Argentina invited to join Tri-Nations

Cool_CM

Breakingnews.ie wrote:

Argentina have been invited to join New Zealand, Australia and South Africa in a new Four Nations tournament from 2012.

The competition will replace the existing Tri Nations, but Argentina will only be accepted if they satisfy conditions which include guaranteeing that their strongest side is available.

SANZAR, which comprises the New Zealand, Australian and South African rugby unions, will have the final say on whether Argentina fulfil the entry requirements.

SANZAR chief executive Andy Marinos said: “To have the Pumas, currently ranked sixth in the world, join with the three top ranked international teams in world rugby will be exciting for fans, players, sponsors and broadcasters across our four countries and beyond.

“They play a different style to the All Blacks, Springboks and Wallabies and their inclusion will see the Tri Nations evolve to be a truly southern hemisphere championship.”

Australian Rugby Union chief executive John O’Neill said: “Argentina has shown commitment, passion and a work ethic to date that highlights their desire to have the Pumas playing at the highest level possible on a consistent basis.

“Australia is excited by the possibility of having the Pumas in a Four Nations Championship.

“It is important therefore, with a conditional invitation on the table, for Argentina to keep moving forward and satisfying the necessary conditions.”

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/pumas-handed-fournations-invite-426258.html

Should be interesting to see how things pan out logistically, but all in all great news for the competition and for Argentinian rugby.

Edit: also Tri Nations site link: http://www.trinationsweb.com/news/viewarticle.asp?id=22145

Argentina has been invited to join World Cup champion South Africa, Australia and New Zealand in an expanded Four Nations rugby series from 2012.

SANZAR, the group which runs international and provincial tournaments involving South Africa, Australia and New Zealand, said Monday it has extended a conditional invitation for Argentina to join the established Tri-Nations countries after the next World Cup.

The officials said Argentina will be asked to guarantee the participation of their best players to play in the Four Nations, and that Argentinian players will be given the opportunity to play in the Super 15 tournament on club teams from South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

The format for the FourNations would see each team playing on a home-and-away basis - six matches per team and 12 matches overall.

Andy Marinos, acting managing director of SA Rugby and chief executive of SANZAR, said Argentina would provide a contrast in playing style to the three existing teams.

"To have the Pumas, third at Rugby World Cup 2007 and currently ranked sixth in the world, join with the three top-ranked international teams in world rugby will be exciting for fans, players, sponsors and broadcasters across our four countries and beyond," Marinos said.

"They play a different style to the All Blacks, Springboks and Wallabies and their inclusion will see the Tri-Nations evolve to be a truly southern hemisphere championship."

The Four Nations would be played from mid-August (following the end of the new Super rugby competition) for an eight- or nine-week period until early to mid-October. In a Rugby World Cup year, an abbreviated format will be played through July and August.

Porfirio Carrera, president of the Union Argentina de Rugby (UAR) called the invitation a "momentous time for rugby" in his country.

Agustin Pichot, captain of the Pumas at the 2007 Rugby World Cup and now a member of Argentine rugby's high performance board, said the decision will mean an increased level of interest in the sport in his country.

"We are delighted to have the chance to become a great rugby nation and to play in top-level international rugby," Pichot said.

"This exciting development will be vital to grow the game in Argentina. This is historic and everyone in Argentina should be proud."

The Australian Rugby Union said in a statement it has encouraged Argentina to continue the "hard work required" to meet SANZAR financial conditions that would allow the Pumas to play in the Tri-Nations.

"Argentina has shown commitment, passion and a work ethic to date that highlights their desire to have the Pumas playing at the highest level possible on a consistent basis," ARU chief executive John O'Neill said.

"It is important therefore, with a conditional invitation on the table, for Argentina to keep moving forward and satisfying the necessary conditions."

Argentina played its first international rugby match in 1910 against a touring British Isles team. It is has competed in all six World Cup tournaments played since 1987, with its best finish coming in a run to the semifinals in France two years ago.

The most elite of the Argentine players have contracts with European clubs, but the Pumas have had limited exposure to tournament-style international competition.

The top six European countries play an annual Six Nations tournament, which was established long before SANZAR turned independent tours by southern teams into an annual Tri-Nations tournament in the 1990s.

B0X

Thank god! It was terrible that there was a top tier rugby team without any yearly competition. I wonder how they'll fare with the time differences though.

OldJay

B0X wrote: »

I wonder how they'll fare with the time differences though.

?? How do you mean?
It wouldn't be much different to a South African playing in Wellington.

PhatPiggins

About time that pig headed egomaniac O'Neil finally realised that playing the Boks and Kiwis 36 times a season isn't the way to increase public interest.

No reason the Argies cant be at full strength for this. They're going to take a few 40 point beatings for the first four years though.

