Tri drafting DCT

urban cowboy

Has anyone any views on illegal drafting during the cycle of a triathlon race. This year has been my first season and have found the four races that I had partaken in to be a total rush. However the last race which I took part in, DCT , I found myself to be in a constant state of trying not to draft. The course is five laps and is as the organisers say a technical course. Compared to other standard distance races the cycle courses were over 1 or 2 laps were I had found myself a couple of times in a drafting position and either made the decision, while cycling, if I had the legs to go forward or to fall back. Im afraid to say that while on the cycle in DCT I felt I really had no option but to be cycling in a pack. Particularly when coming off a steep decent or climbing. Organisers will say its up the cyclist to not draft, but why should, when after working hard to make ground only to find yourself amongst a pack of second/third wave riders that you should still be the one to move forward or fall back. Even to look at the pictures of the race there were packs of cyclists in a lot of them.
I had a great day and the race was run well, but I can’t help but feel that anyone who was given a time penalty was hard done by. Have people been given penalties in other races I usually think its justified as I make an afford myself to avoid drafting and it does in no doubt give an advantage.
[FONT=&quot]DCT is a great race and I think it would be an idea to explore the option of making it a draft race for non elite race, based purely on the course layout and in wanting to keep the race based in the phoenix park :cool:[/FONT]

tunney

I was there as a spectator and I saw some drafting, all blatant drafton on behalf of the competitors. In my opinion the penalty is not harsh enough.

You had an option not to cycle in a pack, you *chose* to cycle in a pack.

I'm guessing you have never done a bike race or done a draft legal race? Putting the amount of newbies in a draft legal race would be a complete safety disaster and is a complete non-flyer.

There is always an option, cheat or not, draft or not.

mloc123

tunney wrote: »

I was there as a spectator and I saw some drafting, all blatant drafton on behalf of the competitors. In my opinion the penalty is not harsh enough.

You had an option not to cycle in a pack, you *chose* to cycle in a pack.

I'm guessing you have never done a bike race or done a draft legal race? Putting the amount of newbies in a draft legal race would be a complete safety disaster and is a complete non-flyer.

There is always an option, cheat or not, draft or not.

The 2min penalty does not seem harsh enough, imo it should be a penalty that pretty much puts you out of the race...

urban cowboy

No were did I say that I choose to draft. I said that I follow the rules but found myself to be constantly in a state of not wanting to draft. One section of the race had a long uphill section were there was a constant line of cyclist top to bottom, afraid very difficult not to be in a violation of drafting there.
The course was over five laps with I think 5 waves for the Olympic distance and more waves again for the sprint. Would be very harsh to disqualify someone in those conditions. Don’t get me wrong, people who intentionally draft should be shot. The point I was making was that the race in parts it was unwittingly difficult not to draft.

tunney

urban cowboy wrote: »

No were did I say that I choose to draft. I said that I follow the rules but found myself to be constantly in a state of not wanting to draft. One section of the race had a long uphill section were there was a constant line of cyclist top to bottom, afraid very difficult not to be in a violation of drafting there.
The course was over five laps with I think 5 waves for the Olympic distance and more waves again for the sprint. Would be very harsh to disqualify someone in those conditions. Don’t get me wrong, people who intentionally draft should be shot. The point I was making was that the race in parts it was unwittingly difficult not to draft.

Disagree. If anything the technical nature of the DCT course means drafting is less likely.

"I felt I really had no option but to be cycling in a pack." Your words not mine.

Poncherello

Hey Cowboy, I am also relatively new to the sport and your observations are very valid.

