Lisbon is a referendum for a "new world order" Irish Times.

Run_to_da_hills

This subject was brought up in the recent past however there is an interesting quote in todays Irish Times from Catherine Day, who is secretary-general of the commission. Effectively the head of the EU’s civil service

Ms Day said the treaty will help Europe “to speak with one voice in helping to shape the new world order”.

Interesting she said "the" and not "a" new world order.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0907/1224253999648.html

Torakx

oh ye its on now lol
what do the nay sayers to the new world order say now?

also can someone confirm for me that this is a threat or not?

quote from same article "However, Ms Day also told The Irish Times that if the country voted No, on October 2nd, that “the EU is not punitive and there would be no question of throwing Ireland out [of the EU] or taking repercussions” against the State."

are they saying they are going to throw us out of the eu?
and/or giving us a spanking?

meglome

Again we're back to the obvious point that these politicians mean a better future when they say new world order and not the CT type of NWO.

meglome

Torakx wrote: »

quote from same article "However, Ms Day also told The Irish Times that if the country voted No, on October 2nd, that “the EU is not punitive and there would be no question of throwing Ireland out [of the EU] or taking repercussions” against the State."

are they saying they are going to throw us out of the eu?
and/or giving us a spanking?

That clearly says they will not take any action against us, is it unclear to you? But since everything at the EU is done through negotiation with the other member states anyone who thinks there will be no repercussions to a No vote is sadly mistaken.

Torakx

Torakx wrote: »

quote from same article "However, Ms Day also told The Irish Times that if the country voted No, on October 2nd, that “the EU is not punitive and there would be no question of throwing Ireland out [of the EU] or taking repercussions” against the State."

are they saying they are going to throw us out of the eu?
and/or giving us a spanking?

That's the exact opposite of what she is saying.

She is saying that the EU does not punish countries, and that there is no possibility that Ireland will be thrown out of the EU or be punished.

You'd think that would be fairly clear.

Diogenes

I'm seriously considering rewriting my will to create a fund for "The better understanding of metaphor and simile".

4gun

meglome wrote: »

Again we're back to the obvious point that these politicians mean a better future when they say new world order and not the CT type of NWO.

how is this going to happen mankind has been searching for a better way of organising society since the dawn of time people have come up with some fantastic and brilliant ways or peace and harmony only to have ot corrupted by a few
take the origional message of Jesus the very basic message "love God and treat your fellow man as you would have him treat you"
and dont start going on about how religion divides man that's not true, ...man divides religion
the NWO isn't going to be any better for lower class people the rich will get richer and the division between the classes will become greater

Black Uhlan

Do people ever think that public people mentioning the New World Order is just them throwing a curve ball to distract well meaning observers/analysts from the real issues? I mean it must be common knowledge amongst them that its a buzz word that will get the bloggers blogging about a phrase which is open to interpretation.

constance tench

meglome wrote: »

Again we're back to the obvious point that these politicians mean a better future when they say new world order and not the CT type of NWO.

no, they mean order, (as in a group)..why do think these people are called 'ministers'?

it's been like this since the druids..

uprising

Just got my hands on "The Lisbon Treaty, Your Extended Guide", on the first page it says,

What you are being asked on October 2nd

When you go to vote, you will be asked to vote Yes or No to a
proposal to amend the Constitution to allow Ireland to ratify the

Lisbon Treaty and implement the provisions of that Treaty.


on page 2 it says:

What you are being asked to
decide in the referendum

On referendum day October 2nd, you are being asked to decide whether or not to
change the Constitution of Ireland. This proposed change would allow:

n Ireland to ratify the Lisbon Treaty

n Ireland to agree to certain decisions in the Area of
Freedom, Security and Justice in future with the approval
of the Dáil and Seanad

n Ireland to agree at the European Council to certain changes
to the EU treaties in the future without a referendum but
only with the approval of the Dáil and Seanad

If all EU member states, including Ireland, ratify the Treaty, then it can come into
effect. If Ireland or any other member state does not ratify the Treaty it cannot come

into effect and the EU will continue to operate under its present rules.

Ok so if we vote no, nothing changes, everything stays the same.


But if we vote yes we give away our right to decide on any other treaty after that, we hand control over to the government, we change our constitution and let whoever or whatever is in power at any time in the future to decide for us.
So we are not actually voting for a yes to lisbon, we are voting to change our constitution to allow the government to ratify lisbon and any other treaty after that.
We are giving the Dail and Seanad power to decide yes or no for us for hereafter, no matter what the treaty may be, so in 3, 5 or 10 years time a new treaty may come along, with whatever europe proposes and we the people will have jack sh1t to say about it.
A yes vote is throwing our voice away and leaving it in the hands of idiots, whom most of which havent bothered to even read it.
But this isn't only about now, it's our voice over our destiny gone forever.
So why oh why vote yes, if nothing will change if we vote no, all will continue as is, so we have absolutely nothing to lose by voting NO.