KarlNedCarew

PhatPiggins wrote: »

No reason the Argies cant be at full strength for this. They're going to take a few 40 point beatings for the first four years though.

I'd say the reason that the clause was put in is because most of their squad plays abroad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_national_rugby_union_team#Current_squad

OldJay

PhatPiggins wrote: »

No reason the Argies cant be at full strength for this

Actually there is a real potential headache here. Club/Franchise v Country will rear its head again.
A privately-owned rugby union club such as in England or France will be very reluctant to let one of their players play all-year round. To avoid this problem an Argentinian player would have to play in a Super 14 franchise and I don't think the relevant franchises have the money to be to afford these players.

emergingstar

bout time they got the chance to play in a yearly comp

Depp

About ****ing time

Tim Robbins

Justind wrote: »

To avoid this problem an Argentinian player would have to play in a Super 14 franchise and I don't think the relevant franchises have the money to be to afford these players.

Really. Why not?
I think we'll see the top Argentinian players play for Top 14 franchises.
If they can get 20 Argentinian players over the 14 clubs, then all will be fine.

OldJay

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Really. Why not?

Because their unions are not exactly flush these days. Both in Australia and New Zealand.

All well and good if not a problem, of course. Argentina do need top flight regular annual competition. And the Tri Nations needs a breath of fresh air.

Max Power1

About time tbh, this has been suggested around rugby fans and pundits for years. Great move for the tournament, for Argentina, and the sport in general

OldJay

PhatPiggins wrote: »

About time that pig headed egomaniac O'Neil finally realised that playing the Boks and Kiwis 36 times a season isn't the way to increase public interest

The head of SANZAR is a South African and it is he who presides over decisions such as this. Not the head of the ARU.

CJhaughey

The biggest obstacle to the Argentinians playing in the Tri-nations won't be the availability of the players it will be whether the UAR will be able to make the grade, they are still amateur AFAIK and this has led to a lot of negotiations breaking down.
It would be nice to see them competing in the competition and would do a lot for the game, and the finances of the respective unions, which is probably the object of the proposal.

thebaz

Great news - it will be good for tri nations - watching SA v the All Blacks or Aus., used to be a special treat , rather than a weeky occurance - pity the Pacific Islanders cant join in, somehow

Real FM

The Pacific Islanders are playing in The Tri Nations - They're all put together on this team called New Zealand!

Amazotheamazing

Real FM wrote: »

The Pacific Islanders are playing in The Tri Nations - They're all put together on this team called New Zealand!

Rubbish, most of the players who end up playing for either New Zealand or for one of the Island teams are actually from New Zealand. New Zealand have loads of their players "poached" by the Islands, year in, year out and no one bats an eyelid. The Auckland born Isa Nacewa is an example of this type of poaching.

CJhaughey

Real FM wrote: »

The Pacific Islanders are playing in The Tri Nations - They're all put together on this team called New Zealand!

Bla bla change the record that ones old.

tHE vAGGABOND

Very clever move by SANZAR - get a load of new blood into the competition alongside the S14 expansion to 15 clubs [new Melbourne Franchise]

For this to work, loads/most of the Argentine players will have to move to that competition for it to work tbh - cant see it working any other way tbh.

Hope it does work out - great for world rugby..

Madworld

I have to say its great news.

I'd also hope lead to the establishment of a S14 franchise in Argentina at some stage.

d'Oracle

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The Auckland born Isa Nacewa is an example of this type of poaching.

Matamata.
And he never would have made the AB's.

Rocokoko
Sivivatu
Jerry Collins
Tuigamala
Ieremia
So'oialo
Schwalger

All born in the islands.

Blut

Good news for both Argentina and Rugby in general.

What are the chances of an Argentinian team being founded to take a place in the Super14? It would help get all their players home from the Northern Hemisphere and onto a more suitable timetable for the Four-Nations quickly.

Stev_o

d'Oracle wrote: »

Matamata.
And he never would have made the AB's.

Rocokoko
Sivivatu
Jerry Collins
Tuigamala
Ieremia
So'oialo
Schwalger

All born in the islands.

And all grew up in New Zealand.

OldJay

d'Oracle wrote: »

Rocokoko
Sivivatu
Jerry Collins
Tuigamala
Ieremia
So'oialo
Schwalger

All born in the islands

. . . and all raised in New Zealand except for Sivivatu who is a naturalised Kiwi through over a decade of residency.

Ronan O'Gara and Jamie Heaslip were both born overseas. Whats the difference between Jamie Heaslip and Jez Collins, for example? Was Spike Milligan 'Indian'?

People tend to overlook that people from various Pacific islands migrate to New Zealand, Australia, Canada and the States just like anyone else seeking a decent life, be it out of necessity or choice.

