The divide: Europhile vs Anglophile

REAL LIFE HOOD

Which side of the fence are you on?

In Ireland we have a cultural divide, those of us who associate with Europeaness and those of us who associate with Anglo-Saxoness.

Quite often the Europhile will have a proficency in Irish and another European language(French most likely) as well as English.

The Anglophile will be monolingual and view Oz as their only destination and hope that USA recovers if they are to emmigrate, while the Europhile will look closer to home.

The Anglosaxon has a great love of the USA, and feels 'we're closer to the yanks than 'the europeans'(*note they will generalise europeans as one big group(minus Ireland and perhaps UK) just like the Brit media or a non-European would) and would rather spend a week in New York than Paris. The Europhile views the USA as an 'interesting place' but not a place they'd like to live. Views Americans as fat slobs while the Anglophile sees Americans as hot.

amacachi

Heh, if that's the idea for a paper you might want to do a little more research before committing to it because most of it is BS.

REAL LIFE HOOD

not a paper an observation.

Whiskey Devil

Paedo...

Rented Mule

Which side is the 'No' side on ?

Senna

REAL LIFE HOOD wrote: »

Which side of the fence are you on?

One leg each side and just keep grinding away:cool:

SoupyNorman

No to Lisbon for some and miniature American flags for the rest, there, that should appease the OP.

Kold

What a load of toss. Where'd you rip that from OP?

Simi

SoupyNorman wrote: »

No to Lisbon for some and miniature American flags for the rest, there, that should appease the OP.

Abortions for all...

raah!

REAL LIFE HOOD wrote: »

In Ireland we have a cultural divide, those of us who associate with Europeaness and those of us who associate with Anglo-Saxoness.

What about people who associate with irishness?

K4t

This Lisbon Treaty has given rise to some very, very strange people.

Pygmalion

raah! wrote: »

What about people who associate with irishness?

We call them raah!heads

m@cc@

REAL LIFE HOOD wrote: »

not a paper an observation.

Looks like an observation from having met only 2 Irish people.

raah!

Pygmalion wrote: »

We call them raah!heads

:O ! I see, well I'll have know I in no way associate with irishness of any kind, but was merely pointing out that there were indeed more than two classes of people in ireland. People who associate with irishness are one such class, and maybe you could call some of them RA heads, but my name would have nothing to do with that. It's more to do with a noise.

Sir Gallagher

Europeans are weirdos yet have great organisational skills.

TheCardHolder

This deserves to be put on failblog.

Patricide

I wouldnt call myself either id just call myself Irish. You know who has allegiances to neither europe or the us oz or the rest of the world for that matter, only our little island.

FutureTaoiseach

I don't see myself as an Anglophile but in recent years I have become more spiritually close to Boston than Berlin, notably in my support for Small Government. The failings of our health-service seem evidence enough to me that Big Government doesn't work. So we can learn from them. I am uncomfortable with being called an Anglophile because of its Unionist connotations - and I am no Unionist. But equally, I regard bitter Anglophobia as outdated in the post-Troubles era. There should be no obstacles to cooperation between our two countries, in a context that respects each other's sovereignty, but I would not support rejoining the Commonwealth.

On the other hand, on Iraq and Israel I am closer to the peaceniks of continental Europe, and likewise with respect to the global-warming debate. And I dislike America's gun culture and what I regard as the excessive overlap of religion and politics on the American Right.

amacachi

I wouldn't have said that Boston would be a good example of how you want small government. :pac:

FutureTaoiseach

amacachi wrote: »

I wouldn't have said that Boston would be a good example of how you want small government. :pac:

I meant it in the context of a symbol (however imperfect) of America as a whole but you are right.

Gummy Panda

What about if you are a weebo?

Kold

Weeaboo?

Gummy Panda

Kold wrote: »

Weeaboo?

Yeah that's it. Wannabie japanese

thomond2006

Fup off ya pedophile!

vinylbomb

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Europeans are weirdos yet have great organisational skills.

