Swine flu,Why has the government ignored vitamin d

uprising

I heard on the news the government has aquired some swine flu vaccinations, is there a cover-up of other safer alternative's to the vaccine, mainly Vitamin D.

Here's the HSE swine flu info, not a whisper about the proven benefits of vitamin D.
http://www.hse.ie/eng/swineflu/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i2o2cht8xY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--NqqB2nhBE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcqG76TgXjM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpQ4HMfi3gs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMdX_tqZk_0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1PvTL4ikEw

MidnightQueen

If it is a cure then why the hell are they forking out loads of money.

uprising

KittyKat wrote: »

If it is a cure then why the hell are they forking out loads of money.

I don't know, your guess is as good as mine, but I think they should have at least mentioned that vitamin D has beneficial effects on the immune system, and some doctor's are of the opinion that it prevents as well as kills the swine flu cell's.

The government has spent millions on this untested vaccine, I believe they now have this vaccine in their possesion, but with the scientific knowledge possesed about this vitamin, why havent they even given it one or two small paragraph's in the library of leaflets and information they have printed.

I am not giving medical advice but I think people should look into this themselves and decide for themselves before being frightened into getting a jab with unknown short or long term possible adverse affects, after all it's only your's and your families health at risk.

Well seen this is conspiracy theories I'll say there is a conspiracy of silence about anything of benefit which doesn't come from the multinational pharmacutical companies. Our bodies and immune system are really great at looking after each other.

I've been taking 5000iu of vitamin D per day for the past couple of weeks and now I'm going to go one step further and try catch swine flu from the first person I come across who contracts it, I'll intentionally do everything possible to try catch it, just to test my theory, I'll be my own guinepig.

EDIT: To prove I am serious, if anybody reading this know's anybody that currently has swine flu and would be willing to infect me please contact me. All in the name of science of course.

meglome

uprising wrote: »

I've been taking 5000iu of vitamin D per day for the past couple of weeks and now I'm going to go one step further and try catch swine flu from the first person I come across who contracts it, I'll intentionally do everything possible to try catch it, just to test my theory, I'll be my own guinepig.

EDIT: To prove I am serious, if anybody reading this know's anybody that currently has swine flu and would be willing to infect me please contact me. All in the name of science of course.

Uprising I implore you not to do this. And besides only a small percentage of people die form swine flu anyway so it wouldn't prove anything.

uprising

meglome wrote: »

Uprising I implore you not to do this. And besides only a small percentage of people die form swine flu anyway so it wouldn't prove anything.

So why are governments all over the globe spending billions on the vaccine and in some cases forcing vaccination?, does it not seem a little strange that in these times of financial difficulty they spend so much on vaccines and scaremongering for something that isn't really that big a deal after all, and by the way my lung's wouldn't be the best pair on the planet, I've smoked since I'm 9 years old, I'm 34 now, so I've been smoking 25 years.

But still the offer remains.
Another thing I'd like to see is the government and HSE chiefs who payed for and pushed this vaccine rolling up their sleeves and getting jabbed with it themselves on television, put 1000 bottles of "real" vaccine from various clinics and doctors surgeries from around the country into a bag and let them pic a random dose out, ohh and for good measure they can take their extended family with them and all get it together.
After all what harm can it do?

Shepherd3

meglome wrote: »

Uprising I implore you not to do this. And besides only a small percentage of people die form swine flu anyway so it wouldn't prove anything.

At least he's willing to take on big pharma.

Torakx

you sir are brave hehe.
im sure if your young ish and healthy ish you would survive it no prob anyway just have a horrible few weeks or however long it lasts.

at the same time i say that i wouldnt go near it lol
the really really brave(possibly stupid) person for me is the one testing the vaccine

So how do you know these scientists aren't lying like you think all the ones saying vaccines are good are lying?

kmick

Vitamin D is fat soluble which means it is stored by the body whereas something like vitmain C gets peed out. If you told people Vitd was a cure/propylactic for Swine Flu within a few days nutters all over the place would be turning up at A&E
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_D

samson09

kmick wrote: »

If you told people Vitd was a cure/propylactic for Swine Flu within a few days nutters all over the place would be turning up at A&E
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_D

Taking up to 5,000 IU of Vit. D a day is safe as this is roughly how much is utilised by the body on a daily basis. If you take more than that you need to regularly monitor 25 hydroxy D levels in the blood to ensure you keep within the optimum range.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/08/27/canada-looks-at-vitamin-d-for-swine-flu-protection.aspx

If people were properly informed about Vit D3 then it would be unlikely that "nutters all over the place" would take too much, which is possible but very hard to do unless you are taking gigantic doses.

Uprising: be careful. Just because you are taking 5000 IU a day does not mean you are immune form the swine flu. You need to check your blood levels to make sure they are in the appropriate range first. You may still be deficient which is likely with the summer we just had, unless you've been off sunning your arse away in some exotic location for the last few weeks!

