Prison-does it work?

whadabouchasir

last saturay one of my friends was badly assaulted in a completely random and unprovoked attack.He was left in a neck brace and with six staples in his head.Later the Guards told us that one of the lads involved had just spent 5 years in prison for assaulting a Guard.If someone can be convicted of a crime than commit the exact same crime again is prison or indeed the judicial system a sufficient deterrent?

Dan Chipowski

Depends on how mental the person is.

ScumLord

Our prison system is a complete and utter waste of time and money. It can only make those that enter it worse. There's no education, rehabilitation or work ethic instilled in anyone that's sent there.

Prisoners should be re-educated and given a skill when they're sent to prison, they should be made work everyday so they can repay their debt to society and should be thought morals.

Rented Mule

If it was a dog that assaulted your friend they would have had the good sense to put it down.

Vegeta

What is prison for?

To punish people for their crimes?
To remove dangerous people from society?
To rehabilitate convicts?
All of the above?

Anyone have any figures for re-offending?, i.e. What % of people who are sent to prison are convicted of crimes after their release

ejmaztec

Prison is a must-do for anyone looking for advancement up the criminal ladder. It's a residential crammer for crooks.

Wazdakka

As a deterrent? Maybe..

For rehabilitation? Hell no.

Neamhshuntasach

For a lot of these scum bags prison is not a form of rehabilitation. Sure all their mates are in there and they come out with the exact same mentality. And it's nearly worth it to committ a crime in Ireland if you are willing to accept the short prison sentences.

[Jackass]

Of course it doesn't work.

There are certain individuals who will only know a life of crime...this stems from poverty as a child, and generations of poverty, where there are no morals or values, fathers don't stick around, they live a life of crime because their fathers didn't stick around, there's no direction or hope in any of their lives, they'll never be able to get a good job or any sort of status, particularly in places like america where Universiy costs 10's of thousands, people are born into "ghettos" were crime and drug use is a way of life...gangs form to protect people from this crime, yet encourage crime so that the senior people can make money...it's an endless cycle...unless the route of the problem is solved, there is no hope for these people and prison only serves to remove them from society to protect other people.

RHunce

i think it works

i visited castlerea with my school before and some of those prisoners were really nice people

prison should be more of a rehabilitation centre then a detetion centre. give them the chances they deserve

whadabouchasir

[Jackass] wrote: »

fathers don't stick around, they live a life of crime because their fathers didn't stick around, there's no direction or hope in any of their lives, they'll never be able to get a good job or any sort of status, particularly in places like america where Universiy costs 10's of thousands, people are born into "ghettos" were crime and drug use is a way of life...gangs form to protect people from this crime, yet encourage crime so that the senior people can make money...it's an endless cycle...unless the route of the problem is solved, there is no hope for these people and prison only serves to remove them from society to protect other people.

But these people that attacked my freind don't live in ghettos they live in the same town as us.they live with respectable and law abiding neighbours.Also how does poverty make you want to vicously assault a complete stranger for no reason?Robbery was not their motive as they didn't bother to steal his phone.

wudangclan

whadabouchasir

what about you sir?
it's taken me a while to work that one out.

Capt'n Midnight

Vegeta wrote: »

Anyone have any figures for re-offending?, i.e. What % of people who are sent to prison are convicted of crimes after their release

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/reoffending-rates-rise-as-the-prison-population-expands-872411.html

Britain's prison population has increased by more than a third in the past decade. At the same time, the percentage of prisoners committing offences within two years of leaving has surged from just over half to almost two-thirds.

In 1993, when there were fewer than 45,000 prisoners, 53 per cent were being reconvicted within two years. In 2004, 65 per cent of those leaving prison were reconvicted.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/jail-scandal-25pc-back-behind-bars-within-year-63228.html

MORE than a quarter of prisoners find themselves back in jail within just 12 months of being given their freedom.

And half are back behind bars within just four years of offending, according to the first study on prisoner re-offending rates.

The study analysed almost 20,000 prisoners released over four years.

It outlines in stark terms how detention is producing, rather than deterring, future generations of criminals.

As such, it is an official indictment of the State's failure to improve the way offenders are treated when they leave prison

...
The rate of re-offending is 'strikingly high' (85pc) for those who have already done time for not paying fines.

* The vast majority of re-offenders are under 30, male, single and unemployed.

* More than half (56pc) spend less than three months in prison.

The average cost of incarcerating a prisoner here for one year is €90,900, though help for prisoners after they get out is minimal and vastly under-resourced.
...

