Method for Progressing to Heavier Weights

O.P.H

I just want to get peoples opinions on this method that is pretty much the "Starting Strength" method for progessing to heavier weights.

So when I work out I do 2 to 3 warm up sets and then do my working sets of 5 x 5. At the moment my sets are 5 reps to failure. So for the bench press I would start my first working set at 70kg, do 5 reps and be failiing to do 6. Then I would lower the weight by 2kg if needed and repeat.

What I'm thinking of doing now is picking a weight that I know I could do for all the 5 sets. As in I'd do my first working set of 5 reps at 60kg and keep this weight for all the 5 sets, not raising or lowering. I would do the exercise slower and work on perfect form and every week or two so I'd raise this weight by 2kg and so on.

I would imagine this is a good way to progress to heavier weights. When you get to a stage that you can comfortably lift a weight for 5 sets of 5 reps then increasing it by 2kg is very do-able imo. My current method see's me sometimes sacrifising form just to get the weight up and this dosent seem like a good way to progess.

Opinions?

Al_Fernz

Yup that's pretty much the way 5x5's are supposed to be. Don't pick a weight near your max on the first week and then progress through the weights as the weeks go by.

E.g, your max 5x5 is 70kg
Week 1 60kg
W2 62.5kg
W3 65kg
W4 67.5kg
W5 70kg
W6 72.5kg...you are now stronger!

bigstar

my 2c is that going failure on near max weights isnt to clever. sets across of the same weight is better imo, even just for the simplicity, its easier to gauge progress too. like al says drop down and build back up, you should see some gains.

are you always trying to push hard?, ie. never deloading or droping the weight back and building up again. dont think thats the best way to go about it tbh.

token

O.P.H wrote: »

I just want to get peoples opinions on this method that is pretty much the "Starting Strength" method for progessing to heavier weights.

Do you mean the "Starting Strength" method of progressing is the first method you described or the second? The SS method is the second method you mentioned and the way you should be doing things.

With the first method you are going to failure all the time and you are just going to run into a brick wall sooner rather than later. You should not be hitting failure on a regular basis let alone on every set. You should work up over a few weeks to weights you begin to start failing at and then drop back 10% or so and work back up and over your previous maxes until you start to fail again and the cycle continues ad infinitum.

O.P.H

Cheers for advice. Ya the first way I described was my own method and the second was the Starting Strength method. Well when I say the SS method, its just the way you are suppose to progress with that program, I doubt Mark Ripptoe came up witht the idea of the 5 x 5 using the same weight across the board.

I'm defo gonna start doin that though. I had been doin 5 x 5 using the same weight for each set in squats, deads and rows and I like it alot. You conquer a specific weight and move up slightly every week or two. Makes training a bit more goal oriented.

Q - As for deloading, lets say in about 6 to 8 weeks I can do 70kg 5 x 5 but begin to fail on last reps of last set, what weight would I bring it back down to, would I just reduce by around 10% for my next session.

bigstar

O.P.H wrote: »

Cheers for advice. Ya the first way I described was my own method and the second was the Starting Strength method. Well when I say the SS method, its just the way you are suppose to progress with that program, I doubt Mark Ripptoe came up witht the idea of the 5 x 5 using the same weight across the board.

I'm defo gonna start doin that though. I had been doin 5 x 5 using the same weight for each set in squats, deads and rows and I like it alot. You conquer a specific weight and move up slightly every week or two. Makes training a bit more goal oriented.

Q - As for deloading, lets say in about 6 to 8 weeks I can do 70kg 5 x 5 but begin to fail on last reps of last set, what weight would I bring it back down to, would I just reduce by around 10% for my next session.

the SS wiki has a good piece on deloading. but basically if you keep failing or regressing, drop back at least 10% or even more. its better to start too low than too high. if i was struggling with 70kg id probably just go back to 60kg.

oh and i doubt rippetoe came up with 3x5 either he just put a name on it. i think your missing the point of SS, its not some rigid bible of training that makes you add weight every time. its just if you CAN increase the weight your lifting every workout, then DO, itll mean you get stronger quicker.

token

Going by what's written in SS you'd try the weight you are failing at another two times to make sure you just weren't having a bad day. You don't want to reset until you are definate you are properly stuck. Yeah after that drop off about 10%. If say you failed on the bench and had been doing 2.5kg jumps get some incremental plates and do 1kg jumps.

token

You also say you are doing 5x5 now so I take it you have gone past the novice SS stage? "Practical Programming" is a really good read on progressing once you are at the intermediate stage and beyond.

http://www.aasgaardco.com/store/store.php?crn=199&rn=328&action=show_detail

bigstar

token wrote: »

You also say you are doing 5x5 now so I take it you have gone past the novice SS stage? "Practical Programming" is a really good read on progressing once you are at the intermediate stage and beyond.

+1 really good book on the getting the basics right.

ragg

How I do it is like this - Start a weight and attempt 5 * 5. when I achieve that I attempt 3 * 8, when I achieve that I attempt 4 * 8 - once that is achieved I add weight.

Also - I always keep tempo & rest times the same, to ensure its real progression

BobbyOLeary

I'm pretty sure Mark Rippetoe invented both the numbers 3 and 5, I think some old Roman dude gets the props for x though.

Token speaks the truth about how to handle linear progression, even if he had trouble following that himself...