From www.vitamindcouncil.org

"How To Get Enough Vitamin D

There are 3 ways for adults to insure adequate levels of vitamin

•regularly receive midday sun exposure in the late spring, summer, and early fall, exposing as much of the skin as possible.
•regularly use a sun bed (avoiding sunburn) during the colder months.
•take 5,000 IU per day for three months, then obtain a 25-hydroxyvitamin D test. Adjust your dosage so that blood levels are between 50–80 ng/mL (or 125–200 nM/L) year-round."

j1smithy

Why would someone need to take Vitamin D. It can be synthesised within the body with exposure to sunlight.

I disagree fundamentally with the idea that the vaccine isn't safe. The "recipe" used is almost the exact same as the annual flu vaccine apart from it being tailored to H1N1. Yes some people will have an adverse reaction to it, a subset of which may even be serious however that's the risk associated with all medications. Every drug has unwanted side effects, Viagra was originally to be a treatment for angina until it was discovered to have other properties. The reasons governments are so worried about this is the potential havoc widespread flu would cause. Lost work time and severe strain on health services being two. Using health science to protect people is a noble thing to do, not evil. You conspiracy theorists would think there was an even bigger conspiracy if they weren't giving it out free. Only the rich are being protected you'd say. With you people there's no winning tbh. I'm waiting for RTDH to say they're going to use this opportunity to implant RFID chips in us all, its only a matter of time.

Some of the videos you posted seem more like an ad for the online shops associated with the websites. TheDr.com also promotes alternate medicine, which the mainstream scientific community views with suspicion (ie helps separate gullible people from their money). It would seem you have been a victim of advertising.

uprising

King Mob wrote: »

So how do you know these scientists aren't lying like you think all the ones saying vaccines are good are lying?

That's what I intend on finding out, not with word's but action's, and will use my own body as the test subject, not somebody else's. So I plan on keeping my Vitamin D intake at 5,000 IU or up it to 10,000 IU per day having read this:
The recommended daily allowance is 400 IU per day. Overdose has been observed at 1925 µg/d (77,000 IU per day). Acute overdose requires between 15,000 µg/d (600,000 IU per day) and 42,000 µg/d (1,680,000 IU per day) over a period of several days to months, with a safe intake level being 250 µg/d (10,000 IU per day).

And whenever swine flu comes my way I'll do my best to get infected, actually I don't think I will even get infected or if I do it will be very mild, but who know's.
And my wife and baby are away for a month so I can quarentine myself no problem, so I don't infect anybody else.

If I don't make it, don't send flowers, send donations to psychosis research....:pac::pac::pac:

uprising

j1smithy wrote: »

Why would someone need to take Vitamin D. It can be synthesised within the body with exposure to sunlight.

I disagree fundamentally with the idea that the vaccine isn't safe. The "recipe" used is almost the exact same as the annual flu vaccine apart from it being tailored to H1N1. Yes some people will have an adverse reaction to it, a subset of which may even be serious however that's the risk associated with all medications. Every drug has unwanted side effects, Viagra was originally to be a treatment for angina until it was discovered to have other properties. The reasons governments are so worried about this is the potential havoc widespread flu would cause. Lost work time and severe strain on health services being two. Using health science to protect people is a noble thing to do, not evil. You conspiracy theorists would think there was an even bigger conspiracy if they weren't giving it out free. Only the rich are being protected you'd say. With you people there's no winning tbh. I'm waiting for RTDH to say they're going to use this opportunity to implant RFID chips in us all, its only a matter of time.

Some of the videos you posted seem more like an ad for the online shops associated with the websites. TheDr.com also promotes alternate medicine, which the mainstream scientific community views with suspicion (ie helps separate gullible people from their money). It would seem you have been a victim of advertising.

Will you cop on, you call me gullible because I view big pharma with suspicion, big pharma is the undisputed champion in seperating gullible people with their money....Here take a look at this for good measure.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cphkD-9NUe8

uprising

uprising wrote: »

That's what I intend on finding out, not with word's but action's, and will use my own body as the test subject, not somebody else's. So I plan on keeping my Vitamin D intake at 5,000 IU or up it to 10,000 IU per day having read this:
The recommended daily allowance is 400 IU per day. Overdose has been observed at 1925 µg/d (77,000 IU per day). Acute overdose requires between 15,000 µg/d (600,000 IU per day) and 42,000 µg/d (1,680,000 IU per day) over a period of several days to months, with a safe intake level being 250 µg/d (10,000 IU per day).

And whenever swine flu comes my way I'll do my best to get infected, actually I don't think I will even get infected or if I do it will be very mild, but who know's.
And my wife and baby are away for a month so I can quarentine myself no problem, so I don't infect anybody else.

If I don't make it, don't send flowers, send donations to psychosis research....:pac::pac::pac:

Well since you've already demonstrated your lack of scientific knowledge, I really should point out the obvious to you.

That's not how you do science.

Without double blinding your "experiment" will be completely an unverifiable anecdote at best.

And that still doesn't answer the question I asked.
Why do you trust these scientists but not others?

uprising

King Mob wrote: »

Well since you've already demonstrated your lack of scientific knowledge, I really should point out the obvious to you.

