Latest Panasonic TV's and Irish DTT

ei9go

Anyone considering buying an Irish specification Panasonic TV needs to read this carefully. I have tried to be clear but if there is anything you think needs clarification, feel free to post and I will reply.

Panasonic do a range of Plasma TV's with a specific Irish model. This is designated by an L at the end of the model number. e.g TX-P42S10L.

When you switch one on the first time, you choose language and then country.

The country menu looks exactly the same as the European model sold by the likes of Pixmania other than that you can choose Ireland.

Auto setup runs but strangely only auto tunes Analogue stations and then exits.

You have to go into the setup menu to get the DVB-T setup to run.

It tunes in RTE DTT, no problem.

But then press the guide button and all you get is a Channel List, no EPG!!!

Read instruction book---"Depending on the country you select, TV Guide may not be supported, in this case Channel list will appear"

So to get the guide to work, you need to start again, thats the shipping condition option in the menu.

This time, select France as your country.

DVB-T finds channels, then exit. There is no point going through the analogue setup as it will not find Irish analogue channels with France selected.

The EPG will now work.

Go into analogue tuning menu. Change sound spacing from "F" to "SC2"

Then manually tune in and store the four channels. It very easy to do.

Teletext: Does not receive the MHEG5 text broadcast on RTE1 &2. Does receive old style text.

The only part of these TV's that has an Irish specification is that Ireland is included in the country list.

Panasonic, this is a pathetic effort at an Irish spec TV.

Save money and buy a European specification model and follow my instructions for tuning for France.

emaherx

Surely if you choose UK as country all channels will tune automaticaly both analouge and digital with full EPG and MHEG-5 teletext.

This is the way it works for my Samsung. Freeview in UK uses same MHEG-5 as Irish DTT and TV will still use MPEG4 decoder as it is backwards compatible with UK Freeview. Also UK UHF Analouge is same spec as Irish (or close enough). Not sure about VHF as I receive all irish channels through VHF.

GerardKeating

ei9go wrote: »

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But then press the guide button and all you get is a Channel List, no EPG!!!
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Panasonic, this is a pathetic effort at an Irish spec TV.
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But the Irish DTT service is not up and running yet, and the EPG is sometimes off and other posters have reported that RTE have in the past been slightly non-standard with how the test service is configured.

Might not be all Panny's fault...

ei9go

Good Point but unfortunately there is no UK option in the country list.

They produce yet another model for then UK without the vhf tuner.

HappyHarry

ei9go

I had the same experience with my 32G10L.
It's not so bad when you figure it out to use France to get the EPG and how to manually tune the Analogue, my biggest gripe is no MHEG5 support.:mad:

It's a pricey enough set, this years model and supposed to be designed for irish DTT so how come MHEG5 is left out!!

I guess we can only hope that they release a Firmware update that fixes these issues when irish DTT launches.

Bueatiful TV. But will be my last Panasonic if they don't get with the program.

ei9go

Thanks for that happy Harry.

The point I was trying to make was that it really is not good enough to supposedly make a special model for the Irish market and all they did was add an Ireland box to the auto setup.

I presumed that their would be MHEG5 support as RTE is transmitting it.

emaherx

obviously their idea of an Irish TV is one with a VHF and UHF analouge tuner.
They should have a custom setup as well as regional setups.
How hard would it be to have a setting MHEG-5 on/off?

samaga

Hi I'm about to buy a panasonic tv model TXP42S10E through Komplett.ie. As this is a european model , I phoned panasonic to make sure the tv will work in Ireland and they said it wouldn't! Seems from what I read here that it will - help please, I'm confused as to whether to buy it or not! ps do european models have an english menu option?

Aepos

Hi Panasonic seem to have a don't give a a toss attitude to the Irish market.

If you look here :-

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055542668

You will see ongoing issues with their products.

They have responded with great negativity to the queries and suggestions set out by many very experienced people within this forum.

I fully realise that the Irish DVB system is still on a "trial footing" but by dismissing out of hand such suggestions for fixes to their products does nothing for the what has been heretofore the good name of the so called premium brand of Panasonic.

It is interesting also that all of the replies coming from the company pertaining to the many problems stated in these pages come from the UK based facility.

Rant over....

Ae

mrdtv

Aepos wrote: »

Hi Panasonic seem to have a don't give a a toss attitude to the Irish market.

If you look here :-

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055542668

You will see ongoing issues with their products.

