Is the job market starting to pick up in Ireland?

Mairead1975

Hi

I was speaking to some friends who work in recruitment and they felt that in the last 2 months there are more jobs starting to come in

Do jobseekers feel the same?

Would be interested to hear what you think

Mairead

FACEPALM

I think its hard to say as there are more people losing jobs then jobs being created

jkmanc1974

Dont really think that the market has picked up yet Mairead to be honest, 1 thing that I have noticed though is that even more agencies now seem to be advertising the same positions over and over again(eg recent jobs with Awaya/Quinn Direct etc seem to be advertised with at least 10 agencies)

Also as the other poster says, there have been a good few job cuts announced in the last month or so.....

Brgds
Johnny

gline

jkmanc1974 wrote: »

Dont really think that the market has picked up yet Mairead to be honest, 1 thing that I have noticed though is that even more agencies now seem to be advertising the same positions over and over again(eg recent jobs with Awaya/Quinn Direct etc seem to be advertised with at least 10 agencies)

Also as the other poster says, there have been a good few job cuts announced in the last month or so.....

Brgds
Johnny

Noticed the exact same same thing I have a few job alert emails setup, and it is the same 5 jobs coming up every day for one of them. i think a lot of the jobs dont exist that recruiters post up, they are just CV collecting

@OP - I suippose it really depends on the industry. in general I dont think there is more job sbeing created as opposed to the amount of people being laid off. personally I think this may last 1-2 years, but thats just a guess.

Mairead1975

Agencies do that as they have to keep the CVs coming through. Its always been an issue. There is one of the big technical recruitment agencies who had something like 300 jobs up in a certain field, when in reality there was never more than 30-40 vacancies in Ireland in this area at any time. Always ring up and confirm the vacancy is still openand is real. If the recruiter doesnt know much about the job, then there is a chance that they may not even have the job on!

Id be cautious of any company that has a job registrared with numerous agencies - and Id question if they some of the agencies even have the jobs in the first place. I worked in recruitment and I know Quinn used to only use 2-3 agencies at that time. If you want to stop it happening, never tell a recruiter where your CV is going as they will just ring up and get the job on once you have left the building. Its their job to help jobseekers and it's tough for them as well at the moment. They cant really win at the moment ....it's a really tough job they are in....jobseekers getting frustrated and they are desperately trying to get more jobs in

Eitherway, it has to be a good thing that more jobs are being created. Were more people let go last month than in April / May? Where do you find out the stats?

Cheers
Mairead

jkmanc1974

Id be cautious of any company that has a job registrared with numerous agencies - and Id question if they some of the agencies even have the jobs in the first place. I worked in recruitment and I know Quinn used to only use 2-3 agencies at that time. If you want to stop it happening, never tell a recruiter where your CV is going as they will just ring up and get the job on once you have left the building. Its their job to help jobseekers and it's tough for them as well at the moment. They cant really win at the moment ....it's a really tough job they are in....jobseekers getting frustrated and they are desperately trying to get more jobs in


Good point raised there ref the above - one question springs to mind, surely the agencies that would be advertising the jobs must have some kind of permission from the actual client? For example I know that BT have a preferred supplier list of 3/4 agencies max(Purely using Quinn as an example, I have noticed that companies who advertise in my field of expertise advertise directly, then a number of days later several agencies have the exact same job on offer?)

Brgds
Johnny

mood

I have also noticed a few recruitment agencies advertising the same job along with the potential employer. I don't notice much change in the amount of jobs going at all. The best way of knowing for sure is to look at the live register numbers.

mood

Just heard 400 job are gone in Waterford!!! So I really think things are as bad as ever if not getting worse.

Johnny Bitte

mood wrote: »

Just heard 400 job are gone in Waterford!!! So I really think things are as bad as ever if not getting worse.

And where did you hear this?


I have the auld auto email set up for most site looking to move for the past 2 years and its always the same.
The perfect job shows up, you go to the site no contact info only apply and then 3 months later the job is still there.

