Guitarists - Too Soon for a Band?

Caught · 07-09-2009 7:14pm #1

Hi
I am going on 15 and having been learning to play the guitar and was wondering how soon is too soon to start/join a band. I can do vocals I guess, not sure if I sound the same to others as I do in my head though! I sound decent to do the part for a while, but if Im like that outside? Haha.

I know the more experience the better. I can play barchords [even if they dont sound the best!], do a grand bit of fingerstyle and the normal chords are super.

I only play acoustic, and am getting an electric for Christmas. While I'm making a topic, are they different to play? Obviously they sound different, but if Im reading a songs chords, is an E acoustic different structure-wise to an E electric?

Regards
Caught

ride-the-spiral · 07-09-2009 7:31pm

Well first of all you should ask some of this in the playing and techniques rather than here but i suppose it's sorta relevant.

You don't really sound like you have alot of experience yet, and also if your equipment doesn't really sound good than it's hard to get a good sound out of anything so playing in a band would be hard. Playing with other musicians won't really matter if your tone is bad.

I wouldn't be thinking about any serious commitments yet but if you feel confident in your ability then just playing with fellow musicians that might be learning at your level can help.

But if you were to think of starting or joining a band then obviously you'd have to be able to do a fair few cover songs and perhaps down the line write songs. But be aware that songwriting ability does not come with technique. If you want to write songs you would have to have the technique to play what you write and the theory knowledge to write it in the first place.

And about playing electric, It's alot easier on your fingers to play electric and is sometimes suggested to start with it because of it. You shouldn't have any problems doing so if you started with an acoustic.

EDIT: More to say sorry... Don't rush into anything, the biggest mistake anybody can make with playing as a musician is seeking instant gratification. I've been playing for 3 years and I'm 17, I've been in a going nowhere band since i started playing and haven't got any gratification from it. You should focus more on learning to play and write well at this early stage and be ready to put time in. It will be worth it in the end and going headfirst into any situation because you just really want to be in a band will leave you disappointed as i have found.

Caught · 07-09-2009 8:12pm

Thank you ride-the-spiral

First of all, sorry for posting in the wrong area.

Secondly, my guitar teacher told me at the very beginning my guitar is bad, as the strings are very high of the board and its very hard to tune, resulting in bad barchords [the high string bit, I mean].

Thirdly, in response to what you were saying about the songs. I've been playing some Taylor Swift stuff since about the beginning of June. Easy enough, mainly D's E's etc. But then I'd be playing Demi Lovato, James Morrison, Jonas Brothers, the Beatles etc too. I've been writing songs since I was about 11. It just went nowhere with no instruments.

I do be sending my friends random sections of songs, mine and other artists, and say things like "I love this bit" and "I think this song could of been better with these lyrics" so they comment honestly, without knowing I may of written any of the lyrics. I'd also play songs that we love and hate, so they'd be like "thats a cool song, who is it by?" or "I dont like that song at all."

I wanted to play electric first but my mam, guitar playing uncle and guitar teacher were all against it.

I get instant gratification just knowing I can play the guitar. I adore my guitar and I absolutely love playing it. Knowing I can play it is enough to satisfy me.

Thank you for the comments on that stuff. Basically, that was a no? :rolleyes:

ride-the-spiral · 07-09-2009 8:27pm

Well i wouldn't necessarily say no now... If you just want to sing and play chords with it rather than write complicated instrumentation maybe you should try start something with your friends, especially if you have songs written.

And why are your uncle and guitar teacher against electric may I ask??

Overall you seem to know what you want and are focused so maybe just work on your songwriting, writing lyrics to chords and stuff. What sorta style are you aiming for? Who are your influences?

Lurcher · 07-09-2009 8:35pm

I'd say, hold off a while. If you have friends locally you can jam with, so much the better. Nothing like it for improving your knowledge without the pressure of guys who want to get gigging asap.
Starting on an acoustic, especially a poor one, is a sure test of your determination so well done so far. Getting an electric that's good enough to make progress on is comparatively costly. Certainly allow about €300 for an okay guitar. A good practice amp (Roland or Peavey) is around €100 but better that than 60 or so on something that sounds bad and is unreliable. Probably the best value in Ireland for guitars is the Cort brand. I own one and have played several others and they play like guitars costing twice the price.
When you do switch, and I know you will, you'll find electrics so much easier to play that your technique will take a big leap forward. Something to look forward to.
Good luck fellah.