They have responded with great negativity to the queries and suggestions set out by many very experienced people within this forum.

I fully realise that the Irish DVB system is still on a "trial footing" but by dismissing out of hand such suggestions for fixes to their products does nothing for the what has been heretofore the good name of the so called premium brand of Panasonic.

It is interesting also that all of the replies coming from the company pertaining to the many problems stated in these pages come from the UK based facility.

Rant over....

Ae

I don't agree. As Watty says there is no operational Irish DTT system. Vendors cannot be expected to commit to supporting DTT in Ireland until a) RTE, BCI and the Government commit to roll-out and b) there is commercial certainty for vendors. In the current economic climate this is a minimum requirement.

The only certainties are:

a) Irish terrestrial TV services are currently analogue;

b) Freesat is available throughout ROI.

c) Freeview is available in overspill areas;

d) Freeview HD, launching soon, will be BACKWARDS compatible with MPEG4 DVB-T1, as proposed for use in Ireland.

e) Irish terrestrial services are 'must-carry' on cable and 'must-offer' on Sky.

f) There is no clear, consistent, coherent and concise roadmap for operational DTT in Ireland.

Therefore no international vendor will commit to supporting Irish DTT until the uncertainty is resolved.

slegs

mrdtv wrote: »

I don't agree. As Watty says there is no operational Irish DTT system. Vendors cannot be expected to commit to supporting DTT in Ireland until a) RTE, BCI and the Government commit to roll-out and b) there is commercial certainty for vendors. In the current economic climate this is a minimum requirement.

The only certainties are:

a) Irish terrestrial TV services are currently analogue;

b) Freesat is available throughout ROI.

c) Freeview is available in overspill areas;

d) Freeview HD, launching soon, will be BACKWARDS compatible with MPEG4 DVB-T1, as proposed for use in Ireland.

e) Irish terrestrial services are 'must-carry' on cable and 'must-offer' on Sky.

f) There is no clear, consistent, coherent and concise roadmap for operational DTT in Ireland.

Therefore no international vendor will commit to supporting Irish DTT until the uncertainty is resolved.

There is no operational system but there is a published final specification for more than 9 months. Its not like there is no formal information published. Panasonic are ignoring this information. As their TV's could very easily comply with the specification with a little effort it is very difficult to see why they ignore it bar gross incompetence from the team responsible for the Irish market.

RTENL FTA DTT Minimum Receiver Requirements

mrdtv

slegs wrote: »

There is no operational system but there is a published final specification for more than 9 months. Its not like there is no formal information published. Panasonic are ignoring this information. As their TV's could very easily comply with the specification with a little effort it is very difficult to see why they ignore it bar gross incompetence from the team responsible for the Irish market.

RTENL FTA DTT Minimum Receiver Requirements

There is NO MARKET. There are NO operational Irish DTT services.

Why should they bother to make the investment? As Watty always says there is no start date and no commitment. If I were in their shoes I would want absolute commercial, regulatory and tecnical certainty. They won't do that and the T2 thing hangs like a very large cloud over them.

maxg

Which investment? For instance LG is simply following the dvb specs and the LF7700 is working out of the box for irish DTT, independently which service type is in use.

slegs

mrdtv wrote: »

There is NO MARKET. There are NO operational Irish DTT services.

Why should they bother to make the investment? As Watty always says there is no start date and no commitment. If I were in their shoes I would want absolute commercial, regulatory and tecnical certainty. They won't do that and the T2 thing hangs like a very large cloud over them.

It is easier to follow the spec than to avoid it. It is only software, their hardware already supports the spec. The RTE spec is nothing unusual. Panasonic are just being sloppy by not addressing the issues they have.

You are reading way too much into it if you think they are somehow intentionally waiting.

MPEG4/DVB-T with same MHEG5 as UK. Its not rocket science.

Also, the fact that people want to buy their MPEG4 TV in Ireland means there is a MARKET whether you dictate it or not.

Sony, LG, Samsung, Toshiba MPEG4 TV's all working fine with current tests no matter what flag is used.

mrdtv

slegs wrote: »

It is easier to follow the spec than to avoid it. It is only software, their hardware already supports the spec. The RTE spec is nothing unusual. Panasonic are just being sloppy by not addressing the issues they have.

You are reading way too much into it if you think they are somehow intentionally waiting.

MPEG4/DVB-T with same MHEG5 as UK. Its not rocket science.