Thats Germans you're thinking of. Italians and Spanish couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery.

Nodin

vinylbomb wrote: »

Thats Germans you're thinking of. Italians and Spanish couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery.

Stylish feckers though.

The Italians are quite well organised, its just not the kind organisation we're used to.

Dyr

Let yiz in on a little secret: historically and culturally, we ARE much closer to the yanks and even...gasp... the brits...we were never really a part of the european experience.

biko

I'd be a Europhile

whadabouchasir

Nodin wrote: »

The Italians are quite well organised, its just not the kind organisation we're used to.

Ya organised crime.

REAL LIFE HOOD

Bambi wrote: »

Let yiz in on a little secret: historically and culturally, we ARE much closer to the yanks and even...gasp... the brits...we were never really a part of the european experience.

the brits are europeans but they don't see themselves as european.

people from all countries emmigrated to the new world it wasn't just an irish experience. in polish papers they often joke(not that funny but ye) how poland should leave EU and become a state of usa.

Míshásta

We're not Anglophiles - we're just English without royalty.

Take away the accents and maybe hurling and we're just a provincial off-shore island of Britain.

Agus sin a bhfuil de.

luckylucky

Bambi wrote: »

Let yiz in on a little secret: historically and culturally, we ARE much closer to the yanks and even...gasp... the brits...we were never really a part of the european experience.

It's believed early settlement in Ireland came from Iberian Peninsula
Irish missionaries to Europe during the dark ages.
Viking settlement and raiding during the latter part of the 1st millenium.
European elite sending their kids to be educated in the isle of Saints and Scholars.
Irish mercenaries in the armies of Europe in the Middle ages.

Not saying we are not close to Yanks and to Brits but we were definitely part of the European experience.

netwhizkid

I am far closer to the USA than Europe, I beleive in limited Government and personal liberty, I am right wing but see some great things in Europe also like German efficiency and ingenuity and the physical beauty of the women of Czech Republic, Slovakia, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia,

Ireland on the other hand has Scandanavian levels of expenditure and expectations with Mediterranean productivity rates.

Germany and the Czech Republic are the heartland of Europe,(Europe's Ohio) wheras Ireland is bit like Alaska far flung and very different to the rest of the continent. England is Europe's Canada. Ireland is not European and we speak English, I have no association with Europe and think we should be closer to our own kith and kin.

I have no time for Europe and think we should withdraw from the EU totally.

rantyface

netwhizzkid, your model is what caused this crash. Countries like Norway and Canada with a lot of regulation are the best off in the world right now. It was a nice idea, but a lot of people are suffering for it.


Anyway, I don't particularly affiliate withe either, although I prefer Europe.

Beanstalk

european in the arse to the good name of qualified, balanced research skills op. :pac:

scottledeuce

I've just started my erasmus period and have been thrown in a mixing pot of about 50 or so nationalitys..
Who I feel closer to and get along with has nothing to do with being anglosaxon or european but has more to do with drinking culture

I could give a David Brent one word description on each nationality but while not racist myself it would definately come off as borderline racist even though it's just my first impressions.

For example
Spanish..Sleazy..loud..like rubbish music
Polish..Cool and have a really high regard for Irish people and culture(at least those who haven't lived there yet)
French..Condescending..enough said...excluding people from britanny who seem more celtic.
Nordic(Fins, Swedes, Danes Norwegian's)...Almost identical to us irish.

Anyway before I get in trouble I would put americans, austrailians etc on the lower half of the list and most nothern european countries including Germany on the upper half so yea I guess European for me

REAL LIFE HOOD

netwhizkid wrote: »

I am far closer to the USA than Europe, I beleive in limited Government and personal liberty, I am right wing but see some great things in Europe also like German efficiency and ingenuity and the physical beauty of the women of Czech Republic, Slovakia, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia,

Ireland on the other hand has Scandanavian levels of expenditure and expectations with Mediterranean productivity rates.