Brian

Caught · 09-09-2009 6:47pm

ride-the-spiral wrote: »

Well i wouldn't necessarily say no now... If you just want to sing and play chords with it rather than write complicated instrumentation maybe you should try start something with your friends, especially if you have songs written.

And why are your uncle and guitar teacher against electric may I ask??

Overall you seem to know what you want and are focused so maybe just work on your songwriting, writing lyrics to chords and stuff. What sorta style are you aiming for? Who are your influences?

Thanks. The only people I know that play guitar arent exactly friends with me. We talk, mess, MSN and stuff, two likes me, but one just seems to hate me. :P

My guitar teacher says that I should get a better acoustic first, and my uncle said it was gonna be messy or something if I learned electric first and then moved onto acoustic, and that trying acoustic first was better incase I didnt want to learn the electric afterwards.

I'd like a poppy rocky sound. I adore the song "Catch Me" by Demi Lovato [hence the nickname], and love rock songs that have a poppy edge. Id love even one song that sounds like Catch Me. Cant think of any at the moment. Nobodys ever really very happy with what music I like the best:

The Jonas Brothers
The Script
Demi Lovato
Taylor Swift
Westlife
Miley Cyrus
Michael Buble
Red Jumpsuit Apparatus
Never Shout Never
The Shower Scene
Mission District
Jody Has A Hitlist
Alesha Dixon
The Beatles [okay I guess]
Bon Jovi
The Clash
Coldplay
James Morrison
Daft Punk
Mika
Metro Station

The main radio stations for me are Phantom and Spin 1038. Dunno what style they'd be called though.

Lurcher wrote: »

I'd say, hold off a while. If you have friends locally you can jam with, so much the better. Nothing like it for improving your knowledge without the pressure of guys who want to get gigging asap.
Starting on an acoustic, especially a poor one, is a sure test of your determination so well done so far. Getting an electric that's good enough to make progress on is comparatively costly. Certainly allow about €300 for an okay guitar. A good practice amp (Roland or Peavey) is around €100 but better that than 60 or so on something that sounds bad and is unreliable. Probably the best value in Ireland for guitars is the Cort brand. I own one and have played several others and they play like guitars costing twice the price.
When you do switch, and I know you will, you'll find electrics so much easier to play that your technique will take a big leap forward. Something to look forward to.
Good luck fellah.

Brian

Thanks mate. Im a girl. :P

Determination is right! I wanted a guitar since I was like 6. I got my first guitar as a present when I was 10. Always wanted to play, just never got taught. Then when I kept trying to play it last year [and broke a string] my uncle checked it out. It was too hard -and small- to play. I was given a new one as a present from my aunty and Nana. I originally tried teaching myself. Im left handed and just kept getting confused then. When I broke a string I had to get lessons, as I couldnt replace it.

I will look at Cort guitars. Was planning on getting this Les Paul by Epiphone. Looking for opinions anyway. So while Im typing, anyone got any pointers or atin?

Thanks mates.

novarock · 09-09-2009 10:53pm

Just keep practicing really. If you have a couple of friends around that play as well suggest that you practice together. Id say thats how 90% of musicians start off. A majority would also play just covers when they are starting off with someone else.

Pick a couple of songs that you like that sound simple enough to play, and go from there.

In terms of good starter guitars look at the following:

Yamaha Pacifica
Squier stratocaster
Any cheap cort

Guitar amps for a beginner:
Roland Cube
Orange Tiny Terror

You can get all of the above on a german website (www.thomann.de) right to your door. It is cheaper than buying them in ireland by quite a lot. (You probably will need to ask your parents nicely to use their credit card!)

Im left handed as well, Ive actually owned one of those Epiphone's before. Its ok to start on, but once you progress a little you will start to see why its not great. The more expensive Epiphones are different however. You should have no trouble with the others mentioned above as a starter electric.

Keep at it though! Trust me, after a few years it gets a whole lot easier!