Rang one of the companies direct to ask about it and he said the manager was on hols and would start interviewing when he got back :eek:

It seems like most jobs on the site are fake and it s terrible that recruitment companies give people false hope in this climate.

Mairead1975

There are loads of fake jobs up on the sites. The agency I worked with were ethical and had a nightmare with its competitors on irishjobs.ie
It's up to the job sites to control it.

The more jobs an agency has up there, the more jobseekers are going to send them their CVs as they believe they are the agencies with all the jobs. Once a few agencies do it, the others are left behind without the candidates - snowballs from there. and in this day and age the agencies have to sink or swim.

It's frustrating for jobseekers, but I do think they should also be addressing the misconduct with the jobsboards as well. It's near impossible to control, but I think it's fairly obvious who's doing it.

Mairead

mood

mood wrote: »

Just heard 400 job are gone in Waterford!!! So I really think things are as bad as ever if not getting worse.

RTE News... twice.

DublinWriter

Guys - be aware that the main reason agencies harvest CVs is because some people still put the names and positions of their referees on their documents.

Agencies use these contact details for sales cold calling.

di2772

The turnover on staff at my company is increasing.
We're also noticing that its getting harder to fill vacancies too.
Things seem to be moving all right. Dont know if it will keep up though. Lets see.

mood

Any change of you telling use who the company are? PM me if you like.

Show_me_Safety

i think it is picking up too, but only in some areas and very slowly. My boyfriend just got a job a couple of weeks ago (and already been made a department supervisor!) after 6 months out of work. while where i work we are hiring and creating new positions, and more people are coming to me looking for their bank details as they just got new jobs and need them for their employer. I can only imagine how hard it is for those seeking work, but keep looking lads as something will come up- even if it doesn't seen that way now!

ToasterSparks

I'd love to know where all these vacancies are, I've even heard of someone on the radio saying he couldn't fill positions! As a recent graduate of a Business Degree and Economics Masters, I'm getting tired of not even receiving a reply when I apply or even inquire about vacancies. I understand HR might be getting inundated with query emails all the time, but I'd just love to get any kind of feedback.

It gets really frustrating when every job (even low level jobs that anyone with a head could do) requires X years of experience to apply. I know its an employers market but experience doesn't always mean competence, and spending a few weeks learning a newbie the ropes is better than hiring an experienced candidate that may not even know what to do.

- - - -

On another note, I've sure lots of construction companies are still only getting by by finishing big projects they acquired a year or two ago. I'd be wary of many of them going out of business in the next year when their current projects dry up, and the knock-on effects of that for suppliers, etc.

MysticalRain

ToasterSparks wrote: »

I'd love to know where all these vacancies are, I've even heard of someone on the radio saying he couldn't fill positions! As a recent graduate of a Business Degree and Economics Masters, I'm getting tired of not even receiving a reply when I apply or even inquire about vacancies. I understand HR might be getting inundated with query emails all the time, but I'd just love to get any kind of feedback.

I used to get frustrated about not receiving PFO responses back from job applications until I asked an employer in an interview once how many people applied for the job I was interviewing for. I was told it was 80 people. I think the sheer numbers of people just overwhelms many employers. That was back in 2004. I can't imagine how bad it is now. I'm becoming more convinced by the day that this country will be screwed for the next 20 years.

The only thing that really gets my goat up these days is when employers call you for an interview, and they never let you know if haven't gotten the job. There's no excuses for that because there is little effort involved in sending an email to the handful of people they've interviewed.

As for OP... if it's any indication, I've seen a few recent adverts for recruitment consultants in the last month or two which surely must be a positive sign.

mood

Ok. I know a lot of people apply for job now. However, employers should reply to people who have the qualifications and experience for the job in question.

Imagine 200 apply. Lets say about 25% may not be qualified for the job and 25% might not have enough experience. So there would possible be a manageable amount of rejection e-mails to send out.

gline

MysticalRain wrote: »

The only thing that really gets my goat up these days is when employers call you for an interview, and they never let you know if haven't gotten the job.

