Luas Vs. Dublin Bus/ Dublin Bus Vs. Luas

DualFrontDiscs

Hi,

Given the recent tragic accident on Dublin's South Quays (RIP) and the ensuing dialogue about road usage, safety etc, what are the implications for THAT conversation when;

Two of the largest and most conspicuous users of Dublin's roads, driven by professional drivers trained and licensed to transport dozens of passengers managed to collide?

I hope everyone involved is okay.

DFD.

Húrin

I blame the lack of rain for a whole week.

petethedrummer

Ban cycling, dig up the luas tracks and turn all the buses into hospitals.

DualFrontDiscs

Húrin wrote: »

I blame the lack of rain for a whole week.

Could be......

petethedrummer wrote: »

Ban cycling, dig up the luas tracks and turn all the buses into hospitals.

1. Banning cycling would just drive it (sorry about that) underground, with all sorts of dodgy bikes and individuals doing it, with no respect for <insert red flag here>
2. An underground Luas might be a good idea.
3. Hospital buses might be useful, though not as a replacement for existing hospitals. God help the children.

I had hoped to raise a slightly more serious point (not as serious as kids in hospitals, fair enough). If two professional drivers, driving the most conspicuous vehicles, on clearly defined routes, both presumably well known to each other......still managed to crash into each other, what does that mean for cyclists' safety on the road?

DFD.

petethedrummer

You'd have to take a long term look at it. As someone pointed out in another thread, cycling fatalities seem to be down this year.

DualFrontDiscs

petethedrummer wrote: »

You'd have to take a long term look at it. As someone pointed out in another thread, cycling fatalities seem to be down this year.

Or perhaps just a broader view of things? For sure, some die earlier, but lots live longer (health benefits, etc.) "Lies, damn lies and statistics", to quote someone else.

DFD.

dolby

What I can't understand is why do bus drivers have to run red lights (and they do I see it everyday in the city center) they dont need to be in a rush that much do they?..
I dont no the cause of the crash today however I would be thinking it was the bus drivers fault, Im open to correction but the luas has saftey sensors Not to pass red lights? oh and a driver

petethedrummer

DualFrontDiscs wrote: »

Or perhaps just a broader view of things? For sure, some die earlier, but lots live longer (health benefits, etc.)

Its not about who lives longer or health benefits, its about counting the number of cycling fatalities each year.

kenmc

dolby wrote: »

What I can't understand is why do bus drivers have to run red lights (and they do I see it everyday in the city center) they dont need to be in a rush that much do they?..
I dont no the cause of the crash today however I would be thinking it was the bus drivers fault, Im open to correction but the luas has saftey sensors Not to pass red lights? oh and a driver

Well newstalk @4pm quoted eyewitness reports as saying the luas ran the red, not the bus. But yeah I'd agree with you - I used work just off Dame St and the amount of busses I saw running the red at Georges St/Dame st junction was scary. I reported it to Dublin Bus and got a standard "oh we'll inform the garages to tell the drivers not to do it" - pretty sure I was pi$$ing into the wind to be honest, just wasting my own time. Just a matter of time though till some poor blind person is waiting to cross the road and goes at the audio signal assuming it's safe to go, and gets taken out.

anyway, hope all are ok after the incident, the pictures sure look serious.

DualFrontDiscs

dolby wrote: »

What I can't understand is why do bus drivers have to run red lights (and they do I see it everyday in the city center) they dont need to be in a rush that much do they?..

No defence, but 'momentum'?

DFD.

wingknot

if they could not stop for a red light due to momentum they where driving too fast in the first place.

DualFrontDiscs

petethedrummer wrote: »

Its not about who lives longer or health benefits, its about counting the number of cycling fatalities each year.

That's hardly the long term view of things you suggest in a previous post. Not trying to be antagonistic.

DFD.

petethedrummer

I give up.

DualFrontDiscs

petethedrummer wrote: »

I give up.

Fair enough. I accept what you're saying, fewer cycling deaths this year, is better than more cycling deaths last year. Nobody could disagree with that. Unless, you take a really broad and/ or long term view of things and ask:

1. Are there fewer deaths because there are fewer cyclists/ journeys?
2. Are fewer deaths in the short term worth the long term health costs of people not cycling in the first place?

I agree that despite the absolute tragedy it is for the cyclist's family, there's some perspective needed.

DFD.

stopped_clock

DualFrontDiscs wrote: »

Hi,

Given the recent tragic accident on Dublin's South Quays (RIP) and the ensuing dialogue about road usage, safety etc, what are the implications for THAT conversation when;

Two of the largest and most conspicuous users of Dublin's roads, driven by professional drivers trained and licensed to transport dozens of passengers managed to collide?