Caught · 10-09-2009 6:50pm

novarock wrote: »

Just keep practicing really. If you have a couple of friends around that play as well suggest that you practice together. Id say thats how 90% of musicians start off. A majority would also play just covers when they are starting off with someone else.

Pick a couple of songs that you like that sound simple enough to play, and go from there.

In terms of good starter guitars look at the following:

Yamaha Pacifica
Squier stratocaster
Any cheap cort

Guitar amps for a beginner:
Roland Cube
Orange Tiny Terror

You can get all of the above on a german website (www.thomann.de) right to your door. It is cheaper than buying them in ireland by quite a lot. (You probably will need to ask your parents nicely to use their credit card!)

Im left handed as well, Ive actually owned one of those Epiphone's before. Its ok to start on, but once you progress a little you will start to see why its not great. The more expensive Epiphones are different however. You should have no trouble with the others mentioned above as a starter electric.

Keep at it though! Trust me, after a few years it gets a whole lot easier!

My uncle told me not to get a Squier strat coz the strings are too high off the board or something. I was gonna go to Thomann but my Mam already had an account with Gears4Music or something.

Thanks Mate,
Caught

fso · 10-09-2009 7:54pm

Man, go to the music stores and try some of the guitars, any of the SXs would be OK to start with, you should see my first e-guitar, it was a piece of rubbish.

My wife bought a Burswood for my son in Smiths last Christmas for 66 euro! fantastic guitar for the price, I wish I had that from day one...

My parents made me study classical guitar for years when all I wanted was the electric guitar. Took me years to get one at last, and had to work for 6 months to pay for it.

I think the pain of going through this made me enjoy my electric guitar immensely in the end.

Guitareaxe · 10-09-2009 8:01pm

Hi there, as far as beginner electric guitars go I would highly recommend the Peavey "tele" copy Ive seen them in music maker at 130 ish. If you want an excellent midway guitar that you could play on stage with and not sound like your gear is cheap then an epiphone les paul copy "standards" the way to go, these can be more expensive and depending on the model, pickups and year can cost between 300 and 700 euro. They sell lovely epiphone sg copys for around 150 in waltons, These are also a great starter.

I would personally warn against the squire strats, Ive had 3 in my lifetime, got them for free off mates and ended up giving them away for free. They really really suck IMO, they can be modified to be a decent guitar but the shop pickups and wiring you get with them are terrible, and the factory setup is always way off! the wiring isnt sheilded at all mine used to pick up radio stations!

I started in my first band at 15 but I was already quite advanced for my age at the time, being able to play practically every metallica and slayer song out then, and also every smashing pumpkins and radiohead song. that was before the internet was popular so it was all tab books and learning by ear, Thats how I learned before studying theory 8 years later.

Ive been doing the band thing for 10 years, both professional covers bands and original rock/metal bands. From your description of your skills so far I personally think you arent near ready to advertise yourself as a guitarist available. To save yourself the dissapointment of being refused after auditions I would highly recommend giving it another year of practice and also taking lessons from a professional teacher. Gumtree.ie is a good place to find local guitar teachers, I know you say your uncles a guitarist but if he thought electric was a bad idea for a beginner then he's obviously not very knowledgable, go find a pro teacher in your area, give it a year and then you will be ready to start your journey into the world of bands.

These are just my opinions but if you dont even have your basic barchords: major + minor on the 6th string, and major + minor on the 5th string down yet your original music isnt gonna be very good, no matter how good you are at songwriting it takes at least basic theory knowledge to write new and interesting music.

As far as singing goes be wary! everyone believes they are a great singer at some point, we all sound good in our heads! record yourself singing and listen to it before you go singing to others lest you embarrase your self xfactor style! If you like your voice recorded and your hitting all the notes with good tone then you can be confidant when you say you are a singer. Im not saying your not a good singer or do not have allot of potential as a musician but you seem to lack some basics which you will need to get to grips with before any band takes you seriously.

regards
jim

Drake22 · 11-09-2009 3:45am

This must be a joke? Yeah it's a joke. You asked if it was okay to join or start a band at 15 at your age and with your experience (or lack of) already knowing the answer to your question before typing and posting it.. what was the point? No matter what advice we give you, you already made up your mind it seems as if you just wanted confirmation on your dreamy thought.
You don't even have an electric guitar or amp just an accoustic you've been practising on for a short little while and you're already jumping the gun to a band? Settle down. Get your first electric guitar/bargain amp/ practise lots get solid foundation then talk about being in a band. You need to develope love and passion for music FIRST. This takes TIME and a LONG time at that.

