True Life In God ( Vassula Ryden )

Stephentlig

Dear Christian brothers and sisters, whether you be Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant, I invite you to take a look at this website which is aimed at the desire for unity among all Christians.www.tlig.org

Now, before you do, I am under the understanding that many people think Vassula was condemed by the church, for those of you who harbour such misconceptions, I invite to take a look at www.defending-vassula.org
which answers all questions in relation to doctrinal errors, veiw of the CDF, and many more.

who is Vassula?
for those of you who do not know her, can veiw her press release here.
http://intranet.tlig.org/en/promo/pressrelease/images/Press%20release%2011-2008.pdf

before you ask, I am not a member of the tlig team, but just your normal average joe soap who loves to read them, I was converted back from sceptic to Catholic through them and now begin study at the Maryvale institute of theology this year for my B.A

May God give you the grace to read his messages with an open heart.
the messages have been given the nihil obstat by the church.
they are no obstacle to the faith and contain no theological errors.

God bless
Stephentlig

P.s: I also have a TLIG prayer group which starts 2nd of October 8pm, meetings last around 1 hour. if your interested, then please e-mail me on stephenmcelligott@hotmail.com for more details.

antiskeptic

Stephentlig wrote: »

Dear Christian brothers and sisters, whether you be Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant, I invite you to take a look at this website which is aimed at the desire for unity among all Christians.www.tlig.org

I wonder how this could be..

After speaking about the True Life in God Messsages to an Inter-religious Meeting in Dhaka, Bangladesh, Vassula was presented with Gold Award by the Buddhist community for propagating peace and inter-faith harmony

..I mean, usually when you tell unbelievers that they are dead in their sin and that there is but one path to eternal life and that Jesus is it, they gnash their teeth at you and tear their clothes (in a manner of speaking).

I can only conclude that Vassula' attempt at unification involves a serious dilution of the gospel of God. Which opens the door to the possibility that she has failed to grasp the gospel of God herself.

As for this...

Your Holy Mother Will Teach You Apocalypse, Chapter 12

Desiring unity whilst propogating doctrina considered by many to be satanic indicates a certain wishful-thinkingness and lack of maturity about that desire.

Stephentlig

antiskeptic wrote: »

I wonder how this could be..

..I mean, usually when you tell unbelievers that they are dead in their sin and that there is but one path to eternal life and that Jesus is it, they gnash their teeth at you and tear their clothes (in a manner of speaking).

I can only conclude that Vassula' attempt at unification involves a serious dilution of the gospel of God. Which opens the door to the possibility that she has failed to grasp the gospel of God herself.

As for this...

Your Holy Mother Will Teach You Apocalypse, Chapter 12

Desiring unity whilst propogating doctrina considered by many to be satanic indicates a certain wishful-thinkingness and lack of maturity about that desire.

Antiskeptic have you read the messages of True Life In God from start to finish?

Stephentlig

I wonder how this could be..

I knew it wouldnt be long before you would come along.

anyhow, Unity amongst Christians, a spiritual unity of love but also a untiy where we all become one under one doctrine, its a slow process but many protestant, orthodox have been very receptive of it. at the moment there are talks between the orthodox and Catholics for unity, so it is happening.
satan doesnt call us to unity, he wants us to remain divided.

..I mean, usually when you tell unbelievers that they are dead in their sin and that there is but one path to eternal life and that Jesus is it, they gnash their teeth at you and tear their clothes (in a manner of speaking).

well it hasnt happened, the buddist community recognise other religions.
but yes many muslims and buddist have been converted through the messages, Jesus has sheep that are not of this fold, and these he must guide as well.

As for this...

Your Holy Mother Will Teach You Apocalypse, Chapter 12

Desiring unity whilst propogating doctrina considered by many to be satanic indicates a certain wishful-thinkingness and lack of maturity about that desire.

Like I said, the unity Jesus wants is one of love and one of doctrine yes.
thats what unity is, Jesus said ''may they be one'' not ''may they be a denomination of 30,000''

you may think its wishful thinking, but then you've got to see how it works, and also have to contend with all the ecumenical tlig prayer groups around the world which protestants, orthodox and Catholics attend.

what do you want Jesus to do? recognise the protestant heresy? Jesus is truth, he doesnt water anything down. the messages have been given the nihil obstat and many testimonies of the church are against you.

