Doctors Working Hours

Shane-1

Hello everybody,

Just a quick query regarding doctors working hours. I am aware that they are generally long, but roughly how long? 60 - 70 hours per week? Or more, or less? And how would that break down per day, would it be like 8 in the morning till 8 at night 5 days a week or what?

How does an average working week go? And for someone due to graduate in around 2013 will the European Working Hours Directive have come into place by then?

Thanks for any help ye might have.

DrIndy

hours are crap - they won't become any more "social" even after implementation of the EWTD - possibly even less so as call is dropped and we are rostered for nights and late evenings.

Hours of work should never draw someone to medicine or even salary (which is generally poor too for many, many years).

I do however love my job. That is all I need.

beeno67

DrIndy wrote: »

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Hours of work should never draw someone to medicine or even salary (which is generally poor too for many, many years).

.

Hours are tough and the work can be hard but the pay is not poor. Average 30 year old NCHD can expect to earn €55,000 - €60,000 before any overtime is added on. I know you can argue that doctors have a professional qualification etc but there are not many 30 year olds earning €55,000- €60,000 for a 39 hour week.

tallaght01

beeno67 wrote: »

Hours are tough and the work can be hard but the pay is not poor. Average 30 year old NCHD can expect to earn €55,000 - €60,000 before any overtime is added on. I know you can argue that doctors have a professional qualification etc but there are not many 30 year olds earning €55,000- €60,000 for a 39 hour week.

53-56k from what I can see on the salary scales. But that's 6 years post graduation, after working 80+ hours per week for that time.

I agree it's not a poor salary by any means, but it's not exorbitant. Until recently, there were lots of 30 year old professionals earning that. 2 close mates talking to me last year...one was a nurse on 55k, and one was an electrician on about the same. Both were the same age as me, and both earning more than me (on oz wages admittedly).

If it makes you feel any better,a LOT of Irish docs go to Oz and New Zealand, where we earn a lot less than that.

Shane-1

Ok, thanks everyone.

Ya I have a young little child and Im concerned about being around to see them! Obviously as well as having some bit of free time! Wages wouldnt really be much of a concern I guess, more the amount of time spent working. Plus I will be 30 or so when graduating, probably not the best time of your life to be spending every minute of the day at work

Bit depressing!

Jane5

Beeno, ya muppet, NCHDs don't work 39 hours a week!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They work a bit closer to 90 hours a week, some over 100, some less (average is 72 hours a week, with illegal shift lengths of up 50 hours in places)

Makes the hourly rate of pay comparable to someone working in a high street chain store.

There are far, far easier ways to make 55 k a year.

beeno67

Jane5 wrote: »

Beeno, ya muppet, NCHDs don't work 39 hours a week!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They work a bit closer to 90 hours a week, some over 100, some less (average is 72 hours a week, with illegal shift lengths of up 50 hours in places)

Makes the hourly rate of pay comparable to someone working in a high street chain store.

There are far, far easier ways to make 55 k a year.

Jane5 ya muppet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know they work more than 39 hours a week. I am saying for the first 39 hours they earn between €55K and €60K. In other words that is their basic pay which is €28 per hour. They then earn extra for the overtime. People working in high street chain stores do not earn 28 euro per hour

tallaght01

I'm just not sure what point is being made here. A doc 6 years post grad earns about 26euros per hour. No lunch breaks, life and death decisions, highly pressurised job, which requires a high level of academic ability.

Like I said, it's not a disastrous wage by any stretch. But it doesn't strike me as being exorbitant. Plus you can't really look at the 39 hour week in isolation. That's because you'll often do your basic 9 hour days straight after doing a 24 hour shift, or you'll often start your 24 hour shift the second your 9 hour day ends.

IN the last 10 years, there have been a hell of a lot of people earning a lot more than NCHDs basic salary for a lot less training and a lot less work.

tallaght01

to answer the OPs question, the hours structure is likely to change son. You'll have things like the doctor will do 7 nights in a row, of 12 hours at a time (usually 9pm-9am). That is EXHAUSTING, as you often don't get any rest on the nightshift whatsoever. Then y the time you get to bed its 11am. Then you get up at 7pm, having had a quite disturbed sleep. It's awful, and I hated the week of nights more than any other shifts I've ever done in medicine.

Then there will be the week of long shifts (9am-9pm). You'll usually do these 7 in a row too. You'll finish after 10 (you won't get paid for the extra hour, so you'll be doing 7-10 hours per week unpaid. Same on the nightshift, where you'll never get out on time).

It makes medicine very antisocial. But that's the game you have to play. There specialties where that will be your life until the day you retire (surgery, paediatrics, ICU) or there are specialties where the on-call is less onerous as a consultant (medicine, pulic health, psych).

beeno67

tallaght01 wrote: »

I'm just not sure what point is being made here. A doc 6 years post grad earns about 26euros per hour. No lunch breaks, life and death decisions, highly pressurised job, which requires a high level of academic ability.

Like I said, it's not a disastrous wage by any stretch. But it doesn't strike me as being exorbitant. Plus you can't really look at the 39 hour week in isolation. That's because you'll often do your basic 9 hour days straight after doing a 24 hour shift, or you'll often start your 24 hour shift the second your 9 hour day ends.

I was simply responding to DrIndy's comment about pay been poor. It is not. Jane5's comments that NCHD pay is comparable to "High Street Chain Store" workers is silly.

tallaght01 wrote: »

IN the last 10 years, there have been a hell of a lot of people earning a lot more than NCHDs basic salary for a lot less training and a lot less work.

Yes there have been. But lets be honest there have been a lot more workers earning a fraction of what Irish NCHDs earn. This includes most NCHDs in most countries in the world. Including Australia:) You are right of course about the hours

tallaght01

beeno67 wrote: »

I was simply responding to DrIndy's comment about pay been poor. It is not. Jane5's comments that NCHD pay is comparable to "High Street Chain Store" workers is silly.




Yes there have been. But lets be honest there have been a lot more workers earning a fraction of what Irish NCHDs earn. This includes most NCHDs in most countries in the world. Including Australia:) You are right of course about the hours

I take your point about what you were replying to, and I think that;s fair enough.

I would point out that I'm MUCH better off earning less money in Oz, because of the cost of living. I have a far better standard of living over here, on a good it less money.

And with regard to most people earning less than the NCHD basic over the last few years. I'm sure that's the case. But I'm not sure it's the case in terms of comparable professionals.

Traumadoc

beeno67 wrote: »

I



Yes there have been. But lets be honest there have been a lot more workers earning a fraction of what Irish NCHDs earn. This includes most NCHDs in most countries in the world. Including Australia:) You are right of course about the hours

Basic pay in Australia is better than Irish NCHD pay and you also get penalty rates for unsociable hours, cost of living is less.

If you go parttime, overtime kicks in after 19 hours.

http://jobview.careerone.com.au/GetJob.aspx?JobID=83370455

base pay 65 k

tallaght01

Traumadoc wrote: »

Basic pay in Australia is better than Irish NCHD pay and you also get penalty rates for unsociable hours, cost of living is less.

If you go parttime, overtime kicks in after 19 hours.

http://jobview.careerone.com.au/GetJob.aspx?JobID=83370455

base pay 65 k

that's a private hospital. those of us in the public system get significantly lower rates than that.