Personally I'm going for a "ramp-up set" approach. I'm on CF Strength Bias while I'm back in college and for my small sets I'm aiming to just hit a big weight in one set, not all of them.

e.g.

3x5 in the Front Squat with a previous 5RM of 85kg

Set 1: 70kg
Set 2: 80kg
Set 3: 90kg

Never done it before but it's certainly easier to recover from imo than sets across. Maybe a point to consider with 5x5 in the deadlift? I'll report back in 5 weeks when I finish this cycle to let you know if it worked or not.

Hanley

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Yup that's pretty much the way 5x5's are supposed to be. Don't pick a weight near your max on the first week and then progress through the weights as the weeks go by.

E.g, your max 5x5 is 70kg
Week 1 60kg
W2 62.5kg
W3 65kg
W4 67.5kg
W5 70kg
W6 72.5kg...you are now stronger!

I back this method!!

If you're using it for squats or DL's I'd probably go +5kg tho (jsut cos I'm impatient)

O.P.H

Would ya do this method of using the same weight across the board for your isolation lifts also and not just your compound lifts. When doin isolation lifts like alt curls or tricep pulldowns I just like to get a good burn and generally always go to failiure for each set.

Hanley

O.P.H wrote: »

Would ya do this method of using the same weight across the board for your isolation lifts also and not just your compound lifts. When doin isolation lifts like alt curls or tricep pulldowns I just like to get a good burn and generally always go to failiure for each set.

Mostly on compounds....

On isolation type stuff I usually try to beat the previous weeks reps, and when I get to 3-5x10-12 move up to the next dumbbell or plate and then go again.

Whatcha like and whatcha need are two different things btw!!

O.P.H

ragg wrote: »

How I do it is like this - Start a weight and attempt 5 * 5. when I achieve that I attempt 3 * 8, when I achieve that I attempt 4 * 8 - once that is achieved I add weight.

Also - I always keep tempo & rest times the same, to ensure its real progression

What do people think of the above approach, I think its a pretty good idea, ya really dominate the weight before ya go moving up.

Oh ya, and Hanley, is it better to do higher reps for isolations like biceps and triceps cause I generally do like the 5 x 5 for those too with heavey weight

BossArky

Back in January and February (before I knew anything about deloading) I did 5x5 as follows:

Deadlift: tuesday
Squat: thurdsay
Bench: saturday

I added 2.5kg each week to both upper and lower over the 8 weeks (I think). Got up to ~102.5kg on squat, ~125kg on deadlift, and maybe 75kg on bench towards the end... but was in bits.

Second time around (march & April) i added 5kg for lower body. I was knackered after about 6 weeks so the last 2 were not 100%. Constantly pushing to the max each session adds up and wears you down.

If you do go for sets of 5x5 across be sure to include a deload. This is important or else you'll be in bits. If I did 5x5 again I would probably deload every 4th week.

my2c.

BossArky, is 5*5 or the SS programme a decent programme for people who are interested in all round fitness ?

I mean, my goals at the moment are to get back to 10% bodyfat so I'm going to be incorporating cardio into every workout I do (at the end of it). It would be nice to get back to my old goals of being able to bench my BW and squat my BW etc. I'm drawn to these programmes because I love compound lifting.

BossArky

Deleted User wrote: »

BossArky, is 5*5 or the SS programme a decent programme for people who are interested in all round fitness ?

5*5 or SS on their own will make you strong but not fit.

If you want to be fit then include some type of cardio e.g. hill sprints, skipping, intervals (running/cycling), crossfit cindy, etc

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean, my goals at the moment are to get back to 10% bodyfat so I'm going to be incorporating cardio into every workout I do (at the end of it). It would be nice to get back to my old goals of being able to bench my BW and squat my BW etc. I'm drawn to these programmes because I love compound lifting.

531 may be a good program for you if you want more than horsing the weights around. You could have a "week" of training running over 8 of 9 days as follows:

Day 1: Military Press & assistance
Day 2: Deadlift & assistance
Day 3: Hill sprints, skipping, cycling, quick crossfit
Day 4: Bench & assistance
Day 5: Squat & assistance
Day 6: Hill sprints, skipping, cycling, quick crossfit

That is pretty similar to how I have been training the past while. Set up like that the previous session shouldn't have too much impact on the next one.

Thanks for that Boss Arky.

Just a quick question, when you say "Bench + assistance" - what does that mean ?

BossArky

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for that Boss Arky.

Just a quick question, when you say "Bench + assistance" - what does that mean ?

Assistance = exercises which help improve the main one.

Here is a quick selection:

Bench assistance --> pull ups, rows, tricep work, push ups, dips, face pulls
Squat assistance --> lunges, stiff leg deadlift, split squat, abs
Military assistance --> dips, chins, shrugs
Deadlift assistance --> glute ham raise, pull through, abs, good morning

Great thanks for the tips, will remember all this when getting a new programme made for me.

ragg

O.P.H wrote: »

What do people think of the above approach, I think its a pretty good idea, ya really dominate the weight before ya go moving up.

Oh ya, and Hanley, is it better to do higher reps for isolations like biceps and triceps cause I generally do like the 5 x 5 for those too with heavey weight

I find it works for me as I now use the 4 0 1 0 tempo. It makes it a lot tougher as maximises you time under tension. keeping tempo and rest times constant also means that any strength gains are real, not as a result of you doing the exercise faster