Also, the fact that people want to buy their MPEG4 TV in Ireland means there is a MARKET whether you dictate it or not.

Sony, LG, Samsung, Toshiba MPEG4 TV's all working fine with current tests no matter what flag is used.

This is an enthusiasts board! Panasonic won't bother to fix it until there is an ROI DTT market. Incidentally I have never liked Panasonics for other software reasons. The enthusiast should source from another vendor.

slegs

mrdtv wrote: »

This is an enthusiasts board! Panasonic won't bother to fix it until there is an ROI DTT market. Incidentally I have never liked Panasonics for other software reasons. The enthusiast should source from another vendor.

You may be correct but Panasonic is a huge company and there is one person who is responsible for the Irish market. He is not doing his job currently as they are losing potential sales by not having their freesat TV range compatible with Irish DTT as specified now. Note this would just make the TV compatible with the DVB spec - its not like Irish DTT is specifying anything off standard.

This is not intentional as you are indicating in some form of wait and see. They are just ignoring the issue which is the bit i don't understand.

maxg

mrdtv wrote: »

This is an enthusiasts board! Panasonic won't bother to fix it until there is an ROI DTT market. Incidentally I have never liked Panasonics for other software reasons. The enthusiast should source from another vendor.

Panasonic UK is not willing to follow the dvb specs.
The Panasonic TV's for the european market with mpeg4 tuners are working out of the box for irish DTT. Disadvantage is there is no mheg5 support and you cannot choose Ireland as country.

tvman

:)Just a word in Panasonic's favour.

I have recently bought a Panasonic TX-P42G10 (UK Model)
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Products/VIERA+Flat+Screen+Televisions/NeoPDP+TVs/TX-P50G10/Overview/2121399/index.html

The manual can be viewed on line to show the tv spec etc.
It has Freesat HD, Freeview, Analogue and Other sat tuning options and picture quality is excellent even SD picture quality on Freeview and Freesat surpasses my expectations. As usual analogue isn't terrific but improves greatly if viewed in 4:3 mode.
No problem receiving RTENL tv and digital text tests when they are transmitting from Clermont Carn.
Finally it cost at the time (a month ago) €400 less in N.I. than the model available in the R.O.I. (with no Freesat and not quite sure if it had Freeview either)

maxg

If RTE is changing back to service type 0x16 the channel scan is nomore working for irish DTT at your UK device.

Mike 1972

Why on earth in this day and age do manufacturers still produce country specific models (made all the more farcical by country options and multistandard tuning)

Surely the miniscule saving from leaving out a VHF tuner is more than outweighed by the costs of having a seperate UK model (not to mention alienating some cable viewers and those in parts of NI and CI)

RE: Enniskillen and Ch 53 it is used by both Claremont (Vertical) and Truskmore (Horizontal) but I understand that parts of Eniskillen get their RTE from Cairnhill

cnocbui

maxg wrote: »

If RTE is changing back to service type 0x16 the channel scan is nomore working for irish DTT at your UK device.

It is still a better option than the European or 'Irish' spec sets IMO. He can save his channel data to an SD card and then there is a good chance he will be able to keep the channels if the service type is changed.

tvman

Hi Again,

Been looking through the various posts with regard to RTENL changing to 0x16 setting.
The Panny TX-P42G10 I purchased was storing all the Irish DTT Channels up to a couple of days ago (with various off/on air breaks since I got the tv.
All the posts are referring to older Panny models does anyone know if the current absence of channels could be due to Clermont Carn changing to 0x16 setting or is the Tx just not transmitting the tv channels at the moment?

Thanks for any information.

STB

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but its not JUST the old series BUT the NEW series too (as Maxg has advised). Your TV will now ignore the TV stations broadcast as it doesnt understand what they are (although IT CAN decode and display them).

Again this is because Panasonic have apparently developed a very special short cut version of the DVB standard (with only SOME service types defined) for the UK and refuse to say as much.

The ONLY Freesat/Freeview/Irish DTT LCD Combo's that actually work with the full service types defined in the firmware (plus MHEG5 1.06) are the LG LF7700 series, as far as I know.

And by the way the Irish spec has been in the open and with the retailers and manufacturers for some time now. It is defined. You do not develop a product overnight but you can adapt it from similar technology in say France.

MrDTV, do not kid yourself the only reason that products are not freely available is because of greedy retailers selling old warehoused stock from the UK with redundant technology NOT because of lack of a service. Its been on over a year as part of enginneering TESTS. You do not need to be an enthuasiast or anorak to connect an aerial to the right TV.