Germany and the Czech Republic are the heartland of Europe,(Europe's Ohio) wheras Ireland is bit like Alaska far flung and very different to the rest of the continent. England is Europe's Canada. Ireland is not European and we speak English, I have no association with Europe and think we should be closer to our own kith and kin.

I have no time for Europe and think we should withdraw from the EU totally.

remind me of what the hell europe is? all european nations are different generally to each other, there are overlap in cultures of course(scandanavia, north west european isles or british isles, Benalux) but there is no common European identity. A person is Bavaria may very well regard a Berliner as foreigner. Spain hardly resembles a nation either.

i go to france every year(the countryside) and don't feel foreign.

ScumLord

I love Europe and I love being part of it. I love travelling around Europe and I love the Euro. I love the diversity and I wouldn't ask any European culture to change for anything, it's what makes them so great to visit. I love the comradely that young Europeans have for each other.

People may call the French condescending but I haven't seen that any where else other than in Paris, a fashionable city that's jaded by tourism, but Paris isn't France like Dublin isn't Ireland. My town is twined with a small French town and their far from condescending just like any of the French I've had couchsurf with me aren't condescending either.

I'm as European as I am Irish and wouldn't want that to change for the world. Europe has been the most culturally important continent in the world for thousands of years and I don't see that changing any time soon. Europe is a great influence on Ireland and despite our flaws the rest of Europe loves us.

Rebelheart

Rented Mule wrote: »

Which side is the 'No' side on ?

The 'No' side is obviously on the anglophile side just as are all of those who want Ireland to be in something they term the "British Isles".

Euroscepticism and pro-Britishness are the two bedfellows of everybody who finds the Sunday Independent and all the anti-European/pro-British Oirish tabloids intellectually stimulating.

Rebelheart

REAL LIFE HOOD wrote: »

Which side of the fence are you on?

In Ireland we have a cultural divide, those of us who associate with Europeaness and those of us who associate with Anglo-Saxoness.

Quite often the Europhile will have a proficency in Irish and another European language(French most likely) as well as English.

The Anglophile will be monolingual and view Oz as their only destination and hope that USA recovers if they are to emmigrate, while the Europhile will look closer to home.

The Anglosaxon has a great love of the USA, and feels 'we're closer to the yanks than 'the europeans'(*note they will generalise europeans as one big group(minus Ireland and perhaps UK) just like the Brit media or a non-European would)

Never mind the undereducated tabloid-reading, British soccer following masses here. You have the divide correct, eerily spot-on in fact.

Rebelheart

Kold wrote: »

What a load of toss. Where'd you rip that from OP?

Perhaps saying why you think it is "tosh" (ahem!) would be more constructive that simply name calling.

Rebelheart

raah! wrote: »

What about people who associate with irishness?

Good contribution. I associate passionately with Irishness but I have yet to find somebody offer an Irish intellectual and cultural alternative to the deeply anglocentric concept which has passed as Irishness since about 1800. Rather Irishness has caved in to it to the extent that defending Irishness is now about defending this anglocentric society against a project, the European Union, whch is and will make this society a far less anglocentric society and much more healthy, eurocentric society.

It's an absurd turn for Irish history that the ostensible "Irish" nationalists arguing against Lisbon are in fact aligning with British rightwingers who have caused nothing but misery to the Irish people and all those who have fought for the freedom of Ireland. Maybe, just maybe, being against Lisbon is in fact being against more Irish freedom from the suffocating dominance of the British state and its culture?

Perish the thought.

prinz

Rebelheart wrote: »

It's an absurd turn for Irish history that the ostensible "Irish" nationalists arguing against Lisbon are in fact aligning with British rightwingers who have caused nothing but misery to the Irish people and all those who have fought for the freedom of Ireland. Maybe, just maybe, being against Lisbon is in fact being against more Irish freedom from the suffocating dominance of the British state and its culture?