That's not how you do science.

Without double blinding your "experiment" will be completely an unverifiable anecdote at best.

And that still doesn't answer the question I asked.
Why do you trust these scientists but not others?

Listen your the one who makes stupid posts and backtracks with all type of but this, and but that,.... nonsense. I think your still a little sore from when I pulled your post apart and showed it for the tripe it was, get over it.
You are a waste of my time, so don't bother posting to me in future, as King Nob no longer has any credibility in my eyes.
Have a nice day.

thecommander

uprising wrote: »

You are a waste of my time, so don't bother posting to me in future, as King Nob no longer has any credibility in my eyes.
Have a nice day.

Well can I ask then. How come you trust these scientists but don't trust others. What is the basis for your trust?

samson09

j1smithy wrote: »

Why would someone need to take Vitamin D. It can be synthesised within the body with exposure to sunlight.

I disagree fundamentally with the idea that the vaccine isn't safe. The "recipe" used is almost the exact same as the annual flu vaccine apart from it being tailored to H1N1. Yes some people will have an adverse reaction to it, a subset of which may even be serious however that's the risk associated with all medications. Every drug has unwanted side effects, Viagra was originally to be a treatment for angina until it was discovered to have other properties. The reasons governments are so worried about this is the potential havoc widespread flu would cause. Lost work time and severe strain on health services being two. Using health science to protect people is a noble thing to do, not evil. You conspiracy theorists would think there was an even bigger conspiracy if they weren't giving it out free. Only the rich are being protected you'd say. With you people there's no winning tbh. I'm waiting for RTDH to say they're going to use this opportunity to implant RFID chips in us all, its only a matter of time.

Some of the videos you posted seem more like an ad for the online shops associated with the websites. TheDr.com also promotes alternate medicine, which the mainstream scientific community views with suspicion (ie helps separate gullible people from their money). It would seem you have been a victim of advertising.

Most people don't get enough sun exposure in Summer, in Winter you're getting even less.

See http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/ for more on this.

The vaccine is not the same as the seasonal flu vaccine, it has the added benefit of squalene which was previously banned for use in the UK and USA after it was linked to causing Gulf War syndrome. The data on its safety is sparse and comes from research carried out by the vaccine manufacturers. There are several groups for which no safety data is available at all e.g. pregnant women. The amount of squalene in the H1N1 vaccines is also far higher than that contained in previous vaccines.

Do some research for God's sake.

samson09

thecommander wrote: »

Well can I ask then. How come you trust these scientists but don't trust others. What is the basis for your trust?

There's no money in Vit D. You can buy a 6 month supply online for 20 or 30 euro.

It has no side effects if used intelligently. Never been shown in any studies.

There is no motive for untruths.

j1smithy

uprising wrote: »

Will you cop on, you call me gullible because I view big pharma with suspicion, big pharma is the undisputed champion in seperating gullible people with their money....Here take a look at this for good measure.....

No, I think you're gullible because you choose to believe a snake oil salesman, rather than the scientific community at large.

While I don't condone the abuses of big pharma, their research has done more good than bad in my opinion. If one chooses to boycott big pharma, that's their choice but they are possibly considerably shortening their lifespan. If that means there are fewer people spouting rubbish about the effectiveness of unverified alternative treatments, I fully support their decision.

humanji

samson09 wrote: »

There's no money in Vit D. You can buy a 6 month supply online for 20 or 30 euro.

It has no side effects if used intelligently. Never been shown in any studies.

There is no motive for untruths.

How do you know they're not in it for something beside money?

thecommander

samson09 wrote: »

There is no motive for untruths.

What if they are just wrong, it happens. Do you put faith in every bit of advice thats given that there is no profit in?

j1smithy

samson09 wrote: »

Most people don't get enough sun exposure in Summer, in Winter you're getting even less.

See http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/ for more on this.

The vaccine is not the same as the seasonal flu vaccine, it has the added benefit of squalene which was previously banned for use in the UK and USA after it was linked to causing Gulf War syndrome. The data on its safety is sparse and comes from research carried out by the vaccine manufacturers. There are several groups for which no safety data is available at all e.g. pregnant women. The amount of squalene in the H1N1 vaccines is also far higher than that contained in previous vaccines.

Do some research for God's sake.

Rickets is hardly endemic so most people get enough Vit D either through synthesis or from food.

I never said there was no risk associated with the vaccine, there is. With any medication there is always a chance with adverse reactions.
Squalene is a substance with no proven benefit or harm. Maybe you should do some research, and I don't mean reading and citing conspiracy theory websites.

Torakx

well just look at cancer conspiracy.
alot of truth i feel in that. and alot of people dying from chemo.
there is more money in chemo than there is in a good diet for the gov and co.
the fact that chemo is thought to be the way in colleges etc doesnt make it rigth just makes more people think its right.

i would imagine the same scenario is with this vitamin D over chemical vacinnes that do damage.
havent looked into vitamin D myself yet.