God bless
Stephentlig

antiskeptic

Stephentlig wrote: »

I knew it wouldnt be long before you would come along.

Ah well..

anyhow, Unity amongst Christians, a spiritual unity of love but also a unity where we all become one under one doctrine, its a slow process but many protestant, orthodox have been very receptive of it. at the moment there are talks between the orthodox and Catholics for unity, so it is happening.

I've no objection to such a thing other than to query how it might possibly come about when the disagreement is about core essentials (from both sides viewpoint).

satan doesnt call us to unity, he wants us to remain divided.

I wouldn't agree.

Satan would be quite happy to have non-biblical union. That is unity between two sides that compromise on essentials so as to follow unbiblical doctrine for the sake of 'unity'.

well it hasnt happened, the buddist community recognise other religions but yes many muslims and buddist have been converted through the messages, Jesus has sheep that are not of this fold, and these he must guide as well.

Granted. But it is the gospel of God which is going to save men and that gospel contains elements which act as salt in a wound to the dead-in-sin unbeliever. The fact that awards are being received and there are smiles all round indicate to me that the hand of friendship .. and not the gospel of God ... is being extended.

Like I said, the unity Jesus wants is one of love and one of doctrine yes. thats what unity is, Jesus said ''may they be one'' not ''may they be a denomination of 30,000''

I think the unity he was referring to was oneness in him. Whether they belong to one of 30,000 denominations or none isn't the issue - the issue is whether they are in him. If they are they are unified, if not then not - no matter what man-made unity there may be.

you may think its wishful thinking, but then you've got to see how it works, and also have to contend with all the ecumenical tlig prayer groups around the world which protestants, orthodox and Catholics attend.

Which reminds me of an international day of prayer held by Pope JPII. Leaders of all kinds of world religions gathered in Rome for it. There was even the likes of Chief Running Bear (or some such) representing the Red Indian faith. So they all got around and prayed to... whom precisely?

What do these Protestants do when Mother Mary is brought up as one to be prayed to. Do they look the other way? Or is that part kept under wraps for the sake of unity?

I'm reminded again of an attempt by that section of the church that would elevate Israel to unify with the Jewish community. The event took place in Liberty Hall a couple of years back and we were treated to a theatrical take on many of the well-known Old Testament stories. All the heros of the faith made their appearance. Until the time came for Jesus to take the stage. His appearance lasted all of 30 seconds - wheeled on and off in a hurry so as not to offend the Jewish sensibility.

For unity they shamed their Messiah.

what do you want Jesus to do? recognise the protestant heresy? Jesus is truth, he doesnt water anything down. the messages have been given the nihil obstat and many testimonies of the church are against you.

Which protestant heresy are you referring to? Because it would appear to me that the impossibility of unity arises out of this very kind of thing.

Stephentlig

Satan would be quite happy to have non-biblical union. That is unity between two sides that compromise on essentials so as to follow unbiblical doctrine for the sake of 'unity'.

please give us some evidence of how you may think this to be.
Satan does not want everyone under one roof, that roof being that Catholic church. scripture says a divided house cannot stand.

Granted. But it is the gospel of God which is going to save men and that gospel contains elements which act as salt in a wound to the dead-in-sin unbeliever. The fact that awards are being received and there are smiles all round indicate to me that the hand of friendship .. and not the gospel of God ... is being extended.

then you obviously havnt seen the opposotion Vassula has received from Catholics, orthodox and protestants as well as the reception.
the Gospel is also love, and we must love our fellow man, we dont recognise their doctrine but we recognise and respect their position in the world.

I think the unity he was referring to was oneness in him. Whether they belong to one of 30,000 denominations or none isn't the issue - the issue is whether they are in him. If they are they are unified, if not then not - no matter what man-made unity there may be.

who ever said unity was a goal already acheived? I certainly didnt, yes I agree with you, unity is oneness in him, and where love is absent unity cannot be acheived. the unity is not man made, we are all Christian, but our veiw of him is distorted, he wants to clear this up and bring us into one fold.

Which reminds me of an international day of prayer held by Pope JPII. Leaders of all kinds of world religions gathered in Rome for it. There was even the likes of Chief Running Bear (or some such) representing the Red Indian faith. So they all got around and prayed to... whom precisely?

the prayer groups are for christians. all prayers to God are good and wholesome.