Seems as though you don't have much knowledge but I guess everyone has to start somewhere. It just makes me sick these days watching young kids buy guitars play them for a week learn some basic chords and quick to run around "LOL LET'S START TEH BAND PZL" Of course. That is what techonology and the internet does to the new generation. At the Press Of A Button It Comes To You. The age where the word patient has lost it's meaning and everything is a me me and now i need right now wah wah. Same goes for music it's becoming lost.

Taylor Swift?? JONAS Brothers???? Daft Punk, Demi Lovato??? Miley Cirus??
To each their own but your taste in music tells me one thing. You Have a Very Limited Knowledge in Music. The beauty of music is it's TIMELESS- BOUNDLESS- entity.. yes, great artists/compositions and songs LAST FOREVER. You can listen them 20 times and come back to them 20 years later and love them even more. ROFL jonas brothers jesus christ your taste in music is the same manufactured crap that is "hip" for a year and fades away. 1 year from now you will hear a jonas brothers song and wonder what you were thinking..anyways, all i've said is negative things so i'll end with positives. I'm done my rant

before everyone flames me MAKE SURE YOU READ my entire post

HERE IS WHAT YOU DO.

1. developing love for music is your FIRST priority... and listening to taylor swift after you come home from your high school class feeling depressed because that boy made a comment about your weight because it's the end of the world and you can relate to her doesn't mean a thing, lmao. Jonas brothers? ROOFL

2. Take 1-2 years off and let go of your sad fairy tale dream and STUDY music history on your spare time and get a qualified professional or good guitar teacher with positive reviews from past students.

3. Find some like-minded locals (this does NOT mean other idiots who cry to jonas brothers songs) but individuals who are on a path to becoming a GOOD musician

3. LEARN BASIC THEORY, just the BASICS... THE VERY BASICS is the LEAST you have to do. playing covers of miley cyrus on an accoustic doesn't make you anything. Nothing. You will not learn a thing.

4. Learn ALL the minor/major, 5th, 6th, chords and finger positions and GET COMFORTABLE with them. This is will take a long time to do. You should be able to play about 20 chords in at least 3 different places on the fretboard.. (do you even know what a fretboard is?? learn the mechanics of a guitar.. the bridge/nut, neck, TRUSS ROD, what makes it bow, what gives it high action low action, learn how to do a set up, all this is fairly simple if you take a few minutes and learn it so you don't have to pay some guitar shop 100 dollars for a measly setup which you probably won't like)

5. Learn some music foundations, remember back to your elementary school music teacher when playing the xylaphone and recorder?? remember diatonic, pentatonic, C? learn what keys mean. Learn the chords and notes that FALL in the basic keys of C, D G minor and major, ETC. FOR GOD'S SAKE AT LEAST LEARN the basic pentatonic minor/major scales. How are you going to be in a band if you don't know the basic scale? you will only limit yourself to covers and you will not understand how the small phrases and solos work in the songs you hear.

6. LEARN basic 4bar-12bar BLUES and basic JAZZ/FUNK chords and learn the chord versions of the rock power chords. basically learn the basics of each music style (etc blues, rock/pop/jazz/country)

7. ALWAYS and i repeat ALWAYS play with a metronome (it's a thing which teaches you to play on beat so when you're in a band you can play with the drummer)

8. get a decent amp, any 15 watt practise amp will do you good etc Peavey, Fender, RAGEpro, ROland, Behringer, Line6, get a basic cheap low end pedal to start you off, like a used Boss DS-1 u can get for 15-20 bucks or like a danelectro dist for like 10 bucks

9. Refer back to step 2, BEFORE steps 3-8 i'm gonna say this again LEARN MUSIC HISTORY, spend time going into record shops spend time researching popular bands from the 40's-50's-60's-70's-80's LEARN and KNOW what was popular and how music styles came to be and LEARN exactly WHO influenced WHO.

