Shock the Monkey

jumpguy

Excuse the title, it's a song by Peter Gabriel that's been stuck in my head the past week that got me thinking of this.

The human body and mind is designed for a very different time. We know this because it is unable to adapt to modern situations. The most obvious example being the way we store energy - causing obesity. Another example (abit more sketchy this one) is the fact that humans are hurt for much longer by emotional pain than physical pain.[1]

So basically, we have a body and mind designed for the stone age. Today, we're forced to sit down in an office today, work our very adaptable mind, and face challenges our body wasn't designed for. Instead of grovelling and competing for food, shelter, territory (not on a national basis, on a personal basis), we're forced to grovel for a man-made invention. That is money. We feel emotional stress a lot...we suffer from a lot of problems. Anorexia (not caused by a lack of food), insomnia, depression, birth defects (pollutants) and severe stress are all linked to modern society. Surely this shows that some of our living isn't for humans? Maybe humans are defining themselves by the technology they've built too much. Really, do we not belong in a tree? 3-piece suits and neck ties, perhaps there's a line as to how far before our technology becomes detrimental to humans.

The only time we ever feel real nature-driven emotions now is when we're competing sexually. That's an arguable point, but that's the way I feel. Envy is built into our genes for a long time to ensure reproduction and survival.

Basically, what I'm saying is, have we gone too far? Has life gotten too man-made? If this was ever reversed, is it the only hope for mankind and the planet? Is there a line, has it been crossed, when will it be crossed?

Hope this is the right forum, it says humanities anyway!


[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7587780.stm

Dades

The first thing you have to note is that humans weren't designed. Our characteristics (strengths, weaknesses etc.) have come about over millions of years of natural selection. So if there's any truth in the above it's because the exponential increase in technological advancements is now somewhat at odds with our slowly evolving animal bodies.

That said, humans are one of the most successful species on the planet, so whatever we had before we discovered fire or the wheel has been enough to get us to a point where we're possibly too advanced for our own good.

Húrin

Money represents food, shelter and territory so it is natural to compete for it. It is good that we no longer have to get our exercise by running after food, or by painstakingly extracting it from the soil, but that we can get exercise by doing fun things like sports.

However I agree that modern society tries to force the body into unnatural ways, when we should be molding society to suit the body's needs. The great example is that every technological advance is used not to free ourselves of having to work most of every day, but is abused to squeeze more productivity out of us. The only time the working day was reduced, from 14 hours to 8 hours, was not by technological advance but by the trade union movement in the 20th century.

This is because the ruling class is manipulating the majority in its own interests. This has always been the case and remains so today.

Iwasfrozen

Húrin wrote: »

However I agree that modern society tries to force the body into unnatural ways, when we should be molding society to suit the body's needs. The great example is that every technological advance is used not to free ourselves of having to work most of every day, but is abused to squeeze more productivity out of us. The only time the working day was reduced, from 14 hours to 8 hours, was not by technological advance but by the trade union movement in the 20th century.

This is because the ruling class is manipulating the majority in its own interests. This has always been the case and remains so today.

Someone has been reading abit too much Marx, while I do agree that we are unaturaly using our bodies we are also helping it. We are taller, stronger, live longer and are generally better off then our ancesters.

Why ? Our bodies haven't changed but our tech has, while we push ourselves to be more productive we use that productivity to improve our knowlege of healthcare and nutrition.

Kama

So basically, we have a body and mind designed for the stone age.

Leaving the 'design' part aside, do we? Has there been no change in our minds, let alone our bodies, since the environment of evolutionary adaptation? I'm actually quite dubious of this. Is there no selection pressure that can make a difference in relatively short periods? One possibility here is Ashkenazi intelligence through strong selective pressure during the Middle Ages

Cochran et al. hypothesized that the eugenic pressure was strong enough that mutations creating higher intelligence when inherited from one parent but creating disease when inherited from both parents would still be selected for, which could explain the unusual pattern of genetic diseases found in the Ashkenazi population, such as Tay-Sachs, Canavan disease, Gaucher's disease, Niemann-Pick disease, Mucolipidosis type IV, and other lipid storage disorders and sphingolipid diseases.[9] Some of these diseases (especially torsion dystonia) have been shown to correlate with high intelligence, and others are known to cause neurons to grow an increased number of connections to neighboring neurons

Which isn't a palatable argument for a multiculti antiracist, but an interesting hypothesis.


Rather than genetic change and eugenic pressures, on the individual level our brains have substantially 'rewired' since Google, let alone since TV, let alone the entirety of human cultural evolution since the Neolithic.

Húrin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Someone has been reading abit too much Marx, while I do agree that we are unaturaly using our bodies we are also helping it. We are taller, stronger, live longer and are generally better off then our ancesters.

That's because we have more food and better medicine than them. We are also on average fatter and slower.

Why ? Our bodies haven't changed but our tech has, while we push ourselves to be more productive we use that productivity to improve our knowlege of healthcare and nutrition.

But the pushing (which, as I explained, is due not to ourselves but to market forces) often causes reduction in our quality of life and stress-related illnesses.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Dades wrote: »

The first thing you have to note is that humans weren't designed. Our characteristics (strengths, weaknesses etc.) have come about over millions of years of natural selection.

We weren't designed in the sense an engineer designs a motorway designs a bridge but I think its fair to say humans were "created" by natural selection, and I think thats what the OP actually means when he says "designed"

jumpguy wrote:

The human body and mind is designed for a very different time. We know this because it is unable to adapt to modern situations. The most obvious example being the way we store energy - causing obesity. Another example (abit more sketchy this one) is the fact that humans are hurt for much longer by emotional pain than physical pain.[1]

So basically, we have a body and mind designed for the stone age. Today, we're forced to sit down in an office today, work our very adaptable mind, and face challenges our body wasn't designed for. Instead of grovelling and competing for food, shelter, territory (not on a national basis, on a personal basis), we're forced to grovel for a man-made invention. That is money. We feel emotional stress a lot...we suffer from a lot of problems. Anorexia (not caused by a lack of food), insomnia, depression, birth defects (pollutants) and severe stress are all linked to modern society. Surely this shows that some of our living isn't for humans? Maybe humans are defining themselves by the technology they've built too much. Really, do we not belong in a tree? 3-piece suits and neck ties, perhaps there's a line as to how far before our technology becomes detrimental to humans.

I'd call bollocks on a lot of this. We are not "forced" to work in offices. Those of us who choose to work in offices can also choose to eat well, go to the gym, explore forests, climb mountains etc. Obesity is down to laziness, not modern living.

You're going on as if every second person has anorexia and everyone else is depressed. Most people aren't. I'd forsee a lot more problems if we went back to stone age times.

Perhaps babies with birth defects were abandoned in the stone age. Perhaps they weren't but aren't showing in the fossil record because we have f*ck all fossils.

And no, stone age man did not live in trees.

Iwasfrozen

Húrin wrote: »

That's because we have more food and better medicine than them. We are also on average fatter and slower.

And where do you think the better medicine and food came from ? From our more advanted tech.

But the pushing (which, as I explained, is due not to ourselves but to market forces) often causes reduction in our quality of life and stress-related illnesses.

Your over exagerating the effect of modern society on our bodies. The benifits [clean enviroments, good food, entertainment] far outweight the negitives [indoor work].