Considering that most of those doctors promoting vitamin D are also selling their own books/websites/medical advice I'd say that money has a bit to do with it.

If only there was some way to verify the facts without relying on people's motives. Like some kind of system that collects and evaluates evidence and excludes stuff like human error, confirmation biases and dishonesty.

j1smithy

King Mob wrote: »

Considering that most of those doctors promoting vitamin D are also selling their own books/websites/medical advice I'd say that money has a bit to do with it.

If only there was some way to verify the facts without relying on people's motives. Like some kind of system that collects and evaluates evidence and excludes stuff like human error, confirmation biases and dishonesty.

Publishing in a peer reviewed journal perhaps?

j1smithy

j1smithy wrote: »

Publishing in a peer reviewed journal perhaps?

That's crazy talk j1smithy.
You're talking crazy.

Don't you know that all peer reviewed journals are paid off by Big Pharma?
And that the non-peer reviewed journals that are open to such shenanigans are the only trustworthy sources?

j1smithy

Torakx wrote: »

well just look at cancer conspiracy.
alot of truth i feel in that. and alot of people dying from chemo.
there is more money in chemo than there is in a good diet for the gov and co.
the fact that chemo is thought to be the way in colleges etc doesnt make it rigth just makes more people think its right.

i would imagine the same scenario is with this vitamin D over chemical vacinnes that do damage.
havent looked into vitamin D myself yet.

They'd be a lot more people dying from cancer only for Chemotherapy. Alternate medicine and quackery really annoy me, they give false hope to the desperate whilst relieving them of their money. The lowest of the low.

samson09

Research: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/science/research/vitamin-d-and-influenza.shtml

From the first paper:

"In 1981, R. Edgar Hope-Simpson proposed that a 'seasonal stimulus' intimately associated with solar radiation explained the remarkable seasonality of epidemic influenza. Solar radiation triggers robust seasonal vitamin D production in the skin; vitamin D deficiency is common in the winter, and activated vitamin D, 1,25(OH)2D, a steroid hormone, has profound effects on human immunity. 1,25(OH)2D acts as an immune system modulator, preventing excessive expression of inflammatory cytokines and increasing the 'oxidative burst' potential of macrophages. Perhaps most importantly, it dramatically stimulates the expression of potent anti-microbial peptides, which exist in neutrophils, monocytes, natural killer cells, and in epithelial cells lining the respiratory tract where they play a major role in protecting the lung from infection. Volunteers inoculated with live attenuated influenza virus are more likely to develop fever and serological evidence of an immune response in the winter. Vitamin D deficiency predisposes children to respiratory infections. Ultraviolet radiation (either from artificial sources or from sunlight) reduces the incidence of viral respiratory infections, as does cod liver oil (which contains vitamin D). An interventional study showed that vitamin D reduces the incidence of respiratory infections in children. We conclude that vitamin D, or lack of it, may be Hope-Simpson's 'seasonal stimulus'.

:rolleyes:

j1smithy

King Mob wrote: »

That's crazy talk j1smithy.
You're talking crazy.

Don't you know that all peer reviewed journals are paid off by Big Pharma?
And that the non-peer reviewed journals that are open to such shenanigans are the only trustworthy sources?

That I didn't know. See I thought those journals were published by the scientific community in the pursuit of knowledge, the greater good and respect from their peers. Thank you for enlightening me King.

From now on I shall only trust the unsubstantiated ramblings of people on the internet with books and products to flog. They are the only ones I will believe.

Thanks again

eightyfish

This is dangerous talk.

The vaccine is the option governments are taking because there is plenty of medical trials to prove it does what it says it does. If VitD really did cure swine flu, it could be easily proven and it would be immediately adopted by every medical board in the world.

Vitamins will not protect you from swine flu (though anything that benefits your health will improve your resistance to flu. There is, however, scant medical evidence that vitamin supplements benefit your health.)

ps: this theDr.com guy from the videos sells overpriced vitamin D on his website to protect you from swine flu. ulterior motive or what?

samson09

samson09 wrote: »

Research: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/science/research/vitamin-d-and-influenza.shtml

From the first paper:

"In 1981, R. Edgar Hope-Simpson proposed that a 'seasonal stimulus' intimately associated with solar radiation explained the remarkable seasonality of epidemic influenza. Solar radiation triggers robust seasonal vitamin D production in the skin; vitamin D deficiency is common in the winter, and activated vitamin D, 1,25(OH)2D, a steroid hormone, has profound effects on human immunity. 1,25(OH)2D acts as an immune system modulator, preventing excessive expression of inflammatory cytokines and increasing the 'oxidative burst' potential of macrophages. Perhaps most importantly, it dramatically stimulates the expression of potent anti-microbial peptides, which exist in neutrophils, monocytes, natural killer cells, and in epithelial cells lining the respiratory tract where they play a major role in protecting the lung from infection. Volunteers inoculated with live attenuated influenza virus are more likely to develop fever and serological evidence of an immune response in the winter. Vitamin D deficiency predisposes children to respiratory infections. Ultraviolet radiation (either from artificial sources or from sunlight) reduces the incidence of viral respiratory infections, as does cod liver oil (which contains vitamin D). An interventional study showed that vitamin D reduces the incidence of respiratory infections in children. We conclude that vitamin D, or lack of it, may be Hope-Simpson's 'seasonal stimulus'.