10. Listen to LOTS of different types of MUSIC this is a lot of work and should require great digging and research but you MUST do ALL these steps to even be a decent guitarist/musician who is serious about anything. Learn what made the great timeless musicians tick listen to their masterpieces and learn and listen

11. Start with the 1800's and spend time listening to orchestra and beehtoven and bach, i reccommend tchaikovsky's nutcracker suit it's AMAZING, work your way to the 1940's and learn chuck berry and leonerd cohen the GREATS and TRUE artists know their songs develope a taste and passion.

12. if you are smart and know anything about music and are serious then you WILL know and appreciate who these artists are: Neil Young, Bob Dylan, George Harrison,John Lennon, Buddy Holly, Jimmi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Pearl Jam, Michael Jackson, etc, of ourse these are some examples of what i could think of in the top of my head but a good reference point for a beginner is the rolling stones 500 greatist albums of all time. look at ALL 500!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes ALL OF THEM.. we all know rolling stone is bla and their choice of 500 is debatable blah but that's not the point it's just a reference point, this will enable you learn who was great in what decade and with that knowledge you can do more research and find more artists no one knows about and find more great music to listen to and to appreciate. Once you've spent months doing this and have an arsenal of music you appreciate and love you will come back to the music now and laugh and you will be ready to start your guitar training and theory learning.

13. i will say this.. forget about the EQUIPMENT and HARDWARE that can come easily with money, is VERY Attainable it doesn't matter if you have a lousy guitar or amazing guitar that can come INSTANTLY with money or a job.. but you want to work yourself slowly to getting those great instruments. the hard part of being a musician is the TIME and DEDICATION to practising and playing and LEARNING music theory and knowledge and listening to great music of the past. THIS IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT.
14. DO NOT RUSH

15. DO NOT RUSH

16. DO NOT RUSH

17. it takes TIME be patient, A LONG TIME, of dedicatin EVERYDAY with many many years.

i'm tired i'm going to bed there's probably mroe i was going to say but i'll say it when i remember tomorrow btw sorry for bad grammar and spelling and running sentences

novarock · 11-09-2009 4:10am

Drake22 wrote: »

This must be a joke? Yeah it's a joke. You asked if it was okay to join or start a band at 15 at your age and with your experience (or lack of) already knowing the answer to your question before typing and posting it.. what was the point? No matter what advice we give you, you already made up your mind it seems as if you just wanted confirmation on your dreamy thought.
You don't even have an electric guitar or amp just an accoustic you've been practising on for a short little while and you're already jumping the gun to a band? Settle down. Get your first electric guitar/bargain amp/ practise lots get solid foundation then talk about being in a band. You need to develope love and passion for music FIRST. This takes TIME and a LONG time at that.

Seems as though you don't have much knowledge but I guess everyone has to start somewhere. It just makes me sick these days watching young kids buy guitars play them for a week learn some basic chords and quick to run around "LOL LET'S START TEH BAND PZL" Of course. That is what techonology and the internet does to the new generation. At the Press Of A Button It Comes To You. The age where the word patient has lost it's meaning and everything is a me me and now i need right now wah wah. Same goes for music it's becoming lost.

Taylor Swift?? JONAS Brothers???? Daft Punk, Demi Lovato??? Miley Cirus??
To each their own but your taste in music tells me one thing. You Have a Very Limited Knowledge in Music. The beauty of music is it's TIMELESS- BOUNDLESS- entity.. yes, great artists/compositions and songs LAST FOREVER. You can listen them 20 times and come back to them 20 years later and love them even more. ROFL jonas brothers jesus christ your taste in music is the same manufactured crap that is "hip" for a year and fades away. 1 year from now you will hear a jonas brothers song and wonder what you were thinking..anyways, all i've said is negative things so i'll end with positives. I'm done my rant

before everyone flames me MAKE SURE YOU READ my entire post

HERE IS WHAT YOU DO.

