Spotlight and downlighter bulbs next to be banned by EU

Run_to_da_hills

The EU is to ban these small spot lights and downlighter bulbs next year. My Brother just had these fitted throughout the house. There is no proper alternative for them as CFL will not match anything like the power off halogen bulbs.

"The new ban, due to come in next year, is being pushed through despite an increasingly bitter consumer backlash against existing rules which outlaw the selling of "non-directional" incandescent light bulbs of the kind used in living rooms and bedrooms"

This is another example of European bureaucracy interfering in people's lives.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/6142118/Spotlight-and-downlighter-bulbs-next-to-be-banned-by-EU.html

Cheeble

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This is another example of European bureaucracy interfering in people's lives.

Isn't that a bit of an over-reaction? They're only light bulbs.

Cheeble-eers

Run_to_da_hills

Cheeble wrote: »

Isn't that a bit of an over-reaction? They're only light bulbs. Cheeble-eers

Yes only light bulbs, until they can come up with a decent alternative and subsidise the change over.

What about people that installed low voltage halogen systems in their homes only be told that they will not be compatible with led or CFL.

As mentioned before CFL bulbs contain mercury, may be a minute quantity nevertheless the consummation of mercury has skyrocket in China since the introduction of these bulbs.

Cheeble

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

....come up with a decent alternative and subsidise the change over....

By "subsidise" do you mean you want every other EU taxpayer to pay for your brother's lightbulbs?

Cheeble-eers

Run_to_da_hills

Cheeble wrote: »

By "subsidise" do you mean you want every other EU taxpayer to pay for your brother's lightbulbs?

Cheeble-eers

Blod*dy right, if someone spends e1500 installing a state of the art halogen spotlight system in an apartment and then told that the system is not compatible with future LED bulbs they would want to have some sort of compensation. These laws should not be made without consideration for the consequences.

CJhaughey

But the more interesting question is WHY are these laws being made? Is it to protect the environment by stopping the use of "inefficient" halogen lamps or is it to stimulate moribund industries like Philips that have CFL bulbs produced in China into profit?
What is the manufacturing cost of a CFL vs a Incandescent bulb? What are the recycling possibilities for a CFL bulb?
It costs 3 euro just to walk into the local waste recycling facility, do you think people are going to be bothered recycling these bulbs properly or will they just toss them into the mixed waste and leave it at that?
IF these new CFL bulbs are so efficient how come people don't buy them?
Surely if they work as well as they say, it must be a no brainer to use them?
Possibly they don't last as long as a regular bulb, or are not available as a rough service type or they simply don't give the correct light intensity/colour temp that halogens do?
Lots of questions and very few answers.

Run_to_da_hills

I would be more concerned about the health and safety aspect. Kids have a tendancy to horse play, if one of these bulbs smashes and cuts a child it could leave deadly traces of mercury exposed to skin

Riamfada

These energy saving lights give my house the feel of a wartime bagdad cafe at night. Reminds me of holidays in the Costa Del Sol

Run_to_da_hills

Grimes wrote: »

These energy saving lights give my house the feel of a wartime bagdad cafe at night. Reminds me of holidays in the Costa Del Sol

The remind me of the old 6 volt headlamps on a VW Beetle

When these lamps get rolled out Specsavers will be doing a booming trade.

djpbarry

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would be more concerned about the health and safety aspect.

From the article you have linked to:

Making the bulbs requires workers to handle mercury…

That’s a very misleading statement – it implies that the workers are handling mercury with their bare hands, which would obviously be incredibly stupid.

If there are so many factory workers in China being hospitalised with mercury poisoning, it suggests to me that the factories in question have extremely poor health and safety practices. I’ve been working with a highly toxic organomercury compound for almost four years now and I’ve yet to be hospitalised.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Kids have a tendancy to horse play, if one of these bulbs smashes and cuts a child it could leave deadly traces of mercury exposed to skin

Personally, I’d be more concerned about the kid sustaining a nasty cut than I would them succumbing to mercury poisoning.

I’m not sure what that image contributes to the discussion?

Run_to_da_hills

djpbarry wrote: »

From the article you have linked to:
That’s a very misleading statement – it implies that the workers are handling mercury with their bare hands, which would obviously be incredibly stupid.

Mercury will linger in an environment for decades just like it builds up in the body. Bulbs will be dropped, smashed, crushed scrapped etc during manufacture process. All it takes is one forklift to drop a pallet of them and this could happen in any retail outlet or destributer across the EU.

For anyone working in the Irish Lighthouse service the Fastnet Rock is a lethal station to work on because the lamp has been revolving on a bed of mercury for over a century, the rock is toxic from top to bottom.

djpbarry wrote: »

If there are so many factory workers in China being hospitalized with mercury poisoning, it suggests to me that the factories in question have extremely poor health and safety practices. I’ve been working with a highly toxic organomercury compound for almost four years now and I’ve yet to be hospitalized.?

