Exempted developement to new house.

budgetbuilder

Hi,
I have a question that in my searches on the net I haven't been able to find an answer to and was hoping someone on here would be able to help.

How old does a house need to be in order to build an exempted developement extention? All the articles/posts/leaflets I've read just mention the square meterage and that the area of any previous extentions must be subracted from the totall allowed. It doesn't mention a minimum age of the existing house.

So, if a house is built and after a year or so it's decided that more space is needed, can one then build an exempted developement extention?

Or does the house need to be a certain age before one can build on, if at all?

Any opinion on this would be most welcome.

mickdw

As far as I know, it simply cannot be carried out with the initial build.

muffler

Once the original house becomes completed, occupied and all aspects of the original planning permission have been complied with then you may consider the exempted development route.

DOCARCH

Muffler is correct but house does not necessarily need to be occupied, once it is complete (externally) you can then carry out an exmpt development.

The occupation bit (or lack of it) was as confirmed to me by a planning department.

Just beware that everyone will give a different answer as it is a bit of a grey area!

budgetbuilder

Thanks everyone!

That was just what I was hoping and it's nice to have it confirmed.:D

As it does seem to be such a grey area I guess it's probably open to a certain amount of interpretation by the different planning departments/head of planning?
I'm in Wexford by the way.

Also, I know the extention must be at the back of the house and not project to the side beyond the original building. How is that defined? Say, for example, the side of your house has a large bay window. Is the outside edge of that the true side of the house, being the full extent of developement to the side?

muffler

Its fairly safe to say that a rear building line means the line of the rear wall of the main body of the house and not an annex to the side.

There was another thread here recently on this point and if I find it I will link to it.

budgetbuilder

Thanks Muffler,

If you could find that link it would be great.

I take it then that if the proposed house is an "L" shape with the main two story part running from side to side facing the road and a single story leg coming out from the back at one side then I would be ok to build an exempted extension at the back to make a "U" shape at a later date?

Of course, this is all hypathetical as I still have to brave the planning process before I can build anything.

Therapist is on speed dial and have the nerve pills at the ready!

Mellor

DOCARCH wrote: »

Muffler is correct but house does not necessarily need to be occupied, once it is complete (externally) you can then carry out an exmpt development.

I'd disagree with the part about externally. The house has to be finished, to at least a livable standard. If all internal studs were missing for example, then the planning dept might not consider it exempt.

DOCARCH

Mellor wrote: »

I'd disagree with the part about externally. The house has to be finished, to at least a livable standard. If all internal studs were missing for example, then the planning dept might not consider it exempt.

I would have (originally) thought so too. But the opinion of DLR CC was that once the external envelope was complete, including finishes, they considered the house complete! This question was specifiaccly asked in relation to carrying out an exempt development to a new house.

Having said this, I am sure not all Councils will not have the same opinion!

Poor Uncle Tom

IMO, a house can be considered completed when it has an unqualified Certificate of Compliance.

But, SI 600 of 2001 is not clear on this fundamental point, and it should be.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html

Mellor

well, thats good for anyone in the DLR area, but until its confirmed by other PAs, and by a senior (if not the head) person in the planning dept not a clerk, I wouldn't consider it applying to others.

sydthebeat

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

IMO, a house can be considered completed when it has an unqualified Certificate of Compliance.

But, SI 600 of 2001 is not clear on this fundamental point, and it should be.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html

that would mean half the housing stock in the country, imo...

every cert we do states "as far as site works are complete"...

muffler

budgetbuilder wrote: »

Thanks Muffler,

If you could find that link it would be great.

Post #872 and onwards here. A bit of debate on the issue.

Poor Uncle Tom

sydthebeat wrote: »

that would mean half the housing stock in the country, imo...

every cert we do states "as far as site works are complete"...

Thats true, on both counts...:)

what I meant was on the basis of conditions of planning or specific reference to breeches in the Building Regulations.

budgetbuilder

Thank you all for the help and thanks for the link Muffler. It answered quite a few questions.

I guess the crux of the matter is that a lot of the law regarding exempted developement and what they consider a "finished" build seems to be so open to interpretation that it really comes down to the views your local head planner and planning department at the particular time and place you want to build. What one may view as exempt another may not.

What I'm wondering now, after reading all the posts, is if they can impose, as a condition on my planning permission, that no further developement can be done after the initial build, exempted or otherwise??

muffler

budgetbuilder wrote: »

Thank you all for the help and thanks for the link Muffler. It answered quite a few questions.

You're welcome

budgetbuilder wrote: »

I guess the crux of the matter is that a lot of the law regarding exempted developement and what they consider a "finished" build seems to be so open to interpretation that it really comes down to the views your local head planner and planning department at the particular time and place you want to build. What one may view as exempt another may not.