What do these Protestants do when Mother Mary is brought up as one to be prayed to. Do they look the other way? Or is that part kept under wraps for the sake of unity?

the rosary is a biblical prayer, many protestants dont have a problem praying the rosary at these prayer meetings. I do not force them to pray the rosary at the meetings, but if they desire not to, the rest of us continue to pray it and they can take however long they need to decide whether or not to pray it. we dont put the rosary aside just for them.
its a long process and not easy for a protestant, so its important we be gentle with one another

I'm reminded again of an attempt by that section of the church that would elevate Israel to unify with the Jewish community. The event took place in Liberty Hall a couple of years back and we were treated to a theatrical take on many of the well-known Old Testament stories. All the heros of the faith made their appearance. Until the time came for Jesus to take the stage. His appearance lasted all of 30 seconds - wheeled on and off in a hurry so as not to offend the Jewish sensibility.

For unity they shamed their Messiah.

this has got nothing to do with tlig.

Which protestant heresy are you referring to? Because it would appear to me that the impossibility of unity arises out of this very kind of thing.

all of them. where love is absent unity cannot be acheived.
you havnt read up on vassula obviously enough to get a good picture of whats going on. like I said before, the messages contain no theological errors, they also have been given the nihil obstat by the church, and have been praised by many theologians such as hans kung and also clergy too and the like. where as they have been received well in the church, they also have not been received well within the church either, or by protestants and orthodox, the opposition they receive is a sheer sign of their athenticity, or at least one obvious sign. but of course antiskeptic would be one of those people who havnt read the messages and just gave the site a little looking over, and came to her own conclusion.

and your opposition to christians of different denominations coming together to pray goes against the canon of the church which encourages christians to come together and pray.

kelly1

Hello Stephen, can I just remind you please that Jesus warned us about false prophets in the latter days i.e wolves in sheeps clothing.

Vassula is causing division in the Church by preaching her own alternative "gospel".

I'm sure you mean well but please don't be fooled.

God bless,
Noel.

Stephentlig

kelly1 wrote: »

Hello Stephen, can I just remind you please that Jesus warned us about false prophets in the latter days i.e wolves in sheeps clothing.

Vassula is causing division in the Church by preaching her own alternative "gospel".

I'm sure you mean well but please don't be fooled.

God bless,
Noel.

Then the burden is on you Noel to provide me with the evidence that she does preach an alternitive gospel, because the testimony of many cardinals who actually do receive her well is against you.

the messages contain no theological errors in them. the false prophets you talk about, Jesus actually mentions in the messages. you shouldnt come to conclusions too quick before reading them and finding out the true story of Vassula. if you have any queries regarding the athenticity of the messages you can veiw this site www.defending-vassula.org

Cardinal Franjo Kuharic

Archbishop of Zagreb

February 1995
Vassula travels the world evangelizing for Christian unity; obedience to the Pope; veneration of the Eucharist; devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus; and especially, a Gospel morality of life; as well as for deep religious conversion of the world. Vassula Ryden has met with the Pope, with cardinals and with bishops around the world. This is a matter of private revelation and we allow her to speak because what she says conforms to Gospel truth.

antiskeptic

Stephentlig wrote: »

please give us some evidence of how you may think this to be. Satan does not want everyone under one roof, that roof being that Catholic church. scripture says a divided house cannot stand.

In order to unify Protestants and Roman Catholics doctrine must be laid aside. Lay aside doctrine and you lay aside the gospel. Seeing as you cannot have the gospel preached (when there fundamental difference in what the gospel is exists) I leave it to your own intelligence to figure out how satan might consider this development.

then you obviously havnt seen the opposotion Vassula has received from Catholics, orthodox and protestants as well as the reception.
the Gospel is also love, and we must love our fellow man, we dont recognise their doctrine but we recognise and respect their position in the world.

Loving your fellow lost man means

a) recognising his position in the world to be hell-bound

b) telling him hard truths about his sorry state before a holy God.

c) how and who it is that can rectify this situation

This can be done respectfully.


However it is done it won't result in photocalls and ecumenical awards. Take a leaf out of the book of Acts: whereever the gospel is preached trouble is sure to follow. Indeed, in the words of Martyn Lloyd Jones, unless your preaching of the gospel results in objection and resistance, you aren't preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.

who ever said unity was a goal already acheived? I certainly didnt, yes I agree with you, unity is oneness in him, and where love is absent unity cannot be acheived. the unity is not man made, we are all Christian, but our veiw of him is distorted, he wants to clear this up and bring us into one fold.