Yeh happened to me a few times, it is a terrible thing to do and wouldnt require much effort. Usually I just find out in the interview when the expected start date is and if I havent been called 1-2 days before it I call them, nothing to lose really, but its annoying to have to do that.

@ToasterSparks - I suppose they reason that if the person has done the job for x amount of years they must know what they are doing, I know it is flawed, but it does make some sense. Personally if I was an employer I'd look for education and experience if possible.

di2772

ToasterSparks wrote: »

I'd love to know where all these vacancies are, I've even heard of someone on the radio saying he couldn't fill positions! As a recent graduate of a Business Degree and Economics Masters, I'm getting tired of not even receiving a reply when I apply or even inquire about vacancies. I understand HR might be getting inundated with query emails all the time, but I'd just love to get any kind of feedback.

It gets really frustrating when every job (even low level jobs that anyone with a head could do) requires X years of experience to apply. I know its an employers market but experience doesn't always mean competence, and spending a few weeks learning a newbie the ropes is better than hiring an experienced candidate that may not even know what to do.

- - - -

On another note, I've sure lots of construction companies are still only getting by by finishing big projects they acquired a year or two ago. I'd be wary of many of them going out of business in the next year when their current projects dry up, and the knock-on effects of that for suppliers, etc.

We dont hire grads (with no experience) at all. We only hire with at least a couple of years experience under their belt AND their qualification. We may start hiring them when there is a SEVERE shortage and its worth the cost and time of taking on grads, but that day is a long way off yet.

My advice for grads is dont confine your job search to just Ireland. In Ireland grads are considered a liability at this time. Grads are a cost to a company and only pay off in the long term. And even then only some of them do.

We havent sent PFO letters in years. You'd be surprised at the amount of responses you get to PFO letters either begging or calling racism, sexism, ageism etc. Then you have to have a defense against those because some do take it further. Its just not worth the effort. If you dont get a follow up call within a couple of weeks just assume thats your PFO.

Tom Dunne

The_Goose135 wrote: »

It seems like most jobs on the site are fake and it s terrible that recruitment companies give people false hope in this climate.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: STOP BITCHING AND DO SOMETHING.

Can't put it any clearer than that. I currently have a complaint in with the Advertising Standards Authority about a particular recruiter and a fake job advert.

If people sit around all the time and just bitch and moan, nothing will change.

So please, STFU, or do something. You can make a complaint on www.asai.ie

jkmanc1974

di2772 wrote: »

We dont hire grads (with no experience) at all.
We havent sent PFO letters in years. You'd be surprised at the amount of responses you get to PFO letters either begging or calling racism, sexism, ageism etc. Then you have to have a defense against those because some do take it further. Its just not worth the effort. If you dont get a follow up call within a couple of weeks just assume thats your PFO.

Know where you are coming from to an extent, however whatever happened to the old saying "Common courtesy costs nothing"?

Think that it is bad form especially when a candidate travels from one end of the country to the other for an interview......

Brgds
Johnny

MysticalRain

jkmanc1974 wrote: »

Know where you are coming from to an extent, however whatever happened to the old saying "Common courtesy costs nothing"?

Think that it is bad form especially when a candidate travels from one end of the country to the other for an interview......

Brgds
Johnny

I would assume he's only talking about job applications, not interviews surely. If that's not the case, then it really is bad form.

gline

MysticalRain wrote: »

I would assume he's only talking about job applications, not interviews surely. If that's not the case, then it really is bad form.

I think that would depend on the company, i have been for interviews where I have never heard back from them at all. "Usually" a larger company with a HR department (or should I say properly run HR department) will already have generic emails/letters set up, so they can fire them out easily to non-successfull candidates. Where-as some smaller companies dont even have a HR department and would be less bothered in sending anything out.

MysticalRain

gline wrote: »

I think that would depend on the company, i have been for interviews where I have never heard back from them at all. "Usually" a larger company with a HR department (or should I say properly run HR department) will already have generic emails/letters set up, so they can fire them out easily to non-successfull candidates. Where-as some smaller companies dont even have a HR department and would be less bothered in sending anything out.