Tunney is at the top end of the sport and has a big issue with drafting, you are not the first person he has called a cheat.

delboyfagan

A time penalty is not harsh enough. Also in my opinion, no record should stand, be it at any distance, where a competitor is penalised for drafting at any time during the race.

urban cowboy

Thats pretty much my point. You say I *chose* were as I say I had no option but to cycle in a pack and I meant it
The other 3 races that I took part in there were times when I was in a drafting position and like I said in my OP I either speeded up or slowed down. Like I said this is my first year doing tri and I was just woundering did anyone else find that to be the case also.
My experience is the opposite to yours Tunney, the more technical and number of laps the harder it is not to draft, were as the less technical, lesser amount of laps and the field/waves are spread out more evenly then the harder it is to draft

griffin100

There's nothing worse than being drafted by a lazy rider during a tri. In the Athlone OD this year I had 'Blue Trek with squeeky chain' sitting on my back wheel for about 25kms. Every so often he would come by me, only to slow right down again for me to overtake him, especially when on an incline. At one stage a guy on a Cervelo overtook me at speed - with squeeky chain boy hanging on his back wheel. That's cheating plain and simple and there should be graded system of penalties for that - first offence 5 minute penalty - second offence DQ. Similarly in Eireman Half this year there were peletons of riders all sheltering behind each other trying to avoid the wind.

tunney

Poncherello wrote: »

You are not the first person he has called a cheat.

I never called anyone a cheat. I said drafting was cheating and the op said he drafted. You called the OP a cheat

urban cowboy wrote: »

Thats pretty much my point. You say I *chose* were as I say I had no option but to cycle in a pack and I meant it.

You should have lodged a complain, it is extremely dangerous for competitors to tie other competitors to themselves. I'm assuming thats how they forced you to ride in a pack?

urban cowboy wrote: »

My experience is the opposite to yours Tunney, the more technical and number of laps the harder it is not to draft, were as the less technical, lesser amount of laps and the field/waves are spread out more evenly then the harder it is to draft

Pack riding doesn't make as much of a difference in technical courses as cornering ability, descending skills and climbing ability all must be similar for a pack to stay together, these are the things that break packs up. On flat courses, straight courses the packs stay together much more easily.

urban cowboy

Agreed, drafting to all those who play by the rules is just plain bad.

My point concerns DCT were as someone who plays by the rules noted the amount of drafting and could understand why it was happening, more so on that course than others.

Highway_To_Hell

I usually finish any races I enter outside the top 50% so I would be a completer rather then a competitor and no where near getting placed, people passing me on the bike doesn't really impact my personal result as I am usually targeting a time to finish.

I might be a bit harsh but I despise drafters and think it should be an instant DQ as this will be the only way to get people to stop doing it. Most races I have entered do not have enough draft marshals and it is tough on them to monitor everyone.

Just because everyone else is drafting is no excuse to join the pack, the rules are (I think) 15 seconds to move out of the draft zone, I know it is a pain when someone is either riding on your coat tails and then slips past you after you have done all the work or a pack of riders bomb past but rules are rules and just get out of the draft zone ASAP.

In one race I did I was DQ'ed for obstruction. When I came into T2 the bike racked beside my slot was in the way so I moved it over but it fell off the rack and ended up lying against the end rail (upright but not in anyones way), the owner was already on the run so I didn't think it was a problem. Since then I have always made sure not to make the same mistake again and I think if the same severity was handed out for drafting it would improve the situation.

pgibbo

Last Sunday in Lough Key was the first time I noticed blatent drafting in any of the triathlons I have enetered. I have to say I was rightly p*ssed off when I saw it but forgot to report the guy after the race. I was too wet, in need of a shower & pre-occuppied with trying to find my lost phone so I forgot all about it afterwards. A guy was overtaking me, and he had someone stuck to his wheel as he passed me and was there for quite a while after too. Blatant!!! :mad:

Zuppy

The penalties for drafting are clearly laid out. You want someone DQ'ed on first offence then change the book. Personnally I think it is fine the way it is.

If your overtaking and it takes 16sec not 15, should you be DQ'ed then? Not particularly fair IMO, but cheating is cheating. I think the time penalty is adequate in the first case. Second drafting offence is a DQ and I think that is more than fair. And continuing to draft is a repeat offence therefore DQ anyway.


And more draft busting on the course (whatever course) would solve some of the issue but not the issue of too many bikes on the course at the same time. Both of which are a race management problem.

If you find someone drafting report it to the race ref. While it would need to be confirmed (you are competing against them) you might find someone else might have reported them too. Or better yet, volunteer at a race to marshal or draft bust.