You misunderstand I think. If we are Christian (whether RC, or any other denomination) then we are already unified by being IN him. We are in the one fold and that fold is called Christ. We are called to be unified in the sense that we are to get on with each other and love one another. This doesn't mean we all have to join one denomination - besides, there is a snowballs chance in Hell of unificaton under the Roman Catholic church - too many folk consider aspects of that church positively ...well let's say .. unbenign

the prayer groups are for christians. all prayers to God are good and wholesome.

...

the rosary is a biblical prayer, many protestants dont have a problem praying the rosary at these prayer meetings.

This is what I mean by leaving your doctrine at the door in the cause of "unification". Why on earth would someone who doesn't believe Mary has any role to play in thing pray to Mary. Wouldn't you call that sheer hypocrisy?

I do not force them to pray the rosary at the meetings, but if they desire not to, the rest of us continue to pray it and they can take however long they need to decide whether or not to pray it. we dont put the rosary aside just for them.

We might differ on what constitutes sound teaching and acceptable behaviour. Whatever your persuasion, what do you think Paul would make of false doctrine/heresy being propagated/entertained/tolerated when Christians are gathered.

Aren't we unified in supposing he'd be appalled? Are we unified in thinking that that isn't at all what he meant when he urged unity?

all of them.

So it's not unity you're looking for so much as mass (sic) conversion to the RC church. Like I say, there's a snowballs chance in Hell of that occurring

where love is absent unity cannot be acheived.

Where doctrine is jettisoned it can be. But it's merely unity under the umbrella of a particular denomination. RC-ism

you havnt read up on vassula obviously enough to get a good picture of whats going on. like I said before, the messages contain no theological errors,

With respect: theological errors lies in the eye of the beholder. Correct me if I'm wrong but Marianism would be considered a heresy by many.

they also have been given the nihil obstat by the church, and have been praised by many theologians such as hans kung and also clergy too and the like.

So...?

where as they have been received well in the church, they also have not been received well within the church either, or by protestants and orthodox, the opposition they receive is a sheer sign of their athenticity, or at least one obvious sign.

Could you clarify this. You appear to say that opposition to these teachings is one obvious sign of their authenticity. I'm sure you don't mean this so what DO you mean?

but of course antiskeptic would be one of those people who havnt read the messages and just gave the site a little looking over, and came to her own conclusion.

Marianism is unbiblical thus this lady (who is apparently taught by Mary) is ploughing unbiblical furrows. What more do I need to know.

and your opposition to christians of different denominations coming together to pray goes against the canon of the church which encourages christians to come together and pray.

Not at the price you're suggesting, I'd suggest. Paul would run false doctrine out the door - whether you consider the falsity to be mine or I the falsity yours.

Stephentlig

In order to unify Protestants and Roman Catholics doctrine must be laid aside. Lay aside doctrine and you lay aside the gospel. Seeing as you cannot have the gospel preached (when there fundamental difference in what the gospel is exists) I leave it to your own intelligence to figure out how satan might consider this development.

the message of the Gospel is love, so by loving one another we are not laying aside the Gospel, but doing what the Gospel requires of us, which is to love one another, therefore we are not laying aside the Gospel.

However it is done it won't result in photocalls and ecumenical awards. Take a leaf out of the book of Acts: whereever the gospel is preached trouble is sure to follow. Indeed, in the words of Martyn Lloyd Jones, unless your preaching of the gospel results in objection and resistance, you aren't preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Yes and wherever Vassula goes she gets an equal reception and rejection and trouble arises. take for instance now, when I posted this thread, trouble followed and it wasnt readily accepted, because by preaching unity and love she is preaching the Gospel.

You misunderstand I think. If we are Christian (whether RC, or any other denomination) then we are already unified by being IN him. We are in the one fold and that fold is called Christ. We are called to be unified in the sense that we are to get on with each other and love one another. This doesn't mean we all have to join one denomination - besides, there is a snowballs chance in Hell of unificaton under the Roman Catholic church - too many folk consider aspects of that church positively ...well let's say .. unbenign

This is what I mean by leaving your doctrine at the door in the cause of "unification". Why on earth would someone who doesn't believe Mary has any role to play in thing pray to Mary. Wouldn't you call that sheer hypocrisy?

from the above I suspect you to be protestant, so therefore I have copied and pasted the following for you.