Yes, I think it does come down to a sense of professionalism and common decency which a lot of Irish companies tend to lack - especially the small Mickey Mouse ones. In some ways, you really are better off never hearing from those kinds of companies again.

di2772

MysticalRain wrote: »

I would assume he's only talking about job applications, not interviews surely. If that's not the case, then it really is bad form.

They'll usually ring you or your agent if you've been to an interview, but if you dont answer they wont try again.
Its completely a HR policy. Personally i hate HR depts. There is no need for them at all. Probably one of the biggest wastes of money in modern day companies. A HR manager once told me that they are overpaid to make sure everyone else is underpaid. I agree.

ToasterSparks

di2772 wrote: »

We dont hire grads (with no experience) at all. We only hire with at least a couple of years experience under their belt AND their qualification. We may start hiring them when there is a SEVERE shortage and its worth the cost and time of taking on grads, but that day is a long way off yet.

My advice for grads is dont confine your job search to just Ireland. In Ireland grads are considered a liability at this time. Grads are a cost to a company and only pay off in the long term. And even then only some of them do.

Yeah, I totally understand the concept of not wanting to dump resources into a rookie graduate with no experience, I'm just talking about relatively unskilled or low skilled jobs that don't require much to figure out needing 1/2/3 years plus experience. It gets frustrating.

Of course, the age old problem of 'no job without experience, no experience without a job' is back in force now that the recession on us. You say not to confine a job search to Ireland, but is the situation realistically any different abroad? The expense of a move abroad (with money I don't have) wouldn't be viable without a job lined up, and TBH job markets abroad are looking for loads of experience too.

Sigh. Guess I'm a little dejected by things at the moment. Unlike many other recent graduates, I've none of haughty, pride-driven notion that I am entitled to a high level job in the exact area I want. Many former classmates still expect to secure big-money, high level jobs straight away. I'm just looking for a job to earn a few quid for the moment, and maybe with some experience branch into something a little more relevant to what I studied. The market doesn't give me much hope, and I'm left twiddling my thumbs at home, hoping I spot anything in the newspapers or on the 'net.

di2772

ToasterSparks wrote: »

Yeah, I totally understand the concept of not wanting to dump resources into a rookie graduate with no experience, I'm just talking about relatively unskilled or low skilled jobs that don't require much to figure out needing 1/2/3 years plus experience. It gets frustrating.

Of course, the age old problem of 'no job without experience, no experience without a job' is back in force now that the recession on us. You say not to confine a job search to Ireland, but is the situation realistically any different abroad? The expense of a move abroad (with money I don't have) wouldn't be viable without a job lined up, and TBH job markets abroad are looking for loads of experience too.

Sigh. Guess I'm a little dejected by things at the moment. Unlike many other recent graduates, I've none of haughty, pride-driven notion that I am entitled to a high level job in the exact area I want. Many former classmates still expect to secure big-money, high level jobs straight away. I'm just looking for a job to earn a few quid for the moment, and maybe with some experience branch into something a little more relevant to what I studied. The market doesn't give me much hope, and I'm left twiddling my thumbs at home, hoping I spot anything in the newspapers or on the 'net.

I know a hell of a lot of people who went to the UK in the last year. Obviously you get the job first and then move over. The Irish economy is infinitely smaller than the UKs. Better off swimming in the bigger pond if you are having trouble eating in the small one.

gline

I suppose the worse things get the more picky companies get, because they can Im in the opposite boat, 5years experience with no qualifications They want someone with a high level of both now. It is mad the way it is getting though, I saw entry level Customer service roles looking for a degree and 1-2 years experience in the odd company here and there, thats crazy

MysticalRain

gline wrote: »

I suppose the worse things get the more picky companies get, because they can Im in the opposite boat, 5years experience with no qualifications They want someone with a high level of both now. It is mad the way it is getting though, I saw entry level Customer service roles looking for a degree and 1-2 years experience in the odd company here and there, thats crazy

The madness doesn't stop there. Some employers only want people with first-class honours or 2.1 degrees. When I worked abroad a few years ago, nobody gave a crap about degrees and most of the most the people I worked with didn't have any. I suppose there isn't really much that can be done when we live in a country that can't support the amount of people it has.