You're a fast learner. That is indeed the situation on occasions.

budgetbuilder wrote: »

What I'm wondering now, after reading all the posts, is if they can impose, as a condition on my planning permission, that no further developement can be done after the initial build, exempted or otherwise??

They can and do impose these conditions. I can only speak for my local PA (Donegal) when I say its not too often it happens here but from reading other posts in this forum it does happen a lot in other counties.

Mellor

budgetbuilder wrote: »

What I'm wondering now, after reading all the posts, is if they can impose, as a condition on my planning permission, that no further developement can be done after the initial build, exempted or otherwise??

I've seen this happen a few times. But, its not normally on a on a one off house that I've seen it. It's normally an estate in a sensitive area, and the council stipulates that no extensions are to be built.
Also, its normally just refers to exempt extensions, apply for planning is still an option in that case.

BnA

As other people have said it is very grey. My Engineer (who would work fairly closely with the council) told me that in our area (Clare) once you have the roof on you are ok to go ahead with the extension. Also, it is ok to go ahead with the foundations for the extension while you are doing the main foundations for the house.

Most people however would just build away. As I did myself. You would have to be very unlucky to get caught by a visit from a planner in the exact time window between the blocks being up and the roof on. Also, you would be very unlicky for your planner to be such a sod as to make an issue of it.

That said though, my Engineer did warn me that one of his clients did get caught. He drew attention to himself by having water from his site pouring out onto the road which was reported to the council. It was only when they came out to investigate this that they saw the extra size of the house.

On a similar note, I have a question myself. We built our house and used up our exempted size of an extension building on a bedroom out the back.

We also intend to build on a Sunroon to the side of the house. We decided not to do this now as we don't want to push our luck too much but we will do it in a year or two. By right, if you build on an exempted extension, how long do you have to wait before you can do it again ?

Poor Uncle Tom

BnA wrote: »

As other people have said it is very grey. My Engineer (who would work fairly closely with the council) told me that in our area (Clare) once you have the roof on you are ok to go ahead with the extension. Also, it is ok to go ahead with the foundations for the extension while you are doing the main foundations for the house.

Most people however would just build away. As I did myself. You would have to be very unlucky to get caught by a visit from a planner in the exact time window between the blocks being up and the roof on. Also, you would be very unlicky for your planner to be such a sod as to make an issue of it.

That said though, my Engineer did warn me that one of his clients did get caught. He drew attention to himself by having water from his site pouring out onto the road which was reported to the council. It was only when they came out to investigate this that they saw the extra size of the house.

On a similar note, I have a question myself. We built our house and used up our exempted size of an extension building on a bedroom out the back.

We also intend to build on a Sunroon to the side of the house. We decided not to do this now as we don't want to push our luck too much but we will do it in a year or two. By right, if you build on an exempted extension, how long do you have to wait before you can do it again ?

This is all wrong.!
A sun room extension to the side of your house is not an exempted development.
Having the roof on your house does not make your house complete.
You can not put the foundations of an exempted development down the same time as the main build.
An exempted extension limit can only be used once in the lifetime of that house.
Most people would not flout the planning laws. It is an offence to do so.

muffler

BnA wrote: »

As other people have said it is very grey. My Engineer (who would work fairly closely with the council) told me that in our area (Clare) once you have the roof on you are ok to go ahead with the extension. Also, it is ok to go ahead with the foundations for the extension while you are doing the main foundations for the house.

Most people however would just build away. As I did myself. You would have to be very unlucky to get caught by a visit from a planner in the exact time window between the blocks being up and the roof on. Also, you would be very unlicky for your planner to be such a sod as to make an issue of it.

That said though, my Engineer did warn me that one of his clients did get caught. He drew attention to himself by having water from his site pouring out onto the road which was reported to the council. It was only when they came out to investigate this that they saw the extra size of the house.

On a similar note, I have a question myself. We built our house and used up our exempted size of an extension building on a bedroom out the back.

We also intend to build on a Sunroon to the side of the house. We decided not to do this now as we don't want to push our luck too much but we will do it in a year or two. By right, if you build on an exempted extension, how long do you have to wait before you can do it again ?

I appreciate that you are merely sharing your experiences but you got a lot of bad advice and you dont seem to understand anything about exempted development.

I was going to delete your post but decided to leave it to illustrate where people are making mistakes.

Poor auld Uncle Tom pretty much summed up my thoughts on your post.

budgetbuilder

Thanks again everyone! I Guess, as ever, it's a case of submitting the plans, crossing everything and hoping for the best!