Perish the thought.

It pains me to say it, but yeah I agree with that.

Dyr

luckylucky wrote: »

It's believed early settlement in Ireland came from Iberian Peninsula
Irish missionaries to Europe during the dark ages.
Viking settlement and raiding during the latter part of the 1st millenium.
European elite sending their kids to be educated in the isle of Saints and Scholars.
Irish mercenaries in the armies of Europe in the Middle ages.

Not saying we are not close to Yanks and to Brits but we were definitely part of the European experience.

nah we really ain't if the latest example you can come up with is the middle ages..we were never really a part of the european experience.

Though I'd imagine that the education system has been assuring the youngsters that they're now good little europeans. It's as fake as the brits attempts to convince us that we were part of the home countries.

luckylucky

Bambi wrote: »

nah we really ain't if the latest example you can come up with is the middle ages..we were never really a part of the european experience.

Well you are using the term were - that's past tense - the middle ages is in the past tense - unless I'm living in some alternative reaility - so yes we WERE very much part of the European experience. Much less so I would agree subsequent to invasions from the other island.

And if you don't want to do past tense - then in the present we are very much part of the european experience, just as we also have close ties to the anglo-centric world.

Anyway not referring to you Bambi but some of the comments on here make me squirm so much that if I wasn't Irish myself ....ala 'I'm not racist' but comments like this....

scottledeuce wrote: »

Spanish..Sleazy..loud..like rubbish music
French..Condescending..enough said...excluding people from britanny who seem more celtic.

I think it just goes to show sometimes it doesn't matter where the fk someone is from - you can have more in common with someone these days from half a world away than someone who lives down the road from you.

HalloweenJack

I'm a hispanophile, so europhile in a way.

REAL LIFE HOOD

What a load of crap. Ireland not part of European experience? People from this Island, Irish people. shaped the freaking thing. I'm not religous but people Columbanus were instrumental in ensuring the Christianisation of Europe which was huge at the time

St. Gallen in Switzerland was formed by an Irish Monk Gallus.

Our relationship with countries like France and Spain goes back hundreds if not thousands of years.

The problem as Rebelheart points out is that the British elites have turned sections of Irish society against our European brothers and sisters and turned us into a land of fish and chips.

We should not allow ourselves to be influenced into behaving like a sub set of the Little englanders, we are better than that, they have tried to destroy our attachments with Europe wanting to control us culturally, socially and economically, I want to be part of a larger and better culture that that myopic xenophobic insularity.

Seamus Heaney: In order for Ireland to become a new Ireland she must first become European.

A post from another forum:

Well now we see that you do not know your ,history ,some of you .
France is full of Irish blood .If it was not for France many more Irish would have been slaughtered.Not only were they a shelter for fleeing Irish but they sent armies to help ,losing their men for our cause.One of the only battles truly won against the English was in 1798[or near]when a M.Humbert soundly vanquished the biggest number of English ever.
An Irishman Joseph Kavanagh led the atack on the bastille ,was a top policeman
in Paris,along with priest and many others who took part .One of the best women writers ever Julia Kavanagh wrote and died in France in 1874.The list is endless .
The Centre Culturelle Irelandais is in the 5th arrondisement in Paris and dates back to a Jesuit college founded therein the 15th cent .?
It was Irish monks etc who founded universities in France ,Spain etc
The connection with Amerika on any scale only took part after the famine.
It was protestant U.K ,dutch etc who founded Ameriky ,and the Irish arrived to do the dirty work.
In France they were not only sheltered ,but loved and seen as allies.
There are street names and so on ,endless soldiers, officers in armies .
Learn French ,and enjoy your cousins.There are groups of musicians here who you would think were Irish .Probably ,because they are in the genes

If I had been able to shape this country, Irish would be the first language with French the second. English would be a business language and nothing more.