1. developing love for music is your FIRST priority... and listening to taylor swift after you come home from your high school class feeling depressed because that boy made a comment about your weight because it's the end of the world and you can relate to her doesn't mean a thing, lmao. Jonas brothers? ROOFL

2. Take 1-2 years off and let go of your sad fairy tale dream and STUDY music history on your spare time and get a qualified professional or good guitar teacher with positive reviews from past students.

3. Find some like-minded locals (this does NOT mean other idiots who cry to jonas brothers songs) but individuals who are on a path to becoming a GOOD musician

3. LEARN BASIC THEORY, just the BASICS... THE VERY BASICS is the LEAST you have to do. playing covers of miley cyrus on an accoustic doesn't make you anything. Nothing. You will not learn a thing.

4. Learn ALL the minor/major, 5th, 6th, chords and finger positions and GET COMFORTABLE with them. This is will take a long time to do. You should be able to play about 20 chords in at least 3 different places on the fretboard.. (do you even know what a fretboard is?? learn the mechanics of a guitar.. the bridge/nut, neck, TRUSS ROD, what makes it bow, what gives it high action low action, learn how to do a set up, all this is fairly simple if you take a few minutes and learn it so you don't have to pay some guitar shop 100 dollars for a measly setup which you probably won't like)

5. Learn some music foundations, remember back to your elementary school music teacher when playing the xylaphone and recorder?? remember diatonic, pentatonic, C? learn what keys mean. Learn the chords and notes that FALL in the basic keys of C, D G minor and major, ETC. FOR GOD'S SAKE AT LEAST LEARN the basic pentatonic minor/major scales. How are you going to be in a band if you don't know the basic scale? you will only limit yourself to covers and you will not understand how the small phrases and solos work in the songs you hear.

6. LEARN basic 4bar-12bar BLUES and basic JAZZ/FUNK chords and learn the chord versions of the rock power chords. basically learn the basics of each music style (etc blues, rock/pop/jazz/country)

7. ALWAYS and i repeat ALWAYS play with a metronome (it's a thing which teaches you to play on beat so when you're in a band you can play with the drummer)

8. get a decent amp, any 15 watt practise amp will do you good etc Peavey, Fender, RAGEpro, ROland, Behringer, Line6, get a basic cheap low end pedal to start you off, like a used Boss DS-1 u can get for 15-20 bucks or like a danelectro dist for like 10 bucks

9. Refer back to step 2, BEFORE steps 3-8 i'm gonna say this again LEARN MUSIC HISTORY, spend time going into record shops spend time researching popular bands from the 40's-50's-60's-70's-80's LEARN and KNOW what was popular and how music styles came to be and LEARN exactly WHO influenced WHO.

10. Listen to LOTS of different types of MUSIC this is a lot of work and should require great digging and research but you MUST do ALL these steps to even be a decent guitarist/musician who is serious about anything. Learn what made the great timeless musicians tick listen to their masterpieces and learn and listen

11. Start with the 1800's and spend time listening to orchestra and beehtoven and bach, i reccommend tchaikovsky's nutcracker suit it's AMAZING, work your way to the 1940's and learn chuck berry and leonerd cohen the GREATS and TRUE artists know their songs develope a taste and passion.

12. if you are smart and know anything about music and are serious then you WILL know and appreciate who these artists are: Neil Young, Bob Dylan, George Harrison,John Lennon, Buddy Holly, Jimmi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Pearl Jam, Michael Jackson, etc, of ourse these are some examples of what i could think of in the top of my head but a good reference point for a beginner is the rolling stones 500 greatist albums of all time. look at ALL 500!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes ALL OF THEM.. we all know rolling stone is bla and their choice of 500 is debatable blah but that's not the point it's just a reference point, this will enable you learn who was great in what decade and with that knowledge you can do more research and find more artists no one knows about and find more great music to listen to and to appreciate. Once you've spent months doing this and have an arsenal of music you appreciate and love you will come back to the music now and laugh and you will be ready to start your guitar training and theory learning.