I accept christian unity but only ''when you accept my dogma''
God has asked us to be loving, not to be more correct viz. our brothers’ faith. In TLIG God asks us 18 not to differentiate among ourselves, but to behave like children. Our differences are not as important to the people, but they remain important to the hierarchy, only. As proof, where the demographics make it possible, Christians intermarry without regard to their denomination.

I disagree with the catholic sacraments
Such objections (and other similar ones, e.g. the role of St. Mary in our lives) are typically concerns of those with a Protestant background. To those we can only say:
We do not agree, but we are not the Judge. Perhaps one day, soon, the Protestant Churches might return to the practice of honoring the Holy Eucharist as was the ancient tradition of the single (unified) Church of old (before the Schism), a tradition that is both recognized by the “Fathers” 20 of the Church, and is reflected in TLIG.
We want to UNITE in our hearts, while respecting each other in Christ’s love! The previous are but a summary of the most common objections. The sincere reader is encouraged to seek and to speak to one of the regional coordinators for TLIG to follow up with any additional questions/issues.
“May God’s kingdom come on earth, as it is in Heaven.”

*****

so antiskeptic I refuse to entertain this thread anymore, any questions you have just ask one of the TLIG members. I thought you were Catholic, so I was letting you know that there was nothing in the messages to contradict the church on its faith and morals.

God bless and take care.
Stephentlig

antiskeptic

Stephentlig wrote: »

the message of the Gospel is love, so by loving one another we are not laying aside the Gospel, but doing what the Gospel requires of us, which is to love one another, therefore we are not laying aside the Gospel.

The message of the gospel is that mankind lies under the wrath of God because of his ungodliness and wickedness. The same message says that man will be condemned for his refusal to love the truth of God made manifest by God to man by a variety of means. The message of the gospel says that there is but one way for this terrifying misalignment between God and man to be rectified and that way lies in the finished work of Jesus Christ and mans response to Gods attempt to reach out an apply Christs salvific work to him - dead and all in his sin though he is.

Loving others doesn't require that any of the above mentioned be diluted in any way so I'm at a loss to see what unity is possible when the two gospels meet each other. Which is why I suggest the respective gospels be left at the door in which case you're talking sham-unity.

Yes and wherever Vassula goes she gets an equal reception and rejection and trouble arises. take for instance now, when I posted this thread, trouble followed and it wasnt readily accepted, because by preaching unity and love she is preaching the Gospel.

Whilst correct preaching of the correct gospel is sure to result in an antagonistic response from the unbeliever it doesn't follow that an antagonistic response is a sure sign that the correct gospel is being preached.

If she's preaching marianism then she's preaching something that is considered a gross heresy and will be responded to accordingly. This has nothing to do with the gospel.

I accept christian unity but only ''when you accept my dogma''
God has asked us to be loving, not to be more correct viz. our brothers’ faith. In TLIG God asks us 18 not to differentiate among ourselves, but to behave like children. Our differences are not as important to the people, but they remain important to the hierarchy, only. As proof, where the demographics make it possible, Christians intermarry without regard to their denomination.

There is no hierarchy in my church and the differences are important to me. It's not that I can't get on with/find areas of common ground with a Christian who happens to be Catholic but the level of unity will be a product of the manner by which we can agree and vast swathes of RC-ism lay on the other side of a canyon from me.

The unified relationship would, in this instance, be a longish distance one. For example: how do you propose we go out evangelising together? How do you propose we pray together? How do you propose we break bread together, or go to church together?

I disagree with the catholic sacraments
Such objections (and other similar ones, e.g. the role of St. Mary in our lives) are typically concerns of those with a Protestant background. To those we can only say:

We do not agree, but we are not the Judge. Perhaps one day, soon, the Protestant Churches might return to the practice of honoring the Holy Eucharist as was the ancient tradition of the single (unified) Church of old (before the Schism), a tradition that is both recognized by the “Fathers” 20 of the Church, and is reflected in TLIG.

I thought the idea was that, for the purposes of unity, the "war" wouldn't be mentioned. It's this very kind of thing that begs a response, which results in rebuttal, which impinges negatively on the unity sought after. The suggestion was that our respective doctrina be left at the door: your view on the Eucharist and mine, your view on Mary and mine, your view on salvation by.. and mine, your view on what constitutes a saint and mine, your view on the role of the priesthood, tradition, celibacy, the pope, the Bible, baptism, the other 'sacraments'.... and mine.