I have also worked in lethal chemical factories in this country and they are very stict with PPE etc however I don't think China would have the same H&S regulations as the western world, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if children are putting these bulbs together.

Mercury poisoning dose not happen quick, it lingers about and builds up in the body over a long period of time. Just like asbestos poisoning It is not something that happens in a few weeks.

djpbarry wrote: »

Personally, I’d be more concerned about the kid sustaining a nasty cut than I would them succumbing to mercury poisoning.

I would be even more concerned about a kid having a cut contaminated with the contents of one of these bulbs.

djpbarry wrote: »

I’m not sure what that image contributes to the discussion?

It portrays the fact that there is a risk element attached to this type of bulb.

robtri

well personally I don't let kids play with light bulbs, I think thats very irresponsible and dumb.....

Rtdh.... how much mercury is contained in a CFL ? when broken how much is released into the enviroment as a gas? considering mercury based bulbs have been with us a while now... how many deaths have resulted from them breaking in the home???
and surely the risk of some mercury escaping in the event of an accident is more appealling than the extra toxic chemicals been pumped into the air to supply electricity to your brothers spot lights???

djpbarry

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Mercury will linger in an environment for decades just like it builds up in the body. Bulbs will be dropped, smashed, crushed scrapped etc during manufacture process. All it takes is one forklift to drop a pallet of them and this could happen in any retail outlet or destributer across the EU.

As robtri has already said, fluorescent bulbs aren’t exactly a new technology – they’ve been around (in the commercial sense) since the 1930’s. In the last 70 years, how many people have been hospitalised as a result of mercury poisoning following accidents with fluorescent lamps?

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I have also worked in lethal chemical factories in this country and they are very stict with PPE etc however I don't think China would have the same H&S regulations as the western world...

Precisely my point. There are any number of substances used in manufacturing processes that are toxic to humans, but if the appropriate precautions are taken, then no harm should come to anyone. The problem here is not the lamp’s design, but rather the apparently very poor health and safety record of the factories where the lamps are being manufactured.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Mercury poisoning dose not happen quick, it lingers about and builds up in the body over a long period of time. Just like asbestos poisoning It is not something that happens in a few weeks.

Indeed, so unless a kid’s got a penchant for smashing light-bulbs on a regular basis, I don’t think there’s anything to be concerned about.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would be even more concerned about a kid having a cut contaminated with the contents of one of these bulbs.

How many kids in this country are hospitalised with light-bulb related injuries every year?

Run_to_da_hills

djpbarry wrote: »

As robtri has already said, fluorescent bulbs aren’t exactly a new technology – they’ve been around (in the commercial sense) since the 1930’s. In the last 70 years, how many people have been hospitalized as a result of mercury poisoning following accidents with fluorescent lamps?

They were normally confined to industrial, commercial, hospitals and educational facilities. They would also be covered with a protective covers and in most cases replaced by a qualified electrians hence the accident rate being a lot lower. Not that many houses used long florecent bulbs.

However these "compact" fluorescent bulbs are less protected when fitted in the domestic house. The can be knocked over and smashed just like normal bulbs. I have one in my room with the shade off it because the quality of light is third world and I am sure there many others that would do the same.

djpbarry wrote: »

Precisely my point. There are any number of substances used in manufacturing processes that are toxic to humans, but if the appropriate precautions are taken, then no harm should come to anyone. The problem here is not the lamp’s design, but rather the apparently very poor health and safety record of the factories where the lamps are being manufactured.
Indeed, so unless a kid’s got a penchant for smashing light-bulbs on a regular basis, I don’t think there’s anything to be concerned about.
How many kids in this country are hospitalized with light-bulb related injuries every year?

We don't know yet. kids will also get kicks out of smashing discarded CFL bulbs just as they do with incandescent bulbs, not exactly the best thing for the environment. Maybe the EU / Government should consider a core charge on returning your old CFL bulb to help stop this. Something similar works well with super market trolleys.

djpbarry

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

djpbarry wrote: »

How many kids in this country are hospitalised with light-bulb related injuries every year?

We don't know yet.

I was referring to conventional incandescent bulbs. How many children are seriously injured in this country every year as a result of accidents involving conventional bulbs? Zero? One? What is the nature of these injuries? How are these accidents likely to be exacerbated by the replacement of incandescent bulbs with CFL’s?

I think you’re seriously overstating the risk associated with CFL’s. As I said earlier, conventional tubular fluorescent lamps have been in use since the 1930’s (as have other products such as thermometers, which contain far more mercury than modern CFL’s) and yet incidents of mercury poisoning are extremely rare.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Maybe the EU / Government should consider a core charge on returning your old CFL bulb to help stop this.

As far as I’m aware, CFL’s are already covered by the SI 340 Waste Management Regulations (2005). Retailers who stock CFL’s are required by law to assist consumers with the disposal of old CFL’s, or such is my understanding. The same is also true of other forms of hazardous electrical/electronic waste, such as batteries, for example.

maniac101

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Blod*dy right, if someone spends e1500 installing a state of the art halogen spotlight system in an apartment and then told that the system is not compatible with future LED bulbs they would want to have some sort of compensation. These laws should not be made without consideration for the consequences.