Mike 1972

STB wrote: »

Again this is because Panasonic have apparently developed a very special short cut version of the DVB standard (with only SOME service types defined) for the UK and refuse to say as much.

Err Surely there are legal issues If these sets badged "DVB" when sold ? (Then again the same could be said about $ky digiboxes)
.

STB wrote: »

the only reason that products are not freely available is because of greedy retailers selling old warehoused stock from the UK with redundant technology.

Are UK distributors that stupid as to still have large numbers of these things warehoused with the UK digital switchover well publicised for a long time now ?

mrdtv

STB wrote: »

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but its not JUST the old series BUT the NEW series too (as Maxg has advised). Your TV will now ignore the TV stations broadcast as it doesnt understand what they are (although IT CAN decode and display them).

Again this is because Panasonic have apparently developed a very special short cut version of the DVB standard (with only SOME service types defined) for the UK and refuse to say as much.

The ONLY Freesat/Freeview/Irish DTT LCD Combo's that actually work with the full service types defined in the firmware (plus MHEG5 1.06) are the LG LF7700 series, as far as I know.

And by the way the Irish spec has been in the open and with the retailers and manufacturers for some time now. It is defined. You do not develop a product overnight but you can adapt it from similar technology in say France.

MrDTV, do not kid yourself the only reason that products are not freely available is because of greedy retailers selling old warehoused stock from the UK with redundant technology NOT because of lack of a service. Its been on over a year as part of enginneering TESTS. You do not need to be an enthuasiast or anorak to connect an aerial to the right TV.

You have very poor listening skills. I said on another thread that I don't personally like Panasonic kit because of their software. The more important consideration remains this: When will RTE/BCI et al have the nerve to launch a fully operational 24x7x365 DTT service? Answers on a postcard please...

STB

mrdtv wrote: »

You have very poor listening skills. I said on another thread that I don't personally like Panasonic kit because of their software. The more important consideration remains this: When will RTE/BCI et al have the nerve to launch a fully operational 24x7x365 DTT service? Answers on a postcard please...

I have poor listening (?!) skills. Right so.

The piece about the panasonic kit - in this thread actually. But thats not what my answer was referring to. It was to your nonsensical post about their being no market and why retailers/manufacturers bother dont make the investment blah blah blah... - the one you were challenged on earlier in the thread.

mrdtv wrote: »

"They won't do that and the T2 thing hangs like a very large cloud over them"

The UK DVB-T2 service has yet to commence ! Infact no commercial products are available anyway and wont be til this time next year! And when it does launch it will only be 1 or 2 channels which will be mirrored by non HD anyway (and HD Sat).

We - little old Ireland (like many other countries in Europe) have adopted MPEG4 H264 DVB-T as OUR chosen broadcast format.

If you tell me where you are I will know how much it costs for my stamp

scath

mrdtv wrote: »

You have very poor listening skills. I said on another thread that I don't personally like Panasonic kit because of their software. The more important consideration remains this: When will RTE/BCI et al have the nerve to launch a fully operational 24x7x365 DTT service? Answers on a postcard please...

If you read http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055543384&page=30 you wil see that we can wish them to do so, its not about nerve, its about a sinking millions into a project, it has to have return on investment and working out the right mechanics are the issue. This is what they're working on. I think that things could move along faster if RTÉ are given the leeway to bring in Arquiva, if Arquiva are interest on a DTT network company where Arquiva fund the 3 multiplexes equipment on the RTÉ's transmitters, and assist in rollout cost and in return could charge rental themselves to Eircom/Setanta with RTÉ NL able to to likewise on its muxes. I predict if something like that happens it go 24x7x365 soon enough. I know its frustrating for us, but the model has to be right as we don't want another ITV Digital situation. Pay DTT can work if there plan b is already in place for when plan A if it doesn't work occurred. Its not monopoly money they are playing with for the DTT project in the current economic climate. And there is little more for RTÉ to get from Government.

The Philips shop off Great George's Street, guy there told me all the TVs there are MPEG4 now. Didn't ask him if they did MHEG5. Must ask next time I pass by.

bk

scath wrote: »

The Philips shop off Great George's Street, guy there told me all the TVs there are MPEG4 now. Didn't ask him if they did MHEG5. Must ask next time I pass by.