I see a tea & biscuits and "nice weather we're having" kind of unity. For want of much common ground.

Stephentlig

antiskeptic wrote: »

The message of the gospel is that mankind lies under the wrath of God because of his ungodliness and wickedness. The same message says that man will be condemned for his refusal to love the truth of God made manifest by God to man by a variety of means. The message of the gospel says that there is but one way for this terrifying misalignment between God and man to be rectified and that way lies in the finished work of Jesus Christ and mans response to Gods attempt to reach out an apply Christs salvific work to him - dead and all in his sin though he is.

Loving others doesn't require that any of the above mentioned be diluted in any way so I'm at a loss to see what unity is possible when the two gospels meet each other. Which is why I suggest the respective gospels be left at the door in which case you're talking sham-unity.





Whilst correct preaching of the correct gospel is sure to result in an antagonistic response from the unbeliever it doesn't follow that an antagonistic response is a sure sign that the correct gospel is being preached.

If she's preaching marianism then she's preaching something that is considered a gross heresy and will be responded to accordingly. This has nothing to do with the gospel.





There is no hierarchy in my church and the differences are important to me. It's not that I can't get on with/find areas of common ground with a Christian who happens to be Catholic but the level of unity will be a product of the manner by which we can agree and vast swathes of RC-ism lay on the other side of a canyon from me.

The unified relationship would, in this instance, be a longish distance one. For example: how do you propose we go out evangelising together? How do you propose we pray together? How do you propose we break bread together, or go to church together?





I thought the idea was that, for the purposes of unity, the "war" wouldn't be mentioned. It's this very kind of thing that begs a response, which results in rebuttal, which impinges negatively on the unity sought after. The suggestion was that our respective doctrina be left at the door: your view on the Eucharist and mine, your view on Mary and mine, your view on salvation by.. and mine, your view on what constitutes a saint and mine, your view on the role of the priesthood, tradition, celibacy, the pope, the Bible, baptism, the other 'sacraments'.... and mine.

I see a tea & biscuits and "nice weather we're having" kind of unity. For want of much common ground.

Like I said antiskeptic, within the prayer groups nobody debates doctrine, and nobody is asked to drop their doctrine, but we pray our prayers together, the rosary is a biblical prayer and many protestants dont have a problem reciting scripture.

Its understandable protestants may have a problem with this, but I've already adressed that in the above post.

I refuse to carry on this discussion with you, because nothing is gained from it. why not pose all the questions you may have about it to the TLIG team? or take it to the tlig forum?

http://www.tlig.net/newphpBB2/index.php

as for Marionology or any other part of Catholic Doctrine, if you wish to have a humble debate on such a subject, then please, by all means open up another thread.


I shall pray for you to the Lord, and I humbly request that you do the same for me.

God bless and have a good day antiskeptic.

Stephen.

antiskeptic

Stephentlig wrote: »

Like I said antiskeptic, within the prayer groups nobody debates doctrine, and nobody is asked to drop their doctrine, but we pray our prayers together, the rosary is a biblical prayer and many protestants dont have a problem reciting scripture.

I don't think you understand. A protestants doctrine is pushed out the window in the very act of settling down "in unity" with people he believes to be engaging in heretical prayer. The rosary, for instance, includes the Hail Mary - a prayer which presumes Mary an intercessor between man and God and can't be considered by these "many protestants" as biblical.

Can you see the dilemma? You're supposing unity possible on these terms but are glossing over fatal problems. By all means have you're gatherings but understand they are exercised as a contradiction-in-terms on one or other parties part.

I refuse to carry on this discussion with you, because nothing is gained from it. why not pose all the questions you may have about it to the TLIG team? or take it to the tlig forum?

With respect: folk who claim to be present day messengers from God/perform miracles/issue prophecy are a dime a dozen, as are cultish groupings who proclaim themselves somehow specially anointed/purveyors of insider knowledge. The imprimateur (however restrained) of the Roman Catholic Church is hardly that which would set my fires alight - it is that same body afterall, who pronounce on the equally (if not more) disturbing issues of Lourdes and Fatima.