:rolleyes:

And if you actually look at the paper instead of jumping to the conclusion you want it to, you can clearly see that it says a normal deficiency in vitamin D caused by less sunlight in winter may be the explanation for why the flu season is also in winter.

It does not say that taking more than the RDA of vitamin D will give adults higher resistance or immunity to the flu nor does it say it will cure the swine flu or that vitamin D is a good replacement for a vaccine.

In fact most of those papers are of the same variety.

j1smithy

samson09 wrote: »

Research: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/science/research/vitamin-d-and-influenza.shtml

From the first paper:

"In 1981, R. Edgar Hope-Simpson proposed that a 'seasonal stimulus' intimately associated with solar radiation explained the remarkable seasonality of epidemic influenza. Solar radiation triggers robust seasonal vitamin D production in the skin; vitamin D deficiency is common in the winter, and activated vitamin D, 1,25(OH)2D, a steroid hormone, has profound effects on human immunity. 1,25(OH)2D acts as an immune system modulator, preventing excessive expression of inflammatory cytokines and increasing the 'oxidative burst' potential of macrophages. Perhaps most importantly, it dramatically stimulates the expression of potent anti-microbial peptides, which exist in neutrophils, monocytes, natural killer cells, and in epithelial cells lining the respiratory tract where they play a major role in protecting the lung from infection. Volunteers inoculated with live attenuated influenza virus are more likely to develop fever and serological evidence of an immune response in the winter. Vitamin D deficiency predisposes children to respiratory infections. Ultraviolet radiation (either from artificial sources or from sunlight) reduces the incidence of viral respiratory infections, as does cod liver oil (which contains vitamin D). An interventional study showed that vitamin D reduces the incidence of respiratory infections in children. We conclude that vitamin D, or lack of it, may be Hope-Simpson's 'seasonal stimulus'.

:rolleyes:

I don't disagree with what they are saying. In fact, they say people should get out more in winter which I fully agree with. They are not proposing replacing a flu vaccine with Vit D, as uprising is. Vit D should be seen as complimentary to any vaccine programme, not to replace it, because if people want to waste their money its their prerogative.

MidnightQueen

uprising wrote: »

I've been taking 5000iu of vitamin D per day for the past couple of weeks and now I'm going to go one step further and try catch swine flu from the first person I come across who contracts it, I'll intentionally do everything possible to try catch it, just to test my theory, I'll be my own guinepig.

EDIT: To prove I am serious, if anybody reading this know's anybody that currently has swine flu and would be willing to infect me please contact me. All in the name of science of course.

Your cracked!! I really would advise you not to though.

tallaght01

Just for the benefit of the public out there....

There have been 9 or 10 good quality studies looking at the role of vitamin d in the prevention of infectious disease. Just like we know vitamin c works particularly well in flu infections under certain circumstances, it is highly highly highly likely that vitamins, and lots of things that are good for us, will boost our immune system.

The role of vitamin d has been looked at in relation to TB in particular. But TB rates are extremely high in regions where there's a LOT of sunlight.

Nonetheless, there is every chance that vitamin D plays a role in immunity.

But there's a huge leap from saying "vitamin D protects may help our immune system to fight off viruses" to "we don't need vaccines anymore".

The most recent paper published on this topic said, and virtually every doctor agrees with this, that we need to do more research.

Doctors have an obligation to help people. I appreciate that demand is not the same for posters here, so it's easy to say we should base health policy on some guy who wants to sell us vitamin D. But the reality is that vaccination has been the 2nd biggest health improvement tool worldwide in the last 100 years. We can't throw that away because a clever looking man with a white coat on the telly wants us to buy vitamin D supps.

I have a pain in my mickey helping to arrange the logistics of a mass vaccination scheme,, and testing the poxy thing. But we d it because it's the right ting to do. I'd much rather give ppl a vitamin d tablet.

But we need something that we know wrks. Sadly, vitamin D is not that magic bullet. If it was, the 9 trials done already would have shown more obvious results. It will be, at best, an adjunct strategy. But healthy eating is a great way to improve your immune system anyway, aside from the vitamin D effect.

samson09

tallaght01 wrote: »

Just for the benefit of the public out there....

There have been 9 or 10 good quality studies looking at the role of vitamin d in the prevention of infectious disease. Just like we know vitamin c works particularly well in flu infections under certain circumstances, it is highly highly highly likely that vitamins, and lots of things that are good for us, will boost our immune system.

The role of vitamin d has been looked at in relation to TB in particular. But TB rates are extremely high in regions where there's a LOT of sunlight.

Nonetheless, there is every chance that vitamin D plays a role in immunity.

But there's a huge leap from saying "vitamin D protects may help our immune system to fight off viruses" to "we don't need vaccines anymore".