FYI The Philips shop is owned by the same guys who own Richer Sounds up in Belfast and they work closely together. So you can ask over on the Richer Sounds forum here on boards.

reslfj

STB wrote: »

The UK DVB-T2 service has yet to commence !

Yes, but it will on December 2nd 2009 from Winter Hill and its relays. And not much later from transmitters in Wales and other post-DSO regions.

STB wrote: »

Infact no commercial products are available anyway and wont be til this time next year! And when it does launch it will only be 1 or 2 channels which will be mirrored by non HD anyway (and HD Sat).

Commercial DVB-T2 products are announced from Humax and Pace for early 2010 and PVR products before the summer of 2010. Others brands are very close to announce. Products are beeing tested by DTG now or within weeks.

BBC, ITV and C4/S4C will be broadcast from December 2nd and Five will joín as the 4th HD channel in 2010 H2. That is a 'little' more than 1-2 channels -or ?

At least for those which have UK signals in their aerials, DVB-T2 will be something to think about - this year or early next year.

Lars

slegs

DVB-T2 is at least 2 years from general low price availability. That is a fact. Freeview are beginning their activities with DVB-T2. Its VERY early days.

It bears no relevance to Irish DTT which is a done deal at DVB-T/MPEG4.

reslfj

slegs wrote: »

DVB-T2 is at least 2 years from general low price availability. That is a fact.

What sources do you have to support the above quote?

I did not write anything about price. More chips are just a few month from general availability in volume.

Over 50% of UK housholds (12-15 million) will be able to receive HD via DTT before FIFA WC in ZA next summer. That's a huge market.

slegs wrote: »

It bears no relevance to Irish DTT which is a done deal at DVB-T/MPEG4.

You wrote "the UK DVB-T2 service" and I wrote "...have UK signals in their aerials..."
This and other sites have had lots of post recently about the Welsh DSO and reception of UK DTT i Ireland.

How will the non existing Irish DTT service come into these arguments ? :rolleyes:

Lars

tvman

Hello again,

Could I get back to the Panasonic Tx-P42G10 which I have. I got it mainly for the picture quality, price and built in Freesat/Freeview tuners with the ability to get Irish DTT as a bonus. I have a few questions.

What is the benefit of RTENL changing to 0x16 setting and what was the setting that allowed the tv to "catch" the Irish channels up to recently.

Could RTENL change back to the other setting.

Might Panasonic eventually provide a firmware update to sort things out (when and if the official Irish DTT starts)

Could getting access to the engineers menu allow for changing the firmware

Incidentally I have an old Panasonic Freeview STB and it still tunes the Irish DTT channels with no picture of course. The new tv doesn't even do this now!

Finally what about the Samsung tv's that are being sold at the moment with MPEG4 capability.

Thanks.

STB

tvman wrote: »

Hello again,

Could I get back to the Panasonic Tx-P42G10 which I have. I got it mainly for the picture quality, price and built in Freesat/Freeview tuners with the ability to get Irish DTT as a bonus. I have a few questions.

What is the benefit of RTENL changing to 0x16 setting and what was the setting that allowed the tv to "catch" the Irish channels up to recently.

Could RTENL change back to the other setting.

Might Panasonic eventually provide a firmware update to sort things out (when and if the official Irish DTT starts)

Could getting access to the engineers menu allow for changing the firmware

Incidentally I have an old Panasonic Freeview STB and it still tunes the Irish DTT channels with no picture of course. The new tv doesn't even do this now!

Finally what about the Samsung tv's that are being sold at the moment with MPEG4 capability.

Thanks.

Your coming at this from the wrong direction. RTE are not the problem, the spec for Ireland is clearly defined. the benefit is not to cause confusion in border/areas of overlap, i would imagine.

Common problem with the panasonic range of freesat/freeview combos (both the earlier range and yours) is that the service list is not complete as set down in DVB standard. This means they havent followed it.

Do not go near the engineers menu unless you know what you are doing. It wont allow you edit the firmware anyway. You may be able to patch it with the hotel.pwd solution. First off you will have to find someone in your mux area that has the right settings saved.

I'd tackle panasonic first before putting myself in a position of voiding the warranty.

LG LF7700 range are the only range that I knnow of that do all three without problems as the service types have been defined and no shortcuts have been taken.

STB

reslfj wrote: »

What sources do you have to support the above quote?

I did not write anything about price. More chips are just a few month from general availability in volume.

Over 50% of UK housholds (12-15 million) will be able to receive HD via DTT before FIFA WC in ZA next summer. That's a huge market.