The crimes for which ex-prisoners are re-imprisoned are: violence (27pc), motoring offences (22pc), drugs (13pc), burglaries and thefts (13pc), public order (10pc), sex crime (2pc) and other offences (13pc).

The research has also exposed the lack of alternatives to custodial sentences, with 85pc re-imprisoned for defaulting on payment of a fine.

whadabouchasir

The statistics clearly show that the chances of someone offending again are very high.Taking this into account why does the state not do more to ensure that convicts do not reoffend.For example curfews,travel restrictions,regular meetings with the guards and possibly training or further education?

cruizer101

The system in this country, and in most others, is mess.

True to you and me and most honest indivuals the idea of going to prison is horrible but for the most of the scum that go there its like going to a holiday camp or something. All they learn in there is how to be better criminals. Many come out worse than when they went in.

What is needed is rehabilitation, but more than that make them pay back society. Stick them on exercise bikes generating electricity after been filled up on carbs from the potatoes they've farmed. Or a least have them do something.

Why not introduce chain gangs which can be hired out as cheap labour with the prisoners recieveing their money on release. There are many sensible options which could be implemented. But seem as though nothing happened during the boom when money was being thrown about, not a chance now.

Edit: also meant to say some people are just scum and will not change for them should be 3 strikes and lifetime dentention rule, but again make money from them.

Dyr

It outlines in stark terms how detention is producing, rather than deterring, future generations of criminals.

Wait..wat? if someone has gone to prison they're already criminals..so prison really can't produce criminals so, can it?

Anyway all this is proving is that criminals accept prison as a risk in their lifestyle.

hullaballoo

Square peg, round hole.

Dravokivich

whadabouchasir wrote: »

The statistics clearly show that the chances of someone offending again are very high.Taking this into account why does the state not do more to ensure that convicts do not reoffend.For example curfews,travel restrictions,regular meetings with the guards and possibly training or further education?

Or the jail not being free room and board?

- Drav!

whadabouchasir

Dravokivich wrote: »

Or the jail not being free room and board?

- Drav!

How do you suggest this idea will work?

Holsten

In this country, no at all.

In others, as a punishment, which should be the sole function, yes.

For rehabilitation or a deterrent, no.

madmadworld

first i hope buddy has a full recovery
you all sound like Americans i thought it was better there.
in my life time we have got real tough on crime here in the States, heck it's a motto.
in the 60s and early 70s when i grew up. on your first offence unless you killed,raped or disabled a person yourself, mostly you would get probation. see a guy once a month and answer questions like you still working not doing bad things. if you used a gun you could end up in the work house for 30-90 days.there you only got out to go to your job. we don't even have any of these that i know of now.
heck we put Martha Stewart in prison(i hope you know who she is.)
and we have passed so many new laws it's hard to keep up.lol
they let people out you can't understand 8 time child molesters and keep a guy for a much lesser of a crime for years.
does it make it better here ? hard to tell can't undo it to see.
but what the worse is as far as rehabilitation is the hard work labor jobs are gone now to asia or somewhere. so when they do get out what do they do ? this is a big reason we have so many locked up.

Dravokivich

whadabouchasir wrote: »

How do you suggest this idea will work?

Jail should be something they wouldn't want to go to...

as the prison system is now... they get cuaght doing something, what happens... they go away for a while, locked up... food... and such...

they get released... they get caught again... go back in... and so on...

Prison has to be a punishment, something people wouldnt go back into...

...as it is now, all it is, is a slap on the wrist and those criminals know that.

Unfortunately due to groups such as Amnesty International and any other human rights activists... a prison system will never work the way its needed to.

- Drav!

K4t

Obviously not from what you just said. Hope he's alright.

*sent you a pm*

ScumLord

Dravokivich wrote: »

Jail should be something they wouldn't want to go to...

as the prison system is now... they get cuaght doing something, what happens... they go away for a while, locked up... food... and such...

they get released... they get caught again... go back in... and so on...

Prison has to be a punishment, something people wouldnt go back into...

...as it is now, all it is, is a slap on the wrist and those criminals know that.

Unfortunately due to groups such as Amnesty International and any other human rights activists... a prison system will never work the way its needed to.

- Drav!

If you make the prisons rougher you'll just breed tougher criminals that will feel further and further separated from society. If their not going to rehabilitate people when they go to prison they might as well bring back the death penalty and just off them from their vision of a perfect society.