The most recent paper published on this topic said, and virtually every doctor agrees with this, that we need to do more research.

Doctors have an obligation to help people. I appreciate that demand is not the same for posters here, so it's easy to say we should base health policy on some guy who wants to sell us vitamin D. But the reality is that vaccination has been the 2nd biggest health improvement tool worldwide in the last 100 years. We can't throw that away because a clever looking man with a white coat on the telly wants us to buy vitamin D supps.

I have a pain in my mickey helping to arrange the logistics of a mass vaccination scheme,, and testing the poxy thing. But we d it because it's the right ting to do. I'd much rather give ppl a vitamin d tablet.

But we need something that we know wrks. Sadly, vitamin D is not that magic bullet. If it was, the 9 trials done already would have shown more obvious results. It will be, at best, an adjunct strategy. But healthy eating is a great way to improve your immune system anyway, aside from the vitamin D effect.

There's been tons of research on Vit D3, what's important to note here is that NONE of them claim to "cure" H1N1. Nobody is saying that Vit D3 is a replacement for the vaccine, how can it be? However, what I would like to point out is that many people who are avoiding the vaccine are taking measures to get themselves as healthy and prepared as possible and taking Vit D3 is only a part of what they are doing. You wont be guaranteed that it will protect you from catching the flu, but it does decrease your chances significantly. It is also possible to use Vit D3 if you have the flu, I wont get into doses here as I'm sure people can find out themselves. Taking Vit D3 if you have the flu may even save your life as high doses will dampen the immune response and prevent a cytokine storm from eating holes in your lungs, somethhing that has been seen occuring in people who die from the flu.

But don't think that by taking a few Vit D capsules everyday that you are immune to H1N1, even people who are fully vaccinated may not acquire full immunity.

Hey, let's be careful out there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2QApwtE8zQ

tallaght01

samson09 wrote: »

1) There's been tons of research on Vit D3,

2) You wont be guaranteed that it will protect you from catching the flu, but it does decrease your chances significantly.

3) It is also possible to use Vit D3 if you have the flu, Taking Vit D3 if you have the flu may even save your life

4) high doses will dampen the immune response and prevent a cytokine storm from eating holes in your lungs, somethhing that has been seen occuring in people who die from the flu.

Again, just for the benefit of the public.

1) There's been lots of research into vitamin d. There's been 9 (maye ten, I can't quite remember) high quality studies into vitamin d and infectious diseases. Some of these related to flu. I don't think any related to swine flu.

2) Completely unproven

3) Completely unproven

4) The cytokine storm is what the poster is referring to. This was the reaction causing deaths from bird flu. There's no evidence that this is what is causing deaths from swine flu. Nearly all swine flu deaths are primary viral pneumonia, or sometimes pneumonitis.

NRen

uprising wrote: »

I heard on the news the government has aquired some swine flu vaccinations, is there a cover-up of other safer alternative's to the vaccine, mainly Vitamin D.

Here's the HSE swine flu info, not a whisper about the proven benefits of vitamin D
[…]

Okay, before I watch all those videos, how many of those guys are actually doctors? (The first one isn’t – a quick Google search shows he’s not a doctor, just a chiropractor and a kinesiologist.)

samson09

tallaght01 wrote: »

Again, just for the benefit of the public.

1) There's been lots of research into vitamin d. There's been 9 (maye ten, I can't quite remember) high quality studies into vitamin d and infectious diseases. Some of these related to flu. I don't think any related to swine flu.

Of course there's none related to swine flu, how could there be? Theres been hundreds of studies on Vit D3, www.vitamindcouncil.org

2) Completely unproven

See link above and do some reading.


3) Completely unproven

No major studies exist that I know of, but the concept is relatively new. Watch this space. Anecdotal evidence is all there is for now.

4) The cytokine storm is what the poster is referring to. This was the reaction causing deaths from bird flu. There's no evidence that this is what is causing deaths from swine flu. Nearly all swine flu deaths are primary viral pneumonia, or sometimes pneumonitis.

There are reports coming in from the USA and Canada that people are dying from the kind of serious lung damage that is typical of the bird flu. This would indicate that they died as a result of a cytokine storm and is something to keep an eye on in the future. If the virus does mutate, which people are expecting to happen for some reason, from what I've read I reckon this is what will start killing people. Of course I could be wrong, but it doesnt hurt to prepare for such events.

samson09

samson09 wrote: »

There are reports coming in from the USA and Canada that people are dying from the kind of serious lung damage that is typical of the bird flu. This would indicate that they died as a result of a cytokine storm and is something to keep an eye on in the future. If the virus does mutate, which people are expecting to happen for some reason, from what I've read I reckon this is what will start killing people. Of course I could be wrong, but it doesnt hurt to prepare for such events.

Wow.
Again another stunning example of CT irony.

When they prepare with a vaccine that's a bad thing.
But when they prepare with vitamin D (which is much much more "unproven" than some people think the vaccine is) that's a good thing.

samson09

samson09 wrote: »

Nobody is saying that Vit D3 is a replacement for the vaccine, how can it be?