Your brother should take it up with the people who supplied the fittings. Irish lighting retailers have been grossly irresponsible in recent years selling expensive luminaires that aren't future-compatible to an unsuspecting public. I mentioned the impending legislation to a retailer a couple of years ago when I was looking for bathroom light fittings. He said he was confident that there would never be a ban. His priority was to make the sale and to hell with the consequences. I suppose that's what happens in an economy that relies on us buying and selling expensive cr*p that we don't need.

IT Loser

Fluorescent tubing.........they never were beaten. I suppose they will be next to be banned.

Run_to_da_hills

WARNING: the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (UK) has issued the following advice on what to do if a low energy bulb breaks .

1 . Evacuate the room for at least 15 minutes taking care not to stand on any of the shreds of glass littering the floor :eek:
2 . Do not us e a vacuum cleaner to clear up the mess as the machine sucking action could spread the toxic Mercury droplets
around the house :eek:
3 . Put on rubber gloves and s weep the debris into a dustpan
4. Place the remains in a plastic bag and seal it
5. Do not put the bag in a normal household dustbin :eek:
6. Instead place it in a municipal recycling bin for batteries which also contain Mercury or bring it to a Council dump were it can be
disposed safely
7. Try not inhale the dust from the bulb (wear a mask in other words )

Don' t get me wrong, but this procedure sounds more like a dangerous chemical spill in a processing facility, rather than an
environment friendly light bulb.

Soverign Independant page 10 explains all about the hidden dangers of Mercury CFL bulbs.

robtri

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

WARNING: the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (UK) has issued the following advice on what to do if a low energy bulb breaks .

1 . Evacuate the room for at least 15 minutes taking care not to stand on any of the shreds of glass littering the floor :eek:
2 . Do not us e a vacuum cleaner to clear up the mess as the machine sucking action could spread the toxic Mercury droplets
around the house :eek:
3 . Put on rubber gloves and s weep the debris into a dustpan
4. Place the remains in a plastic bag and seal it
5. Do not put the bag in a normal household dustbin :eek:
6. Instead place it in a municipal recycling bin for batteries which also contain Mercury or bring it to a Council dump were it can be
disposed safely
7. Try not inhale the dust from the bulb (wear a mask in other words )

Don' t get me wrong, but this procedure sounds more like a dangerous chemical spill in a processing facility, rather than an
environment friendly light bulb.

Soverign Independant page 10 explains all about the hidden dangers of Mercury CFL bulbs.

ohhhhmy RTDH you are right...all those shocked faces convinced me...

Virtually all H&S proceedures are over kill... so not too suprised...

YOU still haven't answered the question.... HOW many deaths have been caused by CFL???????

Also what type of halogen bulbs does your brother use???? that are about to be banned

Soverign indepndant.... come back when you have a recognised source..

mickoneill30

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The EU is to ban these small spot lights and downlighter bulbs next year. My Brother just had these fitted throughout the house. There is no proper alternative for them as CFL will not match anything like the power off halogen bulbs.

Get your brother to buy a few spare bulbs. How long does a bulb last? I'd say even getting enough for 20 - 30 years wouldn't be a huge cost. I doubt the EU is going to come break down his door to get him to remove them.

probe

Some years ago I was working in the city of London. The company moved from an office building with clear glass windows and incandescent lights to a “modern, low energy building” with tinted windows and energy saving lights.

I noticed that I was not working as well in the new building – I was about 40% less productive – despite having a corner office with floor to ceiling windows facing south and west. I consulted a specialist and he advised me to install low voltage halogen lighting. The light in a room fitted with “energy efficient” (misnomer) glass and lighting does not provide the full spectrum of light needed by the body and brain to function efficiently. The body can’t process vitamin D and certain enzymes among other things in these reduced spectrum light environments. Who knows what the long term consequences are for personal health.

Exposure to sunshine in Ireland and Britain is limited due to the high incidence of cloud cover. Any transition to energy efficiency has to be managed taking into account the health consequences, especially in terms of lighting spaces where people spend many hours every day. The building design emphasis should be on the increased use of natural light coming through the roof with a mechanism to spread it around the building.

I have a mixture of low voltage halogen and compatible LED lights in my apartment, with clear triple glazed windows ceiling to floor with very little thermal energy transmission. The combination produces good colour rendering, delivers a wide spectrum of light, and consumes about 50% of the electricity of a halogen only solution. The LEDs cost more than similar halogen lamps in the supermarket – however the cost is falling, the light output is increasing, and they last forever.

There is a stock of halogen lamps in my cellar to do me for decades. They don’t take up much space to store. If any EU-bot tries to confiscate them, I won’t be responsible for my actions....

robtri

personally I would still like to know what exact type of bulbs his brothers has... cause as far as I am aware you can get LED or CFL bulbs to repalce virtually all of the halogen type....

and an answer on the number os deaths attributed to CFL