Bambaata

i think those motorbikes that patrol races are great but they need more of them but i can imagine its hard to get people to volunteer for that and i understand it costs a lot in insurance to have those bikes. ive seen them catch many ahead of me by lurking behind for a few seconds watching drafting ahead.

mloc123

Yeah the Clogherhead tri had a couple or motorbike draft marshalls, delighted to see a peleton getting red flagged at one point.

urban cowboy

As a newbie to the sport, I'll explain my predicament.

Cycling along doing a steady speed when 2,3 sometimes 4 other cyclists catch up and decide to go at the same speed as myself. I am not a cheat and fall the correct distance to the back of the group. The group slows down as they are tired from chasing me down. I am now cycling slower than what I had been originally. Annoyed now, and because there are so many cyclists on each course lap, there are also others gaining. Been proactive and not a cheat I go to the front of the illegal drafting pack and try to break away. What do you know the pack go with me! and another rider is sucked in.
Is there anyone that has come across or heard of this type of a scenario in a tri race or is it just me cheating and I can't admit to it.
Thinking of just concentrating on improving my swim and run and leave the cycle to those without a conscience;) There was some amount of drafting during DCT.

Poncherello

Chill Winston Chill !!

Yes this happens especially in the bigger events DCT, Athy & Athlone. You just have to race your own race and do what you can to avoid it. As you get faster and more experienced it becomes less of an issue.

I do agree with Tunney though in that the DCT course is such that it should be easier to lose people to to its technical nature.

urban cowboy

Thanks Poncherello, chill pill taken.
Silly I know, but I have heard and read folk been quite emphatic when talking about drafting, this thread is proof enough.
Not a cheater though:p and I still contend that DCT is more prone to drafting than other courses. On the plus side, because of DCT been 5 laps, a well drilled team of marshels been visable and vocal towards riders grouping would solve the problem. There was one guy at the course entrance who roared at cyclists to split when grouped at the bottom of the decent. This worked perfect as they all spaced.

tunney

urban cowboy wrote: »

As a newbie to the sport, I'll explain my predicament.

Cycling along doing a steady speed when 2,3 sometimes 4 other cyclists catch up and decide to go at the same speed as myself. I am not a cheat and fall the correct distance to the back of the group. The group slows down as they are tired from chasing me down. I am now cycling slower than what I had been originally. Annoyed now, and because there are so many cyclists on each course lap, there are also others gaining. Been proactive and not a cheat I go to the front of the illegal drafting pack and try to break away. What do you know the pack go with me! and another rider is sucked in.
Is there anyone that has come across or heard of this type of a scenario in a tri race or is it just me cheating and I can't admit to it.
Thinking of just concentrating on improving my swim and run and leave the cycle to those without a conscience;) There was some amount of drafting during DCT.

Whats actually happened is, a group catches you, as this is the nature of groups. You fall off the back so not to intentionally draft. You drop back (perhaps the legal distance, perhaps less) but you still get an advantage, its called a "pace line" and is completely legal, for a proper explanation of it, and how much benefit it gives read any interview with Chris McCormick when he talks about the sharp end of the IM field. So you are now getting a slight, albeit possibly legal draft, you recover from your efforts and then find you can catch the group easily, as you have recovered and still have the benefits of the pace line. next time drop, 10m back, the group *will* ride away from you.

hunnymonster

urban cowboy wrote: »

There was one guy at the course entrance who roared at cyclists to split when grouped at the bottom of the decent. This worked perfect as they all spaced.

Unfortunately, more often than not, when I yell something similar at a "group", I get told to .... well you know, not words I normally hear :-)

Bambaata

Poncherello wrote: »

Chill Winston Chill !!

Yes this happens especially in the bigger events DCT, Athy & Athlone. You just have to race your own race and do what you can to avoid it. As you get faster and more experienced it becomes less of an issue.

I do agree with Tunney though in that the DCT course is such that it should be easier to lose people to to its technical nature.

It would have probably been easier only it was 5 laps and thus it was always going to have some amount of congestion.