Uprising is.
Several of those videos are.

Supercell

I take vitamin d3 5000IU daily because it helps with my eczema.
This morning I woke with a totally bunged up nose, streaming snot, watery eyes and aches and pains, croaky throat and my tummy doesn't feel so good. I thought it was just hay fever so took Zyzal which normally knocks that on its ass, but its made shag all difference today.
Not saying I got the dreaded swine flu but it sure as **** doesnt seem like the vitamin d made me any more immune to the cold or whatever i got.
Sorry for the strong language, I'm grumpy.

tallaght01

samson09 wrote: »

There are reports coming in from the USA and Canada that people are dying from the kind of serious lung damage that is typical of the bird flu. This would indicate that they died as a result of a cytokine storm and is something to keep an eye on in the future. If the virus does mutate, which people are expecting to happen for some reason, from what I've read I reckon this is what will start killing people. Of course I could be wrong, but it doesnt hurt to prepare for such events.

None of your links provide anything even resembling proof. I wish they did. But they don't. Like I said, there's 9 or 10 studies in this field of decent standard. NOne of them prove your point, and none of the authors claim to.

There's been no significant mutations in this virus yet. Only isolated mutations. So, we can no more "expect" mutations for H1N1 2009 than we can for any other virus.

Both bird and avian flu give pneumonia. But the interesting thing about avian flu is that this cytokine storm seems to have been what's killing people. There was a lot of primary viral pneumonia with H5, but that wasn't the big killer. With H1N1 it is. People aren't dying from a cytokine storm now. They're dying from the pneumonia. So, to draw comparisons between the 2 viruses is skating on thin ice, tbh. To say that they both kill with lung disease, so they must both have a cytokine storm component is false. They're both members of the flu family. But avian flu had a mortality rate of 60%. You cant compare the underlying pathology of the 2.

samson09

tallaght01 wrote: »

None of your links provide anything even resembling proof. I wish they did. But they don't. Like I said, there's 9 or 10 studies in this field of decent standard. NOne of them prove your point, and none of the authors claim to.

There's been no significant mutations in this virus yet. Only isolated mutations. So, we can no more "expect" mutations for H1N1 2009 than we can for any other virus.

Both bird and avian flu give pneumonia. But the interesting thing about avian flu is that this cytokine storm seems to have been what's killing people. There was a lot of primary viral pneumonia with H5, but that wasn't the big killer. With H1N1 it is. People aren't dying from a cytokine storm now. They're dying from the pneumonia. So, to draw comparisons between the 2 viruses is skating on thin ice, tbh. To say that they both kill with lung disease, so they must both have a cytokine storm component is false. They're both members of the flu family. But avian flu had a mortality rate of 60%. You cant compare the underlying pathology of the 2.

Just to clarify, what proof are you looking for? If its proof that Vit D3 reduces the incidence of influenza, look again,its all there. If it's proof that Vit D3 cures swine flu, we both know there's no point in wasting your time looking for something that cant be there.

Wrt cytokine storms, this is something that could cause the type of mortality that governments around the world seem to be preparing for (excavation of mass graves in the UK for example). I'm not saying the current H1N1 flu is the avain flu, although certain sections of its genome have also been found in the bird flu virus.

There are reports of people dying from a virus that is causing effects similar to those associated with avian flu.

http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=521%3Aemergency-update-pandemic-being-triggered-in-the-usa-already&catid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en

BTW, welcome to the conspiracy theories forum.

eightyfish

samson09 wrote: »

There are reports of people dying from a virus that is causing effects similar to those associated with avian flu.

http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=521%3Aemergency-update-pandemic-being-triggered-in-the-usa-already&catid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en

This is a woman who claims the swine flu outbreak is an act of bio-terrorism by the WHO. She's clearly bonkers.

tallaght01

samson09 wrote: »

Just to clarify, what proof are you looking for? If its proof that Vit D3 reduces the incidence of influenza, look again,its all there. If it's proof that Vit D3 cures swine flu, we both know there's no point in wasting your time looking for something that cant be there.

Wrt cytokine storms, this is something that could cause the type of mortality that governments around the world seem to be preparing for (excavation of mass graves in the UK for example). I'm not saying the current H1N1 flu is the avain flu, although certain sections of its genome have also been found in the bird flu virus.

There are reports of people dying from a virus that is causing effects similar to those associated with avian flu.

http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=521%3Aemergency-update-pandemic-being-triggered-in-the-usa-already&catid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en

BTW, welcome to the conspiracy theories forum.

I do appreciate that it's a conspiracy theories forum. And I'm not trying to convince you guys of anything. I'm just giving counter arguments to the public, in case they would believe any of the stuff that's been said.
I'm not looking for any proof, to answer your question. I'm saying nothing here proves anything about a clinical role for vitamin D. Some stuff happens in test tubes, sure. But that should only e an indication for us to look further. I could pour vineger into a test tube full of cancer cells and they would die. But I won't drink vinegar to cure cancer.