Real FM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Rubbish, most of the players who end up playing for either New Zealand or for one of the Island teams are actually from New Zealand. New Zealand have loads of their players "poached" by the Islands, year in, year out and no one bats an eyelid. The Auckland born Isa Nacewa is an example of this type of poaching.

...Deep breath...and relax. That's better now, isn't it?

sock puppet

Justind wrote: »

. . . and all raised in New Zealand except for Sivivatu who is a naturalised Kiwi through over a decade of residency.

Ronan O'Gara and Jamie Heaslip were both born overseas. Whats the difference between Jamie Heaslip and Jez Collins, for example? Was Spike Milligan 'Indian'?

People tend to overlook that people from various Pacific islands migrate to New Zealand, Australia, Canada and the States just like anyone else seeking a decent life, be it out of necessity or choice.

Exactly. The NZRU are hardly going to apologise for New Zealand being a wealthy country. It'd be great if Argentina could establish a professional team. Maybe after a few years of playing in the Tri-Nations they'll have the cash, or are there other bigger problems for them?

CJhaughey

New Zealand is a modern first world country, people have options open to them for work, study etc when they move there from the Islands. If you have ever been to Auckland you will know that it is actually like a giant melting pot of Pacific Island culture, Not just Samoa,Fiji and Tonga, but also other pacific islands.
Enoch Powell would be thanking some of you.

Real FM

I think some people need to discover the wonders of Vallium. I said absolutely nothing about poaching or stealing...simply pointed out that a lot of people for the Pacific Islands play for NZ.

Amazotheamazing

Real FM wrote: »

...Deep breath...and relax. That's better now, isn't it?

Not really, you're still clinging to your mistaken beliefs, how will i ever rest in the knowledge that someone on the internet is wrong....

Amazotheamazing

Real FM wrote: »

I think some people need to discover the wonders of Vallium. I said absolutely nothing about poaching or stealing...simply pointed out that a lot of people for the Pacific Islands play for NZ.

Because they are born or raised in New Zealand? A lot of Irish people play for Ireland too, you should start a thread about that.

what about all the New Zealanders playing for the Islands?

toomevara

Bloody delighted, great news for International Rugby Union, and the moribund tri-nations. Hope this goes a way towards allowing the game in Argentina to go fully professional.

Stev_o

Actually thinking about it know SANZAR should of invited Argentina Jaguars into S14 as a extra franchise, i know they are a International A side but they acquitted themselves very well in the CC.

funnyname

They need to have at least two Super 15 teams in Argentina for it to really work, but that would mean reducing the number of teams from the other countries as expanding it to 17 would lead to too many games.

Real FM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Because they are born or raised in New Zealand?

No. Once again since you missed it the first time. My point was simply that a lot of players from the Pacific Islands play for NZ. Nothing more. Nothing less.

It was just a joke so take it easy and grab hold of that knee before it starts jerking again.

Amazotheamazing

Real FM wrote: »

No. Once again since you missed it the first time. My point was simply that a lot of players from the Pacific Islands play for NZ. Nothing more. Nothing less.

It was just a joke so take it easy and grab hold of that knee before it starts jerking again.

Aren't jokes supposed to be funny? Or did you really think you were making a pithy observation on the ethnicity of the multi-cultural nation that is New Zealand? The stand up comedy forum is where a man with your talents should spend his time, if Meave Higgins can manage a living from it, you'll be the new Connolly. I actually thought you were just recycling a cliche that you picked up off Stephen Jones. Glad you've cleared things up.

Anyhow, on to the Argentina being in the new four nations, will be a culture shock to Argentina, the UAR isn't known for being massively professional.

Real FM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Aren't jokes supposed to be funny? Or did you really think you were making a pithy observation on the ethnicity of the multi-cultural nation that is New Zealand? The stand up comedy forum is where a man with your talents should spend his time, if Meave Higgins can manage a living from it, you'll be the new Connolly. I actually thought you were just recycling a cliche that you picked up off Stephen Jones. Glad you've cleared things up.

Shot to the heart.

FridaysWell

Argentina in the Tri Nations. Long overdue.


A bit like this post. . .

RuggieBear

back to the topic please.

Crash

Stop, the pair of you.

FridaysWell

RuggieBear wrote: »

back to the topic please.

Off topic how?

Or am I mistaken? Forgive me if I am.

tHE vAGGABOND

They need to have at least two Super 15 teams in Argentina for it to really work

I was told by an Argentine I played with in London that Argentine rugby is 99% amateur - and there is very little apatite to change that.

So loads of Argentine players going to the 15 other teams is the best idea in the short term anyway.

RuggieBear

FridaysWell wrote: »

Off topic how?