I hope everyone involved is okay.

DFD.

I don't know if any incident taken in isolation can say much about anything. If (for example) the LUAS was crashing into things every week that'd be a different story.

Now I don't know the facts of this case but:

1 - Accidents happen. You have to accept that risk when becoming part of traffic irrespective of your mode of transport.

2 - Breaking red lights can lead to crashes.

dolby

Accidents DON'T happen! there caused! for every "collision" which they are called now somebody or all parties are at fault I think the mind-set of "accident" refers to "oh unlucky it just happened"..
I would love to go out everyday for a cycle knowing I will be safe however that will never be the case, you just have to go out and be as road safe as you can, because other road users dont give a sh1t about cyclists.. (Rant over:mad::mad:)

Caroline_ie

dolby wrote: »

you just have to go out and be as road safe as you can, because other road users dont give a sh1t about cyclists.. (Rant over:mad::mad:)

The driver who scared the sh!t out of me at 6:45 this morning honking in my ear showing me the cycle track surely cared.

stopped_clock

dolby wrote: »

Accidents DON'T happen! there caused! for every "collision" which they are called now somebody or all parties are at fault I think the mind-set of "accident" refers to "oh unlucky it just happened"..
I would love to go out everyday for a cycle knowing I will be safe however that will never be the case, you just have to go out and be as road safe as you can, because other road users dont give a sh1t about cyclists.. (Rant over:mad::mad:)

I agree with you re "happening" vs "being caused" in the case of any individual incident (not that the two need be mutually exclusive).

I said "accidents happen" in response to the question of what can be taken from this collision wrt cylist road safety in general (and specifically on the south quays in Dublin). The point is that if there were lots of such incidents the risk of being involved in one on any given day would be higher, but it is important to remind oneself that accidents do happen and that there is a possibility of being involved in one on any journey.

Jip

kenmc wrote: »

Well newstalk @4pm quoted eyewitness reports as saying the luas ran the red, not the bus.

Luas don't have red, green or orange lights to control their movements. They have an LED system which turns into a straight vertical line when it's to go, a horizontal line to stop and something that looks like a star for get ready. Something like that anyway.

dolby

Jip wrote: »

Luas don't have red, green or orange lights to control their movements. They have an LED system which turns into a straight vertical line when it's to go, a horizontal line to stop and something that looks like a star for get ready. Something like that anyway.

Ya the Luas ran the buses red light:D:D
It is a led system,

Lumen

Luas would win, deffo. Unless Chuck Norris was driving the bus.

Maybe I've misunderstood the question.

stopped_clock

Lumen wrote: »

Luas would win, deffo. Unless Chuck Norris was driving the bus.

Maybe I've misunderstood the question.

Too Soon?

blorg

Jip wrote: »

Luas don't have red, green or orange lights to control their movements. They have an LED system which turns into a straight vertical line when it's to go, a horizontal line to stop and something that looks like a star for get ready. Something like that anyway.

I took from it that the Luas ran the stop signal, the technicalities of whether the signals are green/red or lines are not really the issue here.



I think the logic behind them being lines is mainly that they don't get confused with the traffic signals for car traffic when near them.

Jip

I was just being a pedant !

furiousox

Lumen wrote: »

Luas would win, deffo. Unless Chuck Norris was driving the bus.


Ah, but what if Mr T was driving the Luas ('cos he won't fly) what then??

Jip

furiousox wrote: »

Ah, but what if Mr T was driving the Luas ('cos he won't fly) what then??

There's a fatal flaw in that argument, isn't he in a helicopter in one of the Snickers advertisements ?

Raam

Jip wrote: »

There's a fatal flaw in that argument, isn't he in a helicopter in one of the Snickers advertisements ?

yeah but he tells yer man not to be acting the maggot and dont make him fly round again as he hates flying

py2006

Jip wrote: »

There's a fatal flaw in that argument, isn't he in a helicopter in one of the Snickers advertisements ?

Hah, never thought of that one! Mr T is notoriously scared of flying!! Yet for snickers its no problem!! Sucka!!

biomed32

i think the current line of thought on that accident is a signal fault or failure somewhere allong the line but im hesitant to say as i have no engineering experience and wasnt there at the time, we will just have to wait for the report to be publically released and who knows when that will be.

on another note, I hope those injured are on the mend particulary the three who were seriously injured, the driver of the luas and two passangers

furiousox

CIE have just stated that the bus was on a green light...