with someone that if he ever 'hit on me' he'd pay the other chap few grand or something....dunno what that was about he was messin but it was kinda mean :mad:

Then we went out after work for a few drinks one night...he was hangin from the night before so any drink he was drinking was adding to his state (apparently) so it was just me him and other lads (friends of other lads) and don't remember why but he groped my chest in front of them...they all laughed and i was left really embarrassed and angry at him...then i brushed it off and we stayed out and all kept on drinking....so when i felt that i've had the one thats one too many i said see you guys i'm going to get my taxi home now...the guy said he'll walk me to the taxi which i thought was nice of him...when we got outside tho he grabbed me put me up against the wall and started kissing me...he was really strong so i couldnt push him off me for ages so had to talk him into stoppin and lettin me go and was really friendly with him....then he was askin me to stay out but eventually gave in and walked me to the taxi...

next day he texted and said oh lets forget the whole thing i was really drunk....thats great like after humiliating me like that...we're still on good terms...but that was a really bad experience for me

Xiney

That's an awful story neuro-praxis

Xiney

idunnoutellme wrote: »

we're still on good terms

for the love of all that is holy...

WHY??

Madame Razz

di2772 wrote: »

My wife told me about her boss and his constant suggestive language one night after another girl left because of his groping.
I went straight over to his house with the intention of putting him in hospital.

Who answered the door but his wife. He wasnt there. So i told her he was lucky he wasnt there and told her the whole story.

It never happened again.

One night at one of their comany parties he walked over to the people i was talking to and i told him what i thought of him in front of them and told him to turn around and walk away if he didnt want a smack. The others were actually shocked that somebody spoke to him about it.

Dont put up with this ****.

That's well and good when you are external to something like this, when you are actually working with it it can be very difficult to do something about it and the ramifications of it can be very serious, and on occasion make things worse, which I suspect is why poeple kepp quiet about these things.

There really are some shocking stories on here and it's only page 3 of the thread:eek:

minidazzler

Xiney wrote: »

for the love of all that is holy...

WHY??

I looked at her username and just thought it as an appropriate answer:D


I can understand why she is still friends with him though. He screwed up one night, it wasn't exactly sexual harassment, more like stupidity on his part. Well, that's what I read from the story, there could be more I don't know though.

Dudess

That is absolutely horrible, neuro-praxis. And others being complicit in such behaviour...

Zadkiel

idunnoutellme wrote: »

I was working with a guy last year and we were good friends...he was a real player have several girls on the go and hide it from them - all the guys thought he was the man. I was just friends with him either way and he always was saying in work that i wasnt his type and how they'd have to pay him to hit on me, and even made a 'bet' with someone that if he ever 'hit on me' he'd pay the other chap few grand or something....dunno what that was about he was messin but it was kinda mean :mad:

Then we went out after work for a few drinks one night...he was hangin from the night before so any drink he was drinking was adding to his state (apparently) so it was just me him and other lads (friends of other lads) and don't remember why but he groped my chest in front of them...they all laughed and i was left really embarrassed and angry at him...then i brushed it off and we stayed out and all kept on drinking....so when i felt that i've had the one thats one too many i said see you guys i'm going to get my taxi home now...the guy said he'll walk me to the taxi which i thought was nice of him...when we got outside tho he grabbed me put me up against the wall and started kissing me...he was really strong so i couldnt push him off me for ages so had to talk him into stoppin and lettin me go and was really friendly with him....then he was askin me to stay out but eventually gave in and walked me to the taxi...

next day he texted and said oh lets forget the whole thing i was really drunk....thats great like after humiliating me like that...we're still on good terms...but that was a really bad experience for me

Did he even apologise?!:mad:
I know you know the guy better than any of us.....but why are you still on good terms with him? He sexually assaulted you in front of his mates, then muscled you up against a wall and you had to talk him into letting you go?

I know its easier to laugh things off but christ that guys an asshole!

Warfi

idunnoutellme wrote: »

I was working with a guy last year and we were good friends...he was a real player have several girls on the go and hide it from them - all the guys thought he was the man. I was just friends with him either way and he always was saying in work that i wasnt his type and how they'd have to pay him to hit on me, and even made a 'bet' with someone that if he ever 'hit on me' he'd pay the other chap few grand or something....dunno what that was about he was messin but it was kinda mean :mad:

After this you should have told him where to go, never mind the incident after the night out. He's depraved. Have nothing to do with him outside of a professional capacity.

idunnoutellme

well it was just easier to forget the whole thing.....i dunno at the time i was working with him in a very small office and any confrontation would have led to very uncomfortable working conditions..it was a summer job so i didnt have to work with him for too long after that...

at the time i said it to all of my friends and they just told me to forget it and eff him he's a pr*ck...and ye he appologised in a text the next day...he never actually talked to me about it since....so we just had to work and pretend nothing happened...and after a while we just came back to being on good talking terms

i told one of the guys in work about it actually and he laughed it off saying oh ye you two scored....
the fact that it was fuelled by drink makes it quite hard to talk about i think cos its an excuse the other person can easily fall back on and there's nothing else for you to say

Manic Moran

The other side though is when guys feel they have to tip-toe - not a nice state of affairs either.

The other side of the coin: I was fired for sexual harrassment. I think.

(That got your attention, didn't it? I'll come back to this)

minidazzler wrote: »

I would personally consider anything that makes the other party feel uncomfortable would be crossing the line.