SoupyNorman

In my opinion, prison works when it's done correctly. My idea of a prison aka 'a deterrent' for committing a crime is a place with:

No TV
Gruel for food
No Pool tables
Minimal interaction with other inmates
Hard Labor and chain gangs
Solitary confinement

In other words, the bare bones to live. Where in the human rights charter does it say pool tables must be provided...christ its fcuking ridiculous.

Criminals scoff at a stint in prison on the whole, Prison in Ireland : /yell "You're doing it wrong"

Leave the rehabilitation up to them, they are adults are they not? To show the slightest amount of compassion for scum makes you partially responsible for their next crime.


Joe Arpaio is my hero, a prison like this out in the middle of Roscommon and we'd be crime free!

Rented Mule

The problem is that you need more 'Federal pound them in the ass' prisons such as found in the States.

You can't have these country club prisons where the lunatics are running the asylum.

Prison is supposed to be a punishment.

netwhizkid

I think that the Death Penalty generally works much better in preventing offenders from offending again.

ScumLord

Rented Mule wrote: »

The problem is that you need more 'Federal pound them in the ass' prisons such as found in the States.

You can't have these country club prisons where the lunatics are running the asylum.

Prison is supposed to be a punishment.

netwhizkid wrote: »

I think that the Death Penalty generally works much better in preventing offenders from offending again.

Yes because the US has very low crime rates and hardly anyone in prison.

~me~

have to agree with SoupyNorman- no tv/ pool tables etc.

although after being in both the male and female parts of mountjoy (school tours!) i have to say the female prisoners have it alot better in there! we were told that the mentality of the people running the womens section is that their sentance is their punishment and the rest is just what it is- a stay in a building- they have tvs, hair straighteners, anything they need cause they've gotten their punishment purely by being put in prison.

whereas the mens section is alot less comfortable, although tbh i think both are a bit too comfortable to deter people. especially people who are in for smaller crimes- they're not in long enough to get uncofortable cause their kept busy all the time but if you were in for a longer period of time you'd obviously get bored of pool and tv once the novelty wares off and reality sets in! so when they go out theres a tiny part of the that thinks 'ah even if i do get caught its a piece of cake'.

also afaik, your man who raped that elderly woman, cant remember his name, had therapy and stuff after he raped his first victim (the young girl) and then he went and did it again, which kinda proves that if they've done it once and are 'treated' they can do it again if they're hell bent on doing so. so if 'treating' them with councilling (sp) doesnt work they need to deter them from doing it in the first place and make it a place everyone knows is horrible, and after experiencing it once they definitely wont reoffend.

Overheal

I am disgusted with your entire Judicial System.



....



That is all.

Daroxtar

If someone violently assaults or rapes someone their life is shattered. It could take years for them to recover, if ever. The perpetrator , if caught can usually look forward to a nice cozy stay in a jail with top notch facilities and they might even get to pursue further education and end up leaving Jail with a degree. So the punishment for destroying someone's life is a degree whereas the victim will be lucky to even get proper counselling.

Criminals should get bread and water and hard labour, not Chef prepared meals, satellite tv and games rooms. Any limp fuk of an amnesty supporter who defends serious criminals should get treated to an act of violent crime and asked afterwards have their views changed.

We need the pricks of judges to stop giving scumbags more chances. Put the fukkers away for a long time to a place that they really dont want to be in and force them to work, at least they'll be paying back society rather than being a drain on public finances

ScumLord

Daroxtar wrote: »

If someone violently assaults or rapes someone their life is shattered. It could take years for them to recover, if ever. The perpetrator , if caught can usually look forward to a nice cozy stay in a jail with top notch facilities and they might even get to pursue further education and end up leaving Jail with a degree. So the punishment for destroying someone's life is a degree whereas the victim will be lucky to even get proper counselling.

What if they had to put use that degree to advance their community? To me it just seems like a waste to have a person locked up sucking up our resources, they should be turned into valuable resources that the state can use as cheap labour. Depending on the crime I don't think a person should have their entire life taken away from them either.

walshb

ScumLord wrote: »

Our prison system is a complete and utter waste of time and money. It can only make those that enter it worse. There's no education, rehabilitation or work ethic instilled in anyone that's sent there.

Prisoners should be re-educated and given a skill when they're sent to prison, they should be made work everyday so they can repay their debt to society and should be thought morals.

There's no education? That is a blatant inaccuracy and I know of many persons
who are being educated in prison. Education is a right that every prisoner
is entitled to and IMO, a damn luxury that shouldn't be allowed.

Many have done trades and earned skills when in fact, they should get damn all.
In Ireland, commit a serious crime and wreck someones life, go to jail where you
are fed, clothed and educated and trained, use of libraries and gyms...It's a disgrace!