Hi Lars and welcome to your favourite subject.:)

DVB-T2 products will not be available until this time next year. And even then they will not be available "commercially" so. Pricewise they will not be as competitive as their MPEG2 friends that are warehoused all over the UK. Will everyone in the UK be running out to buy this technology for 2/3/4 HD channels. Eh no is the answer. Especially when these stations will continue to be offered and broadcast terrestrially in SD in parallel (and in HD on FREESAT) for many years to come. Its a luxury that many dont see the benefit of in current recessionary times! Add to that the current digital switchover and ASO that the UK are in the middle of and you know that it will be put on the backburner in order NOT to cause any further confusion.

That is the stark reality of the situation. BTW That 50%!!! wont be watching HD on DVB-T2 - for the few people that have HD TVs they will be watching it on FREESAT HD.

reslfj wrote: »

You wrote "the UK DVB-T2 service" and I wrote "...have UK signals in their aerials..."
This and other sites have had lots of post recently about the Welsh DSO and reception of UK DTT i Ireland.

How will the non existing Irish DTT service come into these arguments ? :rolleyes:

Lars

Irish DTT is on and has been for over a year under the guise of engineering tests as the rollout commenced. That a recession kicked in was unfortunate. It certainly threw a spanner in the works from the point pf view of gaining a commercial partner for RTE NL.

RTE have say 75% coverage at present, that is obviously not a full service and is not being described as such. The Public Service Mux is still on however 1 year later and RTE are mandated to provide it!

Which is more than can be said for DVB-T2 which is not on, seeks to serve a few unnecessary HD stations and has NO effect for the greater good of the Rep of Ireland as we have adopted OUR own standard in MPEG4 H264 DVB-T.

maxg

tvman wrote: »

Hello again,

Could I get back to the Panasonic Tx-P42G10 which I have. I got it mainly for the picture quality, price and built in Freesat/Freeview tuners with the ability to get Irish DTT as a bonus. I have a few questions.

.

There is a software update to version 1.612 available for the G10B series via sd card.
Maybe that update solve your problems, maybe not.
Its worth a try.

reslfj

STB wrote: »

DVB-T2 products will not be available until this time next year. And even then they will not be available "commercially" so.

That is the stark reality of the situation.

This is your opinion, but I asked for the sources behind this.

The information I have indicates a far more speedy roll-out.

Let me just quote an ANGA pressrelease from September 17 about the cable standard DVB-C2, which shows how deeply Sony is involved in all the 2nd generation standards.

"Serge Foucher, Executive Vice President Sony Europe, said: “Being a key contributor to the development of the DVB-C2 standard, we hope that the introduction of this technology to the cable networks will deliver a significant increase in capacity, which will be required for the distribution of HD programs. Furthermore, this new cable transmission technology will be well aligned with existing 2nd generation standards such as DVB-T2 and DVB-S2.” "

And again - I wrote about viewers with access to UK (Welsh) post-DSO DTT signals.

Lars

mrdtv

reslfj wrote: »

This is your opinion, but I asked for the sources behind this.

The information I have indicates a far more speedy roll-out.

Let me just quote an ANGA pressrelease from September 17 about the cable standard DVB-C2, which shows how deeply Sony is involved in all the 2nd generation standards.

"Serge Foucher, Executive Vice President Sony Europe, said: “Being a key contributor to the development of the DVB-C2 standard, we hope that the introduction of this technology to the cable networks will deliver a significant increase in capacity, which will be required for the distribution of HD programs. Furthermore, this new cable transmission technology will be well aligned with existing 2nd generation standards such as DVB-T2 and DVB-S2.” "

And again - I wrote about viewers with access to UK (Welsh) post-DSO DTT signals.

Lars

Lars.

I don't often agree with you because you are a tad too combative , hectoring and lecturing towards others (perhaps its your youth,cultural background etc, he said with a wry and knowing smile).

However, in this instance, I tend to agree with you and NOT with STB who takes himself too seriously, just like you also do, and whose opinion can ALSO be safely discounted.