For the first time ever, I have looked at one of the links you posted, because it was claiming that people with swine flu die from the same lung disease as people with avian flu did. That would be a hugely significant, and catastrophic development. But thankfully they offer no evidence. INstead they tell people to ask for an autopsy if any of their mates die from swine flu, to look for lab engineered viruses :eek:

It's pretty funny, but I think it shows I'm not needed here any more. We can all agree that people shouldn't take vitamin D instead of getting vaccinated. So, that's what I'm interested in.

tallaght01

eightyfish wrote: »

This is a woman who claims the swine flu outbreak is an act of bio-terrorism by the WHO. She's clearly bonkers.

But nothing beats:

flucase.com wrote:

If you know of anyone who has died of serious lung damage and the bird/swine flu, try to get an autopsy done to find out what virus was the cause of death and whether it was a lab engineered virus, specifically, the one reconstructed by Jeffrey Taubenberger.

Measures that need to be taken to protect against such a lab virus are colloidal silver (sprinkle into nose and eyes, as well)

If you have children going to school, insist they wear face masks or the schools are closed for the period of time that this pandemic lasts

Brilliant!!!!

I'm not going to stir. I just think it's important for people to see what's eing given in evidence. But, this is a CT forum. So, I shall respectfully bow out, until my next public service broadcast :P

samson09

tallaght01 wrote: »

I do appreciate that it's a conspiracy theories forum. And I'm not trying to convince you guys of anything. I'm just giving counter arguments to the public, in case they would believe any of the stuff that's been said.
I'm not looking for any proof, to answer your question. I'm saying nothing here proves anything about a clinical role for vitamin D. Some stuff happens in test tubes, sure. But that should only e an indication for us to look further. I could pour vineger into a test tube full of cancer cells and they would die. But I won't drink vinegar to cure cancer.

For the first time ever, I have looked at one of the links you posted, because it was claiming that people with swine flu die from the same lung disease as people with avian flu did. That would be a hugely significant, and catastrophic development. But thankfully they offer no evidence. INstead they tell people to ask for an autopsy if any of their mates die from swine flu, to look for lab engineered viruses :eek:

It's pretty funny, but I think it shows I'm not needed here any more. We can all agree that people shouldn't take vitamin D instead of getting vaccinated. So, that's what I'm interested in.

Tallaght, I appreciate the fact that you are only looking out for people. I think the take home message is that if people arent going to take the vaccine (and there's going to be lots of such people), they shouldn't put all their faith in Vit D as a "magic bullet". What concerns me about the majority of people who say they will refuse the vaccine is that they are doing little else to protect themselves, and this is simply irresponsible on their behalf.

There are people who believe that this virus has been engineered and I don't expect you to believe this. There are also people who believe that the vaccine is dangerous, I dont expect you to believe this either. But the evidence is there for people to draw their own conclusions from. Whatever side of the story people choose to believe, they should realise the potential benefits and risks from either course of action.

eightyfish

tallaght01 wrote: »

Measures that need to be taken to protect against such a lab virus are colloidal silver (sprinkle into nose and eyes, as well)

WTF???????

Colloidal silver is a sol-gel. It's a nano-antiseptic/disinfectant. They add is to socks to get rid of the smell etc. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT INGESTING THIS WILL DO ANY GOOD. In fact, there is some nanotoxicology studies showing that it may do harm.

Please, please check your sources. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

samson09

tallaght01 wrote: »

But nothing beats:



Brilliant!!!!

I'm not going to stir. I just think it's important for people to see what's eing given in evidence. But, this is a CT forum. So, I shall respectfully bow out, until my next public service broadcast :P

There's also many other articles on the site for people to look through. Forming an opinion on just one article is the height of ignorance, you need to look at the bigger picture to see whats happening here.

Good luck with testing those vaccines that do not contain adjuvants, I'm sure everyone here in Ireland who'll be receiving the ones with squalene will be all ears when the clinical trials are done.

tallaght01

samson09 wrote: »

There's also many other articles on the site for people to look through. Forming an opinion on just one article is the height of ignorance, you need to look at the bigger picture to see whats happening here.

Good luck with testing those vaccines that do not contain adjuvants, I'm sure everyone here in Ireland who'll be receiving the ones with squalene will be all ears when the clinical trials are done.

Just before I go. Do you have GOOD evidence to suggest there's squalene in the Irish vaccines? There was a big furore a few years ago about it and gulf war syndrome. It was never shown t e dangerous, and I believe that will be borne out. But I'm surprised they're using it, from a PR point of view. Do you have anything official to show that its in the vaccine? And I d mean something official, because there's very strict rules on declaring ingredients. So, the info should be out there. I wasn't able to find squalene in it's ingredients when I did a search

eightyfish

samson09 wrote: »

Forming an opinion on just one article is the height of ignorance, you need to look at the bigger picture to see whats happening here.

Totally disagree. By the fact that the woman says this you can discredit everything else she says. She clearly doesn't value evidence, the basic building block of all science including medicine.