The bare minimum they should receive, food and shelter and the minimalist of exercise.

I ask, would anyone here be all for eduacating and helping and rehabilitating a person
who commits a heinous and vicious crime against them or a member of their family?

Joe O'Reilly is busy studying away in prison and making full
use of his cosy time in prison. It's a damn shame that his ex wife Rachel
wasn't so fortunate

buckieburd

walshb wrote: »

I ask, would anyone here be all for eduacating and helping and rehabilitating a person
who commits a heinous and vicious crime against them or a member of their family?

If it stops them re-offending and hurting someone else on their release I'd be all for it...

Sephiroth_dude

Obiously it does'nt if they just go out and reoffend again.

walshb

buckieburd wrote: »

If it stops them re-offending and hurting someone else on their release I'd be all for it...

Something tells me that I wouldn't be all for a person who say, raped a relative or killed a relative of mine, being placed in prison and being taught a skill or trade and given access to free eduaction so that when he gets out, he can resume with his life and make a go of it...

whadabouchasir

buckieburd wrote: »

If it stops them re-offending and hurting someone else on their release I'd be all for it...

I'm not sure that it would.Even if they leave prison with a good qualification they probably won't get a job because they have a criminal record.Those convicted for violent crimes certainly won't find a job in a recession and so will probably just go out and do the same again.I forgot to mention that one of the guys had a football sock with him that he filled with stones,so clearly they were planning on attacking someone for the sake of it.this is what really annoys me.They kicked him in the head as he lay on the ground for no reason.they didn't even know him.

buckieburd

walshb wrote: »

Something tells me that I wouldn't be all for a person who say, raped a relative or killed a relative of mine, being placed in prison and being taught a skill or trade and given access to free eduaction so that when he gets out, he can resume with his life and make a go of it...

It wouldn't exactly light up my life, but I'd rather they had the tools to try and not re-offend when they got out. In all honesty I'd prefer they never got out but thats not the way it works. If they are going to get I would prefer they go through some form of rehabilitation to lessen the danger to society.

ScissorPaperRock

What we need is to address the root causes within our society that lead to the creation of criminals. I've said it before and I'll say it again, people are products of their environments, so we need to maintain an environment that doesn't create these people.

walshb

buckieburd wrote: »

It wouldn't exactly light up my life, but I'd rather they had the tools to try and not re-offend when they got out. In all honesty I'd prefer they never got out but thats not the way it works. If they are going to get I would prefer they go through some form of rehabilitation to lessen the danger to society.

I can understand this point, but currently, prison actually pays and is in no way a deterrent.

You commit crime here and go to jail and you get an education, all meals laid on and free use of libraries and gyms etc. Maybe, if they made prison a damn tough and hard place, then just maybe, folks would think twice about committing some crimes.

Also, the sentence length is pretty damn appalling. I think we as a society need to make the threat and thoughts of prison horrendous and the worst possible place one could end up in.

Now, I am not saying it should be like Midnight Express or anything, but it should be pretty much confinement and the basic basic rights to life.

TV, pool tables, books, gyms etc, an absolute NO NO!

dresden8

The big problem with prisons is that they let people out.

Rebel021

SoupyNorman wrote: »

In my opinion, prison works when it's done correctly. My idea of a prison aka 'a deterrent' for committing a crime is a place with:

No TV
Gruel for food
No Pool tables
Minimal interaction with other inmates
Hard Labor and chain gangs
Solitary confinement

In other words, the bare bones to live. Where in the human rights charter does it say pool tables must be provided...christ its fcuking ridiculous.

Criminals scoff at a stint in prison on the whole, Prison in Ireland : /yell "You're doing it wrong"

Leave the rehabilitation up to them, they are adults are they not? To show the slightest amount of compassion for scum makes you partially responsible for their next crime.


Joe Arpaio is my hero, a prison like this out in the middle of Roscommon and we'd be crime free!

Joe Arpaio is as bad as the criminals,
He has been investigated many times for human rights abuses and nothing small either.
http://www.arpaio.com/top-ten/index.php#3
http://justdreadful.com/?p=270
Not ot mention that crime is still on the rise in his state and a considerable high re-offending rate.

Back on topic our prison system doesn't work to rehabilitate it only serves to remove the guilty party from the public for a short duration.