Here are the facts:

a) There is NO operational Irish DTT service. Send an email to Cathal Goan and Anne O Connor at RTE to ask them when its coming, can they confirm the launch date, and ask whether there is a clear commitment to support current experimental receivers with software updates. This is so like the 1959-1963 period in Irish TV.

b) The Freeview MPEG2 service is overspilling into Ireland and this will increase in the next five years. This is the low cost solution for overspill viewers. It will be adopted as its a no-brainer.

c) UK and Italy are opposed to mandating MPEG4 DVB-T1 in DTT boxes. See the front page of New Media Markets, September 18 2009, Volume 27, Number 33. I will post the link to this in a few minutes. It makes VERY interesting reading.

d) ROI is a market of 3 million TV sets. Its nearest neighbour, UK is a market of 60 million TV sets.As Bill Clinton said : 'Its the economy, stupid!'

e) UK subsidiaries are moving towards DVB-T2/DVB-S2 combo boxes: the perfect solution in Ireland:

a) Freeview DTT overspill

b) Irish DTT MPEG4, should that launch

c) Freeview HD

d) Freesat.

reslfj

mrdtv wrote: »

However, in this instance, I tend to agree with you and NOT with STB

Here are the facts:

c) UK and Italy are opposed to mandating MPEG4 DVB-T1 in DTT boxes. See the front page of New Media Markets, September 18 2009, Volume 27, Number 33. I will post the link to this in a few minutes. It makes VERY interesting reading.

Responses to EU Digital Dividend consultation.

mrdtv wrote: »

d) ROI is a market of 3 million TV sets. Its nearest neighbour, UK is a market of 60 million TV sets.As Bill Clinton said : 'Its the economy, stupid!'

e) UK subsidiaries are moving towards DVB-T2/DVB-S2 combo boxes: the perfect solution in Ireland:

It sure is the economy - now more than ever. But it is not the economy of individual early adapters, but the economy looking forward for the broadcasters and for new DTT viewers in need of a new STB/IDTV.

Even DVB-T2/DVB-C2/DVB-S2 is a likely option.
DVB-C2 is expected to be in 'production' silicon by May next year. and STB's by September (IFA-Berlin / IBC10)

mrdtv wrote: »

d) Freesat.

Freesat is not a ROI service and it can only be received as 'overspill'. It may not work in all of ROI when the next '2D' satillite is put into operation. You and I can watch 'overspill', but an independent nation must have an agreement and no TV broadcast is not an option.

I have not traveled much in Ireland, but I have been in several locations in Wales where Freesat is below the next hill.

Lars

slegs

Its a pointless argument as DVB-T2 is a future technology not a now technology. The UK can afford to go with DVB-T2 for HD as they have an existing service at the moment. They will expect very low takeup of the Freeview HD service in the short term up to 2 years.

Ireland on the other hand needs to rollout now (however late they are) with no exisiting service. Choosing DVB-T2 means there would be even less equipment available for consumers to purchase than the current DVB-T/MPEG4 option. I have not seen a single STB or TV on the market only announcements of a Humax box for the trial rollout that will happen in one region in the UK at the end of the year.

Non runner and a ridiculous argument as the spec is already decided.

tvman

There is a software update to version 1.612 available for the G10B series via sd card.
Maybe that update solve your problems, maybe not.
Its worth a try.

Thanks for the replies,

Basically you are saying that the tv hasn't got the full software installed and when RTENL change their "settings" the tv cannot "see" the channels.
(Maybe they will change back to the previous settings which gave me the channels for the past month)

If I wanted to, where could I get that software update to version 1.612 - is it from another Panasonic G10B owner?

Thanks again.

byte

Please stop with the DVB-T2 debate. It's not happening here, and is irrelevant. Besides, this is supposedly about Panny TV's

maxg

tvman wrote: »

If I wanted to, where could I get that software update to version 1.612 - is it from another Panasonic G10B owner?

Ask Panasonic UK for a sd card with the update or prepare your own sd card. Download from here:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-televisions/1078415-g10-firmware-1-612-uk-only.html

Mark#1

Aren't we very nearly, if not already, at the point where a TV is simply a display device?

Specially when most (all?) TVs on sale now are either HD Ready or Full HD, and most users (?) will have some sort of external tuner (Sky/NTL/Freesat/DTT, as well as DVD/BD players, games consoles, etc.).

If we changed our perception of what role a TV plays in our AV set-up, then we wouldn't need to get so caught up on what tuners are/aren't built into the TVs.

FWIW, my TH50PZ80 is a spectacular set. For now, the only HD content I have are those channels on Freesat, but when I watch them, I'm honestly almost speechless. Freesat SD content is brilliant, and even Irish analog terrestrial is pretty good too, as are upscaled DVDs.