13. i will say this.. forget about the EQUIPMENT and HARDWARE that can come easily with money, is VERY Attainable it doesn't matter if you have a lousy guitar or amazing guitar that can come INSTANTLY with money or a job.. but you want to work yourself slowly to getting those great instruments. the hard part of being a musician is the TIME and DEDICATION to practising and playing and LEARNING music theory and knowledge and listening to great music of the past. THIS IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT.
14. DO NOT RUSH

15. DO NOT RUSH

16. DO NOT RUSH

17. it takes TIME be patient, A LONG TIME, of dedicatin EVERYDAY with many many years.

i'm tired i'm going to bed there's probably mroe i was going to say but i'll say it when i remember tomorrow btw sorry for bad grammar and spelling and running sentences

Are you serious? She wants to play with other musicians, not write Led Zeppelin IV. You make it sound as if to be in a band you have to be a musical prodigy..

Also picking on the musical tastes of someone because they are the polar opposite of yours is not on. Miley Cyrus/Jonas Brothers whatever, they still inspire kids to pick up a guitar. Musical taste is something that develops over a number of years naturally, not something that has to be rammed down your throat on an internet forum!

Mozerst · 11-09-2009 11:16am

Doubtless some of the more loquacious respondents to this thread will disagree with me, but I aver firmly that it's possible to become a self-sufficient musician - in this instance, guitarist - without steeping yourself in some kind of musical core curriculum. I bristle instinctively at the notion that some kind of canon of "greats" exists before which all worthy aspirants must prostrate themselves in worship. One can learn the fundamental aspects of song composition - the interaction between melody and harmony, the interaction between scale and tonality etc. - without absorbing the collected works of The Beatles or Bob Dylan. Furthermore, the notion that each decade contains a select coterie of hallowed geniuses lends itself to the kind of one-dimensional musicological narrative that has sadly dominated both the history of classical music and popular music. The new diversity of the past 40-odd years, spawning an ever-broadening spectrum of genres and sub-genres, is to be treasured.

I'm not trying to flame Drake22 or imply that some of his suggestions are without merit. I couldn't transcribe basic melodies or chord progressions from my inner ear to paper until I had some modicum of music theory at my command. I will never be a fretboard player of any kind unless and until I undertake the kind of rigourous practise that Drake22 suggests. It can be a fascinating exercise to perceive the influence of one artist or several artists upon another. Yet I feel the comprehensive education suggest by Drake22 is more appropriate for a student of musicology than it is for a budding musician.

Finally, the most heretical suggestion I may utter is this: find a band of like-minded, similarly skilled musicians if you can and learn with and through them. Some may advance faster and with less effort than others, but who cares? If you're attentive, jamming will improve your ear and give you an incentive to practise harder on your own. You'll never be a perfect musician unless you're channelling J.S. Bach, so why wait?

Mr Alan · 11-09-2009 1:22pm

U2 couldn't play other peoples songs properly when they formed & could barely play their instruments. They were about your age. And they've done pretty well for themselves.

That post from Drake22 was ridiculous. He obviously thought your question was "how do i disappear up my own arse".

Guitareaxe · 11-09-2009 8:44pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

U2 couldn't play other peoples songs properly when they formed & could barely play their instruments. They were about your age. And they've done pretty well for themselves.

That post from Drake22 was ridiculous. He obviously thought your question was "how do i disappear up my own arse".

U2 embarressed themselves for years as a terrible local band, in the end they learned a bit more about music and got funding off mcguinness, a lucky stroke.

Drake22 may of been a bit intense but I agree with the core of his point.

Im self thought, I figured it out the hard way, I wrote songs and played in bands for years but it wasnt untill I studied music theory that I really had a clue what I was doing. I was using 7ths,9ths,diminished,alt tunings etc for years because I messed around so much on the guitar and went with any shapes that sounded nice to me, little did I know I was playing a bunch of chords and scales I would later study and understand, But Drakes right, if you like manufactured garbage like the Jonas Brothers then your chances of writing music appealing to anyone in the real world is slim to none. The boy asked for a schooling and he got one. Just to clarify that I am not argueing with ya here man, just making a point.

Were all allowed our opinions and thats what the OP asked for.

Mr Alan · 11-09-2009 10:20pm

Guitareaxe wrote: »

U2 embarressed themselves for years as a terrible local band, in the end they learned a bit more about music and got funding off mcguinness, a lucky stroke.

U2 won talent shows all over the country within 18 months of them forming.