Prison should be seen as a place where nobody wants to go.
I know a guy from Cork who went in for 3 months because of assault and came out a junkie.
WE can't even keep drugs out of prison how are we going to keep people from re-offending when they can stupor themselves through their sentence.

whadabouchasir

Rebel021 wrote: »

Back on topic our prison system doesn't work to rehabilitate it only serves to remove the guilty party from the public for a short duration.

I couldn't agree with you more.I think that for people to be really rehabilitated they need to feel genuine remorse for their actions and realsie the suffering and pain that they have caused.If prisoners were forced to meet their victims and the victims' family this could help this.

The Davestator

There are too many bleeding heart liberals in ireland and europe to have tough jails. People like some of the posters here who have obviously never been the victim of crime.

if you look at one of the first posts on this thread, you'll see that re-offending rates have gone up drastically since jail got easier! They added books, gyms etc and now people are not afraid of going to jail.

During the irish famine, people routinely broke the law to get at least one meal a day and shelter - nothing much has changed.

K4t

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

What we need is to address the root causes within our society that lead to the creation of criminals. I've said it before and I'll say it again, people are products of their environments, so we need to maintain an environment that doesn't create these people.

I couldn't agree more.

However, the problem is only getting worse, and only going to get worse and worse over the next few years with less and less money available for social expenditure. The only way to deal with these vermin is harsher sentencing. The fact at the moment is that victims of these assaults know that if they make a complaint, and the scumbag by some freak occurance is actually sent to prison, he'll be out again roaming the streets within a few months. It's just not worth the grief.

These cnuts are still going to get away scott free. And Dermot Aherne hasn't a clue, fckn banning samurai swords and bringing in blasphemy laws This really is a banana republic........

Odysseus

Whilst I must admit the prison service has many failings, things aren't as cushy as people think.

Part of my work involves professional visits to various places of detention, and I have to say its a joke.

Yes there is the punishment whereby a person's liberty is taken away, but if prison is only going to be about punishment its never going to work. The possiblities of rehab are slim for most people, if you go inside with no regard or respect for society, no work ethic, no personal respect and no work is done with the person; they will come back out the same.

Most of my clients are repeat offenders and tbh most of them will continue to offend. Its easy to blame drugs for the problem, but it goes deeper that. Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in the punishment side of things, but if you don't balence that out will investing something in the person you will never get chance.

Someone on protection in Mountjoy for example, would be on 23hr lock up in a cell with 4 or 5 other lads. There is little opportunity to try reintergrate the person back into society there.

Rented Mule

ScumLord wrote: »

Yes because the US has very low crime rates and hardly anyone in prison.

At some point it becomes more of a 'revenge' thing than 'rehabilitation'.

So long as I know that the guy who broke into my car is being cornholed on a regular basis, I can deal with the fact that he might not be rehabilitated.

ScumLord

walshb wrote: »

There's no education? That is a blatant inaccuracy and I know of many persons
who are being educated in prison. Education is a right that every prisoner
is entitled to and IMO, a damn luxury that shouldn't be allowed.

I'm not just talking about education for the benefit of the convict but education that benefits society. These people need to be reprogrammed or re-educated to operate properly in society. They should also be taught skills that are useful to society not what they would like to learn.

Many have done trades and earned skills when in fact, they should get damn all.
In Ireland, commit a serious crime and wreck someones life, go to jail where you
are fed, clothed and educated and trained, use of libraries and gyms...It's a disgrace!

The bare minimum they should receive, food and shelter and the minimalist of exercise.

I ask, would anyone here be all for eduacating and helping and rehabilitating a person
who commits a heinous and vicious crime against them or a member of their family?

Joe O'Reilly is busy studying away in prison and making full
use of his cosy time in prison. It's a damn shame that his ex wife Rachel
wasn't so fortunate

I think people need to separate what they'd like to see happen to these people from what's best for society and the state. If someone does anything horrible to your family you want them them to die slowly and suffer. Over time if that person shows remorse though victims family's have been known to forgive.

ayapatrick

Went to visit castlrea as well with my school ages ago, and it looks like it aint a bad deal. The food they were being served surprised me! :eek: ,pork chops was on the menu that day!
Its too much like a holiday i think!

whadabouchasir

ayapatrick wrote: »

. The food they were being served surprised me! :eek: ,pork chops was on the menu that day!
Its too much like a holiday i think!

But what if they don't like pork chops?

jumpguy

Prison works great, it's hilarious to watch them squirm. The best ones are the ones who hurl lame insults and keep going for like an hour even though they've said they don't care if they're not unbanned about 10 posts up. Pfft...as if they have a life...we're onto them.


Hope I'm not the 4th person to make that joke.