My Pan TV has amazing picture quality, IMO. Sound isn't good, but I knew it wouldn't be, so I have an AV amp/speaker set up too, like many users.

I look at my Pan TV as an excellent display device, ready to display whatever I connect to it. When a DTT PVR comes out, or when I learn that PS3/PlayTV provides full DTT PVR functionality, that'll be my Irish terrestrial TV tuner. What's in the TV doesn't matter.

Of course, in the context of Irish DTT and its relevance to/relationship with the UK/European market, that just moves the discussion out of the TV and into the STBs, if you follow me, but IMO that's where the discussion belongs.


Mark

bk

Mark, I think what is most annoying is that the Panny's have all the hardware required to show Irish DTT, the only reason it can't seems to be a simple software bug.

The fact that Panny wouldn't fix it shows a great deal of laziness on Panny's part.

Sponge Bob

I think a lot of manufacturers were waiting for the DVB-T2 Patent Pool to be sorted out, and it finally was about 4 weeks ago

http://www.sisvel.com/english/news/sisvelevents/presspatpooldvbt2

I cannot see any TV costing over €700-800 not having DVB-T2 by this time next year and at the €499 price point by 2011 .

In other words DVB-T development is frozen and any bug fixes will make it into DVB-T2 gear or not at all from now on !

mrdtv

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I think a lot of manufacturers were waiting for the DVB-T2 Patent Pool to be sorted out, and it finally was about 4 weeks ago

http://www.sisvel.com/english/news/sisvelevents/presspatpooldvbt2

I cannot see any TV costing over €700-800 not having DVB-T2 by this time next year and at the €499 price point by 2011 .

In other words DVB-T development is frozen and any bug fixes will make it into DVB-T2 gear or not at all from now on !

You are probably right. Given the uncertainties over Irish DTT, the economy, and the fact that Panasonic were showcasing DVB-T2 at IBC means that software development on T1 is probably frozen. Like other CE vendors they are feeling the pinch and any s/w development has to be cost justified.

tvman

Thanks for the reply Maxg,

I did contact Panasonic UK, and I am sure at this stage you will all be very familiar with the reply I received.
Could I just verify one thing before I reply to Panasonic, when I got the tv (19th August) I enjoyed DVB-T RTE for weeks, then it disappeared. Was RTE broadcasting using MPEG4 for that period or not. If it was Panasonic don't seem to know the spec of their own products!

Regards,

Quote:

Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.

In response, I would explain that unfortunately our UK models do not include support for DVB-T MPEG 4 broadcasts. Regrettably, there will be no changes in the specification of the product which will allow this in the future.

I trust that the above information will be of assistance to you. However, of course, if you should have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us by either emailing us at customer.care@panasonic.co.uk, by fax on 01344 853213, or by telephoning our Customer Care Centre on 0844 844 3852.

Kind Regards
Anthony Clarke
Dealer Support / Correspondence Team
Panasonic UK Ltd

Sponge Bob

mrdtv wrote: »

Like other CE vendors they are feeling the pinch and any s/w development has to be cost justified.

Mind you we have scammers like ****ing Argos and Maplins and Currys here selling essentially bricked mpeg2 freeview cack while they won't bring in the likes of the Sagem Picnic boxes that actually should work here .

I make a point of giving out to Maplins staff about it , never go near the other two .

maxg

tvman wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Maxg,

I did contact Panasonic UK, and I am sure at this stage you will all be very familiar with the reply I received.
Could I just verify one thing before I reply to Panasonic, when I got the tv (19th August) I enjoyed DVB-T RTE for weeks, then it disappeared. Was RTE broadcasting using MPEG4 for that period or not. If it was Panasonic don't seem to know the spec of their own products!

Regards,

Nobody in Ireland tried and reported about the software update 1.612 for the G10B range. The update was released for other purposes but there is a chance the DTT problem is also fixed. You should try that update first before you complain to Panasonic about the missing irish dtt support.

tvman

I am very reluctant to install any software updates without being sure of the results, implications for warranty etc.
This link lists updates for various Panasonic tv's, but my model isn't listed.
http://www.pasctraining.panasonic.com/firmware/Content/Plasma.ASP
I have downloaded the file SDDL.SEC referred to in a UK forum, but really am scared to use it!

maxg

The file from the UK forum is the official update from Panasonic UK for the G10B range.
If you complain about PS3 problems with 1080p50/P60 output you will get a SD card with exactly the same file on it from panasonic uk.