That's pretty much the official line as I'm aware of it. (though I wouldn't mind if there was an 'intent' clause, at least for a first offence)

Sometimes I think that the tiptoeing can be taken to extremes. As member of the military, there often isn't the practical capability for 'traditional' gender separation: Having separate tents for males and females in a battlefield, or separate showers, mandating same-gender pairs, or whatever, means extra logistical requirements, difficulty, and sometimes downright impossibility. (There's one female in a platoon: How does she get checked for ticks?). The solution in the US Army is to go to the effort to make sure there is no chance of any possibility of mis-understood statements. "Private, get your clothes off. Tick check" is a legitimate military instruction. Still, can you imagine how long it would take before someone would file a harrasment suit? Love to see that in the papers. "Sergeant orders female subordinate to strip. Army taken to court." Still, maybe it's simply a cultural thing. I've spent a little time at the neighbouring French base: They don't segregate into male soldiers and female soldiers: There are soldiers, period. There's one set of restrooms. One set of showers. Somehow they seem to manage just fine.

This brings me back to my possibly having gotten fired for harassment.

I used to work IT in Ireland. When things were quiet, instead of sitting at my desk and surfing the web, I'd go around from desk to desk, chatting with people, both for the social aspect, and to see if they had any issues which hadn't been reported through the normal trouble-ticket process. No problem at all.

I then moved to the US, and, foolishly, thought that a similar work process might apply. Got a job in IT, and went to a similar routine. If the systems were working, walk the floors, see what was going on.
My first warning that things were different in the US, which I missed, was when management said they didn't like me roaming the top floor (where the managers were). Said I might overhear something in an office or on a speakerphone which might be classified. (Despite the daftness of the request, it's not as if I couldn't have read their emails had I had a mind to.) Still, I kept on with my normal routine. I just reduced my visits to the top floor. Silly request, but it was clear, understandable, and I changed my routine to suit.

Then, after a couple of weeks, I got a talking to by my mangler, who, without any emphasis whatsoever, asked if I was doing anything which might have made any females uncomfortable. Warning sign number two. This one, I didn't miss, though I certainly couldn't think of anything and said as much. Mangler said nothing more. Still, from that point when I was walking the floors and chatting to people, I made a conscious effort not to say or do anything which might have been mis-interpreted as hitting on one of the females. (Or males, after thinking about it. I was in San Francisco, after all!)

Three days later, I was let go. There were two possibilities, neither of which I'm willing to discount.

One is that the manglers simply didn't think I was doing my job. They like people to seem like they're working: Apparently they don't subscribe to the theory that if the computer network is working fine and the IT guy is not typing frantically into a computer with his head cut off, then he's obviously doing a good job. This is lesson #1 that I learned about working in the US. Don't just do your job: Be seen to be doing your job. (Granted, maybe I just got lucky in Ireland)

The other is that people felt uncomfortable or threatened by me simply by the fact that I would frequently stop by their desk just to chat. (Granted, this was a habit not shared by my other IT co-workers). I consider this particularly bizarre, but I also accept that the US is a place which is hypersensitive to even the perceived appearance of some form of impropriety. Hence, #2 lesson about working in the US: Be less sociable.

These lessons have been well learned. I've never had a problem since. I've also never really enjoyed my civilian work quite as much.

Something I wish I could say back to the former employer and their employees, though, is "Next time, say something. If I do something which makes you uneasy, try letting me know. It could simply be cultural ignorance."

Still, their loss. Got picked up by a competitor the next week.

NTM (Interloper)

Stheno

Dudess wrote: »

That's the thing - what you could say to me would horrify another girl :pac: but any mature adult is surely capable of judging who is and isn't fair game for telling uber-smutty jokes too.

I'd be the same tbh have worked in male dominated environments the past ten years and have heard it all (well almost) and seen a lot of it

SLUSK wrote: »

Is it sexual harassment if I asked someone out at work and this situation made her uncomfortable?

Thaedydal wrote: »

That would depend on what your work policies say on it.

Some companies have a policy where employees can't date each others
some have a policy where you can ask someone out just the once and if they decline and you ask them again it's considered sexual harassment in the work place.

minidazzler wrote: »

TBH Asking once is not sexual harrassment no matter what company policy says. As long as it's not asked in a way as to make the other party feel uncomfortable.

The part in bold is what the last five companies I worked for used as harassment/sexual harassment criteria.

It's how the other party percieved it.

Manic Moran wrote: »

The other side of the coin: I was fired for sexual harrassment. I think.

Having worked in the same IT company as you, in the same building for a couple of years, I can't imagine someone less likely to sexually harass tbh, felt bad reading your story

I'd say in the past two years I've been sexually harassed probably every three months usually by male colleagues touching me uninvited, unwanted comments etc.

I was told by one male colleague last winter when I arrived in their office from another building, wearing a coat over a dress, that I looked "naked under the coat"

Now I don't like my space being invaded and I'd class all of the above as unwanted attention, as I would conversations held with my boobs or legs (these happen regularly) they all make me feel uncomfortable and uneasy and I dislike them.

The flip side is that at this stage rather than causing uproar, I've gotten to a point where I accept that it happens and don't do anything, a bad reflection on me for not standing up for me. The other flip side is to complain, cause a massive fuss, and end up being known as the ice maiden who hates men.

I rarely come across it outside of work tbh

SLUSK

nouggatti: I think my exact words were, "would you care to join me for a few drinks @ (insert bar name) on Saturday. She seemed stunned to this and maybe she was uncomfortable. So are you seriously telling me I sexually harassed this young woman since she felt uncomfortable?

Stheno

SLUSK wrote: »

nouggatti: I think my exact words were, "would you care to join me for a few drinks @ (insert bar name) on Saturday. She seemed stunned to this and maybe she was uncomfortable. So are you seriously telling me I sexually harassed this young woman since she felt uncomfortable?

I'm not telling you anything, I'm just stating that any sexual harassment policy in the last five companies I worked in stated that harassment was that that was percieved by the person who felt harassed.

Personally I'd go with the "don't screw with the crew" ethos and never consider a work colleague as a potential partner.