The unfairs of the Rates system in Ireland

MrPint

Hello all,
First time poster, been reading for a while but apologies if this is in the wrong forum.

Why are rates here set at a given amount and not as a percentage of profit, which seems much fairer. Having to pay rates even if you are making a small loss puts an extreme pressure on your business and may make you cut staff and so on which will inturn decrease turnover further, lesssen employment, worse customer etc.
What can be done about this infair system?

all the best

MrPint

conman

i'd agree with you... i dont know what can be done about it tho... but i think that our guv/system stifles new business startups and small businesses.

for instance in the UK, the gov will guarantee a loan up to 1million pound sterling, so if it falls flat on its face, the entrepreneur comes out of it still standing.. this type of scheme if implemented correctly encourages people to create businesses, and would work well with the rates system you suggested.

the more profitable the business, the more you pay.

MrPint

Hello Conman,
Thats what I mean, there is no incentive to promote business and hence employment and all its benefits to the GOV. Rates Should be percentage of profit, in these times even more so. I was wondering how to go about getting these old and stale methods of collecting for the Gov coffers changed?
Does it start by getting your local TD, CC, Major involved, maybe start a petition for all those rate payers out there who want a change?

all the best

MrPint

patftrears

conman wrote: »

i'd agree with you... i dont know what can be done about it tho... but i think that our guv/system stifles new business startups and small businesses.

for instance in the UK, the gov will guarantee a loan up to 1million pound sterling, so if it falls flat on its face, the entrepreneur comes out of it still standing.. this type of scheme if implemented correctly encourages people to create businesses, and would work well with the rates system you suggested.

the more profitable the business, the more you pay.

I have never heard of that 1 million guarantee, I worked and started companies in the UK for 5 years.

conman

patftrears wrote: »

I have never heard of that 1 million guarantee, I worked and started companies in the UK for 5 years.

i never heard of it until recently when a business person over there told me he was able to get it and as a result he set up his company.

it might be a new thing.. but its not something i have researched.

What ???

Are you serious Conman ? There has got be something amiss here.

conman

Deleted User wrote: »

What ???

Are you serious Conman ? There has got be something amiss here.

there could be, like i said, i didnt research it or anything... just one of the people i spoke to in the UK said it does exist.. i know nothing further than this..

i might go look it up out of curiousity tho

conman

Under the Enterprise Finance Guarantee, the Government will guarantee lending to viable businesses to ensure that they can get the working capital and investment that they need.

This £1.3bn scheme will support bank lending, of 3 months to 10 year maturity, to UK businesses with a turnover of up to £25 million who are currently not easily able to access the finance they need. It will enable them to secure loans of between £1,000 and £1 million through the Government guarantee and is available up to 31 March 2010.

The guarantee can be used to support new loans, to refinance existing loans where the loan is at risk due to deteriorating quality of security and also to allow lenders to restructure a borrower’s debt where appropriate,or to convert an existing overdraft into a loan to release capacity to meet working capital requirements.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/enterprise/enterprisesmes/info-business-owners/access-to-finance/efg/page37607.html

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im not sure yet what exactly the guarantee is from the above, whether it means money will be there for them in the banks (made available by the gov), or whether the gov will cover any liabilities from an unsuccessful startup, or both.

DubTony

conman wrote: »

im not sure yet what exactly the guarantee is from the above, whether it means money will be there for them in the banks (made available by the gov), or whether the gov will cover any liabilities from an unsuccessful startup, or both.

That looks like it's for viable businesses already operating and finding it difficult to get credit for expansion or simply some working capital. Doesn't look like it's for startups.

conman

DubTony wrote: »

That looks like it's for viable businesses already operating and finding it difficult to get credit for expansion or simply some working capital. Doesn't look like it's for startups.

i read a few other sites, its for entrepreneurs etc too.. basically for sme's and start ups.

DubTony

To the OP.

Rates are set by local councils using some mystical formula they magic up out of thin air. I had a business in a backwater outside Dublin and paid over 9K a year. As householders don't pay rates it's all left to businesses. That's why every apartment block built during the boom had a couple of retail units stuck underneath. IKEA breaks all the rules when it comes to the retail planning guidelines. Why? RATES !!!

Councils will take whatever money they have coming toward the year end and use it to resurface a few roads, paint a few stripes or replace a few poles in order to ensure that they have the same or a bigger budget the following year. "We spent X last year so with added expenses and inflation, we'll need Y next year." And rates go up.

There's nothing logical about it. As for getting a break from a council on rates? Forget it. If you're using their services, i.e. the parking space outside your building and the road that leads to it, they want payment. No deals from politicians, but then you knew that already

MrPint

Hello DubTony,
Agreed about the uselessness of the majority of TD's.(Sack half of them for a start for some gov savings). Roads we pay for by Road/motor tax( are we being taxed twice?). FAS workers are cleaning the street( at least here). The buildings that generally pay rates are supplying a service/jobs/amenity to a local community so there is value right there in VAT and taxes. I'm not against rates, I would just like them to be fair ie. a percentage of profit.
I believe that the people should refuse to pay the rates until they are assesed fairly. The system at present is not much short of a tyrant demanding his dues, with no accountability.
The CC here at least is a bloated pig that spends its money on large fancy(now empty) buildings for its underworked staff. Giving a ****e to the people it is supposed serve.
A bit of a rant now so i'll stop for cuppa:D

all the best

Mr.Pint