And were signed to Island records within 4 years.

Embarrasing themselves for years? not really.

Guitareaxe wrote: »

Drake22 may of been a bit intense but I agree with the core of his point.

The core of his point was bollox.

We can only presume this 15 year old girl doesn't have plans for immediate world domination, we can also assume with her musical tastes being what they are that she is not interested in writing 25 minute rock operas & probably more interested in writing a few tunes with like minded people & having some fun.

Guitareaxe wrote: »

But Drakes right, if you like manufactured garbage like the Jonas Brothers then your chances of writing music appealing to anyone in the real world is slim to none.

The Jonas Brothers have sold nearly 10m albums.

How many have you sold with your "music that appeals to people in the real world"?

Guitareaxe wrote: »

The boy asked for a schooling and he got one. Just to clarify that I am not argueing with ya here man, just making a point.

The girl (young teenager) asked for advice on was she old enough to play music with people in a band style situation & start writing tunes with them.

The answer is undoubtadly yes.

telling her to take a couple of years out to study classical music from the 1800's onwards & learn music theory etc is nonsense, as is even nearly trying to defend it.

fso · 11-09-2009 10:38pm

hummm.... I have been exposed to classical music training for too many years at the start (parents imposed) that wouldn't be sure what to comment on that other than it is useful.

But what I have learned over the years is that music is like writing. In order to write something good you need to read a lot. And in music I would translate that to learning songs, whomever makes them. It increases your musical vocabulary if you wish. I mean to learn full songs by the way, much better to know 2 full songs than the intro to 20.

Now, the internet is just brilliant this days, you can get excellent tools for learning like GuitarPro and the music sheet for free or as low as 99c the song; or even the tutorial videos, many of them free on youtube. I wish we had that back when I started.

And music is like everything, you want to get it right? you need to practice hard and waste no time messing about. Anyway, if you got the passion then it should be no chore.

cheers,
fso

LucyWantsABand! · 22-09-2009 12:18pm

Hi....er, I don't know what most of these guys are saying....but when you said band, did you mean, let's go rock th O2, or lets have a laugh in your garage on saturday? I'm the latter, obviously, and my band is, admittedly, and unashamedly, going nowhere. I play piano/keyboard, and I truly love to sing my own songs. I write a bit for piano and fit my lyrics around my little compostitions but I'm kind of crap....still, I'd love to have a band and a few people interested already...have a friend who's a drummer, but we're really stuck for amateur guitar? Just indie crap, or maybe a little bit greenday, but I like your musicians, they're not bad at all. Just because there's this massive stigma around pop, because it's "meaningless" doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. Most people who dis your choices are so far up their own holes they can't see out, so don't worry about them.

Listen, I'm in Leinster, and I'd love to start a band for fun, so if you're interested, PM me.... thanks.:):):)

Mozerst · 22-09-2009 9:15pm

LucyWantsABand! wrote: »

Listen, I'm in Leinster,

Just wanted to say that that was like a cryptic clue from the Irish Times crossword - "Listen" is indeed in "Leinster", along with 'e' and 'r'. Nice!

Rancidmaniac13 · 24-09-2009 12:04pm

My advice is it's never too early to start playing in a band. The guys are right that a sound technique and basic music theory will stand to you but they made no mention of all the things you learn from just playing in a band. I was in a similar situation to you a few years ago, okay, I had a bit more experience playing the guitar, but joining a band was the best thing I ever did for my technique and musical development.

Just because you want to be in a band doesn't mean you're trying to be the next big thing. Playing in a band is just another way to experience music and you can never have too much experience. Even if it's just a jam with friends, any experience playing with other people will be useful when you do go on to bigger and better things.

Another example here... I started playing in a band when I was 16. We we're all technically good, but it still took us a good while to find our feet on stage and learn how to write music together. Two years later, we add a new guitarist to the mix. He is a very good musician, has a broad knowledge of other music... problem is, he was never in a band before so he now has to go through the same thing we did when we started off.

Sorry for the spiel... point is any band experience is vital. Don't turn down any opportunities to play with other people. You will learn from it, and it's definitely more fun than sitting in your room playing to yourself.

Guitarists - Too Soon for a Band?

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