Stephentlig

antiskeptic wrote: »

I don't think you understand. A protestants doctrine is pushed out the window in the very act of settling down "in unity" with people he believes to be engaging in heretical prayer. The rosary, for instance, includes the Hail Mary - a prayer which presumes Mary an intercessor between man and God and can't be considered by these "many protestants" as biblical.

Can you see the dilemma? You're supposing unity possible on these terms but are glossing over fatal problems. By all means have you're gatherings but understand they are exercised as a contradiction-in-terms on one or other parties part.




With respect: folk who claim to be present day messengers from God/perform miracles/issue prophecy are a dime a dozen, as are cultish groupings who proclaim themselves somehow specially anointed/purveyors of insider knowledge. The imprimateur (however restrained) of the Roman Catholic Church is hardly that which would set my fires alight - it is that same body afterall, who pronounce on the equally (if not more) disturbing issues of Lourdes and Fatima.

Hi antiskeptic

you can express your concerns or any questions you might have about TLIG and put them forward to the TLIG team.

The following is the website
www.tlig.org

upon the website is both a forum and also many contacts whom you can ask questions about TLIG.

God bless and take care
Stephen.

antiskeptic

Stephentlig wrote: »

Hi antiskeptic

you can express your concerns or any questions you might have about TLIG and put them forward to the TLIG team.

The following is the website
www.tlig.org

upon the website is both a forum and also many contacts whom you can ask questions about TLIG.

God bless and take care
Stephen.

Why should I suppose myself to have any more joy there when someone familiar enough with it's workings and a poster on it's discussion forum isn't able to answer direct questions here.

The scriptural precedent is that the holder of the light go out into the world revealing it - not waiting for someone to knock ot his door. It's a more difficult task and it would result in your beliefs being exposed to a wealth of informed enquiry. If it's not up to that enquiry then you'd do well to desist in promoting it.

For example: what possible reason have I to take, what Vassula claims to be conversations with God, with more than a pinch of salt. There isn't an apostolic whiff of authenticity about her credentials. It's merely a claim.

Stephentlig

antiskeptic wrote: »

Why should I suppose myself to have any more joy there when someone familiar enough with it's workings and a poster on it's discussion forum isn't able to answer direct questions here.

The scriptural precedent is that the holder of the light go out into the world revealing it - not waiting for someone to knock ot his door. It's a more difficult task and it would result in your beliefs being exposed to a wealth of informed enquiry. If it's not up to that enquiry then you'd do well to desist in promoting it.

For example: what possible reason have I to take, what Vassula claims to be conversations with God, with more than a pinch of salt. There isn't an apostolic whiff of authenticity about her credentials. It's merely a claim.

Hi antiskeptic,

I refuse to entertain you because I'm having to reiterate what I say, your more than welcome to come over to the boards and express your concerns or questions there, or at least e-mail one of the team.

my duty is not to convince you of their authenticity, but only to inform.
In no way shape or form am I here to debate their authenticity.
you are free to beleive or not to beleive. I leave that up to you.

God bless
Stephen.

P.s: its unfortunate you turned down my invitation to be friends on the board, I do recall you saying earliar that you get on well with all Christians.

antiskeptic

Stephentlig wrote: »

Hi antiskeptic, I refuse to entertain you because I'm having to reiterate what I say, your more than welcome to come over to the boards and express your concerns or questions there, or at least e-mail one of the team.

Thanks but no. I prefer engaging unbelievers in the main.

my duty is not to convince you of their authenticity, but only to inform.

A curious position to take in an era when we are bombarded with folk telling us that x,y and z is true. But as you will; for want of any reason to suppose this womans conversations with God authentic ( and a fair few reasons to suppose them not) I'll suppose them not.

P.s: its unfortunate you turned down my invitation to be friends on the board, I do recall you saying earliar that you get on well with all Christians.

I'm afraid I haven't turned anything down, friendship with you or otherwise. That said, I don't tend much to the idea of facebook styles of friendship - friendship at the click of a button and the like leave me scratching my head.

Call me old fashioned, but friends are people I actually know.



God bless you. If not your TLIG movement.

Stephentlig

A curious position to take in an era when we are bombarded with folk telling us that x,y and z is true. But as you will; for want of any reason to suppose this womans conversations with God authentic ( and a fair few reasons to suppose them not) I'll suppose them not.

I do beleive in their authenticity, but do not try to convince people of their authenticity and force them to beleive in it.

God bless and take care.
Stephen