Mrs OBumble

gline wrote: »

I think that would depend on the company, i have been for interviews where I have never heard back from them at all.

I had an interview with a certain 3-star budget hotel chain that shall remain nameless, who didn't have the courtesy to call me back, even though the entire interview went really, really well. And the manager was snooty and off-hand when I rang back to check.

The recession isn't going to last forever, and when I'm in a job that involves business travel again (or even for leisure travel), I won't be staying in a T*****L**** again, any branch, any city.

Back on topic, I defintely think it's picking up a little, or at least churning a bit as people go to college: I'm seeing multiple signs in the shops etc, which we haven't seen for nearly 12 months here. In the Galway City forum, there's a "jobs wanted/offered" thread that's seen posts lately. Earlier in the year, no one was posting there 'cos if anyone saw a sign, they weren't wanting competition for the job.

di2772

Another thing that happening is that a lot of companies take advantage and use the recession as an excuse to make their staff do more hours for less pay or just cut their pay or entitlements. Or in other ways pissed their staff off, just because they could and the staff wouldnt leave.

Staff will put up with that during a recession. But when things start to pick up the people who feel hard done by will just move. This will then cause movement in the job market, creating more vacancies and costing the companies more to replace the staff that they pissed off as they leave.

It will all come back to haunt these companies. Not all companies did things like that, but i know a lot that did.

mood

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: STOP BITCHING AND DO SOMETHING.

Can't put it any clearer than that. I currently have a complaint in with the Advertising Standards Authority about a particular recruiter and a fake job advert.

If people sit around all the time and just bitch and moan, nothing will change.

So please, STFU, or do something. You can make a complaint on www.asai.ie

Good idea. Would save use all a lot of time and energy.

AARRRGH

di2772 wrote: »

Another thing that happening is that a lot of companies take advantage and use the recession as an excuse to make their staff do more hours for less pay or just cut their pay or entitlements.

Have you seen the latest sales figures and P&L accounts for those companies? I assure you business is extremely tough at the moment, and most/all of these companies are either struggling or expect to be struggling in a few months.

di2772

AARRRGH wrote: »

Have you seen the latest sales figures and P&L accounts for those companies? I assure you business is extremely tough at the moment, and most/all of these companies are either struggling or expect to be struggling in a few months.

I work for one of them full-time.
I consult for a couple of others part-time.
I have good friends in similar positions.
I know what the relevant figures are.

Anyway it doesnt really matter what the figures are. You dont look after your staff, you lose them as soon as the economy picks up. Then you have to budget for bedding in time for replacements. There is more to a recession than just saving money.

dsmythy

From my pre-configured searches on various job sites i've definitely noticed a slight increase in jobs becoming available. Barring a double dip recession i'd say mid 2010 onwards it will become more noticeable.

mood

Maybe but I have seen one company advertise a particular job and four recruitment agencies advertising the same job for the company (the job spec was very specific). So at a glance it may look like five different jobs but in fact it is only one!

AARRRGH

di2772 wrote: »

Anyway it doesnt really matter what the figures are.

Of course it does. I used to be a financial controller for a large recruitment business. Most non finance people don't realise how precarious doing business is.

Sales are going to be way down at the moment, and anyone who is any good at their finance job will be planning for the future. That means making cuts now to save the business.

I know pay cuts and redundancies are awful, but businesses need to deal with future problems today.

It's financially naive to think cutbacks are about screwing the employee.

Mairead1975

Really agree on the " not hearing back on a job youve interviewed" for - reflects very bad on an organisation.

Think you always need to follow up on applications. Im sure you'll just get a voicemail, but at least they'll remember you.

They are absolutely inundated - hundreds of CVs. They are probably interviewing lots of people too so imagine they are swamped!

di2772

AARRRGH wrote: »

Of course it does. I used to be a financial controller for a large recruitment business. Most non finance people don't realise how precarious doing business is.