Edit:We are being asked to CHANGE the constitution of Ireland, that means CHANGE it forever, CHANGE it so we never get to decide ourselves again, CHANGE IT SO THE GOVERNMENT SAYS YES OR NO FROM THAT POINT ONWARDS, FOREVER, NOT THE PEOPLE.
See page 2
On referendum day October 2nd, you are being asked to decide whether or not to
change the Constitution of Ireland. This proposed change would allow:
reland to agree at the European Council to certain changes
to the EU treaties in the future without a referendum but
only with the approval of the Dáil and Seanad.
http://www.lisbontreaty2009.ie/lisbon_treaty_extended_guide.pdf

sub-x

meglome wrote: »

Again we're back to the obvious point that these politicians mean a better future when they say new world order and not the CT type of NWO.

Meglome what are you basing this,source,opinion etc..(not trying being a smart arse just interested,obviously because your not coming from a CT point of view)

humanji

sub-x wrote: »

Meglome what are you basing this,source,opinion etc..(not trying being a smart arse just interested,obviously because your not coming from a CT point of view)

Occams Razor. Politicians blow smoke up peoples asses to trick them into voting for them. Which is more likely, a politician talking about a peaceful world where we all live in harmony, or a world where they rule with an iron fist and enslave the rest of us?

humanji

uprising wrote: »

Just got my hands on "The Lisbon Treaty, Your Extended Guide", on the first page it says,

What you are being asked on October 2nd

When you go to vote, you will be asked to vote Yes or No to a
proposal to amend the Constitution to allow Ireland to ratify the

Lisbon Treaty and implement the provisions of that Treaty.

Nothing sinister about that. The whole reason we have referenda is because we can't just change our constitution on a whim. We're not actually voting on the Lisbon treaty.

uprising wrote: »

on page 2 it says:

What you are being asked to
decide in the referendum

On referendum day October 2nd, you are being asked to decide whether or not to
change the Constitution of Ireland. This proposed change would allow:

n

Ireland to ratify the Lisbon Treaty

n

Ireland to agree to certain decisions in the Area of
Freedom, Security and Justice in future with the approval
of the Dáil and Seanad

n

Ireland to agree at the European Council to certain changes
to the EU treaties in the future without a referendum but
only with the approval of the Dáil and Seanad

If all EU member states, including Ireland, ratify the Treaty, then it can come into
effect. If Ireland or any other member state does not ratify the Treaty it cannot come

into effect and the EU will continue to operate under its present rules.

Ok so if we vote no, nothing changes, everything stays the same.


But if we vote yes we give away our right to decide on any other treaty after that, we hand control over to the government, we change our constitution and let whoever or whatever is in power at any time in the future to decide for us.
So we are not actually voting for a yes to lisbon, we are voting to change our constitution to allow the government to ratify lisbon and any other treaty after that.
We are giving the Dail and Seanad power to decide yes or no for us for hereafter, no matter what the treaty may be, so in 3, 5 or 10 years time a new treaty may come along, with whatever europe proposes and we the people will have jack sh1t to say about it.
A yes vote is throwing our voice away and leaving it in the hands of idiots, whom most of which havent bothered to even read it.
But this isn't only about now, it's our voice over our destiny gone forever.
So why oh why vote yes, if nothing will change if we vote no, all will continue as is, so we have absolutely nothing to lose by voting NO.

It's to allow certain changes. Anything that affects our constitution will still have to go to referendum. Basically, the Irish people don't have to vote for every single thing that comes up in front to the EU. It's like when we elect governments to run the country for us.

We will also always have a say in these things as we're the ones who elect our governments.

A no vote continues the discussions behind closed doors, the endless beurocracy and the general lack of democracy. A yes vote is giving us a voice, and transperancy. And most importantly, a way out of the EU, if you feel that it's too corrupt an entity.

bonkey

Guys - I'm getting fed up telling you in thread after thread that this is not the politics forum.

Either discuss the conspiracy-related aspects the OP brought up, or leave the thread.

Nehaxak

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This subject was brought up in the recent past however there is an interesting quote in todays Irish Times from Catherine Day, who is secretary-general of the commission. Effectively the head of the EU’s civil service

Ms Day said the treaty will help Europe “to speak with one voice in helping to shape the new world order”.

Interesting she said "the" and not "a" new world order.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0907/1224253999648.html

What I pick up from her saying "the" instead of "a" would be that she pertains to it already existing rather than something she/they would like to put in place. The use of the phrase "new world order" also seems to be slipping out a lot from some of the more prestigious world leaders, Gordon Brown being another to mention the same.
Though rather than the phrase slipping out, really I'd be more inclined to think it intentional, to get the general Joe public more accustomed to the term being used.

Torakx

Nehaxak wrote: »

What I pick up from her saying "the" instead of "a" would be that she pertains to it already existing rather than something she/they would like to put in place. The use of the phrase "new world order" also seems to be slipping out a lot from some of the more prestigious world leaders, Gordon Brown being another to mention the same.
Though rather than the phrase slipping out, really I'd be more inclined to think it intentional, to get the general Joe public more accustomed to the term being used.

that exactly my thoughts on why they have recently been upping the media coverage of the magic words

humanji

bonkey wrote: »

Guys - I'm getting fed up telling you in thread after thread that this is not the politics forum.

Either discuss the conspiracy-related aspects the OP brought up, or leave the thread.

It's related, though. The sections Uprising quoted can be taken as how the supposed New World Order will seize control of Ireland. That's the whole conspiracy of the treaty.