Or am I mistaken? Forgive me if I am.

not you...the posts before you

FridaysWell

RuggieBear wrote: »

not you...the posts before you

Apologies

Back to the matter at hand. Argentina in the Tri Nations will improve the profile of the game in South America hugely.

In a few years the Americans and the Canadians could be knocking on the door of the 6N. Silly but. . .

Ya never know!!

thebossanova

FridaysWell wrote: »

Apologies

Back to the matter at hand. Argentina in the Tri Nations will improve the profile of the game in South America hugely.

In a few years the Americans and the Canadians could be knocking on the door of the 6N. Silly but. . .

Ya never know!!

Don't even go there. 6 nations can't take another team, it already eats a chunk out of the club season.

The next step for the 6 Nations, and the soon to be 4 Nations, is a relegation/promotion arrangement with B tournaments. There's already a 6 nations B tournament with Georgia, Portugal etc...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Nations_Cup_%28rugby_union%29 no reason why we shouldn't have the winner promoted and the last team in 6 Nations demoted. This would promote more competitiveness, although I could see some uproar from hardliners if Scotland went down.
And a similar situation could be done in the Southern Hemisphere, once the '4 Nations' is expanded to a 5/6 nations tournament as well.

But all of this is just idealistic on my part, and a lot of it is very far off, if even on the cards.

Canadians etc.. would be included in the '4 Nations' B tournament for me.

Cool_CM

If this does happen it will be a long, long way off. There is no competition in promoting a whipping boy every season and demoting a team who is going to demolish the lower tier of European Rugby, whilst they lose out on sponsorship and TV rights deals and have to pay more to fly further afield to play, which could inevitably weaken the nation in the long term. You saw how long it took Italy to get into the 5/6 Nations, nevermind become respected as opposition who could actually cause the bigger nations trouble and sometimes beat them. The 6 nations has done wonders for Italian rugby, but that didn't happen in the space of a season. This is why there is no sense in bringing in a promotion/demotion situation where teams swap tiers for a season before moving back as it will not serve either team or league well.

funky penguin

I am extremely happy for Argentina. Hopefully they can make a good impact.

On the other hand, this is going to make them even harder to beat!

AbusesToilets

Seems like a good idea but i feel that in the long run it's the wrong option. I think the goal of development would be be better served by having a tournament for the Americas, an international 6 nations style tournament with Argentina, USA, Canada, Uruguay and whoever else. Along with this you could have a top level club tournament ala Super 14.
A set up like this would be better for everyone as it would mitigate the problems associated with traveling over different times zomes, pump resources into countries that are in need of them and have a large capacity for growth and serve to better promote rugby in these countries. Argentina would dominate to begin with but as was stated elsewhere, their setup is largely amateur, similiar to that in the other countries in the Americas. Having a native international competition along with a professional league would go a long way to improving the standards of the other American countries, moreso than the likes of the Churchill Cup etc. A set up along those i've outlined would be a better fit i feel than just tossing them into the very advanced and professional world of SANZAR.

murphym7

Sorry for digging up an old thread - did not make sense to create a new one.

Looks like they are probably going to join in 2012 all going well - fair play to them and I wish them well. Below is from Breakingnews.ie


Argentina today moved a step closer to competing in an expanded Four Nations tournament with Australia, New Zealand and Australia after the International Rugby Board changed a regulation on player availability.

One of the conditions set by SANZAR, the body which governs the Tri Nations, for Argentina to join was they would be able to secure the availability of their best players.

With the decision of the IRB council today, which shifts the release period for international players in line with the dates for the new tournament – from late August until early October – the way has been paved for Argentina to join the fray in 2012.

Steve Tew, chief executive of SANZAR and New Zealand Rugby Union, said: “This is an exciting step for SANZAR and for world rugby, as it confirms Argentina’s participation in a top-flight rugby competition, which they thoroughly deserve, and will add a dynamic new element to the current Tri Nations, which is already regarded as one of the world’s toughest tournaments.

“We now need to finalise a participation agreement with the UAR so we can move to full planning for the introduction of Argentina in 2012.”


http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/argentina-move-closer-to-four-nations-457437.html

thomond2006

murphym7 wrote: »

With the decision of the IRB council today, which shifts the release period for international players in line with the dates for the new tournament – from late August until early October – the way has been paved for Argentina to join the fray in 2012.

That's an 'African Cup of Nations' situation for European clubs every year then.

CatFromHue

i suppose it all depends on how the new tournament is structured.

obviously playing each team three times is out. thank god!

but with 4 teams they can now have 2 games a weekend which should condense it a bit too.

BUT what happens then with the november internationals? will argentina play them?

cos that would make it a big problem for the players clubs having players coming back to them after 3 1/2 high intensity international games!

say a home and way game for each team