Sales are going to be way down at the moment, and anyone who is any good at their finance job will be planning for the future. That means making cuts now to save the business.

I know pay cuts and redundancies are awful, but businesses need to deal with future problems today.

It's financially naive to think cutbacks are about screwing the employee.

Good thing i m a finance person then and know first hand that companies are cutting wages who dont actually need to.

AARRRGH

di2772 wrote: »

Good thing i m a finance person then and know first hand that companies are cutting wages who dont actually need to.

Seriously now, unless you've seen the very private financial records of the companies who are "cutting wages who dont actually need to", then you are only speculating.

Don't underestimate how difficult the current recession is. Even if a company appears to be doing "business as usual", it's possible their parent company who has been funding their losses for years has now tightened the purse strings.

Or it's possible their FC has predicted tough months down the road.

Or it's possible they are in trouble already.

I know there are scummy employers out there, but they are the minority, not the majority.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.

To answer the OP's question: no, things are getting worse.

di2772

AARRRGH wrote: »

Seriously now, unless you've seen the very private financial records of the companies who are "cutting wages who dont actually need to", then you are only speculating.

Don't underestimate how difficult the current recession is. Even if a company appears to be doing "business as usual", it's possible their parent company who has been funding their losses for years has now tightened the purse strings.

Or it's possible their FC has predicted tough months down the road.

Or it's possible they are in trouble already.

I know there are scummy employers out there, but they are the minority, not the majority.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.

To answer the OP's question: no, things are getting worse.

Yes, ive seen them. I helped compile them.
And to answer the OPs question. Things are definitely getting better.

AARRRGH

di2772 wrote: »

Yes, ive seen them. I helped compile them.

You helped compile various company's financial records, including their revenue predictions? Right.

Even an auditor doesn't see all that stuff.

ToasterSparks

Look, I don't mean to sound harsh, but posters arguing over whether or not wage cuts/job cuts are financially necessary or not is not really helping. The last few posts are simply different posters with differing opinions, and be they right or wrong, you are diverting away from the focus of the thread with petty fighting.

The thread started well, and I'd rather it didn't descend into a difference of opinion, but rather that it focuses on the original question - Is the job market starting to pick up in Ireland?

AARRRGH

Thanks Mammy.

ToasterSparks wrote: »

Is the job market starting to pick up in Ireland?

As someone who works somewhat in recruitment and who has an interest in current affairs, I can tell you it's getting worse.

I would have a fairly pessimistic view of Ireland for the foreseeable future (years, not months).

If you think about it logically, how could things possibly be getting better? We are just at the start of a very long and painful recession.

Wuggectumondo

My brother and sister said to sign up with a certain office workers recruitment agency, because about 3 years ago they used to get temping work with them all of the time (even though they had no previous experience). When I signed up with them last October, I canceled their email notifications because I was getting the same jobs sent to me every few days, but nobody calling me for an interview.

When I sent them an email, they said that unfortunately I don't have enough experience for their jobs.

I went on their website there and am shocked at how little jobs they have now- it's just a few telesales etc. They've prob gone out of business with the tiny amount of companies contacting them!

gline

On the fas website , there has been roughly the same amount of jobs for the past few months, i remember about 5 years ago there being a lot more like 3x times more. Also a few of the jobs there are being advertised elsewhre so its hard to know how many are actually real job adverts. Is thereanywhere you can get up-to-date live register figures, like monthly?

Rex Manning

Would it be reasonable to expect more jobs to crop up in january - start of the new tax year and companies would have new budgets available to them for the coming year?

AARRRGH

Rex Manning wrote: »

Would it be reasonable to expect more jobs to crop up in january - start of the new tax year and companies would have new budgets available to them for the coming year?

Yeah, January is the strongest month of the year for recruitment. December is the quietest.

mood

Depends on the sector. The area I work in August an January are the quietest months of the year.

AARRRGH

mood wrote: »

Depends on the sector. The area I work in August an January are the quietest months of the year.

In general though, January is about twice as busy as any other month.